Hon. Members, my attention has been drawn to misleading media reports regarding the status of the Mining Bill, 2014, which was passed by the National Assembly on 29th October, 2014. Hon. Members, you will recall that this House made numerous amendments to the Bill, most of which originated from the Departmental Committee as well as from individual Members. Following the passage of any Bill, the Clerk of the National Assembly normally enters all the amendments before forwarding it to the Speaker. Therefore, I want to state that, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order 152, the Mining Bill (National Assembly Bill No.9 of 2014) is still in the custody of the National Assembly; it has not been forwarded to the President or any other institution as it has been alleged. Thank you. Yes, Leader of Majority Party.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I thank you for your very timely guidance. The matter that the media has picked up from our colleagues in the Senate is in bad taste and I need to make a few clarifications. Firstly, as you said, the Mining Bill was passed on 29th October, 2014 with several Committee amendments adopted during the Committee Stage. The process of certifying those amendments by the Clerk of the National Assembly is underway. The Bill has not yet been submitted to the President for assent. The rush to the media by our colleagues even before consulting the Speaker of the National Assembly and its leadership premeditates a scheme being well orchestrated by the Senate to discredit the National Assembly. Secondly, I would like to make it very clear to the House that there are a number of Bills which have been passed by the National Assembly and submitted to the Senate as The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
required by the Constitution but many months down the line, the Senate has not finalised their consideration. They are:- (i) The Fertilizers and Animal Foodstuffs (Amendment) Bill, which was passed on 19th June, 2014. (ii) The Public Procurement and Disposal (Amendment) Bill, which was sponsored by hon. Sakaja and passed by this House on 24th April, 2014. (iii) The Statute Law (Miscellaneous Amendments) Bill, which was passed by this House on 23rd July, 2014. (iv)The Division of Revenue Bill, 2014, which was passed on 24th July, 2014. Hon. Deputy Speaker, these are Bills which were moved and passed by Members of this House but which, nine months down the line, the Senate is yet to dispose of. I also want to make it very clear that under Article 109(5) of the Constitution, all money Bills ought to originate from the National Assembly. That is why the Attorney- General of the Republic of Kenya, in compliance with the Constitution, forwards Government Bills – which are mostly money Bills – to the National Assembly for origination. I want to make it very clear that the Attorney-General is not involved at all in determining whether a Bill concerns county governments as envisaged in Article 110(3). So, the Attorney-General is not the final determiner. The final determiners are the Speakers of the two Houses of Parliament, as provided for under Article 110(3) of the Constitution. Hon. Deputy Speaker, on the other hand, the Senate has flagrantly abused the Constitution by publishing and considering several Bills which are clearly money Bills. The Constitution requires that money Bills originate from the National Assembly, but the Senate went ahead to publish money Bills, in spite of prior notification by the National Assembly for them not to originate such Bills, and thereby breaching Article 109(5) of the Constitution. Since I would not want to be seen to be blowing hot air, I would like to give examples of money Bills published by the Senate as follows:- (i) The County Hall of Fame Bill, 2014 (ii) The National Resources (Benefit Sharing) Bill, 2014 (iii) The Intergovernmental Relations (Amendment) Bill, 2014 (iv) The Office of the County Attorney Bill, 2014 (v) The Public Fundraising Appeals Bill, 2014 (vi) The County Industrial Development Bill, 2014 (vii) The National Government Co-ordination (Amendment) Bill, 2014 (viii) The County Retirement Scheme Bill, 2014 All these are money Bills and, therefore, ought to have originated from the National Assembly. The same Senate that is accusing the Speaker of the National Assembly is violating the Constitution because all the Bills that I have read out are money Bills as per Article 109(5). The Senate has also gone ahead to publish and consider Bills which, clearly, do not concern the counties, and thereby breaching Article 109(3) of the Constitution, which requires that Bills not concerning the counties be considered and passed by the National Assembly only. Bills which ought to be passed by the National Assembly only, but which are now before the Senate, include:- (i) The Universities (Amendment) Bill, 2014 The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
(ii) The Parliamentary Powers and Privileges Bill, (iii) The Political Parties (Amendment) Bill, 2014 (iv)The National Youth Service (Amendment) Bill, 2014 (v) The Parliamentary Service (Amendment) Bill, 2014 (vi) The National Honours (Amendment) Bill, 2014 (vii) The National Flag, Emblems and Names (Amendment) Bill, 2014 Hon. Deputy Speaker, the Senate has, therefore, on numerous occasions---
Order! Order, hon. Members! The consultations are too loud!
