{"count":1608389,"next":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=json&page=157393","previous":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=json&page=157391","results":[{"id":1592112,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1592112/?format=json","text_counter":469,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Kitui Central, WDM","speaker_title":"Hon. (Dr) Makali Mulu","speaker":null,"content":"This House has made such important recommendations but they are never implemented. Can you help us get these recommendations implemented? For sure, if they are implemented, we will never talk about borrowing. We will have enough money in this country to do our things. As Hon. Shurie said, bad financial manners are taking us in the wrong direction. Let us work as a team and agree that whatever recommendations we make as a House, we implement them. If we do that, it will be good for this country. Hon. Deputy Speaker, with those many remarks, I submit and thank you for the additional two minutes to enable me complete making my submission. Thank you so much."},{"id":1592113,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1592113/?format=json","text_counter":470,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Hon. Deputy Speaker","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"Member for Tharaka-Nithi."},{"id":1592114,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1592114/?format=json","text_counter":471,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Tharaka, UDA","speaker_title":"Hon. George Murugara","speaker":null,"content":" Thank you very much, Hon. Deputy Speaker. Tharaka is my constituency, and Tharaka-Nithi is my County although both names are suitable, especially with my aspirations now to move to Tharaka-Nithi County. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."},{"id":1592115,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1592115/?format=json","text_counter":472,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Tharaka, UDA","speaker_title":"Hon. George Murugara","speaker":null,"content":"Allow me to support this Report by the Select Committee on Public Debt and Privatisation, chaired by Hon. Shurie. They have done a good job. We need such reports from time to time so that we know the position of the country when it comes to public debt. We know very well that quite often we are crippled by public debt. Sometimes we are told that the country is on the verge of receivership. That is, we are not able to pay our debts, and our lenders may make a run on us, as a result of which we would possibly go under, just like the other countries have. There is a belief that public debt is now going down, and that means there may be money that we would have used for public debt, which will now be used for development. We are currently in the process of preparing the Budget, and it is a concern to everyone that most of our revenue is allocated to recurrent expenses. That recurrent expense includes the Consolidated Fund Services, which is for repayment of our debts, whether international or local, and payment of other recurrent expenses. In fact, we now need to assess our current financial situation, including our available funds and our expenditures, both recurring and for debt repayment. As a matter of fact, we need to look at how much we have and how much we must spend both on recurrent expenditure and debt repayment because Kenyans are anxious since they do not see the development they ought to see. In spite of the observations made by experts like Hon. Makali Mulu, who noted that we may be buying or trading with our own money, visible development is reaching the rural constituencies. We must unlock the stalled projects and roads that have caused anxiety among our constituents. Many of them were promised tarmac roads whose construction began but later stalled. At the very least, we are now unlocking part of this money by whatever means to ensure that contractors return to the sites and we realise the roads we were promised or which we, as leaders, promised ourselves. Interest rates are a concern. Unfortunately, money is expensive and the cost of borrowing is interest. As Hon. Shurie and his Committee make recommendations on the broader issues, I urge them to look at the interest rates and advise on the most feasible ways of borrowing in less expensive ways, either through grants or by leveraging public-private partnerships (PPPs) to avoid incurring unsustainable interest, which is becoming increasingly worrisome. The Treaty Making and Ratification (Amendment) Bill is before this House. It will ensure that this House is involved in all agreements from inception to conclusion, particularly loan agreements or borrowing above Ksh1 billion. This is a good law because it will ensure that this House monitors how we borrow. These are good recommendations. They should not become dead recommendations but recommendations that help our economy as it grows. With those few remarks, I support the Motion for adoption of the Report."},{"id":1592116,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1592116/?format=json","text_counter":473,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Hon. Deputy Speaker","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"Member for Funyula."},{"id":1592117,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1592117/?format=json","text_counter":474,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Funyula, ODM","speaker_title":"Hon. (Dr) Ojiambo Oundo","speaker":null,"content":" Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this Motion. I also rise to support the Report of the Select Committee on Public Debt and Privatisation on the Consolidated Fund Services expenditures for the Estimates for Financial Year 2025/2026. I have perused the Report and I admit that the Committee was bold enough to tell it as it is. The Report was checked and edited to reflect the reality of the matter. One fact that they have made very clear even though they tried to put it softly or to hide the truth, is that public debt has been rising unabated. Graphs plotted by various economic institutions denote a positive trend. Public debt has been rising despite what we were told by the government during the campaign period – that, it would reduce. I would like Kenyans to know that public debt is currently estimated to stand at Ksh11.36 trillion as of 31st March 2025. There has been unending debate about the odious debt. