Hon. Speaker, Sir, this is a Petition dated 16th July, 2013. It is a Petition by 81 petitioners. It is about unemployed teachers who are supposed to be teaching in our pre- primary school institutions. They are petitioning the Government to employ them. The powers which they are seeking are:-
(a) That this Parliament does revise the Ministry of Educationâs budget and provides for funds for employment of Early Childhood Development (ECD) education teachers by the Teachers Service Commission (TSC).
(b) In the alternative, they compel or cause the Ministry of Education to revise a circular dated 13th January, 2013 to expressively provide for a vote for payment of the said teachers.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, briefly, according to the Constitution, the TSC is mandated to register all teachers but they have failed to register ECD teachers. According to the Education Act, it is mandatory that education should be free and basic which includes Early Childhood Education but the Ministry of Education and the TSC have a programme called District Centres for Early Childhood Education (DICECE). They train ECD teachers. They are examined by the Kenya National Examinations Council (KNEC) on both diploma and certificate courses but they are never employed by the Government. So, therefore, recently there was a circular to the effect that some money was given and it was only Kshs100 per child to cater for the caregiver. That money is not enough. Recently and probably after the conclusion of the recent strike, we provided some funds to the teachers but what about those who are teaching in our nursery schools at the pre- primary education level? So, therefore, they are essentially praying that the Government provides some funds for the employment of nursery school teachers. I do table the said Petition for consideration by the relevant Departmental Committee.\
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir.
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It is very surprising especially when you start trotting like that, it is not good. Well, it all depends. Some people say that there is early experience but it depends on what you are experienced in.
I think that is also part of the experience but hon. James Rege is recognised for his experience.
Hon. Members, this is a Petition regarding proposed amendments to the National Police Service Commission Act and the National Police Service Act. Hon. Members, our Standing Order No.225(2) provides as follows:- âWhen the Order âPetitionsâ is read, the Speaker shall â
(a) in case of a petition presented by a Member, direct that the Member to present the Petition to the House or;
(b) in case of a Petition presented through the Clerk, report the Petition to the House;â
I, therefore, wish to convey to the House that my office has, through the Clerkâs office, received a Petition regarding the proposed amendments to the National Police Service Act No.11A of 2011 and the National Police Service Commission Act No.30 of 2011. Hon. Members, the Petition dated 16th July 2013 is addressed to the National Assembly and it is signed by 29 citizens praying that Parliament refrains from making any amendments to the National Police Service Act and the National Police Service Commission Act. The view of the petitioners is that any amendment to the said law may violate the spirit and letter of the Constitution and erode the gains made in reforming the Police Service. Hon. Members, as you are aware the two Bills have been published but are yet to be read the first time. Whilst Parliament cannot be blocked from legislating, it is the right of every Kenyan to petition Parliament on any matter under the functions of Parliament. It is expected that Parliament will, through its committees, consider prayers sought by the petitioners. Hon. Members, this Petition therefore shall stand committed to the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security for consideration. In its report on the two Bills, the Committee is requested to consider the Petition and report its findings within 60 days or during consideration of the report of the Bills in the Second Reading whichever is soonest.
Thank you. Next Order.
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Hon. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.44(1), on behalf of the House Business Committee, I would like to give a Statement regarding the business appearing before the House next week.
On Tuesday next week, the 23rd July, 2013, it is expected that the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology will table its report to the House on the vetting of the nominees to the Teachers Service Commission and also give notice of Motion for consideration of that report. If you allow me, the Chairperson of that Committee may confirm the position after making this Statement. This is in keeping with your Communication on 10th July, 2013, regarding the timelines for vetting of the said nominees. On the same day, the House Business Committee proposes that the House will consider a Motion seeking to extend the constitutional timelines for the passage of the relevant legislation to actualize the provisions of Article 34. These are Bills related to the freedom of the media. The Constitutional Implementation Oversight Committee has since informed the HBC that the CIC only forwarded the legislative proposal on the freedom of the media Bill to the Cabinet last week. The Cabinet is yet to forward them to us for publication. It is, therefore, clear that if Parliament is to consider these Bills in detail, it is not possible to pass them by the deadline of 27th August, 2013, even if we were to forego our August recess. On the flipside, and I want the Members to hear me very clearly, the Members are aware that pursuant to Article 261(5), failure to pass these Bills before the constitutional timeline of 27th August, 2013, may attract any member of the public to petition the High Court to dissolve Parliament. We do not want to travel that route. In this regard, I wish to request all the Members to be present in the House on Tuesday next week to pass the Motion for extension which requires two-thirds majority of the House. I urge my colleagues that we should all be here on Tuesday next week at 2.30 p.m., so that we can get the required two-thirds majority to get the extension for the four months. If we do not do it, the many Omtatas will go to court and dissolve Parliament. On the same day, the HBC will be requesting the House to reduce the publication period of the National Police Service and the National Police Service Commission (Amendment) Bills, which have since been published and are within the precincts of Parliament. This will enable the relevant Departmental Committees to commence the process of consideration of the said Bills and also subject the two Bills to public scrutiny. The House will thereafter consider a Motion to nominate Members to the Pan-African Parliament in accordance with the Pan-African Parliament Protocol. Thereafter, the House may continue debate for the Second Reading of the following Bills, if debate is not concluded by then:- (i) The Capital Markets (Amendment) Bill, 2013. (ii) The Kenya Deposit Insurance (Amendment) 2013. (iii) The Micro-Finance (Amendment) Bill, 2013. (iv) The Insurance (Amendment) Bill, 2013.
On Wednesday next week or the week after, the House may also consider the VAT Bill, 2013 and the Finance Bill, 2013, for Second Reading. The House may also continue with debate on the Motions proposed by the Members. I wish to thank the Members across the political divide for speedily understanding the need to commence their own pieces of legislation. In this regard, before we proceed on recess and even after we come back, this House has a number of Bills to consider. Most of the Bills emanate from the Membersâ initiative. This will, therefore, gradually reduce the number of ordinary Motions coming from the Members.
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Is something out of order, hon. Mbadi? You have made some intervention.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I was just rising as a reaction to what the Leader of Majority Party has just presented. I am particularly concerned with the issue of extension of time. My concern is, yes, we will extend time, but the various constitutional bodies that are tasked with the responsibility of coming up with these Bills have had all the time knowing very well that we have the deadline of August this year. My worry is that probably some of these bodies which know that their life is tied to the conclusion and passage of the Bills that are spelt out in the Constitution, could deliberately be slowing down the process, so that they can continue existing.
Even as this House considers extending the time, it is high time that we reprimand through our CIOC the various bodies that are tasked with the responsibility of coming up with this legislation, so that we do not continue to have some of the bodies like the CIC, which probably will have outlived its life after the passage of all the Bills.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I totally agree with hon. Mbadi, but the Constitution is very clear that a Commission like the CIC has two aspects. The extinction of that Commission is based on the finishing of the legislation which is constitutionally bound for five years. I totally agree that these Commissions want to extend their lives by delaying Bills. It must come out very clearly that Parliament is ready, has all the time and the Committees are ready. Hon. Speaker, Sir, I want you to direct the CIOC to call these Commissions and expedite these Bills because we have a Committee of Parliament that has been mandated to do the follow up. I want your direction that this Committee calls these stakeholders and makes sure that we do not go through what we went through in the last Parliament, of bringing Bills at the wee hours of the night or getting extensions every now and then. This extension is not necessitated by Parliament, but by other bodies who have failed their mandate. This must come out very clearly even to the nation, as we ask our colleagues to be here on Tuesday, so that we can get the extension.
In fact, our own select committee, quite apart from the fact that it is provided for in our Standing Orders is clearly set out in the Sixth Schedule, Section 4 of the Constitution. It clearly provides that:- â4. There shall be a select committee of the National Assembly to be known as the Constitutional Implementation Oversight Committee which shall be responsible for overseeing the implementation of this Constitution and which, among other thingsâ ( a ) shall receive regular reports from the Commission on the Implementation of the Constitution on the implementation of this Constitution including reports concerningâ (i) the preparation of the legislation required by this Constitution and any challenges in that regardâ. For instance, our own CIOC should tell us what they have been told by the CIC has been the challenge in coming up with the legislation on media bill, for instance. This is because the last Bill which was enacted was done in the last Parliament. We are now in mid July and we
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I am not the Vice-Chair of that Committee. However, I wish that you give some directions on this issue. The Members, at the end of the day, will be seen not to have done their part and yet the problem is not even with our Committee but with the various stakeholders, the CIC and the Kenya Law Reform Commission. I plead with you that you give direction that our Committee should be able to report to this House so that we know where we are. This is a problem I know because I was in the Ministry of Justice in the previous Parliament. We keep on following those stakeholders and they do not do anything. Unless, you intervene, our very Committee of this House may also be held to ransom and will not be able to do anything.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, it is very important that you give direction that this Committee reports to the House and then we know where we are.
But are you suggesting that the Members of the Committee are not aware of their mandate that they require direction from time to time? Surely, what I have read out is in the Sixth Schedule of the Constitution. You should summon all those bodies including the Attorney-General and the Kenya Law Reform Commission. Out there, they are busy advertising and holding workshops. They are saying that they are going to court to do this or that. They are holding Parliament to ransom, and Parliament has to seek extension of time to allow them to bring the Bills they are supposed to have brought. Hon. Cheptumo, as a Member of that Committee please--- I can see hon. Pius Ababu Namwamba who was a Member of the previous Committee. Perhaps, he can shed some light. Yes, hon. Ababu.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, a name that I abandoned ages ago seems to cause a lot of excitement to the Chair.
No, the name is appearing on the machine. You have not abandoned it officially.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, when you mention that name, I can hardly recognise myself. However, on the more serious business or the mandate of this Committee, I had the privilege of serving on both Committees and on the Committee that negotiated the Constitution. I, therefore, understand that this Committee is the only committee that has direct express constitutional characterization because the Constitution expressly establishes it. Therefore, the mandate of this Committee is constitutional, is express and is unambiguous.