Hon. Deputy Speaker, the Senate has, on numerous occasions, proceeded to publish and consider Bills in instances where there has been very clear disagreement between the two Speakers as to whether the Bills concern county governments or they are money Bills. Therefore, in my opinion and in the opinion of this House, the Senate should be the last House to regard itself a saint. The Senate should portray the National Assembly in proper light. They are the main proponents of defiance. The attempt by the Senate to hire external lawyers to file a case in court is yet another scheme by the Senators to not only reward their cronies but to also defraud the public of colossal sums of money as the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC) has already employed competent advocates who are capable of seeking appropriate orders from any court. We must make this very clear to the PSC and our Speaker, who is the Chair: The Eleventh Parliament has a serious team of lawyers in the Litigation Department; they are experts. We are warning the PSC not to hire lawyers from outside Parliament. The Senate wants to go to court, so that they can pay their cronies in the legal profession. It is the Senate’s right to go to court, but they must use the Litigation Department of the Eleventh Parliament. Hon. Deputy Speaker, I have given a list of money Bills which ought to have originated from this House and in respect of which the Senate decided to violate the Constitution. The Mining Bill is still within Parliament. We have a serious leadership of Parliament. The Office of the Speaker of the National Assembly and that of the Speaker of the Senate are barely 10 metres apart. The leadership of the National Assembly and that of the Senate are in the same building. Why should we use the media and the courts to solve disputes which have already been anticipated and adequately addressed by the Constitution? I want to make it very clear that as per Article 110(3), it is not the work of the Attorney-General to determine which Bill is a county Bill. The responsible organ is provided for in the Constitution. It is, therefore, good to make it very clear to the country that the so-called “upper House” should not be crying every now and then. They have fought many battles. They have fought the Council of Governors, the Judiciary and the Supreme Court. They are the ones who were vilifying the Judiciary only the other day. Today, they want to take us to the same Judiciary. They cannot have their cake and eat it. Therefore, the Senate should, first, sort out their issues with the Council of Governors and the Judiciary. When it comes to us, let us sit down together as the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
leadership of both Houses and refer to the Constitution. We are ready to sit down with them. Regarding the Bills that have been passed by the National Assembly, could they use their time well and complete them – especially those on fertilizers, public procurement and disposal, intergovernmental relations, and the Statute Law (Miscellaneous Amendments) Bill? Hon. Deputy Speaker, mine was just to make the matters clear but the Chair of the PSC, who is the Speaker of the National Assembly, and the membership of this House must make sure that no external lawyers are hired to represent either House of Parliament. That is the message I want to send to the Senate. Our Litigation Department can take care of such matters.
Leader of Majority Party, you have made your point. Yes, hon. Olago Aluoch!
