Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motions:- THAT, being aware of the limited capacity of the Government in the manufacture of motor vehicles registration number plates, owing to the manual and outdated means used presently; considering the high demand for number plates and the delay in the supply of the same; due to the slow process in manufacturing, appreciating the advancement of technology elsewhere in the world and the need for the Government to embrace the same so as to facilitate expeditious manufacturing of normal as well as private or customized plates and enhancement of security features to prevent use of fake plates; this House urges the Government to consider licensing of private manufacturers to make normal registration number plates as well as private or customised plates using modern technology so as to avoid the delay in making and issuance of registration number plates to enhance security features and to raise revenue.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security the following Question by Private Notice. (a) What are the circumstances surrounding the fatal shooting of Messrs. Jeremiah Otieno Ochol and Christopher Gathogo on 13th June, 2009? (b) Could the Minister confirm that the two were removed from a Mombasa- bound minibus and shot at point-blank range by police officers at Konza in Machakos? (c) What action has the Government taken to apprehend the suspects? (d) When will the bodies of the victims be released to their next of kin for burial?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) On the 13th June, 2009, the Criminal Investigations Department (CID) officers from Nairobi Special Crime Prevention Unit (SCPU), acting on a tip off that armed
Mr. Speaker, Sir, when you look at the circumstances surrounding the case, I think the Assistant Minister was misled by his officers. It was a clear case of execution of the suspects by the police instead of apprehending them to face the law. If that was not so, how come that the postmortem report on Jeremiah Otieno indicated that he was shot from behind and not from the front?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is very sad to come to this House and start protecting criminals. It is equally sad when the same criminals attack MPs and innocent Kenyans.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I do not know whether you heard what the hon. Assistant Minister has said. He is saying that by asking a question here, the hon. Member is supporting criminals. What is in question here is extra judicial killing by the police.
Mr. Ojode, if you said that, unfortunately, I did not hear you. I was consulting with the Member for Kuresoi on an important matter. But if you said that, that is tantamount to imputing improper motive on the part of the hon. Member for Kisumu West. Could you just clarify if that is what you said?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I said that--- You know very well that the Nairobi- Mombasa Road had many criminals who used to block the road. Those are some of the criminals who were causing havoc on that particular road. We got intelligence reports that there were two criminals who were just about to stop a bus, ransack the passengers and loot their items. Upon receipt of the same message, we sent our police officers to that area to block the bus by using logs. Indeed, they complied. When the bus stopped, those two criminals came out of the bus firing at the police officers. The Police Act, Cap 28 says that they must also defend themselves if they are in problems. Since the two criminals were killed along the Nairobi-Mombasa Road, we have never had any problems. I have a copy of the postmortem report here. He can go through it. I also have an exhibit demo---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The issue does not require Mr. Ojode to repeat the answer. The issue was that he referred to me as protecting criminals?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have known the gentleman for a long time. He has never protected any criminals and I do not think he will protect any criminals. He will be supporting us to do away with the criminals. I know hon. Olago very well. I want to share with hon. Olago---
Order! Are you saying that you did not make the statement that has been ascribed to you by hon. C. Kilonzo?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did not make that kind of statement. If I made it in the course of answering this Question, then I apologize. I want to lay on the Table some evidence here. I have evidence of two barretta pistols that were recovered and a large number of ammunitions to show that those fellows were actually criminals. I also received a postmortem report. Maybe, the one who was shot at the back was trying to run away from the police officers. We cannot rule out that. I wish to lay on the Table the document for the purpose of Mr. Olago to refer to what happened.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister explain whether it was necessary to shoot with the intention of killing those suspects, instead of immobilizing them?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, under ordinary circumstances, we do not shoot to kill. We shoot to maim and to disarm.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if an inquest file was opened on this incident that took place in June, and if the statements from all the witnesses were recorded, how far has that case reached?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, under normal circumstances, we normally wait for the advice from the Attorney-General. To date, I have not received anything from the Attorney-General. However, I will try and ask him to fast-track the exercise.
asked the Minister for Roads:- (a) how much money the Ministry has allocated for the tarmacking of the 80 kilometer Wito-Mokowe section of Mombasa-Lamu Road; and, (b) when the work will commence.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. Let me clarify that Witu-Mokowe Road is not part of the Nairobi-Mombasa Road. The information I have is that the road is classified as C112 and links Lamu Island with
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I wish to thank the Assistant Minister for Roads, my very respected friend. However, I do not know where he read that, that road is part of Nairobi-Mombasa Road. That is because in my Question, and I think every hon. Member has a copy, Question No.350 refers to a section of the Mombasa-Lamu Road. I do not know where he got the Nairobi-Mombasa Road. According to part (b) of the answer, the Assistant Minister has admitted that he cannot be able to say when the tarmacking of that road will commence. My question to the Assistant Minister is: Is he aware that the local roads office has been informing the leaders that the survey has been done on the road and they are in the process of tendering? Could the Assistant Minister confirm or deny that the survey has been done and that the process of tendering is in progress?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Question we received in the Ministry indicated Nairobi-Mombasa Road but the Order Paper of today has made the correction. Therefore, I accept the sentiments by the hon. Member.
It is true that we have done some work on this road. Actually, the design has been carried out in two lots with respective estimated cost of construction as follows. Lot 1 which is C112 â Nyongoro-Witu-Lamu otherwise known as âMokoweâ, which is approximately 80-kilometres is rated to cost about Kshs4.8 billion to be built whereas the Hindi-Milimani-Mangai and Kiunga which is D568, which is approximately 150- kilometres will cost about Kshs6.7 billion. A total of about Kshs11.5 billion is necessary for this road. I have set out to look for good friends to fund the construction of this road.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is good to hear that some action is about to be taken but I would like to inform the Assistant Minister that the 80-kilometre road, besides giving problems to the private transporters, lorries and buses, is also used by the Government. It is the only road to Lamu and many of the Government Ministries use the same road. Could the Assistant Minister arrange to allocate proper funds for this road in the next financial year?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I totally agree with the sentiments of the hon. Member. Indeed, my Ministry will request this House to approve the funds. If this House approves the funds, I will construct the road.
asked the Minister for Water and Irrigation:-
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.
The project has faced numerous problems which include a dispute between the Kenya Wildlife Services (KWS) and the National Environment Management Authority (NEMA) over environmental audit, impact assessment issues, re-design and re-routing of pipelines that have been unprofessionally laid by the community and adverse weather conditions, among others. This has delayed completion of this project.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, construction of the dam can only commence after the Kenya Forest Services grants permission for the dam to be constructed at the identified site within Gathiuru Forest.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, while I thank the Assistant Minister for answering my Question, there are several questions arising out of his answer. First of all, this work was done without the knowledge of the leaders and the community on the ground. The people who did the work went into the forest, did shoddy work, came out and disappeared without uttering a word to the Member of Parliament, the District Commissioner, the District Officer, the councillor or members of the public. Secondly, we are told that the work was done to completion. Could the Assistant Minister tell us how much money was spent on this project?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is important that when hon. Members ask Questions, they follow them up so that their communities can benefit. I was very clear in my answer. I have said that there is a reason why this project was stopped, and that is what we should pursue and not whether the local people are involved because that is not the issue. This project was started after the local community gave all the approvals. They had the approval from the water appointment Board, the Chief Conservator of Forests and the EI License Registration Office. However, a junior officer, the District Forest Officer of Nyeri, wrote a letter and terminated the project. That is what surprises us. As a Ministry, we cannot continue with the work until that issue is resolved. The District Forest Officer should tell the community why he stopped that project because it was not his concern. Those are the issues that we are trying to address. We had only spent Kshs1.5 million of the first allocation which was about Kshs4 million. However, last year, I asked the Ministry officials to go and re-design that dam. That was done and the dam will cost over Kshs200 million for it to be of proper use. That is why we are saying that everything was done in a very shoddy manner. The question is whether the community and the Member of Parliament are ready to go and pursue the Kenya Forest Services so that we can be allowed to continue with our work.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has indicated that the Kenya Forest Service, which is a Government agency just like his Ministry--- I was wondering whose role it is to convince the Kenya Forest Service to grant the authority to do the dam in the forest. This is between the Kenya Forest Service and the Ministry of Water and Irrigation. Why should the Assistant Minister refer the matter back to the hon. Member?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Government has a responsibility and the community has its responsibility. We had to get authority from the NEMA, the Chief Conservator and any other licenses that are required. So, it is now upon the hon. Member of Parliament to find out why the Kenya Forest Service has stopped the work.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You have heard the Assistant Minister repeat the same thing. If there is an issue between the two Ministries, why can the two Ministries not engage instead of involving a Member of Parliament? What is their responsibility in terms of collective responsibility? Is the Assistant Minister in order to mislead the House?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have all the relevant authorities. Therefore, this Question should be directed to the Ministry of Forestry and Wildlife so that they can tell us why they have stopped the work. Otherwise, we can come in if the Member of Parliament wants us to assist him. We can provide him with copies of the authorities so that he can ask questions.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, who is more powerful between the District Forest Officer and the Assistant Minister? How can an officer stop such a project that will benefit members of the public? In fact, it is a big joke to hear that the District Forest Officer can stop such a project which has been funded to benefit the community.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, to solve this matter, it is important that we follow it up, all of us. We are ready to get back to work immediately we get this authority. We are also ready to assist the Member of Parliament so that we solve this problem so that the people of Gathiuru can benefit. I know the area very well because I am interested in it. Therefore, we shall pursue the matter and re-allocate the funds once again.
