{"count":1608389,"next":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=json&page=159570","previous":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=json&page=159568","results":[{"id":1613882,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613882/?format=json","text_counter":301,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Mungatana, MGH","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"May I be protected?"},{"id":1613883,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613883/?format=json","text_counter":302,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Mumma","speaker_title":"The Temporary Speaker","speaker":null,"content":" Order, Senators."},{"id":1613884,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613884/?format=json","text_counter":303,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Mungatana, MGH","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"Unfortunately, these agreements that we made in the"},{"id":1613885,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613885/?format=json","text_counter":304,"type":"scene","speaker_name":"","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"Kamukunji"},{"id":1613886,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613886/?format=json","text_counter":305,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Mungatana, MGH","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"seem to have disappeared or dissipated somewhere along the way."},{"id":1613887,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613887/?format=json","text_counter":306,"type":"scene","speaker_name":"","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"(Loud consultations)"},{"id":1613888,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613888/?format=json","text_counter":307,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Mumma","speaker_title":"The Temporary Speaker","speaker":null,"content":" Sen. Omogeni and your team, you are actually too loud."},{"id":1613889,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613889/?format=json","text_counter":308,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Mungatana, MGH","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"Madam Temporary Speaker, we agreed as a principle that we are going to make sure that no county loses any money. In that Kamukunji, we also agreed that, okay, there are 11 counties which were read out to us and let us add Kshs2 billion, so that we can support them. That figure of Kshs2 billion figure was agreed upon in the same Kamukunji because we were talking there. Some people were saying Kshs1 billion, some were saying Kshs3 billion and some were saying let us then put it at Kshs2 billion. It was an arbitrary figure that was agreed upon. We left there knowing that we have basically come to an agreement. We also agreed that the Chairperson, Sen. Ali Roba, will come and move this Motion on the Floor of the House and that if anybody has a better idea, then they will do like what Sen. Ali Roba did. Sen. Ali Roba brought in a simulation whereby you can see from county number one to county number 47 what exactly we are getting and which amounts, how much each county is getting. I personally felt and very strongly so, that we must support. Everybody must gain. As a principle, we must support the smaller counties. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."},{"id":1613890,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613890/?format=json","text_counter":309,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Mungatana, MGH","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"According to our custom you do not argue with your younger brother. If you are fighting over land and you are older, it is better for you to leave that piece of land and go and find another piece of land; buy it, but you do not fight with your younger brother. In fact, if your brother visits you in Nairobi or in your house, he has the laxity or the latitude to sleep in your house if he is so inclined. His wife, his family, can sleep in your house. However, I cannot go to my younger brother's house and sleep there. My wife and children can sleep, but I cannot sleep there. This informs the principle that we must take care of our younger brothers. It is African, it is what it is. We agree, absolutely and it is coming from a deep conviction that we must carry everybody together. Having left that Kamukunji knowing that we are coming to move a Motion, and there was an amendment that was going to be brought at Kshs2 billion, then, in fact there was no mention of Kshs4 billion. At the maximum, it was Kshs3 billion and the minimum was Kshs1 billion and we agreed on Kshs2 billion. When we were leaving, I was very happy because I was sure we had agreed on something. So, it came as a shock to me when an amendment was moved. Now we are talking about Kshs4.6 billion. More than twice what we had agreed on. No basis has been made for that. Very good arguments have been made here by Sen. Wambua that number one, we did the 0.387 factor, which equalized all of us. Number two, the 35 per cent share, we also equalized. Number three, we were putting Kshs2 billion for our brothers. I was listening very carefully and the argument is our brothers representing the 11 counties were going to get at least three times in terms of accommodation. Madam Temporary Speaker, then today, I see an amendment Motion that says we will get more than twice what we had agreed. The correct thing they should have done is to call for a fresh Kamukunji. They should have brought simulations here to show us that what they are saying, first of all, will not reduce on what we are all supposed to get and secondly, they are not taking advantage of the fact that we agreed quickly with them. My take is that they are pushing their luck too much. It is like what I said the other day. When you are swimming in the sea and you get a misfortune, one of the rocks cuts you a little bit and blood starts leaking, all the carnivorous sea creatures will come for you because there is blood. They will have smelled blood and they will not stop until they finish with you. Madam Temporary Speaker, I wonder why there is this kind of behaviour? Why not be content? We said that we should start with this little bit. In fact, there was no harm in that agreement. I have tried to listen to Sen. Osotsi in order to see if he can move me from where I am. I have tried to listen to Sen. Omogeni who moved the amendment and Sen. Kisang’ who seconded the amendment. I am trying to see what it is that would justify that an informal agreement of Kshs2 billion reserved for them goes more than twice. Unfortunately, I have not been convinced. That money is Kshs181 million going to them, which the 37 counties will not get. As the debates are going on, it is becoming clear that some of the so-called small counties are raising revenues of over a billion shillings. We were given an example of Laikipia County. I know as we continue with this debate, more things will come out like the question and the reasoning behind why all the counties should get Kshs181 million. Why The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."},{"id":1613891,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1613891/?format=json","text_counter":310,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Mungatana, MGH","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"can we not develop another micro formula that justifies another county getting Kshs200 million and another one getting Kshs100 million. People are going to shift positions. We had agreed that we were not going to disturb the formula, but now the issue of financial responsibility is coming. People are now saying; no let us tweak the poverty index by two percent or 2.5 percent. Madam Temporary Speaker, the whole thing is going to open up. Why, because, people are not listening? When you have a deal, take it first and hold it. You are not going to convince 37 counties to give you Kshs4 billion and we had agreed on Kshs2 billion. It is going to be very difficult and then more things are going to come up. One of the speakers is even saying that we stand down this Motion and wait for mediation and DORA to be confirmed, we wait for everything. We had a deal. The deal was on the table and we were going to confirm it. We are going to vote for it with clean hearts. It is now going to debate. It is opening up so many fronts. Madam Temporary Speaker, I plead with my colleagues; my prayer is that you step down this push. Allow people to accommodate what they had taken. They had agreed Kshs181 million for each one of you. They were not questioning many things. They were just saying; we are accommodating on principle. Step down on this. Let us not open all these fronts. Let us agree that we are going to reserve that Kshs2 billion. People are now talking about ring-fencing. This is because, you are lengthening this thing. You get a deal, run away with it. I am begging my colleagues who are in this 11. People are even saying that we go for caucus. Someone else has said they are going to add their county, so that they are 12. When will it end? Why can people not just have the wisdom of accepting what they have? I beg to oppose."}]}