Hon. Deputy Speaker, firstly, I thank you for the clarification that you made on the issue of the Mining Bill. Your language was very temperate but through that Communication, you were very clear that the belligerence demonstrated by the Senate is based on nothing but false pretences. It is clear now that the Senate is opening war fronts on all sides. They are at war with the Council of Governors; they are opening a war with the National Assembly; they are opening another war with the Judiciary and even with the Presidency. Who are they going to leave out? Secondly, I thank the Leader of Majority Party for the clarification that he has made on the Bills which are pending at the Senate, the delay of which they have not even explained. Fundamentally, we must put the blame at the foot of the Speakers of both Houses. We have within the law, a provision for mediation. I do not see why the Senate must retreat to Mombasa and issue threats from there when the issue can be resolved here. If we go on like this, we will become the laughing stock of Kenyans. The time has come for this House to show the way to the Senate – that they are doing it the wrong way. If they are so idle that all they can do is look for fights, Kenyans should know. The threats that they issued in Mombasa are clearly based on wrong principles. Hon. Deputy Speaker, during the last Parliament, I had the privilege of serving as a PSC Commissioner. During that period, we set up a Litigation Department, which has some of the best lawyers in this country. So, if there is need to revert to the courts to resolve the conflict, then we must do so using the lawyers employed by the PSC, and not lawyers to be hired from outside Parliament. If that happens, we will move together as Parliament, because the Constitution defines “parliament” as the National Assembly and the Senate. Given the way they are moving, a time has come for us to show the two Speakers that they must sit down together and resolve these conflicts. Thank you.
Yes, hon. Samuel Chepkong’a.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I thank you for the clarification. I also want to thank the Leader of Majority Party for being very clear on some of these matters, which appear not to be very clear to the Senate. Parts 1 and 2 of the Fourth Schedule to the Constitution set out what belongs to the national Government and what belongs to the county governments, respectively. If the Senate could just address itself to the issues they need to legislate on, under Part 2 of The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
the Fourth Schedule, they would appreciate that the Mining Bill does not fall within their jurisdiction. I have just been looking at Part 2 of the Fourth Schedule to the Constitution. It is not sufficient for them to just go to Mombasa and mislead the media that the Mining Bill belongs to them. They have not quoted any part of the Constitution to prove that claim. Kenyans have not given them that mandate. The Senators have a mistaken belief that we are in a vertical relationship with them. Our relationship with the Senate is horizontal. So, the mistaken belief that there is something called “higher House” and “lower House” does not exist in the Constitution. Hon. Deputy Speaker, I read somewhere where they have said that they have run out of patience, and I thought they should have said that they have run out of business and ideas. It cannot be that they have run out of patience with people who have no problem with them. There is nothing to be patient about us. We are doing what we are expected to do under the Constitution. Secondly, the mismanagement on the part of the Senate cannot be attributed to the National Assembly. We cannot accept. If they have mismanaged their relationship with the Executive, the county assemblies and the governors, that cannot be blamed on the National Assembly. Neither would we wish that to be imported nor exported to us. We are neither exporters nor importers of their mismanagement. So, let it be known to the Senate that we are steadfast in following the Constitution, and that we have not erred in any way. The fact that you are a lawyer does not make your position legal, if you just stand in front of television cameras and make claims without quoting any part of Constitution. Let them point the exact parts of the Constitution that have been breached. Thirdly, nobody should be denied a chance to go to court. It is their right to go to court and ventilate the matter there. In any event, they are fighting the courts. I do not know why they are going there. They should save their breath and time and deal with us here because at least we have some time for them. The courts have no time for them. So, they should restrict their bad habits to Parliament; they should not take them to the courts. Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker.
Members, we have a long list of 21 Members. So, I do not think that we need to ventilate on this too long. The Leader of Minority Party, have the Floor.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker for giving me this chance. I want to echo my support to the sentiments of my colleagues and especially the Leader of Majority Party who has made it very clear. While I was seated here, I was wondering why the belligerence. Why is the Senate fighting everybody? It is not the National Assembly alone.
Order, order hon. Members!
It is not the National Assembly alone. There is the Council of Governors, the Judiciary, the National Assembly and by and large the Executive. Why fight everybody when you cannot win? My advice is: Let the Speaker of the National Assembly and the Speaker of the Senate sit together with the leadership from both Houses and sort out this problem. Kenya faces a lot of problems. When we see the Senate fighting in the media, Kenyans will not understand. They face the problems of unemployment, insecurity and poverty.
I want to support the idea that if the Senate feels they have to go to court, let them The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
use the lawyers that we have. We have good lawyers and we do not have to spend money hiring private lawyers. However, before that level is reached, I urge the Speaker of the National Assembly to take the initiative. He should invite the Speaker of the Senate and they can sit over a cup of tea. I am sure they will break the ice and we will move forward.
