{"count":1608389,"next":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=json&page=153246","previous":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=json&page=153244","results":[{"id":1550642,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1550642/?format=json","text_counter":573,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Seme, ODM","speaker_title":"Hon. (Dr) James Nyikal","speaker":null,"content":"Discussions about the Division of Revenue Bill are usually the same every year. The only thing left is for the Senate to disagree with the Bill. We will then form a Mediation Committee to iron out our differences. I am actually waiting for that to happen. If we have the same discussions and disagreements with the Senate every year, there is something wrong. We need to address that. The Budget Policy Statement (BPS) does not include what the counties need. It is, to a large extent, based on what the national Government needs. The BPS is very detailed and is referred to the committees. With regard to the allocations to the counties, we wait for what the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) will bring us. I will suggest to the Chairperson of the Budget and Appropriations Committee that we should try to solve this problem as a country. Hon. Atandi, I suggest that we try as much as possible to assess the needs of the counties when we are making the Budget. The Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) and the Intergovernmental Budget and Economic Council (IBEC) should, at that point, look at and inform us before we come up with the Budget Policy Statement (BPS). They should tell us the needs of the county governments. This can be based on two things that have been discussed here. Firstly, it is the costing of the functions. We talk about it, but we have never done it. There was an attempt in 2013, but it was not done because the Transition Authority that was responsible for it did not complete it. It is still an argument. We have never costed the functions that were devolved to the counties. Secondly, this cost will change every year. If we are using something that was done in 2013 and it was not done properly, and some functions were not costed, this is where our problem is. I have a suggestion that the new Budget and Appropriations Committee can take up. Even if we need to restructure or fund CRA and IBEC, they should make an effort to cost the functions of the county governments. Once they do this, we should cost them regularly. If not, before we make the Budget every year, CRA, IBEC and the counties should tell us their needs. We may not meet them just like we do with the national Government requirements. Ministries, Departments and Agencies (MDAs) present what they need, but we cannot meet all those requests. Therefore, we have a ceiling. We should apply the same principle here. If the Budget and Appropriations Committees take this up, we will stop this argument that we have every year. There is also the issue of the Equalisation Fund. If you look at the schedule, it is information that is placed there, but it does not contribute to the calculations at all. The new Budget and Appropriations Committee, under the new Chairman, can actually help us address this. Something should be done about the Equalisation Fund. It comes with a percentage of 7.8, and then there is a rise of 2.7. If there is such a huge rise, then are we really serious about it? The parts of the country entitled to it have been complaining since it started. If it has never been used satisfactorily, we have to look at it. If you cost the functions and estimate the needs of the counties each year, we may not even need the Equalisation Fund. The counties that need it will be a clear indication that their needs are high. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."},{"id":1550643,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1550643/?format=json","text_counter":574,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Seme, ODM","speaker_title":"Hon. (Dr) James Nyikal","speaker":null,"content":"We do not allocate MDAs the same amount of money or use a general formula because their needs are totally different. We must also accept that counties have different needs. Therefore, we should conduct a proper costing of functions and an estimation of counties’ needs every year. This should be part of our Budget Policy Statement to guide the division of revenue. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker."},{"id":1550644,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1550644/?format=json","text_counter":575,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Hon. Peter Kaluma","speaker_title":"The Temporary Speaker","speaker":{"id":1565,"legal_name":"George Peter Opondo Kaluma","slug":"george-peter-opondo-kaluma"},"content":" Hon. Keynan, do you want to follow Hon. Irene Mayaka or go first? On account of rank, you will be followed by Hon. Irene Mayaka. She will be followed by Hon. Mwenje. Let the Members be given the microphone in that order."},{"id":1550645,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1550645/?format=json","text_counter":576,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Eldas, JP","speaker_title":"Hon. Adan Keynan","speaker":{"id":41,"legal_name":"Adan Wehliye Keynan","slug":"adan-keynan"},"content":" Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. The Division of Revenue Bill 2025 has come at a time— I am sure most Members are not aware— when the Supreme Court – and I want the Chairman to listen – made a decision a few days ago on the initiation, origination and passage of any money-related Bill. And I want to thank you; I know you are one of the lawyers who are involved. Therefore, the hullabaloo that we used to have with the Senate is no more. I am sure that is news to many of us here. This is purely within the mandate and preserve of the National Assembly. Chairman,I am sure you must have heard that. We support the existence of our two Houses, the Senate and the National Assembly, but I am sure you will have an easy time right now because of that determination made by the Supreme Court – I think that was Petition No. 17 of 2021. I thank the Supreme Court for finally putting this to rest so that Members of the National Assembly can function in line with their mandate of the budget-making process. Secondly, this Bill has two aspects… However, before I go to that level, I want to congratulate the Member for Alego Usonga Constituency. To the best of my recollection, the constituency has produced two great minds and many others. Do you remember the late Hon. Castro Peter Oloo Aringo? Right now, we have my friend, Hon. Samuel Atandi Onunga. Of course, I am not in any way demeaning all the others who are there, but I am told that he is the only one after Castro Aringo who has done three terms. Congratulations. He is our Chairman. When I was first elected, the budget-making process used to be purely the preserve of the Executive. I was appointed to this very Committee of Finance in 1998 with Mzee Oburu Odinga, the late Michuki, the late Njenga Karume, Mzee Adan Mohamed Noor, and the former Member of Parliament, Simon Mkalla, who was our Chairman. What we used to do then is very different from what is happening right now. It means that the role of a Member of Parliament has been completely redefined. I want us to deal with the politics of the Division of Revenue Bill and the actual allocation of resources. Luckily, some of us have been part and parcel of the making and framing of the current Constitution, and we have the