Hon. Members, Question No.530 is deferred to Wednesday, next week because the hon. Member for Butula is away in Egypt on parliamentary business. That then brings us to the end of Question Time and gets us into the Prime Ministerâs Time.
Any statement from the Prime Minister?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, you are aware that the Prime Minister is out of the country. He is in Copenhagen----
Hold on! Mr. Speaker, Sir, could you, please, protect me?
Order! Order, Assistant Minister!
What is it, Mr. Ethuro!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise under Standing Order No.40 on Prime Ministerâs Time. It provides that âthere shall be time, to be designated the Prime Ministerâs time, commencing at 3.00 p.m., every Wednesday.â The word âshallâ is mandatory; it is not optional. I wish to underline the word âShallâ and âevery Wednesday.â 2(a) says:- (a) the Prime Minister may make a Statement, or (b) questions may be put to the Prime Minister. Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you look at this Order Paper it has no provision for the Prime Ministerâs Question Time. I think that is a contradiction to the Standing Orders.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, Parliament, in its wisdom, knew that at one time the Prime Minister might be on official duties elsewhere. Standing Order No.40(3) says:-
âIn the absence of the Prime Minister, a Deputy Prime Minister designated by the Prime Minister may make a statement or answer questions under this part.â
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if this is allowed to continue, it would be a tendency of the office of the Prime Minister to take leave at his own convenience to avoid this House. We know things have been very hot for that office.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is true that Wednesday, at 3.00 p.m. is designated the Prime Ministerâs Time to make a statement or answer Questions. But when you look at todayâs Order Paper, there is nothing which demands that he either makes a statement or answer a Question. It is very important for the hon. Members to follow what is on the Order Paper.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, further to what hon. C. Kilonzo said, if you look at the structure of Government today, the Principals, in their wisdom, created not two offices of a Vice-President, but two offices of Deputy Prime Minister. In the event that the Prime Minister has had to travel for State duties, he has two people to choose from.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have filed Questions which have not been reflected on the Order Paper ostensibly because the Prime Minister is not around. We would want to know where the other two Deputy Prime Ministers are.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, hon. Ethuro! You have done your part; we must now hear the Minister holding brief for the Prime Minister.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is, indeed, true that today the Prime Minister was allocated time. But going by the Order Paper, all those editorial arguments coming from our friends would have matured if the Question was placed for the Prime Minister, but there was nobody to reply to him.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, you and I know that the Order Paper is what dictates to the House its business. There is no Standing Order which has been contravened by the Prime Minister. Hakuna ! If there is, let us get the Standing Order which the Prime Minister has contravened. There was no Question which was filed for him. So, why should we vilify or bash the Prime Ministerâs Office? If we have to go by the traditions of this House, what gives us the Order of the day is what is in the Order Paper. That question actually should have been asked to the Clerkâs office; that I did file a Question, but it is not
Order! Order, hon. Members this matter must rest. I have heard enough presentation and I will give directions now.
Hon. Members, I have heard the presentations made by the five hon. Members present in the House this afternoon led by hon. Ethuro. I have heard the response on behalf of the Prime Minister by the hon. Orwa Ojode. My directions are as follows: - First, the business of this House and conduct thereof is governed and regulated by the Standing Orders. The Order Paper is simply one of the products that emanate from the application of the Standing Orders. In which case, then, if there is a conflict between the Order Paper and the Standing Order, then the Standing Orders will prevail. The Standing Orders provide under Standing Order No.40 for there being Prime Ministerâs Time provided to be at 3.00 p.m. on every Wednesday. It is actually in mandatory terms that; âThere shall be Prime Minister Time âon every Wednesday at 3.00 p.m.â So, the expectation which is implicit if not expressed from this provision is that the Prime Minister will be present to take his time and discharge the responsibilities expected of him at 3.00 p.m. on every Wednesday. In his absence, one of the two deputies will hold brief and take responsibility on behalf of the Prime Minister.
It is for that reason that I took cognisance of the fact that we must move on to Prime Ministerâs Time at 3.00 p.m., which we did. I know that the Prime Minister is not here because he notified the Office of the Speaker that he will be away and he was granted leave to be away from Parliament. However, the two Deputy Prime Ministers have not been given leave to be away. So, it is actually disorderly conduct for the two of them to be away. They are away on a presumption that no matter will arise pertaining to the Prime Ministerâs Office which may call for a reaction or response from the Prime Minister. So, that is disorderly.
What would have been expected of them and I so direct is that they will be present in the House and when this order is called as has been called, they will then have an account which they will give to the House and, for example, state that the Prime Minister has no statement to issue or the Prime Minister has no question to answer or he is not ready to answer those Questions which Mr. Speaker, may have approved.
That is how we will conduct business this time. So, I will expect that the two Deputy Prime Ministers will have an explanation to offer to the House when they show up as to why they were not here this afternoon. This House does not operate on presumptions; this House operates on the basis of law as set out in the Constitution, other statutes and the Standing Orders. Those are my directions.
Order! This matter must rest. I believe my directions are very clear. I have been categorical and unequivocal. I demand that this matter rests there.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Dr. Khalwale, you will be treading on a bit of dangerous ground unless you are raising something new. You can make an attempt. What is your point of order?
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to attempt. I was just inviting the Chair, having deliberated on the strength of Standing Order No.40, to also find that hon. Uhuru Kenyatta and hon. Musalia Mudavadi have also breached Standing Order No.97(1)(e) which provides that they have been grossly out of order by way of abusing their privileges. So, I wanted to invite you that under Standing Order No.97, you apply the power which you enjoy under Standing Order No.97 (2)(b).
Order, hon. Members! I appreciate the point of order which has been raised by the Member for Ikolomani and its weight. However, I am of the view that I have adequately addressed this matter, more so, given that this is a first breach by the Office of the Prime Minister. So, we will go forward from there. I will expect an explanation from the two Deputy Prime Ministers when they show up.
Next Order! Order, hon. Members! We have a number of Ministerial Statements which are due this afternoon beginning with the one relating to the national cholera epidemic .
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I wish to give a Ministerial Statement on the acute watery diarrohea/cholera outbreak in the country as at 7th December, 2009. This Statement was sought by hon. Ekwe Ethuro last Thursday.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the country has been experiencing outbreaks of acute watery diarrohea, including cholera since December 2008. So far, 50 districts across the country have been affected, with a total of 11,370 cases and 259 deaths reported. Out of these, a total of 753 cases have been confirmed as cholera. In the last one month, a total of 4,842 acute watery diarrohea cases with 131 deaths have been reported. During the last one week, 11 districts, namely Turkana South, Turkana Central, Turkana North and East Pokot in the Rift Valley Province, Kamukunji, Kasarani and Starehe in Nairobi, Ruiru in Central Province, Chalbi in Eastern Province and Lamu and Msambweni in Coast Province have reported 245 new cases of acute watery diarrohea; 39 laboratory confirmed cases and 119 deaths. Currently, a total of 59 people are admitted in health facilities across the country.