This is a problem that can be solved. When we promulgated the Constitution, we all agreed that 20 per cent was not good. We decided to pass it and review it afterwards and correct the 20 per cent. Could it be that time has come for us to ask ourselves whether we need the Senate? It is duplicating what the National Assembly is doing. I am surprised that they have formed Committees parallel to what we have in the National Assembly. We have to do soul searching and come to a conclusion. Even if it requires a referendum, we can ask Kenyans whether we need the Senate. It is a burden to this country. We are wasting taxpayers’ money by paying for the same service. People know that the National Assembly is the body that is recognized world over. There is a part that should be reviewed in the Constitution of Kenya, 2010 to determine whether there is need to retain the Senate. I am sure most Kenyans will say that we should dissolve the Senate. Let us have the National Assembly and move on.
I want to end by sending my condolences to Myles Munroe who had an accident in Bahamas. This is a man who touched many Christians.
Order, order Members! The consultations are high Members.
I want to send my personal condolences to the family, to the people of Bahamas and Christians world over. I also want to send my condolences to the former Member for Limuru, hon. Kuria Kanyingi. He used to speak his mind and through his generous contributions, he built many churches and schools. I also want to send my condolences to the people of Limuru.
Finally, I want to send my condolences to the people who lost their children in Baringo, Turkana and Pokot through the clashes. Many people have been touched. This is a very touching issue. People have buried their loved ones and are still burying them. This is something that we should consider as a House to see how we can address the issue of insecurity, especially between the Turkanas and the Pokots. These can spill over and spread everywhere. Let us take it seriously. With those few remarks, I support.
Hon. Amina Abdalla! Hon. Members, that should be really sufficient. Feel represented, so that we can move on with the business of today.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. I wish to welcome your message regarding the Mining Bill and the misconception created by the Senate. This House amended 111 clauses of the Mining Bill in five hours, forty five minutes. There is no way you would expect that Bill would be finalized and the Vellum made available to the President to assent. The Senators, in their fight for relevance might have targeted the Mining Bill because of the vast interest in the Bill without looking at their facts that the Bill has no yet reached the President. By you telling them the same, it was very useful.
However, I want us to appreciate that when the Mining Bill came to the House, it The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
did not concern counties. With the 111 amendments, I believe there may be some clauses that might require discussions in the Senate, but that does not mean that we should yield to these, in my opinion, very reckless remarks. I sometimes get very worried and wonder whether education sometimes is not a waste when it is taken to certain levels. The Leader of Majority Party and the Leader of Minority Party are lawyers. How can they appear on television and issue ultimatums to the President to bring back the Bill in 14 days? I will tell the President to remove the clause on revenue sharing and bring it back so that we pass it. It does not need to go to the Senate. If they are mature enough, they would request us to engage and look at the Bill. But if they are unable to deal with the Bill on fertilisers, would they be able to deal with the Mining Bill? On a serious note, this is a matter that has already been devolved.
Another issue that is really troubling me is that the Senate, the governors and everybody who has issues with the national Government talks about benefits sharing. I never hear any of them speaking of cost- sharing or getting that benefit that they want to share. In fact, in my area, they have produced two Bills on revenue sharing on the natural resource sector. We have told them to go ahead. If they bring it here, we will deal with it. Why are they impatient; they want to go to court all the time? They went to court, they got an opinion. Did it give them any more powers? They need to invest their money instead of going to court and holding all these workshops that they are holding in Mombasa to deal with the constitutional mandate that they were given, which they are not doing. Have you ever heard of any Bill on early childhood education from the Senate? All you see are these glamorous things like universities, which are not in their mandate.
I want to urge my colleagues in the Senate, if I am asked, or if the President accepts all the amendments we have put in place, there may be merit if this Bill goes to the Senate. However, the way they are behaving, I would advise the President to remove the clause on benefit sharing so that it does not involve counties. Then we can see what they will do in the next few weeks.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker.