What hon. Cheptumo, with due respect, is asking you to do is to belabor the obvious which I believe is above. You did not belabor the obvious and certainly you did not reiterate what is already constitutional mandate. This Committee has the mandate and the authority to summon, give deadlines and set timelines for all bodies or agencies that have a constitutional responsibility in terms of the legislation set out in the Fifth Schedule of the Constitution. Therefore, you have done the correct thing to throw this ball right back to the court of the Committee. The Committee should go ahead and draw a framework within which it can task all agencies to fulfill the mandate required by the Constitution, without belaboring this any further.
I fully agree with you. We do not have to direct the obvious because the mandate is very clearly provided for, hon. Cheptumo. We do not want, as a House, to be called upon again to extend time because bodies which are subservient to a Committee of this House have failed to do what they must do. If I were you, I would be suggesting that there is a quick or an earlier meeting early next week.
Yes, Hon. (Eng.) Mahamud. Do not raise your hand because I can see you directly.
Very well. I think that is better. Sometimes next week you should sit and perhaps draw the attention to the fact that Parliament will seek to extend time to accommodate them. This is completely, in my view, inexcusable. There is no reason why they should not have brought those Bills even two or three months ago. By the time we assembled, those Bills ought to have been before the House because all of those bodies existed, other than Parliament.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, what also came out in the meeting is that we had already passed and approved the calendar of Parliament. The specific date we are talking about of 27th August will be when we will be away on recess. We had actually tasked the Chairman, Hon. Baiya and his deputy to engage your office and the Clerkâs office so that they also get the way forward.
As the hon. Member has rightly said, it is true. On two occasions, we called the CIC and the only tricky part was that they were not meeting with the Kenya Law Reform Commission. However, they had everything in a draft form and they wanted to pass it over to the Committee
But our calendar was published three months ago. So, everybody and anybody ought to have known that Parliament has proposed to go on recess effective 2nd August. If there are any deadlines, whether they fall in August, it is the responsibility of those Commissions or the bodies to have brought the laws before the House. I am sure that everybody would be writing a lot of things if it was this House which was causing these delays. But now that the ones causing the delays are in cahoots with those who have issues with the National Assembly, this story is not very important to them.
Anyway, the House will have an occasion to express it when the Procedural Motion is brought to the House. Do I assume that hon. Ms. Wahome is not going to talk about the same?
Yes, hon. Speaker and thank you. I think it would be a wrong assumption because I would like to just add value or comment, I sit in that Committee and I think it has not been very vibrant. Although I agree with hon. Mahamud that we have summoned the CIC twice, I think the presentations were not specific in terms of meeting the deadlines. But also there has been some frustration by the office of the Clerk; most Committees have been meeting in the corridors, they would schedule meetings â We have had two meetings removed from the schedules because of lack of space. So, I think also the facilitation by the office of the Clerk has also contributed to some slow movement in the work of the Committees. Some of us are still working from the streets because, as you are aware, we do not have offices. Also that is affecting the morale of hon. Members. Hon. Speaker, Sir, I think CIC is intending to seek extension of their life because they have been busy doing everything else other than meeting their constitutional deadlines. Therefore, it is the work of the Committee where I sit to crack the whip and in one way or the other, it has not done that adequately to bring the necessary Bills. But I will convey the sentiments and the direction of this House to the Chairman. Thank you.
I think the sentiments of the House are well expressed by hon. Members who have concluded. I am sure you will have every opportunity to discuss this matter about the work being done by those Commissions, when you debate the Procedural Motion to extend the period of their service. But I will only encourage that if you are working from the streets, be careful, there are people who like chaining themselves on the gates, make sure that you are not chained also.
Hon. Angatia, you had a statement which you wanted to make.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. Pursuant to Standing Order 44 (a), I rise to give a response to a statement requested by hon. Bishop Robert Mutemi, MP, from the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives. Hon. Speaker, Sir, on Thursday, 23rd May, 2013, the nominated hon. Member rose on the Floor of the House and requested the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives to issue a statement on the Agricultural Finance
On a point of order hon. Speaker, Sir. Thank you, I would want to request hon. Elmi to stop because he is the subject of my point of order.
Which hon. Member are you talking about?
Hon. Elmi is just about to leave. I wanted you to make a ruling. Hon. Speaker, Sir, I know under Standing Orders ladies are allowed to carry handbags into the House. I wanted to know whether that rule extends to both men and women because I can see hon. Elmi is carrying a handbag into the House. My second point of order is one where, in the last Parliament, I had requested and the Chair had undertaken to give a ruling which he did not. So, I will make the same request that the House adopts a procedure whereby if you have your former school in the House, you be allowed to recognize it. My old school, Limuru Girls High School is in the galleries and I would like to recognize it. Thank you.
The hon. Elmi, what is this that you are carrying?
Hon. Speaker, Sir, it is only my laptop that I am carrying.
You are carrying your laptop? You are merely trying to catch up with the digital era. Is that correct?
Hon. Speaker, Sir, because we have a guideline that claims to be digital, I was just trying to be digital. I am carrying this thing so that they know that CORD is also digital. Thank you Sir.
Was it inspected so that only your laptop is inside?
Hon. Speaker, Sir, it is only the laptop and those things that go with it, the Ipad.
Hon. Odhiambo-Mabona, you do not have to fear and do not worry. He is actually sitting right behind you. So, you are protected as he is not carrying anything harmful. Hon. Angatia you may proceed.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. The loan projection for the 2013/2014 was planned and lent out of the total of Kshs2 billion. The status report on performance of loan granted in period 2004 to date: the Corporation disbursed Kshs13.9 billion during the period under review and the funds were used to finance 60,228 farmers across the country. Status report on the performance of loans granted to the lower Eastern Region from 2000 to date; AFC serves the lower region through two branches, in Machakos and Wote Towns. In the period under review, the corporation disbursed a total of Kshs454 million in the form of loans in the region. Out of that amount, Kshs90 million is outstanding in arrears. This is a repayment rate of 76 per cent which is so considerable. The funds were used to finance 2,298 farmers and agro-entrepreneurs to undertake various projects that include coffee rehabilitation; livestock off-take activities; horticulture; small-scale dairy farming and cotton production processing. Hon. Speaker, with regard to update on the utilization of Kshs700 million released to AFC for drought relief, the Government released Kshs700 million to AFC during the year 2012/2013 being part of the Kshs2.1 billion awarded to the corporation by Parliament under the Ababu Namwamba Motion for drought relief. The award was intended to cushion the farmers and the corporation from the effect of drought which occurred in 2009 and 2010 resulting into inability by a number of farmers to repay the loans. The grant was meant to enable the corporation to implement debt suspension and compensation to the corporation. Hon. Speaker the policy statement and strategy for dealing with appeals for write off in future is as follows: I will begin with the consequence of the loan write off. Although the corporation recognizes that there are farmers who have been genuinely hit by drought and other natural calamities, the corporation is of the view that blanket write off of loan is not a viable option. The following reasons support that: Erosion of the corporationâs capital base; loss of support from donor partners; potential impact on funds from other Government agencies - you know that Kenya Sugar Board, Coffee Development Fund and Livestock Enterprise Fund give their loans through AFC - and creation of negative culture in the borrowing climate. The next one is the viable option out for rehabilitation of farmers facing debt repayment challenges. This includes restructuring of the debt as the normal commercial banks do; loan rescheduling; suspension of interest accruals; refinancing and debt suspension. In order to support the farmers who have been affected, the Government has recommended that it will increase the subsidies and give them insurance. Hon. Speaker, I would like to give a breakdown of the loan write off in 2004 according to counties. Trans Nzoia County, that is, Kitale, Kshs362 million; Eldoret, that is, Uasin Gishu, Kshs574 million; Kericho, Kshs12 million; Kakamega, Kshs91 million; Kisii, Kshs10 million; Kisumu, Kshs580 million; Migori, Kshs100 million; Molo under Nakuru County, Kshs108
How much long do you think that Statement is going to take?
Lastly, hon. Speaker before I table the document, I wish to mention the figures that were cleared. The total figure of the write off is Kshs1.871,548. There is no major beneficiary of this loan beyond Kshs5 million. Everything is between Kshs50,000 to Kshs4.9 million. Hon. Speaker, I beg to table the Report.
The Member who requested the Statement, I suppose has an occasion to go through these documents. Honestly, to be fair, you require time to go through this. If you think you want to seek clarification, you may go ahead and do so.
Hon. Speaker, I want to thank the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives for attempting to reply to my question. However, I would like to raise two concerns. Indeed, I will need time to interrogate the Report. As he was giving the breakdown county by county you realize that in lower Eastern it is only Machakos that benefitted. At the moment, the Kitui County farmers are being harassed. They are being threatened that their farms are going to be sold because of the said loans. They have been threatened that the police will be sent---
Did you have an opportunity to appear before the Committee when they summoned the Cabinet Secretary?
I am sorry I could not because I was in another Committee.
I will not allow you. If you failed to appear before the Committee--- Those questions you are raising would be best answered by the Cabinet Secretary and his officials, not by your colleague who is the Chairman of the Committee. That is the procedure we are going to adopt. So, when you make a request for a Statement, you must appear before that Committee so that you interrogate those people. If you never went to ask those questions there and you are now asking your colleague questions, it is like you are requiring him to again go and ask the Cabinet Secretary when you could very well yourself have appeared and asked those questions. So, please, Bishop you cannot tell me---
On a point of order, hon. Speaker. Hon. Speaker: I am the one speaking. You must be totally out of order. Read your Standing Orders! So, Bishop, I want to suggest to you to take time. Go through these documents. You are raising a very serious matter and so I want to be sympathetic to allow you to appear before the Committee when the Cabinet Secretary is present again. I appreciate that you are raising a serious issue, but please also avail yourself so that the people who have the answers and who could make the intervention you are seeking can then give you an undertaking that they will make the intervention you may want to pursue through the Committee Chairman. I am sure it will be a longer process for the Chairman to go and say that the Member has also requested that Kitui, Mwingi, Tseikuru and some other such like places be considered for write offs or whatever. So, Bishop Mutua, go through these documents; you have not gone through them properly. I am sure that you have not gone through them properly, so that you can prepare the questions that you may wish to put to the Cabinet Secretary. I will allow you an opportunity to go and prosecute the issue before the Committee when the Cabinet Secretary is present.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, for giving me the opportunity again. I will invite hon. Mutemi to attend the Committee session next Thursday. We will have both the Cabinet Secretaries for Agriculture and the Treasury. Since AFC is moving from the Ministry of Agriculture to the Treasury, he will have the opportunity to interrogate the two Cabinet Secretaries. Thank you, hon. Speaker.