Hon. Members, do you have any requests for clarifications?
Yes, hon. Ethuro?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Assistant Minister for the limited response to a very serious outbreak of cholera in the region.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has explained that they have closed thousands of businesses, eating places and other businesses that have been found to be unhygienic. This Ministry is supposed to be proactive and preventive, not only acting when such diseases as cholera occur. This Ministry has a number of health officers in all the locations in the smallest of towns and yet, when you go to these towns, you cannot even get a place to wash. The eating places and other businesses are very unhygienic. I want the Assistant Minister to clarify what the work of these officers is throughout the year. Why close these businesses only when an outbreak of cholera occurs and not check these businesses and eating places, on a continous basis, to ensure that they are kept in hygienic conditions?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister did mention Chalbi in Marsabit North, as one of the areas affected by cholera. As of now, we have lost 12 people and seven people have been admitted to Ires Health Centre as of today. How does this Assistant Minister expect to contain cholera in Marsabit North without a single medical doctor or a single nurse hired by the Government and working in that district? There is not a single vehicle or even a motorcycle provided by the Ministry in that region. How does he expect the people of North Horr or Marsabit to contain cholera?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, since the Ministry of Public Health is supposed to attach more importance to preventive healthcare rather than curative healthcare and since the affected areas or the high risk populations are said to be in the north in the Arid and Semi-Arid Lands (ASALS) zones; and since these people use water for consumption from dams as well as for their livestock, does the Ministry have the capacity, in terms of personnel and lab testing, for the officers in the field to continue doing lab analysis of the water that is used for consumption by these people?
Mr. Assistant Minister, you may now make your responses!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is the second Statement I am making about Cholera in this House. I have indicated to this House before that one of the most critical challenges that we have in the public health is the issue of financing in terms of adequate funding to carry out our mandate. We have done that by presenting our budget to the House. We are also faced with the challenge of lack of human resource, that is, doctors, nurses and clinical officers. We have been able to train a few members of staff. We have about 32,000 nurses in the country at the moment; 16,000 are in the public sector and
Hon. Members, we will take two Statements from the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and Ministry of Finance.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on 12th November, 2009, hon. Affey sought a Ministerial Statement on the circumstances surrounding the freezing of bank accounts at the Crown Agency Bank Limited in London on 23rd October, 2009 following a court order. He specifically sought to know:- (a) how much money is held in the bank accounts. (b) for what purposes the Government put the money there. (c) which companies have taken the Government to court. (d) why they found it necessary to go to court. (e) an assurance that the Kenya High Commission in London will not be threatened by any such court actions emanating from these cases. Mr. Speaker, Sir, accordingly, I wish to make the following Statement: In April 1998, the Government of Kenya, acting through the Ministry of Finance, contracted M/s SWIPO-SA to verify imports into Kenya and also to verify work which was being undertaken by Pre-Shipment inspection companies. This responsibility was later transferred from SWIPO-SA to Inspection Control Services (ICS), a company incorporated in England and Wales through a Novation Agreement signed in May, 1999.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has confirmed very clearly that, indeed, the Government has made commitments that were legally binding. The Government has, in fact, moved to the level of arbitration, following which the Attorney- General of Kenya advised the Minister for Finance to meet his obligation resulting from the arbitration. It is, however, very clear that the Ministry of Finance ignored the advice of the Attorney-General of the Republic of Kenya. It is also clear that over US$6 million is now being frozen. It is also clear that interest continues to accrue even as the Government dilly-dallies in settling this matter. Mr. Speaker, Sir, why did the Government find itself in such an embarrassing situation by, first of all, subjecting itself to the process of arbitration and defying the advice of the Attorney-General of the Republic of Kenya, who asked the Government to meet its obligation?
Is there anybody else who is interested?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the explanation given by the Assistant Minister defies logic in simple minds like mine. If the services were not provided, why did the Government enter into arbitration? If arbitration was offered, why did we not take it?
Mr. Assistant Minister, can you give your responses?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, what hon. Affey wants to know is why we ignored the advice of the Attorney-General. We did not ignore that advice. Our position, as Government, and as Ministry of Finance, was that we would have appealed against the ruling of the arbitration court. The Attorney-General had advised us that our case would be a little weak even though we had what we believed was genuine concern about the performance of the company. As I have stated, we were budgeting for settlement of this particular case every year, but because of budgetary constraints and some urgent matters that arose, particularly last year, when we had drought that forced us to divert a lot of resources that were meant for things that were normally budgeted for, we were not in a position to pay. We are, however, making arrangements to sort out this matter in a manner that will not affect our normal budgetary issues. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I read out the case number here. I wonder how come Mr. Shakeel did not get it. It is Case No.14444/EBS/VRO at the International Chamber of Commerce International Court of Arbitration. It is a simple issue. So, it should not bother your mind. It should not be mind boggling!
Order, Mr. Assistant Minister! Can you now issue the second Ministerial Statement?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on Thursday, 3rd December, 2009, the Member of Parliament for Imenti Central, Mr. Gitobu Imanyara, sought a Ministerial Statement from the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance on how much money was refunded by one of the suspects in the Anglo Leasing Scandal. He particularly sought to know the amount involved, from what bank, when it was received in Kenya, the bank account into which the money went and the name of the suspect. Accordingly, I wish to make the following Ministerial Statement.
On 16th August, 2001, the Government of Kenya signed a contract with Anglo Leasing and Finance Company Limited of UK to install and commission a forensic laboratory facility for the Criminal Investigations Department (CID). The contract sum was US$75,749,999.99, which is the equivalent of Kshs4,368,000,000. Subsequently, the Government made payments to Anglo Leasing and Finance Company Limited as follows:-
Are there any Members interested in clarifications? That then should rest the matter. We will take a Statement now from the Minister for Lands so as to reduce pending Statements.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on 3rd December 2009, the Member for Ikolomani, Dr. Bonny Khalwale, sought a Ministerial Statement concerning the illegal acquisition of a plot known as Nairobi Block 93/1418 which the hon. Member stated was on an environmental carbon â zinc and buffer zone against noise. This plot is situated between Plainsview Estate and the busy Mombasa Highway. The Member further said that the plot belonged to the Government and that it had allegedly been grabbed. In my answer to the Question raised by the hon. Member on 15th September 2009, I informed the House that investigations had been initiated to ascertain the circumstances under which the plot may have been allocated to a private developer. The Ministry conducted thorough investigations and established the following: (i)This is public utility land. (ii)The plot number Nairobi Block 93/1418 with an area of 0.6450 hectares is a buffer zone between Mombasa Road and the Plainsview Estate in Nairobi. (iii)There is no correspondence file or parcel file for the plot which is an indication or confirmation that the plot has not been allocated to any individual. (iv)However, there is a Green Card purportedly opened in respect of the plot indicating that it was leased to Moca Africa Ltd. for a term of 99 years from the 1st February 1996. On the face of it, the Green Card appears to be a forgery and the Ministry has referred it to the Director of Criminal Investigations for appropriate action. The construction that is ongoing has been stopped since the plot is a buffer zone and should remain as such. However, if further construction will be carried out, it will be nothing but an unauthorized structure and will be demolished in accordance with the appropriate laws. I have undertaken to go with Dr. Khalwale to check the physical status of this plot and to confirm what the hon. Member is saying.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank the Minister for undertaking to come with me. However, could he indicate whether it is possible for us to be there this Friday? For the information of the Minister even this morning this private developer was still having workers on site. He has askaris who work for him on site. Could the Minister enforce the directive he has made?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we must thank the Minister for taking this pro- active action in respect of this plot that was to be grabbed. What is the Ministryâs policy concerning public utility plots which have been so called âallocatedâ? There are so many of such plots in the country.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would want to have some discussion with Dr. Khalwale. I would want to go on the ground with appropriate officers. I would want to make sure they are available because if I go there without them, probably my physical inspection may not be very useful. We can discuss that. I have indicated that whatever constructions that are going on are an exercise in futility. I will be requiring the Director of Physical Planning, under the Physical Planning
Mr. Speaker, Sir, last week I had asked for two Statements from the Ministry of Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs and they gave the undertaking that they would deliver them this afternoon. I believe that Mr. Cheptumo is in the House and will be able to say something about the Statements.