Hon. Members, please feel represented by those hon. Members who have ventilated. You can then allow us to move to the next Order because sentiments have been expressed.
I am dissenting, hon. Deputy Speaker.
If you are dissenting, it better be a dissent hon. Kaluma.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. I am gratified by what has been said by the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Environment and Natural Resources. The mandate of the Senate is set out in Article 96 of the Constitution, particularly Sub-Article (1) and (2) which state:- “The Senate represents the counties, and serves to protect the interests of the counties and their governments.”
Hon. Deputy Speaker, we should question whether the minerals we mine oscillate somewhere in the air or they sit in the counties. That is a fundamental issue. Two, the Senate participates in the law-making function of Parliament by considering, debating and approving Bills concerning counties. I want also to refer the house to--- The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Order! Order, hon. Members! Consultations are too high. We want to hear what the hon. Member has to say. He has clearly said that he is dissenting from what has been said before. Can we hear his dissent?
I am not a fan of the Senate and there are so many things they do which are not right. However, let us agree in principle that when we have a Bill touching on a matter relating to a county, in the manner we have the Mining Bill; in which we define how mineral resources or finances coming from there should be shared between the national Government and the county governments---This is a Bill touching directly or indirectly, if anybody chooses to look at it that way, on the county resources and finances. Indeed, minerals, as I have said, sit within particular sections of this country. Now we have petroleum and other oils to be mined in Turkana. Are we saying that a Bill concerning that exploratory process going on in Turkana will be debated without the Senator for Turkana having an opportunity to represent the interests of Turkana? The Mining Bill, if it is lingering somewhere within the House, ought to find its place in the Senate as quickly as possible because that is what the law requires. Secondly, we may pretend that the Senate is doing below our level, but the fact of the matter is this National Assembly is an opportunity of lost governance. The faster we begin thinking as Kenyans and as leaders and know how far we are lagging behind in terms of where we need to take this country, the better for us. There is a programme on television called “ Ungwana au Ushenzi” ---
Order, hon. Kaluma! Hon. Alfred Keter is on a point of order.
On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker. I want to seek clarification on this because hon. Kaluma is misleading this House. If he wants to use the approach of minerals sitting in some counties, then we will devolve everything because everything must be in a certain county, including constituencies. Even the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) should be a county issue; even this Parliament sits in a specific county, which is Nairobi. Then are you reducing everything that sits in a specific county to be a county issue? Thank you.
Okay. So, are you in order, hon. Kaluma?
Hon. Deputy Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to reply. I wish hon. Keter, who was on our side up to yesterday--- I do not know what has become of him recently. You will see where I am coming from.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, the fact of the matter is that---
Hon. Kaluma, you know that everybody is allowed to sit anywhere in the Chamber.
He looks very bad on the side he has gone to recently. He was very good on the side he was. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, the fact of the matter is that there is a misconception in Government and within this House, that national Government has some resources or money to give to the county governments. That is not so. This House is required by law to share resources between the county governments and the national Government. Indeed, I get amazed when people think that even the President has to visit somewhere in order for that place to develop. He has nothing to give anybody! It is upon this House to direct development. That is why I am saying that where we have a Bill touching on resources and finances of a county, Article 110(4) of the Constitution requires that both Houses have a voice on it. Minerals are resources we find within our counties and the issue of devolution and counties is about equity; the equity of getting into the situation where we have all the resources leaving the county to the national Government and then they are used in the manner we have seen; being shared between two counties as if other parts of this country have no roads.
Order! Order, hon. Members!
Those are the situations we are avoiding. I would request the Chair, if really that Bill is somewhere in Parliament, it should be sent to the Senate so that their voices can also be heard. Lastly, I was saying that we need to begin taking ourselves very seriously. I watch a programme on television and as I was saying---
Order! Order, hon. Members! Allow him to speak. Everybody has an opportunity to speak. Order, hon. Leader of Majority Party! Hon. Kaluma, can you proceed and finish the point you were making?