Bishop, you can see that it is working out very well for you. So, it is up to you to avail yourself on Thursday. Even if you will be preaching somewhere, you must make sure that you attend the Committee session on that day. I know that you are a man of God and you may be willing to do something different. Yes, hon. Kenneth Odhiambo!
Thank you, hon. Speaker, for allowing me this quick intervention. I actually thought and felt strongly to rise in support of the point you have made. This matter has been coming up many times. I am very sensitive to it because we move Motions to urge the Government to do certain things yet we know that we are part of the Government, and an important branch of the Government for that matter. Therefore, we must do our job. The action is actually in the Committee sessions in this new dispensation. So, I call upon all Members of Parliament to take the Committees seriously. Hon. Members should show up and do business. Hon. Speaker, I would like to acknowledge the fact that the Departmental Committee on Lands is doing a very good job. I sought a Statement here in the recent past and, subsequently, attended a session of the Committee, to which the Cabinet Secretary was summoned to attend. I got the answers I needed and the process is now moving. So, please, let us take the Departmental Committees seriously. I stand here as a law maker. Outside this building, I am a law abiding citizen. When Parliamentary Committees sit, they have authority equivalent to that of the High Court of Kenya. So, please, do your job. If you summon people, please, show up.
Hon. Okoth, you are doing a good job but---
Hon. Speaker, they say they have heard it but they are not here. Some Committee Chairpersons do not show up!
Hon. Okoth, resume your seat.
Hon. Okoth, what you are doing is very useful but it would be more useful if you were debating a Committee Report. I am sure that your colleagues have heard you. They will take your advice.
Hon. Namwamba, would you like to make an intervention?
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I just wanted to stress the significance of this particular matter. As the Chairperson graciously did indicate, this matter arose out of a Motion I brought to the House in the last Parliament; out of the very grave concern that, in the absence of an effective insurance scheme for farmers and livestock keepers, any time we suffer any natural calamity like drought or floods, farmers and livestock keepers normally have very serious difficulties. Therefore, I just wanted to add that this session will not just be useful for the man of God but it will also be useful for any other hon. Member who, time allowing, will actually engage very robustly on the matter of how to effectively cushion our farmers, including livestock keepers, in circumstances such as these. This particular intervention was very specific, where we
Next is hon. Paul Koinange who had made a request for a Statement.
Hon. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order No.44(2)(c), I rise to request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Defence and Foreign Relations regarding efforts being made by the Government of Kenya towards facilitating trade and investment in the Republic of South Sudan for Kenyans. As we are aware, since South Sudan became a Republic, many individual Kenyans, firms and the Government of Kenya have invested heavily towards the re-construction of that country. Many Kenyans are involved in businesses while others are employed and working in the various sectors of the economy of that country. I would like the Chairperson of the Committee to inquire into and report to the House on the following:- (a) the level of business and professional investment by the Government of Kenya and Kenyans in the Republic of South Sudan; (b) efforts made by the Government of Kenya towards facilitating trade and investment by Kenyans in South Sudan; (c) progress on plans by the Governments of Kenya and South Sudan to construct an oil pipeline to Lamu, as agreed in 2002, and explain why it is taking so long for the project to be implemented; and, (d) the status of South Sudanâs membership to the East African Community, which would not only open up opportunities for the citizens of both countries but also for citizens of other member states of the Community.
Thank you, hon. Speaker.
Without much ado, the request is hereby referred to the Departmental Committee but I can see that the Chairperson is seated next to you, hon. Koinange.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I would request for not less than two weeks to respond to the request but that would put us squarely into the recess period. Therefore, I request that we respond to it immediately after the recess.
That is okay. There is no harm.
Yes, hon. Mary Emaase!
Hon. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order No.44 (2)(c), I rise to request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Administration and National Security on the state of victims of crime.
I am making this request against the background of rising insecurity across the country, including Teso South Constituency in Busia County, Bungoma County and, recently, Machakos County. Reports from the media indicate that most of those committing horrendous criminal activities are ex-offenders released from prison on completion of their jail terms or following presidential pardons.
Hon. Speaker, on 8th April, 2011, the then Vice-President and Minister for Home Affairs established a taskforce to look into means of guaranteeing safety to victims of crime and providing them with support services to secure the reparation of the harm caused to them. Therefore, in his Statement, the Chairperson should inquire into and report on the status of:- (i) the Draft Victims of Offences Bill; (ii) the Draft Bail Information and Supervision Bill; and, (iii) the Government policy on compensation of victims of crime. STATE OF EX-CONVICTS IN KENYA
Hon. Speaker, secondly, pursuant to Standing Order No.44 (2) (2), I would like to request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Administration and National Security on the state of ex-convicts in Kenya.
The previous Government had undertaken measures to enhance public safety and reduce incidences of repeat offences by ex-convicts.
Just a second, hon. Emaase. Hon. Millie Odhiambo has some intervention.
Hon. Speaker, I would like to give some information to the hon. Member.
Hon. Speaker, I allow her to inform me.
Is the information in regard to the first request or is it general information?
Hon. Speaker, it is in regard to the issue of victims of crime.
I want to inform the hon. Member that, in the last Parliament, I brought the Victims of Crimes Bill to this House which lapsed before we went on recess. I have since again requested the House, or Parliament, to reintroduce it and it is in the process of being reintroduced in the House. Thank you.
I stand guided hon. Speaker, Sir. I was on the second paragraph. The previous Government had undertaken measures to enhance public safety and reduce incidents of repeat offences by ex-convicts including appointing a 13 member task force on 13th August 2007 vide a Kenya Gazette Notice No.8238. In his Statement, the Chairperson should
Is the Chairperson in the Chamber? The deputy, if any? Any member of that Committee?
Hon. Speaker, I will take the report and hand it over to the committee but I am not able to commit myself on timeframe because we need to deliberate on the issue of security at length. So, we can tell her on Tuesday how far we have gone.
Members of committees from whom requests for Statements have been made, make sure that you take up the requests and inform and invite the members seeking those Statements, so that they can participate in the deliberations. Hon. Mary Emaase is that all right with you?
That is all right, hon. Speaker, Sir.
Very well. Hon. Florence Mwikali Mutua. ROLLING OUT OF SOCIAL WELFARE PROTECTION FUNDS
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I had a request for a Statement. Pursuant to Standing Order No.44(2)(c), I wish to request a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Labour and Social Welfare regarding the rolling out of the Social Welfare Protection Fund for orphans, senior people and persons with disability in the country.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, the Government has been implementing the Old Persons Cash Transfer Programme in a few areas in the country on a pilot basis. The Chairperson should inquire into and report to the House on the following:-
(i) the steps the Government is putting in place to immediately roll out the programme to all orphans, senior people and persons with disability in the country;
(ii) what the immediate plans are by the Government to move it from a pilot project to a fully-fledged project;
(iii) the criteria used to identify and screen beneficiaries and who is responsible in the identification of the same at the grassroots level; and,
(iv) steps the Government has put in place to ensure transparency and accountability in the identification of beneficiaries and implementation of the programme in the country. Thank you hon. Speaker, Sir. I table the Statement.
Hon. Gladys Nyasuna.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. In the absence of our Chair and Vice- Chair, I will undertake to take this report to our Committee and we will need three weeks, in my estimation. I, therefore, think this will come immediately after the recess.
Well, likewise, make sure that you invite the Member to your meeting.
Yes, hon. Dr. Robert Pukose.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. Pursuant to Standing Order No.44(2)(c), I wish to request a Statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Delegated Legislation regarding the degazettment of Government land. The Government reacquired some land in the former Rift Valley Province from a private developer and allocated it to members of the Cholim Cooperative Society. The Kenya Forest Service (KFS) later evicted these people from the land, claiming to have gazetted it as part of the Mount Elgon Forest for afforestation. Hon. Speaker, Sir, the Chairperson of the Committee should inquire into and report to this House on:
(a) the situation surrounding the degazettment of the land already occupied by members of Cholim Cooperative Society;
(b) the status of this issue; and,
(c) whether the Government will compensate these farmers for suffering and the loss caused by the forceful evictions. Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir.
Chairperson of the Committee on Delegated Legislation, hon. William Cheptumo? It looks like there is nobody from that Committee even to give a response. Hon. Jacob Waweru.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I am a member of the Committee on Delegated Legislation, and I would like to say that I will take this request for a Statement to our committee; in my own estimation we should be able to give it in two weeks time. That is after the recess. Thank you.
So, hon. Pukose appear before the Committee in two weeks. Next on the order list is hon. Peter Kinyua. You did not carry your card? PROGRESS ON CCTV CAMERAS PROJECT
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. You must forgive me for that. Pursuant to Standing Order No.44(2)(c), I wish to request a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security on the progress of the closed circuit television (CCTV) cameras that were scheduled to be installed by February 2013 by the former Ministry of Nairobi Metropolitan Development. Hon. Speaker, Sir, in the light of the heightened insecurity around the country, it is imperative that this project takes off as soon as possible. Installation of these cameras will help the police to retrieve images of criminals, arrest perpetrators of crime and secure conviction in court. In his Statement, the Chairperson should inquire into and report on:-
(i) the progress of the installation of the CCTV cameras;
(ii) the reasons that have occasioned the delay in the installation of the CCTV cameras in the major cities. Hon. Speaker, Sir, I think it is also important to appreciate my constituents who, through a similar system, have volunteered and we have managed to arrest criminals using cameras installed by individuals behind Karatina Kenya Commercial Bank (KCB); this has occasioned the request for this Statement. Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir.
Anybody from the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security? Yes, hon. Wanjiku Muhia.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. In the absence of the Chair again, we have asked the Inspector-General (IG) the same questions. So, this time I will be able to respond and I think we shall give a full report two weeks after the recess.