Order, Mr. Olago! Indeed, the Assistant Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs has already appraised the Chair on his position, and this statement will be allotted time tomorrow afternoon. So, Mr. Cheptumo, you need not make any further response.
It is true I will be able to give the statement tomorrow in the afternoon.
I have said that already.
What is it hon. Member for Turkana?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am the Member for Turkana Central.
I am giving you a bigger constituency!
I hope the Members of the Committee of Experts are listening to you so that they give me the three constituencies.
Anybody holding brief for the Minister? Minister for Energy, will you please hold brief for your counterpart?
Mr. Speaker Sir, on the basis of the doctrine of collective responsibility, I will hold brief for the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security only to communicate to him the concern raised by the House.
Minister, as much as possible, can you make your colleague know that if it is ready, he can deliver that statement tomorrow afternoon?
I will pass the message.
Thank you; that settles the matter! Hon. Members from now henceforth you will be guided by the Supplementary Order Paper, which reflects the business that we will deal with.
Hon. Members we are now in Committee of the whole House to deal with the National Youth Council Bill, (Bill No. 6).
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir. I, on behalf of the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare, to which this Bill was committed, would like to move:- THAT, Clause 2 be amended in the definition of the term âyouthâ, by deleting the words âfifteenâ and âthirtyâ and substituting therefor the words âeighteenâ and âthirty-fiveâ respectively. This amendment seeks to increase the minimum and maximum age of those to be deemed youth.
Hon. Noor, what you are saying is already on Order Paper. So, the hon. Members have copies of the Order Paper. They can refer to it because it is already there.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I do not want to appear to be going against the decision of the Committee which sat to look at the necessity of this amendment. But, in my own mind, we are creating a facility that is supposed to help the youth. When you now expand this to include people who are 35 years old, it simply means that we have started playing politics, because it is only in political parties where you find that the national youth leader in some of our political parties is 40 or 65 years old and that kind of thing. We must accept that, once you are over 30 years of age, you are no longer a small boy or a small girl. Had you not gone to school, probably, you would be about to become a grandmother or a grandfather. We do not want to allow old people to enjoy the privileges of the youth. That is why I oppose the amendment.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I rise to support this amendment. This amendment is simply trying to incorporate into the Bill the international definition of a âyouthâ. The international definition of a âyouthâ is the age of 18 to 35 years of age. It is simply that! It has nothing to do with whether you are a grandfather or grandmother, or whether you went to school or not. It is important, so that the definitions of youth in all our laws are the same instead of having different definitions. To me, this is a very simple and innocent amendment. I support the amendment.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to oppose this particular amendment. I think we should be serious about the definition of youth. You will find that in this country someone who has two wives still considers himself a youth. I think it is high time we brought this to a stop. Let us address the real âyouthâ in this country. Otherwise, you will find people who are approaching fifty years of age campaigning on the platform of youth. This is because the definition of âyouthâ is amorphous. When we want to restrict the youth to the relevant age, some people still want to extend it to more than 30 years. Secondly, I also oppose raising the minimum age from 15 to 18 years. This is because if you look at our children nowadays, you will see that they mature too early. So, the age at which you were starting school and the age at which you were completing Form Four--- Today, the youth complete Form Four at a lower age and we need to consider them. We need to lower the age bracket for the youth. I want to remind the Minister, who has just spoken, that even the definition in the Constitution provides that for one to contest for the presidency they have to attain the age of 35 years, so that even when you are aged 18 years you cannot contest for the presidency. A serious attempt is being made to remove that requirement so that if you are even 18 years old, you can still contest for the presidency! So, if you wanted uniformity, then it is already done away with.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, with those few remarks, I beg to oppose.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir. I just wanted to remind the Minister of State for Planning, National Development and Vision 2030 that Vision 2030 was not brought to this House for approval. I think the Government has just been implementing it. It is an Executive tool and therefore, it should not be referred to in this House. Is the Minister in order to refer to a document which was not brought to this House?
Mr. Minister, is that really a Government tool?
Madam Minister, do you have a comment on that amendment?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I would like to confirm that we held extensive consultations and the age of between 18 and 35 was agreed. Fifteen years is very young. These are primary school leavers. I confirm here that we discussed this with the relevant Departmental Committee and came to an agreement that this is the accepted age bracket.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 4 be amended byâ
(a) deleting paragraph (a) and substituting therefor the following new paragraphâ â(a) regulate and co-ordinate activities and initiatives relating to the youth being undertaken by youth groups, youth focused community-based organizations, non-governmental organizations, civil society movements and other organizations;â; (b) inserting the following new paragraphs immediately after paragraph (l)â
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:-
THAT, clause 5 be amendedâ (a) in Subclause (1), byâ (i) inserting the words ânominated by the Council andâ immediately after the word âChairpersonâ in paragraph (a); (ii) inserting the words âor his or her representative appointed in writingâ immediately after the word âaffairsâ in paragraph (b); (iii) inserting the words âor his or her representative appointed in writingâ immediately after the word âfinanceâ in paragraph (c); (iv) inserting the words âor his or her representative appointed in writingâ at the end of paragraph (d); (v) deleting paragraphs (e) and (f) and inserting the following new paragraphs immediately after paragraph (d)â â(e) the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry for the time being responsible for finance or his or her representative appointed in writing; (f) the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry for the time being responsible for education or his or her representative appointed in writing; (g) the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry for the time being responsible for internal security and provincial administration or his or her representative appointed in writing; (h) eight youths elected by the youth in such manner as may be prescribed, and appointed by the Minister; (i) not more than eight other youths, of whom at least three shall be of the female gender and one shall be a youth with disability, nominated by the National Youth Congress in such manner as may be prescribed and appointed by the Minister;
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I have a further amendment.
Let us dispose of the first part of the amendment.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:-
THAT, Clause 5(2) of the Bill be amended by inserting a new Subclause (e) immediately after Subclause (d) as follows:- (e) is a youth as defined under this Act. The reason is that the chairman must be a youth and none other than a youth!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I support that particular amendment. Let the chair be the real youth and not the ones that we think are youths and are not youths!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 6 be amended in Subclause (1) by inserting the following new paragraph immediately after paragraph (e)â â(f) create branches from the Sublocation to the national level and such other branches as it may deem necessary or desirable for the promotion of youth empowerment and development.â
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 10 of the Bill be amendedâ (a) in Subclause (1), by inserting the words âa youthâ immediately after the words âwho shall beâ; (b) by deleting Subclause (2) and substituting therefor the following new Subclauseâ â(2) The Secretary shall hold office for a period not exceeding five years, or until he or she attains the age of thirty-five years, whichever is earlier, on such terms and conditions of service as the Council may, from time to time, determine.â
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I support this amendment. I think this is a very good amendment. We have put the word âyouthâ here to do away with the pretenders to the throne; people who were in Youth for KANU 92 and 20 years later, they still think they are the youth!
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 16 of the Bill be amended in Subclause (2)â (a) by deleting paragraph (c) and substituting therefor the following new paragraphâ â(c) eight youths nominated by the Council and appointed by the Ministerâ; (b) by inserting the following new subparagraphs immediately after subparagraph (ix) of paragraph (d)â â(x) the Kenya Scouts Association; (xi) the Kenya Girl Guides Association; (xii) the National Agency for Campaign Against Drug Abuse Authorityâ.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, a new proviso be inserted immediately after Clause 16(d) (ix) as follows:-
âProvided that, at least, one-third of the persons appointed under paragraph (d) shall be of either gender.â
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:-
Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona, do not be worried! I am not standing to oppose the amendment! I am actually standing to support it! This actually confirms that this provision was lacking in the Anti-Corruption and Economic Crimes Act. This means that what the President did was actually correct. So, it is good that we have clarified this situation!