notes. What we have is an economic devolution and not a confederation. It is not a federal system. There is need to look at our governance structure so that those individuals now tasked with implementing this are seized of what we intended to have in the different provisions of the current Constitution, because I see a bit of confusion. As long as we have that confusion, it will be difficult to realise the gains of the current Constitution as intended by the framers. Once upon a time, Kenya was an economic hub. Today, we have been barely reduced to a struggling nation. I just ask myself; how about one morning, what if the managers, particularly the Executive, decide to mint paper money? Luckily, since Independence, those who have been at the helm of the Kenyan Government are people who have a vested interest in business. What if you get a popular, streetwise leader? They will print money because they will not understand the essence of having money. They just need to ask the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) if they can have loads of Ksh1,000 notes, like what the late Idi Amin did. That would bring in inflation, cause devaluation of the Kenyan currency, contribute to the erasure of the purchasing power of the people, and ultimately lead to the collapse of the economy. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."},{"id":1550646,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1550646/?format=json","text_counter":577,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Eldas, JP","speaker_title":"Hon. Adan Keynan","speaker":{"id":41,"legal_name":"Adan Wehliye Keynan","slug":"adan-keynan"},"content":"Therefore, as we politick on this, all of us must be held accountable in line with the provisions of the Constitution. We have different entities, and there is a reason we decided to give jurisdictional independence to the offices of the Controller of Budget, the Auditor-General, and many other institutions. This is simply because we wanted them to function outside the ambit of the Executive. There is a reason why we have so many constitutional commissions under Chapter 15 of the Constitution. Again, I ask myself; is it not time that we did a proper evaluation of the costings, implementation, and effectiveness of the different aspects of the current Constitution? We should do this so that we get a constitution that will give us a lean, effective, efficient, and transparent governance system. This is one thing that Kenyans are yearning for. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I come from a region that has been stigmatised and completely marginalised. During the countdown to the current Constitution, I was looking forward to a constitution that would make me appreciate being a Kenyan citizen. You also understand the provisions of Sessional Paper No.10 of 1965, which basically rendered the people of the entire pastoralist-dominated regions unworthy of being part and parcel of the productive parts of the Republic of Kenya. I thought this Constitution would cure that. We thought the cure was through devolution and the Equalization Fund. Unfortunately, both are not working. What will my role be – as a person who has seen the governance structures under Mzee Moi's Government, Mzee Kibaki’s first Government, Nusu-Mkate under Mzee Kibaki and Hon. Raila, Uhuru's Government and the handshake government, and the current Government? When I put all these on a scale, I am still floating. Today, I pride myself on being the father of Parliament. I want the same benefits to trickle down to the people I represent. Luckily, I have represented two constituencies: Wajir West and Eldas. Sometimes, I like the courage of the Deputy Leader of the Majority Party. The Equalization Fund is not working. Hon. Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee, let us call a spade a spade. The Equalisation Fund is not working because, from the beginning, it has been abused through politics, personal accreditation, greed and selfishness. Today, nothing positive or practical can be attributed to the Equalization Fund in the areas we come from. We will find out very soon that devolution has been convoluted. I have just got my notes on that provision in Article 204 of the 2010 Constitution. It has been abused through litigations, misdirection and the budgetary hoarding. By the grace of God, the sunset period is coming, and yet there is nothing to account for. I want you to guide us under the able leadership of Hon. Atandi so that we either regain what we have lost or forget about it so that it is not attributed to us. It will go down in history that once upon a time, we were in Parliament, and for 20 years, we had the Equalisation Fund, but equalisation was not there. Why would I be part of that bad history to the next generation?"},{"id":1550647,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1550647/?format=json","text_counter":578,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Eldas, JP","speaker_title":"Hon. Adan Keynan","speaker":{"id":41,"legal_name":"Adan Wehliye Keynan","slug":"adan-keynan"},"content":"Hon. Temporary Speaker, the other bit is the devolved functions and costings. We need to hold the governors to account. That does not mean we hate our governors. We want to help them in improving their governance platform. They are not paying pending bills. Each governor says I need to protect my jurisdiction. Everybody has become a tenderpreneur, pending bill- preneur and cartel-preneur when we all are supposed to work for the well-being of the Republic of Kenya. Now that we have Hon. Atandi, who comes from a region that has been disadvantaged since Independence, I hope and pray that he will have a holistic view of the country so that the image of the haves and have-nots is reduced once and for all. We will have a society that appreciates equity, equality, preponderance and value. One more minute, Hon. Temporary Speaker."},{"id":1550648,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1550648/?format=json","text_counter":579,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Hon. Peter Kaluma","speaker_title":"The Temporary Speaker","speaker":{"id":1565,"legal_name":"George Peter Opondo Kaluma","slug":"george-peter-opondo-kaluma"},"content":" All right."},{"id":1550649,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1550649/?format=json","text_counter":580,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Eldas, JP","speaker_title":"Hon. Adan Keynan","speaker":{"id":41,"legal_name":"Adan Wehliye Keynan","slug":"adan-keynan"},"content":" I say this because a few years ago, it was unimaginable to have somebody from the Lakeside as the chairman of an important committee. It has The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."},{"id":1550650,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1550650/?format=json","text_counter":581,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Eldas, JP","speaker_title":"Hon. Adan Keynan","speaker":{"id":41,"legal_name":"Adan Wehliye Keynan","slug":"adan-keynan"},"content":"happened by the grace of God. The change must be seen, not only in Alego Usonga, but in every part of the Republic of Kenya."},{"id":1550651,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1550651/?format=json","text_counter":582,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Hon. Peter Kaluma","speaker_title":"The Temporary Speaker","speaker":{"id":1565,"legal_name":"George Peter Opondo Kaluma","slug":"george-peter-opondo-kaluma"},"content":" Give him the one minute because of rank. I do not want problems with a ranking member."}]}