Very well. The hon. Richard Momoima.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. Pursuant to Standing Order No.44(2)(c), I wish to request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Transport, Public Works and Housing regarding the funds for road construction within our constituencies which was being funded through the Kenya Revenue Authority. I am aware that through the Division of Revenue Bill, 2013, money included for road construction had been forwarded to county governments and I had sought to find out the status and the position of these funds. But with the very able and immediate response from the Leader of Majority Party and the support of the Chairman of this Committee, this matter has been overtaken by events with a circular issued by the Cabinet Secretary, Eng. Michael S.M. Kamau vide reference No.MRA3545/B/vol.4 where all money which previously was to be used by the Members of Parliament for the construction of roads in their constituencies has been returned to the Members. I wish to express my gratitude. I am proud that this will help us to continue to provide services to our people in our constituencies.
Information for the entire country!
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. Pursuant to Standing Order No.44(2)(c), I wish to request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental on Lands regarding the encroachment of the Kenya Agricultural Research Institute (KARI) in Naivasha. This land has been illegally occupied by a group of pastoralists known as Isahakia Self Help Group. The High Court in Nakuru has issued four court orders for this group to vacate the public land, but no action has ever been taken by the Provincial Administration or the police to assist KARI to retain its land. This is of concern as there may be other Government institutions that are facing the same challenge. The Chairperson should inquire into and report to this House on:- (i) The status of the occupation of this KARI land and the Government effort in ensuring that the land is reverted to KARI.
The Chairperson, hon. Mwiru or any Member from that Committee to take up the request.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, the Committee is currently overloaded by a lot of requests. As you know, we have to do a good job and land is a sensitive issue. So, we will be looking at this issue within a maximum of three months. Three months will be sufficient.
Hon. Aramat, the Committee is overloaded. What is your reaction?
Hon. Speaker, Sir, the Committee has many Members and they can delegate responsibility. The KARI is a very important institution in this country which has to develop technologies in livestock production. This land has been occupied by people and animals are dying, as I speak. There is no grazing land for the animals and the Government is losing a lot
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I said a maximum of three months. The land will not move. It will still be there. So, we require a maximum of three months. If we finish in two months, it will be fine, but we will not go beyond three months. It requires looking at the past records at the Lands Registry and getting a lot of information. We cannot promise to take three weeks. We will take a maximum of three months and I am speaking for the Chairman.
Can I say cleverly put, maximum three months? They are not limiting. They could even give you a response within two hours, but maximum, three months. But, hon. Aramat, I think the most important thing is that you should make available your request to the Committee, so that as they plan their activities, they have you in mind also as one of the issues that they need to address. Hon. Kangâata, again you have thrown your card away? We will very soon deactivate all machines for Members who come without cards so that you will not use the Dispatch Box, but today, since we are about to go on recess, you can proceed.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. Pursuant to Standing Order No.44(2)(c), I hereby request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental on Education, Research and Technology regarding the status of loan disbursement to regular students in public universities by the Higher Education Loans Board (HELB) for the last four years. There have been several incidents of less fortunate students in the regular programmes in public universities experiencing delays in disbursement of loans, especially those in the first year. We also have situations where the less fortunate students have had their applications rejected by the HELB without any justification notwithstanding the increase of the rate of the recovery of loans granted to former students. Public universities will be opening in August and September and if these students do not get the loans on time, they will be coming to the Parliamentarians to pressure us to give them bursaries under the CDF. Therefore, we should pressurize HELB to explain to us through the Statement that I am requesting as to why they fail to give students loans prior to joining universities. I, kindly request for that Statement.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I kindly ask the Member to give me two weeks and then I can respond to that.
Hon. Irungu, is that okay?
Hon. Speaker, it is okay.
Pressure is also going to come to the Chair of the Committee. She also represents people, unlike others who represent corporate.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. Pursuant to Standing Order No.44(2)(c), I wish to request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental on Administration and
Hon. Wanjiku Muhia, represent your Committee.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, by virtue of representing the Chairman three times, I am almost the Chair. I kindly request the Member to visit our Committee on Tuesday at 10.00 a.m. at Continental House because the matter is weighty and we may need more details. After that, we will deliberate on it. I urge the hon. Member to kindly join us at 10.00 a.m. on that date.
Thank you. You have even imagined that by now you are almost the Chair.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. The Member for Changamwe had requested a Statement from my Departmental Committee on Energy, Communication and Information on the issue of Kenya Petroleum Refinery Ltd., and we were due to give the Statement today. However, I want to request for your indulgence that we have had some emerging issues which the hon. Member is well aware of. We are requesting an additional one week to finalise this issue and report appropriately to the House.
On the same token, if you allow me, I would like to inform hon. Members that on Monday at 2.30 p.m., my Committee will be meeting three Cabinet Secretaries; one for the National Treasury, Devolution and Planning and Energy and Petroleum to explain why there has been diversion of Kshs6 billion from the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) to the county governments. If hon. Members are free, they are welcome to attend.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I have actually worked very closely with the Departmental Committee on Energy, Communication and Information. I was involved in all the stages and I am very satisfied that the Committee is doing a good job. I rise in this House this afternoon to commend the Chairman and his Committee Members. Therefore, I accept their request for one more week so that the report will be one that hon. Members will be happy about.
Thank you very much, hon. Speaker, Sir.
Well, hon. Kamau and his Committee Members will take the praise and accolades. Is there any hon. Member whose request for a Statement has not been responded to and may have been due?
Yes, hon. George Oner, the overworked Member!
Hon. Speaker, Sir, over two months ago, I requested for a Statement on police reforms and I was told that the Joint Committee on--- What was that Committee called?
Yes, it was the Committee on National Cohesion. I do not know whether the Committee has already been formed but the Majority Leader should tell us because he was the one who responded at that time. He said that they were going to form the Committee after two weeks and then it would issue the Statement after two weeks. Up to now, there is no Statement and there is no information on whether the Committee was formed or not. Could the Majority Leader tell us what is happening?
Hon. Speaker, Sir, the name of that Committee is the âJoint Committee on National Cohesion and Equal Opportunityâ. The National Assembly membership is ready and we are waiting for the other guys to give us their names so that we do the elections.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, we are waiting for the Senate to provide the list. The Committee will be formed once that is done. Hon. Sakaja is one of the serious contenders for the chairmanship of that Committee. I am sure he will address all the hon. Memberâs issues once he becomes the Chair of that Committee.
So, we have to wait for the 67 Members to agree when to nominate Members to sit in that Committee. You will realize that they are very few. There might be very many Committees and, therefore, they may be struggling to find who will sit in this Committee. However, whatever the reason, we have communicated to them that they should give names of the Members so that the Committee can start working.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. Did you notice the Leader of Majority Party take the powers of a Committee to choose its leadership and pronounce hon. Sakaja to be the Chair of a Committee that is yet to be formed? Hon. Speaker, Sir, I request you to take these people for some training. However, that is on a light touch.
I have risen because hon. Onyonka alluded to a letter from the Ministry assuring hon. Members that our constituency roads money shall be reversed. Could the leader of that Committee tell us when we will get our money? I am just from a âfuneralâ of a senior member of my constituency and the biggest concern is how the body will get home tomorrow. This is because somebody somewhere is playing around with the roads money across the country. Could somebody tell these Members when they will get that money because they have an interest? Some of that money is actually from the other financial year. Could the Chairman of the Committee tell us that because we have not seen the letter? How would a Member of Parliament access a letter from a Cabinet Secretary? We need an explanation.
You have said that you have come from a funeral and people are wondering how people will reach home. I am wondering, were you really at a funeral or you had a funeral service?
I was in a funeral service, hon. Speaker, Sir.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. It is true that we have seen a letter which was written by the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and Infrastructure. Hon. Members will agree with me that the letter has come as a result of a lot of pressure. We will have the last meeting on Tuesday, 23rd. I want to assure hon. Members who are here that we will get our money. We have agreed that the money for the Kenya Rural Roads Authority (KERRA) will be there. We are just waiting to have a meeting on Tuesday, 23rd July, 2013, with Mr. Rotich, the Cabinet Secretary for National Treasury, so that we can finalize this matter. Are you satisfied?
That one satisfies the hon. Jakoyo Midiwo and others. But I have also noticed that hon. Millie Odhiambo has something.
Yes. Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I know because of this digital era, sometimes our points of order get a bit mixed. I hope you will indulge me because my issue was a matter raised by the Leader of Majority Party. But I know that in the last Parliament, the Committee on Equal Opportunity was pushed by the women hon. Members, but when it came through the men took both the chairmanship and the vice-chairmanship. I have seen hon. Sakaja in private to request him for once to be magnanimous and give the women their due position. I know hon. Tobiko is seeking the same chairmanship, so could we just let hon. Tobiko chair that Committee, hon. Speaker?
May I direct that we should not do any canvassing here because majority of the hon. Members here are not hon. Members for that Committee. So, whoever it is that takes the chairmanship is the hon. Member for this House. He could actually be from either House. Please, it is not even contentious.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, if you may allow me to respond, first of all, I do not know why hon. Midiwo is pretending. He has been my chief campaign manager on this particular matter. But the real issue of the Committee, I do not think the Leader of Majority Party is trying to impose--- I have just learnt that he is supporting. The real issue has been one name from this House, not from the Senate. The Senate brought 15 names and the National Assembly had 14 names. There is one name that was coming from CORD, which we still want the CORD leadership to expedite because the Committee on National Cohesion and Equal Opportunity is very important. There are many matters that need to be dealt with and already, I can see the in- try is full. So, if the name can be brought to the Floor of the House even on Tuesday, we can pass it. As for what hon. Millie-Odhiambo was asking, I think the hon. Members are at liberty to decide who the leader of the Committee is, but you must realize that the Committee on National Cohesion and Equal Opportunity not only advances the issues of women, but also the issues of young people and marginalized communities and of course you know I come from a marginalized community.
You are young as well!
And I am also young.
So, people will decide.
We can now go to business. This is to do with Statements. It is important that you begin to appreciate that you may think you want to raise an issue but begin to argue.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I have not been contributing because my card got lost and I suspected that there was tendency and culture from a certain section of this House, which is fond of doing those things. I wanted to get the report from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Environment and Natural Resources. They had even asked a question here on TARDA three weeks ago.
You are only comfortable with the acronym.
That is it, hon. Speaker. Tana, Athi and other abbreviations.
Now that you do not know what it is, then nobody should respond.
The Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Environment and Natural Resources was to give me the answer within two weeks, and it is now three weeks.
No answer! No answer! It is just a report.
Yes, hon. Speaker, Sir. It is a report.