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir. Is the Minister in order to revive a case that this House debated and passed? Is he not contradicting the resolution of the House without coming up with a Motion in a proper way?
Mr. Githae, do you want to take us back?
I am not taking you back, Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir. I am just commending Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona for her wisdom in bringing this amendment, so that it removes any uncertainty in the issue!
Very well! If there are no further contributions, Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona, do you have any other additional information?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I agree with the Minister, save that, that is not the reason why I moved this amendment. As lawyers, we always want to be certain. So, where we have seen mischief in the past, we correct the mischief. So, it is not that I agree that, that was the correct position.
But the Minister was trying to support you, after all that.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the House its
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 3 of the Bill be amended- (a) by inserting the words âa Prime Minister, two Deputy Prime Ministers andâ immediately after the words âshall beâ appearing in Subclause (1); (b) by inserting the words âincluding the offices of Prime Minister and the two Deputy Prime Ministers shall not be less than fifteen norâ immediately after the word âsectionâ appearing in Subclause (3); (c) by inserting the following new Subclauses immediately after Subclause (4) as follows- (5) The ministerial portfolio of the Prime Minister shall be as assigned by the Constitution. (6) The President shall appoint each Deputy Prime Minister to be a Minister in charge of one of the offices of Minister specified in the Schedule or established under Subsection (2), as the case may be. Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, with your permission, I just want to explain the rationale. This is really making it a bit neat. We have made sure that some offices that do not necessarily have to have the specific portfolio except for the position of the Prime Minister which has a portfolio given as per the Constitution, for instance the two Deputy Prime Ministers and the Vice-President shall already be Ministers of the Government. We have put that in the body so that it will help with the further amendments to the Schedule.
( Question of the amendment proposed)
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:-
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I want to support this amendment because it qualifies what âintegrityâ means. In the past, we have seen people who have even been convicted of criminal offences holding Ministerial positions. It is high time we put a stop to this by making it very clear that somebody who has been convicted of corruption or an economic crime within the meaning of the Anti-Corruption and Economic Crimes Act, should not be allowed to hold such a position.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I rise to support this amendment but I wish hon. Kapondi could have been more courageous and instead of just saying âconvictedâ, going further. By the time one is convicted, people are going to constitutional courts and the cases are getting delayed. The ones that were filed in the year 2002 have still not been heard! I wish he could have said âwhere allegations have been madeâ. That would have been neater!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I wish to support the amendment by my friend, hon. Kapondi. Again, this is just an opportunity to raise the bar of integrity. I do not think that the Chair would entertain the contribution by the Minister for Nairobi Metropolitan Development. Being a lawyer, every Kenyan has a right to appeal if he feels that the law did not dispense justice to the person. So, if you exhaust the options available to you legally, then we can talk about a full conviction.
Prof. Kaloki): Hon. Githae, do you want to battle that or we just move on?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, as I said, I am supporting this amendment, but I wish the hon. Member could have raised the bar even higher!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:-
THAT, Clause 5 of the Bill be amended by inserting a new paragraph as follows-
(e) all matters, administrative or financial, pertaining to the Ministry.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, let him explain the rationale of the amendment.
Hon. Kapondi, there is a request that you explain the rationale behind your amendment.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, accountability matters cannot just be left like that. We said that this clause should be amended by inserting a new paragraph because we felt that something was missing. For one to be asked to account when he or she is not in charge of the administrative and financial matters pertaining to the Ministry, it will not be fair. That is why we felt that it is critical to include this amendment.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I wish to oppose this amendment. That is because this amendment attempts to give the impression that the Minister will be both the Minister and also the Permanent Secretary. The Minister cannot be loaded with all these matters that are of financial and administrative in nature. Let the Minister be responsible for the policy aspect of running the Ministry and then the Permanent Secretary can do all the housekeeping matters.
I beg to oppose.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I am constrained to oppose this amendment by my good friend; a man I respect and the Chairman of the Committee, for one simple reason. The responsibility of a Minister of Government, even constitutionally, is to advise the President as a Cabinet. This amendment is trying to make a Minister of Government to be a Permanent Secretary or Accounting Officer. I do not think, in the way we arrange our business, we should entertain that as Parliament.
So, I humbly and respectfully wish to oppose this amendment.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I also rise to oppose this amendment. If we effect this amendment, then it will make Ministers become civil servants. They will be in charge of all administrative matters. Ministers are not in charge of administrative and financial matters. A Minister gives policy guidelines to the Ministry. So, we should not confuse Ministers with civil servants. I do not want to be a civil servant! I want to be a Minister!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I also want to add my voice in opposing this particular amendment. That is because, really, if you are giving the Ministers responsibility, you should do so if you know that they have the capacity to execute that responsibility. As it stands now, it is not possible for the Minister to have the capacity to deal with administrative and financial matters.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I wish to make it very categorical that, in the past, this House has censured Ministers because of failing in their respective Ministries. It is very unfair to come here, allude to mismanagement in Ministries and point a finger at a Minister. The Committee felt that because a Minister takes overall responsibility, that alone calls for this amendment to be put in place. That is why we felt that it is very critical that this amendment be introduced.
Hon. Kapondi, sensing the mood of the House, do you want to withdraw or proceed and we vote?
You will fight another day!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I may live to fight another day but, on behalf of the Committee, I will still stick to it and be defeated.
Okay! I will now proceed to put the Question!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:-
THAT, the Schedule to the Bill be amended- (a) by deleting paragraph 1; (b) by deleting paragraph 2; (c) by deleting paragraph 3; (d) by deleting the words âDefence, Provincial Administration and Internal Securityâ appearing in paragraph 5 and substituting therefor the words âProvincial Administration and National Securityâ; (e) by inserting the word âChildrenâ immediately after the word âGenderâ appearing in paragraph 12; (f) by deleting the word âandâ appearing immediately after the word âTransportâ in paragraph 13; (g) by deleting the words âMetropolitan Developmentâ appearing in paragraph 16 and substituting therefor the words âDevelopment of Metropolisâ (h) by deleting the word âOneâ appearing in paragraph 24 and substituting therefor the word âThreeâ.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, the amendment that I am proposing to the Schedule by deleting paragraphs 1, 2, and 3 is consistent with the amendments that I moved earlier in terms of bringing those Constitutional positions to the body of the Act.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, the other amendments are really more to do with cleaning-up and wording; where instead of a longer name of âDefence, Provincial Administration and Internal Securityâ we have just made it âProvincial Administration and National Securityâ where âNational Securityâ will involve both internal and external security which is usually defence.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, on âeâ which is the Ministry of Gender and Children Affairs, we have added âchildrenâ. I am glad because this Bill is coming to
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir. I wish to support the amendment, especially on Clause 3 which has to do with inclusion of children. I know it was forgotten. Even earlier today in the House, we had a situation where a Minister was actually alluding to children as being an appendage to adults. We know that children in their tender years need support and guidance but they are still human beings in their own rights. Therefore, whenever we create Ministries, we must acknowledge children as children and gender concerns to take care of women issues. I support the amendment.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I also wish to support the amendment to the Schedule and, in particular, I want to address the issue of development of metropolis. It is true that the Ministry that I am heading is the Nairobi Metropolitan Development, but under the Vision 2030, there are supposed to be six more metropolis; that is, Kisumu, Mombasa, Eldoret, Isiolo, Mwingi and Garissa. It is important that this is recognized in the Offices of Minister Bill so that when the President appoints, then he can develop these metropolis. Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I support.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the House its consideration of The Offices of Minister Bill and its approval thereof with amendments.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered The National Youth Council Bill and approved the same with amendments.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House doth agree with the Committee in the said Report.
(Mr. Githae) seconded.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have come to a very nice end on the question of Offices of the Minister Bill. As we pass this law---
Order, hon. Khalwale! We are dealing with the National Youth Council Bill. You will still have the opportunity. Let us have hon. Millie Odhiambo!