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."},{"id":1592118,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1592118/?format=json","text_counter":475,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Funyula, ODM","speaker_title":"Hon. (Dr) Ojiambo Oundo","speaker":null,"content":"Nobody knows where it is, who procured it and what it was used to cover. There is a growing feeling which must be resolved or addressed by the new Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury and Economic Planning. It is alleged that the actual stock of debt in Kenya is unknown. We are always being given estimates. The Report has highlighted many facts which we already know, but many have probably been afraid of picking them out. The last sentence of paragraph 12 of the Report states that the interest has increased tremendously compared to the previous years. However, the most serious statement that every Kenyan must be aware of is that this elevated burden not only heightens interest rate risks but also crowds out essential government investments and inflates the cost of financing the fiscal deficit. They have told us that the economy is doing well but the reality on the ground is different. Secondly, the Report clearly states that there is no relief in the foreseeable future. Paragraph 13 continuously highlights the challenges facing the economy. It clearly states that the interest payment as a share of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is expected to increase from 3.2 per cent in 2015 to about 5.7 per cent, while development expenditure will decline from 7.2 per cent to 3.5 per cent. This inverse trend signals a structural crowding-out effect where escalating public debt obligations are displacing capital investments in infrastructure, education and other development-enabling sectors. The opportunity cost is stark. Resources that could stimulate economic transformation and improve welfare are increasingly diverted towards debt servicing of past borrowing. We cannot tell it more than we have done. The truth of the matter is that we are not doing well. The earlier we accept it and reflect on it, the better. The Committee must continuously be bold enough to tell it all and avoid the sugar-coated rhetoric that we have been fed all over. As I conclude, the Deputy Chief Whip of the Minority Party is in government and should stop lamenting and get the government to work."},{"id":1592119,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1592119/?format=json","text_counter":476,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Hon. Deputy Speaker","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"Hon. Aden Daudi."},{"id":1592120,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1592120/?format=json","text_counter":477,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Wajir East, JP","speaker_title":"Hon. Aden Mohammed","speaker":null,"content":" Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I also rise to support this Report. I am a Member of the Committee that prepared the Report. A lot has been said about the Report by other speakers, but I would like to highlight one thing. This House passed a debt strategy mix of 75 per cent domestic borrowing and 25 per cent foreign borrowing in our Medium Term Debt Strategy (MTDS). The problem with our budgets and getting money from the Consolidated Fund Services is that tax collection is not timely. We always have a problem with our tax collection and, therefore, we use domestic borrowing to buttress our tax collections. In its Report, the Committee is urging the National Treasury and the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) to front-load domestic borrowing, so that our cash flow does not become a problem. Many ministries and departments are used to a lack of cash flow or Exchequer releases from the National Treasury. We lack timely Exchequer releases because our cash flows do not come at the time when ministries and departments need them. The second issue is securitisation. This Report mentions that the national government is using a new “animal” called securitisation, which means borrowing upfront using expected revenues. An example of securitisation that this country has done so far without parliamentary approval is that of the Road Maintenance Levy Fund (RMLF) of Ksh7 by the Kenya Roads Board (KRB) to pay pending bills. This kind of borrowing brings contingent liability. We borrow for 10 to 15 years on monies that we think will come from our RMLF. As a country, we are going green. Our President is the Chairperson of the Committee of African Heads of State and Government on Climate Change (CAHOSCC). We are encouraging our vehicles to be electric or to go green. Yet we are borrowing on monies thinking that we will be using Ksh7 The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."},{"id":1592121,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1592121/?format=json","text_counter":478,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Wajir East, JP","speaker_title":"Hon. Aden Mohammed","speaker":null,"content":"per litre of fossil fuel. By borrowing, we are creating a debt that will be borne by the next generation. We are borrowing that money to repay pending bills, not for development. Therefore, I urge this House to be very aware of the issue of securitisation. The Public Debt and Privatisation Committee will bring more reports on this issue. The House should at least come up with a policy on intergenerational borrowing. We are borrowing now and loading it to the generations to come. Finally, I would like to comment on the issue of TSA. We borrow money through domestic borrowing. All the MDAs keep their money in commercial banks. That very money from the public is being used by banks to buy bonds, from which they earn interest. Because of that, this Committee has recommended that we embrace the TSA system. This is not the first time we are recommending it. We recommended it last year and the year before. It is time that Parliament, through the Committee on Implementation, became serious and forced the National Treasury to adopt TSA idea. Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker."}]}