In fact, I am directing that no debate on those reports is going to be entertained because that is not business. You should appear before that Committee, when they have summoned whoever it is and from wherever the responses are going to come from so that the House will only receive a report which it will not discuss. We are spending time doing things which are not business. You may have an interest and legitimate one for that matter, but the best place to go and canvass it really is before the Committee. I really appreciate that not all the Committees may be televised and, therefore, people may miss the opportunity to be seen to be prosecuting a particular point in plenary, but this is the cost of this change; the new dispensation. That is the only way we can proceed so that the plenary becomes a place where we come to do real oversight, representation and legislative work. If you have not appeared before the Committee, hon. Simba Arati, I would suggest that you---
I have, hon. Speaker, Sir.
All right. Is there any hon. Member from the Departmental Committee on Environment and Natural Resources present; the hon. Amina Abdalla, the Chair?
Hon. Oner is here!
Hon. Oner again? Then I agree that you are overworked.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, the Leader of Majority Party should again talk about that issue on Sarah Serem because actually we are working. Hon. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member appeared before the Committee. I am a member of the Committee and we invited various people; the former Permanent Secretary, Regional Development was before us and even the Managing Director (MD) who was suspended and other board members. We have a report which we have agreed on as a Committee and I hope it will soon be tabled before House. Thank you.
I think I have even seen the report and I approved it for publication. I suggest the report be tabled through the Clerkâs office. Hon. Mithika Linturi, the Floor is yours.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I also want to bring it to your attention that a month ago I sought a Ministerial Statement from the Chair, Budget and Appropriations Committee in regard to the underfunding of the Office of the Auditor-General. To date, it has not been brought. I am sure every hon. Member of this House will agree with me that, with the new dispensation, the Office of the Auditor-General is very critical for the support that it gives to this House. With its expanded mandate, where it is really supposed to be looking at the operations of the county Government, there was need to give him money, which was not given. So, I had sought to know how the Auditor-General is expected to do his duty without enough funds. I would appreciate if you gave directions on when this can be done because it is really a matter of national interest.
Let us have the Chair of the Budget and Appropriations Committee, hon. Mutava Musyimi.
He is not here!
Then the Vice-chairman can respond, or any Member present. Hon. Abdikadir Aden, go ahead.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I speak on behalf of the Chair of Budget and Appropriations Committee. We were actually in a day-long sitting. I want to say that on that point, it is something that has been taken as a matter of priority and concern by that Committee. I want to assure hon. Linturi that this particular issue is having due attention and concern it deserves. Unfortunately, there is nothing that can be done right now. But in the Supplementary Budget, there could be something coming that way. I will take your concerns to the Chair as well. I must say that this issue has been noted by the Committee and it is an agenda of concern on our desk. Thank you, hon. Speaker.
There is another intervention by Florence Kajuju.
Hon. Speaker, there is an issue of national importance that I think should be addressed as soon as possible by the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology whom I am seated next to and when she tried to respond to me, she did not convince me. Hon. Speaker, yesterday we got information that the teachersâ strike was called off. However, before that there was a directive by the Cabinet Secretary for Education that all public schools be closed. I have been getting a lot of inquiries from my constituents. They want to know what the status is in as far as matters of education are concerned. Up to now, we have not received any information as to whether the schools remain closed or they are opened. It has already been declared that the teachersâ strike is off. Allow me, hon. Speaker, to get a response.
The Chairperson of the Departmental Committee may respond.
Hon. Speaker, I agree with hon. Kajuju that the matter is of national interest. It is true that the schools were closed yesterday and immediately the teachers called off the strike. The explanation given by the Cabinet Secretary and circulated in the media is that the Ministry needs to restructure the term because students have already lost 24 days. Remember kids were out of school during the general election. My Committee could summon the Cabinet Secretary so that he tells us how long the Ministry is planning to close the schools. I kindly ask hon. Kajuju to hold on until I confirm with the Ministry tomorrow. They will give us a concrete answer.
Hon. Speaker, I am seeking intervention following the intimation given by a Member of the Budget and Appropriations Committee. The indication we are getting is that the Committee is reviewing those departments with limited funding. I request the Committee to consider the office of the Registrar of Political Parties with the statutory limitations and the restrictions that we have. That when considering all these underfunded departments we consider also compliance to the law in terms of the minimum funding required for the office of the Registrar of Political Parties.
Yes, but in keeping with our procedures I will not allow him to respond because this matter has just come up now. It is like people meeting on the streets and then shaking hands. It has not come through the correct route, hon. Kaluma. I understand your concern. This matter has been discussed elsewhere, but I am sure you could raise it more formerly with the Budget and Appropriations Committee. We are through with the Statements. Next Order, please.
Hon. Members, this is a very short Bill, with only two clauses. We have various amendments, which we shall now proceed to prosecute and execute. We have amendments from hon. Samuel Chepkonga and hon. Benjamin Washiali. Therefore, let us start with Clause 2.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 2 of the Bill be amended by:- Deleting the word âtwelveâ and substituting therefor the words âtwenty fourâ.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, when this Bill was being discussed yesterday, we were ably reminded by hon. Kaluma that one of the reasons as to why âThe Donde Actâ because unconstitutional is because it lapsed with time. Therefore, the purpose of this extension is to ensure that this Act does not die in a similar manner. It is a requirement of the Constitution that, in order for regulations made by Cabinet Secretaries to enjoy the force of law, they must be approved by the House. So, the Cabinet Secretary requires more time for him to come up with reasonable regulations.
As we are all aware, the Cabinet Secretary is fairly new in the Ministry. In order for him to be able to come up with regulations and administrative actions that will survive scrutiny, he should be given more time. He needs to come up with regulations that will be both efficient and effective, so that he can implement the Act in a way that will be beneficial to all the farmers.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, with those remarks, I beg to move and ask the Leader of Majority Party to second it.
Hon. Chepkonga, we are in Committee. So, the Motion needs no seconding.
Hon. Members, I want us to be together on this matter, so that you can catch up with the gist of the amendment. What hon. Chepkonga is trying to do by this amendment is to increase the effective period of the principal Act from six months to 18 months. That is the period within which the Act should come into force.
Yes, Leader of Majority Party.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, yesterday, when this amendment Bill was being debated, hon. Members realised that the problem was much bigger than the operationalisation of the Act. We want to look at the entire AFA Act. Initially, it was âALFA Billâ but when we amended it and excluded the livestock sector from it, it became the AFA Bill, which subsequently became the AFA Act. We want the Committee to have a period of one year to look at the entire Act and deal with all the stakeholders. Therefore, I support hon. Chepkongaâs amendment.
Let me go back to my requests list, so that we can have some order. Hon. Mildred Akoth Odhiambo, are you seeking to speak to this amendment? Please, proceed.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. I stand to oppose the amendment. I am a Member of the Committee on Agriculture. We even had discussions with the Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture. As a Committee, we all agreed, including the Chairperson, that six months is sufficient for us to look at the weighty issues and decide whether to propose a complete repeal of the Act or propose amendments to it. Proposing a longer period is actually tying the hands of the Committee. As a Committee, we will be forced to stop operations for 12 months. Why do you not give us six months, so that even as a Committee, we can know under what regime we will be operating? Leaving us in limbo for one year is really paralysing our work. Therefore, I would like to, very strongly, oppose the amendment and urge our Chairperson to speak to this issue. As a Committee, we have agreed on this issue.
Let me hear the Chairperson of the Committee on Agriculture. Where are you?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, the Cabinet Secretary appeared before the Committee on 11th July, 2013 and said that he was ready to operationalise the Act but he required an extension of only three months from the commencement date. However, we noted that the regulations were not yet in place, the directors had not yet been elected, the Chief Executive of the Authority had not yet been appointed, and that the chairman of the Authority was yet to be nominated and approved by Parliament. Therefore, as a Committee, we decided to give him six months. I think the Committee will stand by that decision. Thank you.
Hon. Members, we have heard from the Committee. Let us have some more discussions on the amendment.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, if we give these people another one year, we will not be able to measure their performance. Therefore, I support what the Chairman has said. Let us give them six months because when the President assented to the Bill, there was already a co-ordinating team in place in the Ministry. If we give them so much time, we will not be able to measure their performance. I quite agree with the Chairman. If the Committee met with the Cabinet Secretary and he agreed that he would do it within six months, let us give them six months. The Cabinet Secretary and his technical team are working under the directions of performance contracting. If we give them more than six months, at the end of the day---
Okay, the point is home, hon. Wanyonyi. Yes, hon. Washiali!
Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. I am also a Member of the Committee on Agriculture. The idea being floated by our Chairman---
Just a minute, hon. Washiali. Hon. Konchella, are you serious that you are requesting for an intervention or you passed your hand over the request button by mistake?
It was by mistake, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman.
Okay, please, proceed, hon. Washiali.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. The idea being floated by hon. Chepkonga was also floated during the deliberations of the Committee on Agriculture. The Committee has 29 Members. We debated the proposals and agreed that the most appropriate period would be six months, as per the Act itself. The Act had given---
Hon. Langat, let hon. Washiali develop his point before we hear your point of order. Let us understand the gist of his submissions. Proceed, hon. Washiali.
Thank you, hon. Chairman for that protection. The period I had been given to ask the ASCU was six months, as per the Act. We thought that by giving the ASCU that period, it would be long enough. If we extended that beyond the six months, then they will again go back to sleep like they did last time. I think the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives is proactive and it would like to see things moving. Therefore, I oppose the amendment by hon. Chepkonga. We should carry on the amendment as it is on the Order Paper.
All right Members. Thank you. You see, we do not want to make this a point of serious debate. We really want to have consensus on these issues as fast as we can get. You see the direction that the Committee is taking, but you also hear the responses of Members. So, when you rise to speak, please, let us help each other so that we do not take too long on this subject. But you see, hon. Serut, do not carry up your hands again. I am able to see you from here. You are an independent Member and so, I need to recognize you.
Thank you Chair. What I would like to inform Members is that the originator of the six months extension is the Cabinet Secretary himself. I am a Member of the
On a point of order hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir.
Who is that? Hon. Chepkonga, before you are able to articulate your Standing Orders, show me under which order you are rising, and show me the substance of that order. That is before I think something is out of order.
Hon. Chairman, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No.83, as read together with Standing Order No.107. That is with regard to giving correct information.