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I just want to congratulate the Minister for such a good Bill. I am also happy that she is taking issues of the youth seriously. I want to say particularly that I am very happy the Minister has been very categorical about who the youth is and I would want to agree with hon. Mbadi that there are many pretenders to the throne of youthfulness. I, for instance---
Mr. Ethuro): Order, hon. Odhiambo! It is not a debate! Please, conclude!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I conclude by saying that I laud the Minister for a good Bill and for defining very categorically who a youth is, so that âYouth for KANU 1992â is no longer youth!
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir I also wish, first of all, to commend the Minister but even more so, the Committee that superintends this Ministry. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you have seen where the Minister consults the Committee, the business of this House is facilitated and it is easy. Therefore, I would request my colleagues that, before they bring any issue to be passed before this House, to consult the Departmental Committees that represent their Ministries. It makes the life of this Parliament much easier.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also want to thank the Minister for finally having this Bill come to the House and go through. I will only urge her to move with speed to ensure that we have clear rules for the election of the office bearers to the Council and let it be democratic. I thought it would have been a Schedule in this Bill, but she has the power to do that. Please, do so in order for democracy to prevail right from the sub-locations all the way to the national level.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want also to congratulate the Minister because this Bill will transform the youth of this country. I am proud to be part of the Bill today. Thank you.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the National Youth Council Bill be now read the Third Time.
(Mr. Githae) seconded.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that a Committee of the whole House has considered the Offices of Minister Bill and has approved with Amendments. I, therefore, beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said Report.
(Mr. Bett) seconded.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, is it in order for hon. Kapondi to respond on behalf of the Government?
Order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman! I appreciate your concern. However, you will appreciate that there were two
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just want to take this opportunity to congratulate the Mover of this Bill, hon. Ethuro, for having done what all successive Parliaments, since 1963, have not done. The Constitution gave this job to Parliament to create offices of Ministers which all other Parliaments have not done, until now. So, I wish to thank the Mover for this wonderful Bill.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I thank the Mover of this Motion, I am doing it in full knowledge that today, we have a very confused country in terms of leadership where we have a bloated Government which has not served much purpose in this country. Now that we have made it good and tidy, my only regret is that this law will not take effect tomorrow. We shall have to wait until the next Parliament. However, all the same, never again will our country be found with a bloated Cabinet. Secondly, I appeal to the appointing authority of that time that this law has fallen short of providing for gender issues. When we shall be constituting the Government at that time, we hope that the appointing authority will make sure that, at least, 50 per cent of the Cabinet will be of either gender.
Hon. Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona, now that we are on gender!
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I really did not want to contribute on gender, but I want to support the Mover and thank hon. Dr. Khalwale for the vote of confidence on women. I wish he had actualized it and moved an amendment that 50 per cent be women. Apart from that, I want to congratulate the Mover of this Motion. This is a very momentous time, for us as a country. Kenyans have been calling for a lean Cabinet and we have provided that.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also wanted to join my colleagues in congratulating you. This is, indeed, a historical Bill. We have made history. History will say that it was the son of a peasant from Turkana who brought what had not been done for 46 years. Indeed, it is historical. I want to urge that we should not wait for the next Government. We do not have to wait for the next appointing authority. We are appealing to the two Principals. When the bloated Cabinet was formed, it was a necessary evil. We must, as Kenyans, ask whether it is necessary to continue living with this evil. It was a negotiated agreement. The two Principals can negotiate again and say: âFine! Let them go home. I will keep ten and you can keep ten. Let us start this show right now.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Offices of Minister Bill be now read the Third Time.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to take this opportunity to very sincerely thank Members of the House Committee led by Mrs. Noor and the Legal Department of this House for the work that they have done. Hon. Members, I truly appreciate your support.
Order, Minister! Although you are relevant, you are tied to yours!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I needed to say that.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker I take this opportunity to thank hon. Members for the very informative contribution that they have made to this Bill. This Bill, once it is enacted into law, will take this country towards the right direction.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. What we have done today in this House is historical. I only wish that the Mover could have been more courageous and put a clause that says that Ministers should be appointed from outside Parliament. That is what Kenyans are saying. They want Ministers to be appointed from outside Parliament so that, when we are in this House, we are just legislators.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg move the following Motion. THAT, pursuant to Section 4A of the Public Roads Toll Act (Cap. 407 of the Laws of Kenya), this House approves Sessional Paper No.4 of 2009 on the Nairobi Urban Toll Road Concession Project laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, 8th December, 2009, together with the Concession Agreement and Tolling Regime annexed thereto.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have read that because it is an amended version of the Motion which we moved yesterday. So, I wanted it to go on record of the House that it has been---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order, Dr. Khalwale! Let me hear the Minister! Mr. Minister, are you moving an amended Motion or the Motion on the Order Paper?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the Supplementary Order Paper, the Motion was duly amended and approved by the Speaker. So, I have to read it so that it is on the record of the House.
The procedure is that when you move a Motion, you read the entire Motion.
I can read it again, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Please, do it for the benefit of the Chair.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion. THAT, pursuant to Section 4A of the Public Roads Toll Act (Cap. 407 of the Laws of Kenya); this House approves Sessional Paper No.4 of 2009 on the Nairobi Urban Toll Road Concession Project laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, 8th December, 2009 together with the Concession Agreement and Tolling Regime annexed thereto.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order hon. Members! I want the Minister to move the Motion so that it is properly before the House and then I attend to your point of order.
Continue, Mr. Minister!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am pleased to brief Parliament today on the proposed development of a section of Mombasa- --
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. This is a very important Motion which will move this country closer to Vision 2030. Therefore, it is on the strength of that that I would like to appeal to our brother from the Government side to take advantage of Standing Order No.51 so that he can move this Motion at a later date. I am saying this because this Sessional Paper was laid before this House only yesterday in the afternoon. Hon. Members did not have an opportunity to look at the Sessional Paper until this afternoon when we went to our respective pigeon holes and found this voluminous document. Now that we are about to contribute on this Motion, how on earth are we expected to make an informed contribution if we have not enjoyed the benefit of going through this? This is a massive project in which we shall commit this country to the concessionaire for 30 years. Therefore, it is not an issue that we can afford to rush through. I have a strong feeling that if we are given time, we will ask the Minister to clarify specific issues. For example, a quick birdâs eye view on this document has shown us that the company which has won this opportunity---
Order, Dr. Khalwale! You rose on a point of order and we want to know the Standing Order which is being breached and you have stated it. You are attempting to give reasons why you do not want the Motion to continue when the Minister has not even moved it. Let the Minister move this Motion and then I will give you the opportunity to raise your issues. That way, the Motion will be properly before the House. All is not lost, Dr. Khalwale.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are prepared to take all the concerns that will be raised on the Floor of this House because we want a project that is above board and on top of a table. So, I am prepared to listen to the concerns and come back. That being the case, I wish to brief the House.
Mr. Minister, if you consider Standing Order No.51, the hon. Member is asking you to withdraw the Notice of the Motion that you gave yesterday. In terms of sequence of events, if you agree with the hon. Member, then the easier thing is to withdraw the Notice of the Motion which you gave so that you do not have to go further to move the Motion. That Standing Order gives you the earliest opportunity after you have agreed to come back with the same notice. Mr. Githae, I hope you will support me because you have said that if the Government side agreed with the Back Bench, the operations of the House are very smooth.
