{"count":1608389,"next":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=json&page=153101","previous":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=json&page=153099","results":[{"id":1549192,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1549192/?format=json","text_counter":1118,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Osotsi","speaker_title":"","speaker":{"id":13588,"legal_name":"Osotsi Godfrey Otieno","slug":"osotsi-godfrey-otieno"},"content":"Talking about counties, because this Statutory Instrument Act also affects counties, we have realized that counties have come up with the regulation pursuant to a national legislation. They have developed a regulation pursuant to national legislation. These regulations are unconstitutional. One example is the Public Finance Management (PFM) Act. The PFM Act clearly stipulates that the regulations will be made by the Cabinet Secretary for National Treasury and not the County Executive Committee Member (CECM) for Finance and Economic Planning. However, the counties have developed regulations, especially to manage public funds in the county, pursuant to PFM regulations. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in my Committee, we have directed that these regulations be annulled or repealed because they are unconstitutional. The regulations made in county should be made pursuant to the county legislation and not national legislation. Every committee must be on the lookout for this problem, so that counties are directed to make regulations pursuant to the county legislation and not national legislation. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to end by saying that this amendment is timely, and it will speed up the implementation of the various Acts of Parliament that we pass in this House. In fact, the penalty should be enhanced. Every time we put a penalty or fine, we should always put an option for a jail term. I say this because we have a lot of violations of the law. In our counties, we have a big problem because there is a clear violation of the law around accountability. People want to come to the Senate and behave as if they do not understand the law. For example, the issue of the audit process requires that counties provide information and documents to the Office of the Auditor-General (OAG) during the audit process, but most counties do not do that. The OAG generates queries, issues audit certificate for the report, but when they appear before our committees that is when, all of a sudden, you see them coming with bundles and files of documents before us."},{"id":1549193,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1549193/?format=json","text_counter":1119,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Osotsi","speaker_title":"","speaker":{"id":13588,"legal_name":"Osotsi Godfrey Otieno","slug":"osotsi-godfrey-otieno"},"content":"The law is very clear. Under the Public Audit Act, failure to provide information during the audit can result in two to three penalties. One is imprisonment for three years, two, a fine of Kshs5 million, or both. It is important that we start exercising and implementing these provisions in law to deter people who do not take the audit process very seriously or who deliberately deny documents to the OAG, and then sometimes resurface with fake documents, which they present before us to say it is evidence on a particular audit matter."},{"id":1549194,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1549194/?format=json","text_counter":1120,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Osotsi","speaker_title":"","speaker":{"id":13588,"legal_name":"Osotsi Godfrey Otieno","slug":"osotsi-godfrey-otieno"},"content":"I support this Bill and encourage other Members of this House to support the Bill as well."},{"id":1549195,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1549195/?format=json","text_counter":1121,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Osotsi","speaker_title":"","speaker":{"id":13588,"legal_name":"Osotsi Godfrey Otieno","slug":"osotsi-godfrey-otieno"},"content":"I support."},{"id":1549196,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1549196/?format=json","text_counter":1122,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Hon. Kingi","speaker_title":"The Speaker","speaker":null,"content":" Sen. Mungatana."},{"id":1549197,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1549197/?format=json","text_counter":1123,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Mungatana, MGH","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to also make my comments. First, I support this Bill. In 2013, through the Statutory Instruments Act No.23 of 2013, Hon. Amina Abdalla, then Nominated Member of Parliament (MP), brought this law before the House. Why was Parliament doing that? It was doing this because up to then, the"},{"id":1549198,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1549198/?format=json","text_counter":1124,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Mungatana, MGH","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."},{"id":1549199,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1549199/?format=json","text_counter":1125,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Mungatana, MGH","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"Government of Kenya used to depend on the 1946 British Statutory Instruments Act, which used to be the standard for how we would implement our delegated legislation."},{"id":1549200,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1549200/?format=json","text_counter":1126,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Mungatana, MGH","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"Kenyans listening to me, the law under the Constitution makes only Parliaments or the assemblies of the people, in this case the Senate and the National Assembly, and at the county level, the county assemblies, as the only bodies that are given power to make law. However, it is not possible to make a law on all the details. That is why we, as the Senate, the National Assembly and the county assemblies, delegate these responsibilities to Ministers, so that they can sit with their technical committees and say that they need certain regulations, so that they can make the law functional. For example, we may pass a law here that says over speeding is an offence under the Traffic Act, but then it will need the relevant Cabinet Secretary to sit with the National Transport and Safety Authority (NTSA) to say between which areas it is safe to, say, 50 kilometres per hour as the speed limit, and between which areas it is safe to drive at the speed of 120 kilometres per hour. Those kinds of details are not available before the House or the houses making law. That is why we delegate this power to the regulation-making authorities like Cabinet Secretaries and other authorities. However, we have had serious abuse of this delegated power. For the many legislations that we have passed here, we have said in the end that this law will come into effect when the Cabinet Secretary signs this and that, or when they bring the enabling regulations and these regulations are passed. Then, you find that a very serious piece of legislation is not made actionable because the Cabinet Secretary forgets about that law. The Senate or the National Assembly has originated the law and then it has passed through the processes, and then it has gone to the last process where the President has assented and it has become law. Then a Cabinet Secretary who is in charge of that department sees that law, refuses to put those regulations and the law becomes non- functional."},{"id":1549201,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1549201/?format=json","text_counter":1127,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Mungatana, MGH","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"Many people and colleagues here have raised this particular issue. When we were growing up under the old Constitution, there were fundamental rights and freedoms. In those fundamental rights, the Chief Justice (CJ) of the Republic of Kenya was required to write regulations on how to approach the High Court, so that you can enforce your fundamental rights. However, CJ after CJ refused to write any regulations. It is only after we got the new Constitution and under the CJ Willy Mutunga that regulations for the enforcement of fundamental rights were enacted."}]}