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{
"id": 578857,
"url": "http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/578857/?format=api",
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. (Ms.) Odhiambo-Mabona",
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"speaker": {
"id": 376,
"legal_name": "Millie Grace Akoth Odhiambo Mabona",
"slug": "millie-odhiambo-mabona"
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"content": "outside Parliament, and be covered by privilege. So, to that extent, I would agree with Hon. Nassir, except that I think it is not necessarily a reason that I would oppose this. But it is something that we can cure by the legislation that is being brought by Hon. Adan Keynan. For me, I will not oppose but I would want to say that we provide very clearly, under which part we should exclude so that, as Hon. Nassir says, we do not create potential tyrants. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, as Members of Parliament, some of the things that we do as part of our representation role is because of the privilege we are covered with, so that we can say things that other people cannot say outside Parliament, for instance. As a lawyer, I will be put to strict proof when I say some things and I would be charged with defamation and a whole manner of things and yet, sometimes, we have prima facie evidence over certain issues. If we are not insulated, then the county would stand to suffer and that is why, for me, I want to support Hon. Kaluma to the extent that, so long as there is evidence of good faith, we should insulate members of Parliament. This is also not only a challenge to our Judiciary. There is something despicable that is going on in the country; that leaders must now live above board. The small bickering that we are seeing is extremely embarrassing for this country. Sometimes, I feel that the Judiciary and Parliament have a sense of competition and that is why even, instead of following rules that are very clear by law, we want to show who is stronger or mightier – the sort of unnecessary wars that I see going on between this House and the Senate. Others calling themselves “upper or lower” House - and I heard my good friend Hon. Nassir yesterday saying that some may want to call themselves “houses close to heaven”. We need to get over that kind of approach and focus on serving Kenyans and on being true to the letter and spirit of the law. But, this coverage should not only extend to Parliament, but to Members of County Assemblies (MCAs). That is one of the reasons why I am supporting these amendments. But, with the same vein, when we are giving this sought of insulation to Members, then they must also live by higher standards. If you look at the debates and actions that go on in some of our country assemblies, it is embarrassing and, sometimes, you almost feel that we need to lift that veil and reach people who do not honour the dignity of the Houses that they are serving. We need to exclude by subsidiary legislation, again, not only for Parliament, but for county assemblies also. Another thing that I support – and I know that in court we cover the proceedings of the court through the sub judice rule--- Again, this one is even by common law practice in the Commonwealth, you cannot indict Parliament when it is doing its work. If you are dealing with the issue of separation of powers, it sets in when the work of Parliament is already done. I think we have made several rulings in this House. Unfortunately, sometimes the courts, as I have indicated before, have gone over-board and purported to “injunct” Parliament when they are doing their work. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, that is unlawful. If the courts did their work, we would not need to do these amendments. But because the Bible tells us: “Remind them even if they know”, by Constitution, we will remind them even if they know. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I support."
}