So, you want to give him correct information? Has he given incorrect information?
Is he in order to say that the Cabinet Secretary only gave information in the Committee and he has not given any other information thereafter? I am aware that the Leader of Majority Party has received information. The Cabinet Secretary is saying that he is comfortable with 24 months. Thank you.
There are so many here. Order! Let me appreciate a few things. First of all, I want to appreciate hon. Chepkonga for citing the Standing Order under which he has risen. This is how we are going to conduct business in this House. You are able to take us to the order under which you rise and show us the substance of your order. Otherwise, most of us are rising on points of order, when they just want to ventilate on issues. A few things have come up. Yes, Leader of the Majority Party.
The Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, with regard to procedure, the issue at hand is the Committee of the whole House. Hon. Members know very well that when we are in the Committee of the whole House, whether you are Member of the Committee or not, you are allowed to bring an amendment.
Secondly, the issue of a Cabinet Secretary is neither here nor there. That should not be the matter for this House. Any amendment should be debated and then the Chair should put the Question and it is either carried or not. I know that the amendments belong to the Committee, but the moment it becomes a matter of a Committee of the whole House---
Leader of Majority Party, I get the procedure. You have given the procedure. Any Member has a right to introduce an amendment which is correct. So, on that point of order that hon. Chepkonga has given, hon. Serut you can now finish your submissions. Would you, please, make a request? There you go. We want to finish within one hour.
Thank you. All I was trying to do was to respond to the issue that hon. Chepkonga had raised. He said that the Leader of Majority Party had received communication from the Cabinet Secretary. I had to put the record straight. The Cabinet Secretary was the originator of the six months. As a Committee, we agreed that we will endorse the six months extension, giving it a total of 12 months.
Hon. Chair, if the Cabinet Secretary is uncomfortable with this particular Act being in place within six months, he can bring an amendment.
Thank you, hon. Member. You are an independent Member and so, you get symphathies of the Speaker. Now, hon. Langat, are you on a point of order or are you making a request to contribute? I can see you are on both. Which is which?
Earlier on, I wanted to speak to the Bill, but now, when the issue of procedure came---
So, why do you not speak to the Bill and leave the sideshows?
First of all, I want to tell this House that we are discussing the amendment by hon. Chepkonga. You know, what the Committee has tabled maybe came from the Cabinet Secretary. We do not know where they got it from. What I know now is that this House has power to amend, agree or disagree on any Committeeâs report. We have done it before. A Committeeâs report has come before this House and it has been amended here. Therefore, it is not right for us to be told: âBecause the Cabinet Secretary said six months, it is enough we must be bound by that.â I want to tell the House that yesterday, when the debate and issues came before this House, we were unanimous that there are serious issues on the Act and, therefore--- I am urging Members so that we can get time to deal with the issues that have arisen. Let us extend time as proposed by hon. Chepkonga. We respect the Committee.
Thank you. Hon. Chepkonga, I see you are on an intervention. Do you want to declare your intervention?
On a point of order hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir. I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No.83. I am being intimidated by the Chairman of the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives here, but it is okay. This is on a serious matter. The Chair of the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives, who happens to be my neighbour here, has purportedly convinced me.
He has a very good reputation.
I totally agree with the Chair. You know, of course, I had a very important point. He tells me: âLet us give them six months, but we know that they will need to extend the six months.â He agrees that in terms of practicability, it will not be possible. But in the interest of time and so that we can move forward, I withdraw this amendment. That is also because of good neighbourliness.
All right. Do I understand you? Can you speak to the HANSARD and clearly say what you are withdrawing or not? Just make a request if you do not mind.
Thank you. I have formally withdrawn pursuant to the persuasion by the Chair of the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives. He has undertaken to come back to us.
All right, hon. Members, that being the case, there is no amendment to Clause 2 and, therefore, I will put the Question.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chair. I beg to move:-
Hon. Savula, I hope you have been attentive to what is going on. Members, when you are consulting hon. Savula, give him time to follow the proceedings.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, the short title of the Act is âAgriculture, Fisheries and Food Authority Act, 2013â.
What was the gist of your submission, hon. Savula? I have not heard you properly, please.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, the original Bill was reading âThe Agriculture, Fisheries and Food Authority Act, 2013, but I think when they were printing, they forgot and said âThe Agriculture, Fisheries Food (Amendment) Bill, 2013.â That is the only thing. The old Bill had the word âAuthorityâ.
All right, Members, I think you now understand where we are going. Any other discussion?
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. I beg to move:- THAT, the long title be amended by inserting the word âAuthorityâ immediately after the word âFoodâ and before the word âActâ.
Again, this is just a harmless amendment for the Bill to be consistent with the Act as the title was in the original Act.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I want to support that amendment, but we all agree that this is a bad law. We are only doing this, so that we can come back to this House and repeal this Act.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I rise to support the amendment and acknowledge the sentiments which were raised by hon. Members yesterday that this Act has some serious shortcomings. We want to assure this House that within the next six months, after the extension, we are going to come forth and make all the necessary amendments to repeal or even abolish the Act all together if at all that will be in the interest of Members.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I rise to support the amendment as moved.
Please, speak to the microphone. I understand you are as tall as you are senior. So, just speak to the microphone though.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I support the amendment.
Members, I have a request from a lady. Let us have a ladyâs voice here. Hon. (Ms.) Munene!
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I rise to support the amendment. I am a Member of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries and when we are given time, we will come back to this House with a full report and hon. Members will be happy.
Those of us who are having discussions on the Act as a whole can hold on and come back when the Act comes for real amendments. Here, we are just trying to get this out of the way.
Hon. Members, we have now completed the business of the Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Amendment) Bill, 2013 in the Committee. I now request hon. Angatia to report.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move that the Committee doth report to the House its consideration of the Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Amendment) Bill, 2013, and its approval thereof with amendments.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that a Committee of the whole House has considered the Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Amendment) Bill, 2013 and approved the same with amendments.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House doth agree with the Committee in the said Report.
Hon. Members, you are free to contribute but it should be as minimal as possible because we still have the Third Reading.
Put the question!
Is that unanimous?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Amendment) Bill, 2013 be now read the Third Time.
Hon. Members, you can ventilate on this. I can see some requests. Yes, Leader of Majority Party.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I will be very brief because I contributed to this Bill yesterday. This is a very fundamental Bill. In my appeal, it is very unconstitutional. That is why this Bill was called âAlFAâ. Those of us who come from the livestock producing areas and were in the last Parliament removed the aspect of livestock. Today, it is called âAFA Act, 2013â. I urge the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives, in the interest of Kenyan farmers, to make use of the six months window. If they feel that they can bring an amendment because they feel that this Bill is unconstitutional, then they should do that within this period. We do not want another extension. We will not give another extension after six months. You have six months to tell us, as a country or as Parliament, whether this Bill is constitutional and whether it meets the interest of Kenyan farmers. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Bill. I reiterate the fact that it needs to be looked at given the importance of the agriculture sector in this country. We cannot afford to come up with a Bill or an Authority that may have some ambiguity or problems in terms of implementation and then, at the end of the day, we cripple a very important sector that employs very many people. Many industries rely on agriculture. So, we have to look at it in terms of efficiency, effectiveness and how best it will serve the interests of Kenyan farmers. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also support this Bill. However, we are creating an Authority through this Act. That is three-quarters of the Cabinet Secretaryâs job. We have a Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and yet, we have an Authority that wants to control three-quarters of the functions that he is supposed to control. Which is this Authority that will be dealing with sugar, coffee, pyrethrum, cotton na kila kitu ? The Authority is
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I think it has already been said that Members who were in the Tenth Parliament like the Leader of Majority Party had an opportunity to remove livestock. We also want to be given an opportunity within the six months to remove agriculture and, maybe, leave the fisheries and food.
I am saying this because Nakuru County, as you know---
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Let us get things right. Under which Standing Order are you rising? We have to start going that direction very strictly.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand guided but an anomaly has been made in this House and you can see it.
That is perfectly in order. You will have an opportunity once you tell us the particular Standing Order you are proceeding on so that we can make a good ruling on it.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am unable to point it out but I know that an anomaly has been committed.
You can execute your point of order now.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I remember it is Standing Order No.107. Is Hon. Gikaria, who is my good friend, in order to make this House look like it is separating issues and say that people who are in charge of livestock have their own cake and other people who have their fish have it? Is this not the National Assembly where every aspect has to be considered irrespective of whether you are a fish, livestock, coffee or tea farmer? Is the hon. Member in order to do that?
That is okay, hon. Onyancha. You have cited Standing Order No.107. Are you sure that hon. Gikaria---
I really do not want to proceed in that direction. However, this is for hon. Members to understand. We want anybody who rises on a point of order to cite a specific section of our Standing Orders that has been flouted and then we can be able to execute it properly. But I had given hon. Onyancha some leeway. So, hon. Gikaria, proceed. I will not ask you to respond to hon. Onyanchaâs point of order.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I just want to say that the pyrethrum industry has collapsed and we want to use this opportunity to revive it. If I heard it right yesterday when this Bill was being debated, we were told that it was rushed so that it could meet the constitutional deadline for passing some of the Bills. That is why we got a little bit worried. We will have an opportunity to look into the actual Act and give an input within six months. I rise to support.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also want to support this amendment. We had a lengthy debate on the Bill yesterday and we thought that it must be amended. As it was alluded to by many hon. Members, especially those from the Tenth Parliament, I feel that we should have given it more time. However, because the Cabinet Secretary had said that he or she will do it in six months, let us wait. We will also look at it since the Tenth Parliament managed to remove livestock from this Bill. I do not see how fisheries can be managed the same way agriculture is managed. That is because every crop or aspect of agriculture has different management problems. So, lumping them together is killing those which are not in---
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
You are out of order. Proceed, hon. Iringo.
Thank you for your protection, hon. Temporary Speaker, Sir. There are those crops that are grown in large areas and those that are grown in marginal areas. There are some which do not have a big market. At the end of the day, they are forgotten. Pyrethrum and sisal are among the dying industries, which cannot be compared with tea and coffee, which are very vibrant. As I said, in the process, once this amendment is done, we are going to incorporate
in the same, so that it can also be protected by those other agricultural products.
Thank you and I support.