Indeed, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I just want to seek your guidance on this issue under our Standing Orders. This is a Motion and not a Bill. Therefore, it has no maturity period. We know that Bills have a maturity period and not Motions. Our Standing Orders do not specify or state after how long a Sessional Paper should be discussed after it has been laid on the Table of the House. We have had cases where a Sessional Paper is laid on the Table of the House in the morning and we discuss it in the afternoon. We have had cases where a Sessional Paper has been laid on the Table of the House and after Question Time it is debated. So, there is nothing barring this House from proceeding with this debate. Secondly, time is of essence on this issue as we are meant to understand that the House might go on recess tomorrow. Therefore, since there is nothing barring this House from discussing this Motion--- Hon. Members will have the opportunity to read this voluminous report as we debate this Motion. I beg that we proceed with the Motion.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to proceed. The road in question is a section of Mombasa-Malaba Road which is commonly known as the âNorthern Corridorâ. It runs from Machakos turn-off on to Mombasa Road, Uhuru Highway, Waiyaki Way and ends at Rironi. It is a distance of 75 kilometres. That section of the road will be done by the concessionaire to its completion and will be managed by the concessionaire for a period of 30 years. I would like to indicate that there is a termination clause in the contract. There is also an independent engineer and the Government will be monitoring the progress of the project. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the 2030 Vision provides the overall national policy framework and Sessional Paper No.5 of 2006 on Development and Management of the Road Sector provided that the sector be developed and be able to carry forward the Vision 2030 principles for public roads. One objective of the Sessional Paper is that it will increase the involvement of stakeholders and private sector in road management and financing in the country. That is the gist of Sessional Paper No.5 of 2005. The project we are addressing today falls within that category of private sector participation in road maintenance and management. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the condition of existing roads in the country today could be improved and are being improved but there is a major challenge. That is
Order Members! The Minister shall be listened to.
Mr. Minister, I hope that the consultations are not obstructing you from talking.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, they were more or less obstructing me. But thank you for your protection.
I want to again indicate that the concessioner would construct an elevated road way on A104 between Nyayo Stadium and to be more specific from the Flyover before the Nyayo Stadium coming from Mombasa side, all the way to the Museum Hill up to the roundabout at Westlands. So, there is going to be a road on top of Uhuru High Way up to Westlands. I want to indicate that along the way, there will be intersections with interchanges to assist smooth flow of traffic. The Government with World Bank support will improve the Machakos Turn-off â Athi River of A109 to dual carriage way. Also, the Government with the World Bank will build the Southern by-pass which is part of this package. Once these two have been developed by the Government, they will be handed over to the concessionaire for purposes of management and maintenance for the rest of the period. The concessionaire will also erect toll stations. This will be easy responsibility. The concession is programmed for 30 years. I want to believe that 30 years is adequate because it is estimated that the project will cost US$900 million. That is the investment by this particular joint venture. They will look after the property for 30 years. If there is excess traffic, on their cost, they will increase the number of lanes, so that it covers our people. Each booth or toll station will employ a good number of our youths. We are estimating between 60 and 100. There will be about five toll stations. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I now want to touch on the tolling regime. The tolling regime will be taking into account Class A vehicles which are light vehicles, including the Passats which are now being used by the Ministers. Class two will be medium heavy vehicles including PSV ones, running from eight to 14 seaters. Class three will be larger heavy vehicles comprising Lorries and minibuses. Class four will be the extra heavy large vehicles comprising trucks and those of more axles. The toll charges for Class two, three and four vehicles will be two times, three times, eight times the toll charges levied on one. I will be indicating what it means in actual figures immediately after now. Once this agreement is approved by the House, the concessionaire will take six months to conclude financial arrangement with their various financiers. So, if we approve today, it means, we will be signing agreements conclusively somewhere in July next year. I am worried about any further delay for the simple reason that the financial landscape is changing across the world and they are going to be asking for money from banks outside this country. So, if we say today we do not pass this Motion, it means three months plus six months which is almost another one year. I want to plead with hon. Members to appreciate that this is intended to reduce on congestion, time taken by people to work, time taken by goods to reach factories and time taken by goods from factories to reach their stations for trading. That will boost economic development.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to second this very important Motion. Hon. Members will recall that before the amendment of the Toll Charges Act, the requirement for Parliament to approve toll charges was not there; this was done by the Government so as to enable Members of Parliament to scrutinise toll concessionnaires.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support this very important Motion because of the things I know it is going to do to Nairobi metropolitan. Previously, we used to have traffic jams only in the morning. Then, we had them during mid day, then in the afternoon, and now we have them throughout the day. The construction of this overhead route is going to eliminate these traffic jams.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you also have realized that whenever we have any small happening on the roads like a very small accident or rain, it causes traffic jams. Since this will be an express highway, the issue of traffic jams will be a thing of the past. The Government has no risk in this undertaking. Everything is upon the concessionaire. He is the one to look for or borrow the money and construct the road. The only thing the Government will do is to give him a piece of land where he can construct an overhead road.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the reason why it was found necessary to construct an overhead road is because of the land grabbers. They have grabbed land where an alternative road could have been done. Now, the only place available is the area between the two roads, the one going towards Mombasa and the one going towards Nairobi.
This is one of the many interventions that the Government is undertaking. We have the northern and southern bypasses which have started. When all these interventions are done as a whole, the traffic jam problem will be a thing of the past. I would urge this House to approve this Motion, so that this concessionaire can start working.
I would also like to take this opportunity to ask other investors who have identified a road where they can put up a toll station, to approach the Ministry of Lands who will give you the concession. Even on railways, if you want to construct a railway, please approach us. We will give that concession. Even if you want to construct a tram, approach us and we will give you the concession. If you want to construct helipaths, approach us and we will give you that concession. So, this should not just be looked at as a one-off thing; it is really something for the future. Even if you want to construct a Bus Rapid Transit (BRT), approach us and we will give you the concession.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support this Motion because the two recommendations that the Ministry of Nairobi Metropolitan Development put forward have been taken care of. One is that there will be an alternative, so that if you do not want to use the road that has been concessionaire, then you can use the ordinary road. So, you will not be forced to use it. Second, there should be a method of charging, so that we do not leave it to the concessionaire to charge whatever amounts that he will want to charge. That has been taken care of. In case of an increase, again, we wanted there to be a condition that the Minister will approve any new charges that have been taken care of. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the other recommendation was that there should not be a uniform charge for a person who is travelling from Machakos all the way
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Proceed, Mr. Mbugua!
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. There is no quorum in the House.
Order, Mr. Mbugua! Hon. Mbugua, you stood as if you were about to contribute; I gave you the chance.
And I still want to contribute, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Thank you for giving me this chance, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir---
Order, Mr. Mbugua! Order!
The rules of the House are very clear; you either rise on a point of order, then I know it is a point of order; like hon. Linturiâs. But you just stood and I thought you wanted to contribute. So, I gave you the opportunity. You cannot now change that opportunity from contributing to a point of order. The rules of the House are very clear; my job is very simple â just to enforce them. Proceed, hon. C. Kilonzo!
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. We have no issue on the idea, but what the Government is asking the House to do is like committing suicide. If you look at the Motion, they have brought the Concession Agreement in which
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this chance to contribute to this Motion. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, while I really appreciate the Ministerâs efforts to decongest Nairobi and save us, especially on economic time as he said when he was moving this Motion, I feel completely not able to reconcile with my conscience in giving him the leeway of going to execute the Concession Agreement with the Nairobi Motorway Group as he is trying to propose to us. The reasons that I would advance in this matter is that, as my colleague has said, we have a serious problem with the legality of this company. If there is a serious problem with the legality of a company, then, in my little understanding, you cannot go into a serious agreement with a company that is not-existent! Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Nairobi Motorway Group that is supposed to have participated in the expression of interest that was floated some time back--- I even wonder how they were able to pass the evaluation criteria by the team that was doing this evaluation because the very basic requirements that are provided for by the Public Procurement and Disposal Act were not in place; they were not registered and they do not have a tax compliance certificate. We are talking of a concession agreement that will run to US$900 million; this is not little money!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is a very brilliant idea from the Ministry of Roads. There are several advantages with regard to this proposal of decongesting the city and also reduction of time spent on our roads. However, there are very glaring shortcomings in this Paper. This is just like a single sourcing. We have been talking about transparency and accountability. When you look at a situation like this one to which you are going to commit a country, you have to look at the future. When you look at this case, you just see a single company. That is single sourcing!
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Mr. Githae? Be mindful that you could be contradicting a fellow Minister.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am actually shocked that Maj-Gen. Nkaisserry, who is a member of Government is actually opposing a very important Motion of the Government. He has said that he has serious misgivings. Is it in order?