Thank you hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also rise to support the debate on the Bill. This Bill deals with a very wide sector of this economy. Therefore, it is important there is adequate time given for the debate. Secondly, it is quite constitutional that we need to have time for public participation. Therefore, I support.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I just want to seek your guidance. I know you are aware that majority of us are new and it is good for us to get the procedures right as much we are learning. At this stage, it is not a debating stage. If you could kindly guide the House that the comments are limited to almost one sentence or a line; so that the House gets it right from the beginning.
What hon. Millie Odhiambo is raising is perfectly in order. Well, only that you did not proceed the way we had agreed. We must cite those specific Standing Orders that are faulted, but obviously, yours is a very genuine point of order. Really, we do not need to take a lot of time here. But I have not seen hon. Members who have discussed this debate at length. They have just been making short statements. This is the Third Reading and everybody would have to know that. So, I think it is a perfect thing and it is good for learning. You have made your point, hon. Millie-Odhiambo.
Thank you hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am a Member of the Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives Committee and I would like to take this opportunity to thank hon. Members who have passed the extension and I hope it is going to assist us to ventilate
Thank you hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also want to echo the sentiments of hon. Serut that, as a Committee, we really acknowledge and appreciate the extension accorded to this particular Bill. We want to assure this House that immediately this Bill is assented to by His Excellency the President, the Committee will be able to take it up so that we can engage all the major stakeholders to ensure that all the issues which have been raised by hon. Members, especially that we cannot mix pyrethrum which is a poison with sugar, are taken care of. Those are very serious sentiments and we need to separate the poisonous crops like pyrethrum from sugarcane.
I beg to support.
I am giving this chance to hon. Anyanga T.A. Hon. Members will realize the Chair is trying to give opportunities to as many hon. Members as possible, but that is for a good reason.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for this opportunity. I rise to add my voice to this debate in support of the amendments. For me, what this tells us as a House is that, we now have an opportunity to make laws that we shall not regret tomorrow. If you look at some of the challenges we are faced with, it is because of the manner in which certain Bills were passed in the last Parliament which, today, are coming to haunt us. A good Bill or a good law that we have in mind is the current Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) 2013. So, in terms of looking at what we need to do in the agriculture sector, hon. Members have raised their concerns and I do add my voice that we need to give a closer look at the issues raised so that, as we develop the Agriculture Bill 2013, we take into considerations all the key issues. Finally, on the globe, countries are moving towards specialization. It will be very sad if Kenya, as country, we are trying to address food insecurity and unemployment and we are actually killing institutions that will offer that kind of opportunities and trying to lump all agricultural products under one body. I do not think that will drive us towards competitiveness. I beg to support and thank you.
Thank you hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. In as much as I would like to support the amendments that have come, I think the Committee will have quite a task going ahead as this Bill is being processed to actually convince hon. Members; even as they listen to stakeholders as to the reasoning behind some parts of this Bill. It, indeed, does not make sense to consolidate the laws and regulations in the agriculture sector by creating an authority that almost rivals the Ministry itself; an authority that brings together different sub-sectors in agriculture when we are trying to move into specialization. The Committee should really convince us as to where the place of efficiency and specialization is on this. We would also like to hear the way forward on what the motivation was in removing the livestock sector the Leader of Majority Party has been speaking about here. Unless that is done, we will oppose this Bill. Really, it looks like we are only adding levels of bureaucracy and red tape in the agriculture sector and bringing together sub-sectors that have nothing whatsoever to do with each other. We have seen what certain parastatals specializing in different areas, whether it is coffee, tea or pyrethrum have been able to do in developing agriculture and different sub-sectors. So, in the absence of that and with the hope that by that time we shall be convinced, I support.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this chance. I rise to support the amendments. I just want to remind the Committee Chairman, hon. Angatia, who is my very good friend that agriculture forms the backbone of our economy and if at all we attain the double digit economic growth the Jubilee Government promised us, there will be less bureaucracy in running agriculture and more allocation of resources so that the agro-based industries will lift this country to the next level of development. I support these amendments although I am against the bureaucracy and amalgamation of parastatals. Parts of lower Eastern Province, that is, Machakos, Makueni and Kitui have been left out. When we talk about livestock and agriculture, those areas are normally left out. We normally concentrate on North Eastern Province. When we talk of ASAL areas, we are also left out. A time has come when we are going to oppose some of these Bills. The Ministry of Agriculture should take this matter seriously. When the Jubilee Government says that it will irrigate 1 million acres - and which we support - we know that River Tana, Athi River and other very big rivers pass through Ukambani. That is where we have land to irrigate, but when it comes to the allocation of resources to build major dams, the whole of Eastern Province is left out. The Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives should look at this anomaly. If we really want to be food secure, we have to concentrate on lower Eastern. It is neither in Central nor North Eastern Province. We grow a bit of cotton and coffee. We also keep livestock. So, we have something to talk about. But when it comes to allocations, we are given nothing. I support.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker; I totally sympathize with the Leader of the overwhelming Minority that they keep growing a bit of it. I think the Jubilee Government has a very good manifesto. If he had read it, they would not be growing just a bit of it. I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No.95. There is consensus in the House and the Leader of Minority Party agrees that he also supports it. Could I be in order to ask the Mover be called upon to reply?
Is the Mover present? I do not think we will go that direction. Again, in the absence of the Mover, the best thing will be to put the Question.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Before I move the Bill, I want to report progress pursuant to Standing Order No.127 (5) regarding the Report that should accompany this Bill from my Committee. We are working on the Report. The Bill came to us together with many other Bills including the VAT Bill, which has attracted a lot of public interest and participation. I will table the Report before next week. I am ready now to move the Bill. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the Capital Markets (Amendment) Bill be now read a Second Time. This Bill, as the title indicates, seeks to bring amendments to the Capital Markets Act. We know that our capital markets have grown tremendously in the last ten years. I want to thank our immediate former President for giving our capital markets freedom to trade at that time. In the last ten years, many Kenyans have come to know about the capital markets. They never used to know them because they were operating in a very secretive manner. In those ten years, Kenyans participated in the processes by investing in shares, for example, KenGen and Safaricom. Kenyans now have a clear understanding about capital markets. This country can only develop if we have an efficient capital market, where those who are in need of money for investment can go and source the same and those who have money to invest can make it available; a market in which people will have a lot of confidence because it is well regulated. The last ten years have brought about serious challenges, requiring the Capital Markets Authority (CMA) to address them. I talk of challenges and opportunities because challenges come together with opportunities.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, some emerging issues have made it necessary that amendments are made. One of them is that our commercial activities are increasingly becoming global. We are trading with many countries. We want US Dollars and they want Kenya Shillings. So, there is a new matter that this Bill seeks to introduce. It seeks to bring a framework for future market, which is a new concept. I want to thank CMA for being proactive so that before this matter picks up, they will already have introduced the framework. More than a year ago, this House constituted a select committee to deal with the depreciation of the Kenya Shilling. During that time, the local currency depreciated from an exchange rate of about Kshs70 to the US Dollar to Kshs90, which subsequently appreciated and stabilised at about Kshs80 to the US Dollar. Those are the challenges that investors face.
If we had a market similar to that being proposed by this Bill, called âthe futures marketâ, it would be possible for an investor who, for example, would need some US Dollars eight
Hon. Regina Muia, I can see that you have made an intervention for a point of order. What could be out of order? Please, remember that we are now moving in the direction of hon. Members having to state exactly under what Standing Order they rise.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I rise under Standing Order No.83, which says that any hon. Member may raise a point of order any time during the speech of another hon. Member, indicating the Standing Order upon which the point of order is based. In this case, I would like to refer the House to Standing Order No.173, which says that, unless otherwise provided by any written law or the Standing Orders, the Committee on Selection shall, in consultation with the parliamentary parties, nominate Members who shall serve on a Select Committee.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, as I stand here, I am a very worried hon. Member. For the last seven weeks, some of the hon. Members seated here have not sat in any Committee. I am a Member of the Eleventh Parliament. I am a Member of a political party. Previously, I used to sit in the Committee on Administration and National Security. In mid-May, 2013, I made a request to be moved to the Committee responsible for energy because the Committee also caters for communication and information. I am a Member of Parliament from the area where Konza City is located. So, an agreement was made but since 26th May, 2013, I have not sat in any Committee. I am just wondering whether I am a Member of this House or not.
Hon. (Ms.) Muia, I am very sympathetic, considering the industry with which you have searched the Standing Orders and stated the Standing Order under which you rise but, listening to your contribution, you sound irrelevant to the issue at hand. It is for that reason that I will rule you out of order. However, you need to have an engagement with the party whips because, as you rightly said, under Standing Order No.173, every hon. Member of this House is entitled to sit in at least one Committee. So, you are out of order, in respect of the issues that you have agitated but, please, start engaging the whips.
Hon. Langat, I hope that you are back to where you were before that intervention. I am sorry about that. Can you, please, proceed?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I sympathise with the hon. Member. The Leader of Majority Party is here. He can offer her a Committee from the other side.
Proceed, Leader of Majority Party.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. First, I want to say that it is very very sad that the House is empty when we are discussing a very important financial related Bill. The Capital Markets Act, Chapter 485A of the Laws of Kenya is what we are amending. We are amending it so that we get a more reformed regulatory body. Why do we want to amend, before I go to the section? A lot of recommendations will always come from the Committee and Members of Parliament.
From the outset, it is very sad that the CMA has no substantive Chief Executive Officer (CEO) for over eight to nine months. In fact, it is a year. It is very very sad. The former Minister for Finance, the hon. Robinson Githae was given three names by the board and he decided to go home with those names. It is very very sad and he lost the elections. We even do not know those three names but I hope the new Cabinet Secretary of the National Treasury should fast track and give this institution a substantive CEO.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, the amendments are mainly geared to improve the regulatory aspect of it. Secondly, the amendments are geared to promote Kenya as an investment destination choice. We cannot talk of promoting investments both domestic and international if we are not going to amend and reform our CMA.
Finally, one of the reasons why I think we have amendments to the CMA Bill 2013 is to create an environment for the mobilisation of long term resources so as to finance capital projects. We are talking of Vision 2030 and for us to mobilise long term resources then we have no choice. These amendments in my opinion will mobilise resources for major projects.
The Leader of the Majority Party, just allow me to correct you, amendments must have the notification of the Speaker, although that notification should come 12 hours to the time the Member wants to put them across.
Hon. Grace Millie Odhiambo, you are the voice of gender .
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for recognizing that I am the voice of gender, but it is not gender because gender is both men and women, but I am the voice of the women and also the voice of the people of Mbita.
I wanted to talk to the Leader of Majority Party, so if you could indulge me before he goes away. What I wanted to tell him has implications on his going away, but as he was speaking, he was raising concerns that are very important Bills before the House. He was concerned that many Members are not available to see. I do not think he understands the meaning of the majority leader. I have raised it before with him that if he cannot do that task, he should let me sit on that Chair because ideally, I should be sitting on that Chair before he used the digital method to force himself on that Chair.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, having said that, I want to say that I support the amendments. The Majority Leader should, in consultation with the Legal Department know that when he has substantive amendments to a Bill, he should bring a complete repeal of the Bill and not come up with piecemeal amendments because it becomes very difficult to make references and substantive contributions on that Bill.
For example, there are some issues that I wanted to make references to but I could not get this Bill online or in the library. This is because there are very many amendments. I know that the Bill makes reference to the sections that we are seeking to amend. However, those sections have implications to other sections of the law. So, when you have these substantive amendments, you need to overhaul the Act.
I would like to say that it is important for us to bring some level of development in the CMA and to keep in touch and be in tandem with international development and standards.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to urge caution that there is a level of excitement with the technological world. As a country that is still trying to introduce laptops to Class One pupils and teachers who have absolutely no knowledge of the technological world, we need to be very cautious on our excitement with digitalizing.
We are a country that needs to digitalize but also remember that more than half of the population is analogue because they do not even know how to read and write. So, we must be alive to that fact. Even as we move slowly to digitalize, we must be aware that we are in a country that is very analogue. I am both analogue and very digital and I am very proud. I do not want to pretend to be digital and, therefore, unaware of the communities that we represent. We do not fish using computer but we fish using our hands. That is very analogue.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also want to say that I am very happy that this Bill seeks to regulate and bring order and consistence in this sector which is good for investment. At the same time, we should ensure that we reform our governance sector because if it is not
Thank you hon. Odhiambo-Mabona. At the end of the day, do you support the Bill or do you oppose it? Could you speak to the HANSARD?
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. When I started my contribution, I said that I support. I support the Bill.
The Chairperson of the Departmental Committee, can you liaise with the Clerkâs Office so that you can provide Members with copies of the Act because this is a very substantial amendment so that Members can follow? This will enable us to debate this Bill when we understand it. I am sure that if you talk to the consumers where this Bill is coming from, you will provide every Member here with a copy of that Act so that we can contribute intelligently. That is food for thought.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I would like to advise Hon. Odhiambo-Mabona that life is moving and technology is here with us.
I direct the people handling these microphones to give the Speaker the microphone at any given time. Hon. Sakaja, do not advise a Member. Please contribute to the National Assembly of Kenya.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am at liberty to advise but I will not. I will just mention because she has spoken---
Please, you are at liberty to discuss the issue on the Floor.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, she is willing, but I stand advised by the Chair.
But, I will still mention the things she has mentioned because she has mentioned them with respect to this Bill.
That is perfectly in order.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, technology is here with us, and one of the most exciting things about this is that we are catching up with the rest of the world even in introducing a futures market which has been in the US from the 1850s and this is 2013. When hon. Millie-Odhiambo or any hon. Members keeps telling us to slow down with respect to technology, we are really worried. Not even half of Kenya is analogue; maybe, politically. But in terms of the young people in this country, who are the majority, they understand what technology can do to improve the lives of many. That is why we are excited; in any case, she is asking where she can find the Bill. It is online! The Kenya Law Reports or www.kenyalawreports.org, you can get the Act; the mother Act is there online. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to acknowledge the fact that the CMA has in the last ten years performed exceptionally well, despite the challenges they have had. We have seen the growth of the Capital Markets in this country which has even created millionaires, like hon. Dennis Waweru here; who naturally would not have had an opportunity to make certain gains in traditional markets. Of course, hon. Dennis Waweru, that is on a light touch. But really, it has given opportunities to so many Kenyans; with whatever they have, they have come and participated in IPOs, they are trading in the stock exchange and indeed, it has even contributed to raising funds for very noble projects and development programmes in this country. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I must also acknowledge that for a long time, this institution was headed by a young lady who was below the age of 35 years. This shows that,
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
I am ignoring that point of order because it is disturbing my tune of thought. The futures exchange in Chicago really transformed agriculture in the US. At that time what they would trade mostly in was agricultural products. Today, the largest futures exchange in the world is in the national stock exchange or India and Mumbai, followed by the JAC in South Africa. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, indeed, introducing this futures exchange is in line with what Millie-Odhiambo was asking and we can explain what it is.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, could you kindly deal with this hon. Member who is disturbing me.
Proceed, hon. Sakaja!
The futures exchange is where you can set a price for a commodity or a good that you want to purchase in the future by agreeing on a price now; especially in industries where there is large or high fluctuation of prices. This shields those who engage in it. For example, I can say that I want to buy oil in the next ten years at this price, knowing that market or rather the price might be much high then, and I lock it at that price. Then you go into options. But I think for now we will stick into matters of futures exchange. So, it is something that is radically transformative. I would like to actually note that in the year 2009 or 2010, if I am not wrong, His Excellency, Uhuru Kenyatta, actually hinted and mentioned the formation or the setting up of futures exchange. This, indeed, is part of the promises that he made even before he was President, and I must applaud him for that. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, one other thing about this Bill because now we just talk about the general principles, is that it provides alternative structures for capital rising, including securitization. The Chair will realize that for us to achieve Vision 2030 in this country, it is important that we look at Domestic Resource Mobilization (DRM) as avenues for raising capital that we need. If we look at the traditional sources of capital that can be raised even for this Government projects, it will be impossible for us to achieve Vision 2030. But what the Bill gives us is alternative sources of capital rising. To this end, the Bill expands the horizon from the traditional issuance of long term bonds to well packaged financial instruments such as the Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS). Overall, the Bill provides a very clear framework for securitization of transactions. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also heard a Member asking where the mischief is because they are not understanding how we are creating the futures market. The Bill is clearing a distinction between the stock markets and the futures markets. That is why in some cases you can see that futures are being removed from that definition because they must be dealt with separately as an exchange on its own. So, that is why that is being done.
Thank you so much, hon. Sakaja. Hon. Waweru, you are next on line, but allow me to recognize hon. Anyanga A.T., so that we have divergence of opinions on this Bill.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support the Bill. In so doing I want to recognize the fact that the reforms we are carrying out in the capital markets are part of the wider reforms that we should see taking place in the financial sector of this country. However, we know that in order to grow this economy we need to be looking at how the service industry is developed. Indeed, under the economic pillar of the Vision 2030 one of the key sectors focused on in order to drive this economy is the financial services sector. In order to grow this sector
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I support the Bill. I would like to tell hon. Millie Odhiambo that at this rate she should be able to sell fish from her constituency in
Thank you, hon. Waweru. Next is hon. Kenneth Odhiambo Okoth. We have about six more minutes to go. Hon. Okoth, you have ten minutes but we can only spend the next six minutes. Are you able to share those minutes equitably with your colleague, hon. Junet Sheikh Nuh, who would want to say something about this Bill? So, if you can take three minutes, hon. Junet can take three minutes as well. Please, proceed.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support the Bill and echo the point that hon. Millie Odhiambo had suggested in terms of procedure when we have so many substantial changes. The spirit and the direction in which we are going to digitalise and revolutionise the economy and making business systems in this country is all good. We might help and actually do a whole new Bill and repeal the old one. Be that as it may, I want to support the Bill.
Hon. Okoth, do you want information from hon. Sakaja?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I have re-considered my position. I do not want information from him. I want action. The matter is---
Thank you very much, Member for Kibra.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, my six minutes are not yet over.
Did you not want to share them with your colleague, hon. Junet?
Hon. Junet, please, the children of Migori are out of school. How do you feel about that and how can we invest in fantastic practical financial futures market that we cannot justify?
Member for Kibra, I appreciate that you have good discussions but, please, let us see how they relate to the Bill before the House. Let the children, their education and all those good things relate to the Bill we are discussing. Hon. Junet, you have three to four minutes to say the last word before the House rises.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker; it is only that two minutes were wasted by the hon. Member for Kibra on issues that are not related to this Bill. He needs to read the Standing Orders. It is true that the children have problems but this is not the right time to talk about them. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I stand to support the Bill since it is going to make changes in the financial sector of this country. If there is a segment of the financial sector that is mysterious in this country, it is the securities exchange. It is a segment which operates like a cartel. Since Independence, many people have been trying to join the securities exchange. Even getting a seat on the Board is like vying for the presidency of this country. I stand to be corrected if I am wrong, but that is how I see it.
Order, hon. Okoth! You cannot just cross the Floor anyhow. Could you, please, go to the Bar and do the necessary before crossing to the other side to talk to your colleague? You do not just walk across anyhow. Come back this other way.
Thank you. You are now at liberty to leave the Chambers.
Can you finish, hon. Junet?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, the hon. Member is representing Kibra, a place where there is no law and order, except flying toilets.
I am sure you want to withdraw that one, hon. Junet.
No, there are flying toilets at night!
Hon. Junet, there was law and order in Kibra the last time I checked.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, it is okay. There is law and order. I withdraw that bit but there are flying toilets in Kibra at night.
To continue with my contribution, a securities exchange is a place where people can develop their lives financially. People think that investing in land in this country is the main thing. If people had diverted their attention from land and invested in securities, they would have done much better than the way it is today in this country. It is the duty of the Government to teach its citizens on investment destinations. It is up to the Government to teach the citizens that the securities exchange is a good place to invest, and that it is a place which can give one high returns on his investments. This Bill is even going further to make the securities exchange better that it is today. If you want to know that the securities exchange in this country is like a cartel, you should note that for the last one year, the Government could not employ the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of the CMA. We have been having an acting CEO because the stakeholders in that sector cannot agree on which person to run the place.
Hon. Members, it is now time for interruption of our business. The House is, therefore, adjourned until Tuesday, 23rd July, 2013 at 2.30 p.m.
The House rose 6.30 p.m.