Mr. Githae, I think Maj-Gen. Nkaisserry is also a Member of the House and he is expressing his views. We have not yet voted for you to say whether he is opposing the Motion or not.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Mr. Mbugua, now that you got it properly?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, Mr. Githae should not bring the problems of the Cabinet here. Maj-Gen. Nkaisserry has his own views as a Member of Parliament. So, I think he should continue; if he wants to support the Motion or not, well and good.
Proceed, Maj-Gen. Nkaisserry. The Chair had already disposed of that matter.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am elected by the people of Kajiado to represent them with regard to the resources of this country. I have not even said that I am opposing this Motion. I just said that there are glaring shortcomings in this Paper. There was no proper tendering and that is a fact, unless we were shown the companies that applied for the tender and the winner. According to information which has just come out, this company is not registered in this country. That is another shortcoming. We have not been shown the agreement between the Kenya Government and this company. I have not seen that myself. Because of the issue of commitment, transparency and accountability, despite all the advantages of this project, I think it is not acceptable and I oppose.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to start by joining my colleagues in agreeing that concessioning is an idea whose time has come. We have serious problems on our roads and we need to find a solution. Concessioning is one of the solutions. I have briefly looked at Sessional Paper No.4 because we only got it this afternoon and I noticed that the Minister has stated that from a technical viewpoint, we need additional financial investment and a functional high capacity transport system. I think the Minister should also acknowledge that part of the problems that are hampering the development of roads in the country is serious under-capacity in the Ministry and the country as a whole. As we speak now, and I am sure the Minister is aware because he is the custodian of the list of Engineers in the country, we only have just under 1,000 registered engineers and just over 200 registered consulting engineers. Out of those, perhaps, just about 10 per cent to 15 per cent are road engineers. So, the issue of under- capacity in the supply of engineers is a serious one. This county has to address it if we have to cope with a country like Angola which does between 2,000 to 4,000 kilometres of highway annually. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I find it difficult to support this Sessional Paper because of the inadequacy of the information provided. First of all, I think it will be reckless on our part, as Members of Parliament, to support an agreement between the Government of Kenya and an entity which in law does not exist. Having said that, I notice that on page 7 of the Sessional Paper, it is said that the World Bank granted assistance under the Public/Private Infrastructure Advisory Facility and a technical study was commissioned to evaluate economic, financial and technical viability of introducing concessioning in Kenya. I have discussed this matter with the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Transport, Public Works and Housing and I told him that if that study was really done, then it has to be assumed that the economic and financial viability can show that levy to be paid by road users is less than the accruing benefits. This is not demonstrated in the Report. On page 8 of the Sessional Paper, the last paragraph states: âIn 2006, the Government invited international bidders to tender for the Nairobi Road Concession (the parties are stated therein). The Government evaluated the bid that only one bidder from Austria, Messrs Straburg/HCH submitted a bid which the Government then evaluated with technical assistance provided by the World Bank.â
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity to contribute to debate on this Sessional Paper. This idea has come at the right time for it to be implemented. This is because it is becoming impossible for Kenyans to move around Nairobi today. If you calculate the cost of fuel consumed in traffic jams, and the time wasted, you might find that it amounts to the cost of constructing a similar road. However, this is the first time I have seen somebody come up with an idea that is not practical anywhere else in the world. I would understand âconcessioningâ to mean the Ministry of Roads designing the road based on the traffic flow, and on the need for the next 30 years. We, as a country, are talking about Vision 2030, but in this case, we are talking about an Anglo-Leasing type contract. We are not talking about Vision 2030. Why am I saying this?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to support this Motion from the very onset. As Parliament, we have always challenged the Minister for Roads to come up with practical measures of reducing traffic jams and making sure all our roads are motorable and making sure there is efficiency within our road system. I think the Minister has done his best and through public â private partnership programme, he has come up with this brilliant idea of concessionnairing. The concept of road toll system has worked in many other countries. It has worked in a city called Bogota and many other countries you have visited as Parliamentarians or in your private capacities. I, therefore, think this is an idea whose time has come. We should support it because I know the kind of money involved. Members may be right by saying this project
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir for giving me this opportunity to voice my support for this Motion.
At the outset, I would like to say that I am the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Transport, Public Works and Housing. Before this Sessional Paper came to the House, the Minister for Roads and his team sat with us twice and took us through it. Although I agree with what hon. Members have said that some pertinent issues could not have come out earlier, I still think and believe that what the Minister proposes is the way to go. We have realised that there is a lot of congestion on our roads and it takes a lot of time traveling from Athi River or Machakos to the City Centre or from Karen to the City Centre. It takes even up to three hours sometimes, to reach the City Centre. The only way we can get out of this problem is to come up with super highways. It is high time this country also moved in the same direction as Singapore, South Korea and the other developed countries which were at par with us in the last 40 years. We have gone through this Sessional Paper with the Ministry of Roads and realised that although hon. Members have a problem with the cost of the project and the
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is quite evident that both the supporters and opposers of the Motion are agreed on one thing that this is a welcome project. What is worrying us are the various gapping points that we would like see filled before we give out our word of approval for this. I am, therefore, moving an amendment to see if we can bridge that gap. I wish to amend the Motion as follows:- âI would like to amend by inserting the word âproposedâ in the second last sentence, between the words âtheâ and âconcessionâ so that the Motion will read as follows:- THAT, pursuant to Section 4(A) of the Public Roads Toll Act, (Cap. 407 of the Laws of Kenya), this House approves Sessional Paper No.4 of 2009 on the Nairobi Urban
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order! Mr. Minister, there is a known order from the Chair that you should comply with if you know it. It requires compliance. Dr. Khalwale, it has come to the notice of the Chair that you do not actually amend a Sessional Paper or even a Motion to that effect. So, you either take it as it is or you leave it.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. In medical school, there is one principle that we were taught that as soon as you qualify, you should appreciate that as you practice medicine, you do so with continuous learning. I have appreciated the learning and I want now, with that guidance, to mention that with all the remarks that I made through my amended Motion, I now oppose this particular Motion.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
What is it Mr. C. Kilonzo?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is true that you cannot amend a Sessional Paper. But I have not amended the Sessional Paper. I amended Motion No.9. Hon. Wetangula, second my amended Motion. I amended the Motion and not the Sessional Paper!
Hon. Dr. Khalwale, you can be sure that the Chair really enjoys your dramatic nature and would like a bit more. But, unfortunately, for now, the Chair is also advised according to the traditions and practices of the House. The Chair allowed you actually to make those contributions because it was equally agonizing along your lines. The Chair has considered all those possibilities and came to the considered opinion that you do not amend the Sessional Paper itself or the Motion. So, let the House be advised accordingly!
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. As you have advised, would I be in order to request you that in addition to the customs, cultures and practices of the House, let us know which particular Standing Order was breached by this particular amendment?
Order, hon. Members! I wish to advise hon. Thuo, who is also the Leader of Government Business that, one, you do not challenge the ruling of the Chair. You are completely out of order! If you need any Standing Order, then you can make reference to Standing Order No.1. Hon. C. Kilonzo!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise on a point of order to seek for a ruling from the Chair. We have a case where the Government or the Executive brought a document to Parliament in form of a Motion. The document is between the Republic of Kenya, represented by the Ministry of Roads and Nairobi Motorway Company Limited; a company which is not a legal entity and does not exist. Is it in order for the Government to bring a document that has an entity that does not exist legally?
Time is up!
Order, hon. Members! I appreciate that time is not really on our side. But I think there is an issue about that company. Mr. Minister, maybe, you could just make a comment on that, before I make a ruling. The hon. Member has said that the company is not registered. Is that correct?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is no agreement that has been signed. The concessionaire says that he will register the company as soon as the National Assembly approves---
No! Shame! Shame!
On a point of information, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order, hon. Members! Order, Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona! That Chair, at this point, does not wish to be informed. I do not think any other persons would like to be informed. But I think you have raised some issues that will require consideration by the Chair. Unfortunately, our time is up. So, there will be an opportunity tomorrow to revisit them.
Hon. Members, it is now time for the interruption of business. This House is, therefore, adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday 10th December, 2009, at 2.30 p.m.
The House rose at 6.30 p.m.