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I am concluding. I was telling this House that, as the National Assembly, we need to move together with the country. Indeed, if we are a true National Assembly, we should begin taking our work very seriously. There is a programme on television which has been catching my attention recently called “ Ungwana au Ushenzi”. Any time I sit in this House, when we debate some things, I see a lot of that programme within us, particularly the latter part. We need to begin thinking about where this county is going. We need to take our place in governance---
Order! Order, hon. Kaluma! Okay hon. (Ms.) Abadalla. Order, hon. Members! I have given the chance to hon. (Ms.) Abadalla. Order, hon. Members!
Hon. Deputy Speaker, for hon. Kaluma to say that minerals are supposed to be county issues and he is a lawyer and he has read this The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Constitution, we must correct that now. This is because if we did not have that revenue sharing formula in the Bill; minerals have nothing to do with counties. I want to read for you where that is in the Constitution. Under Article 62(f) of our Constitution, all minerals and mineral oils as defined by law are public land. Article 62 (3) reads as follows:- “Public land classified under clause 1(f) to (m) shall vest in and be held by the national government in trust for the people of Kenya and shall be administered on their behalf by the National Land Commission.”
If hon. Kaluma owns 10 hectares in Homa Bay and gold is found on his land, that mineral down there belongs to the national Government. Put that in your head and tell your friends in the Senate.
Hon. Deputy Speaker: Order, Members! I am not engaging anymore on this matter, I think the point has been made. Next Order.
Hon. Members, I have a Petition. Hon. Members, Standing Order No. 225(2) (b) requires that the Speaker reports to the House any Petition other than those presented through an hon. Member. I, therefore, wish to convey to the House that my office has received a Petition from 25 representatives of registered political parties. The Petition signed by 25 persons prays that the National Assembly considers further amendments to the Political Parties (Amendment) Bill 2014, Senate Bill No. 3 of 2014 which was passed by the Senate on 7th August, 2014, and thereafter forwarded to the National Assembly for consideration. This Bill was read the First Time in the National Assembly on 20th August, 2014. Among the sections proposed for amendment is section 25 relating to the disbursement of funds to political parties. Hon. Members, as you are aware, this Bill is already before the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs. The Petition also therefore stands committed to the same Committee and can be considered alongside the Bill. The Committee is requested to report its findings to the Petitioners and the House in accordance to Standing Order No. 227(2). I must add that this Committee also undertakes to hear the Petitioners with a view of taking into account their views. I thank you.
On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker. I want to seek your clarification on the Petition that you have just mentioned and the Bill that came from the Senate. At the National Assembly, there is a similar Bill on the amendment of Political Parties Act which I had actually sponsored. I want to seek your clarification in terms of the origin of such a Bill so that we get clear and avoid duplication of legislation because The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
there is one in the Senate and one in the National Assembly. We should be very clear because the Senate has a clear mandate in terms of what kind of Bills can originate from there and that is also the case in the National Assembly. So, I want to seek your clarification on the same matter.
Hon. Wakhungu, I do not think we can finish that clarification now. The one that we are dealing with is the one that came from the Senate and it is already before the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs. That is the one we are saying that it should be considered with the Petition which is related to the same matter. The question on whether your Bill or the Senate Bill is the one to be considered is a matter that will be deliberated on another day. At the moment, my earlier communication on the Mining Bill was simply to inform you that it is before the House; not to decide whether it shall go to the Senate or not. It was simply to inform you that all the debates that are ongoing are really not based on facts. The fact is that the Bill is here in the National Assembly. We will have hon. Lomunokol on behalf of hon. Chumel.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to present this Public Petition by Interlink Industries on delay of payment for the construction of an outpatient block at Igegania Sub-District Hospital. I, the undersigned, on behalf of Interlink Industries, draw the attention of the House to the following:- 1. THAT, Interlink Industries was awarded contract No.IGG/SDH/TN/021 2012/2013 by the Ministry of Health to construct an outpatient block at Igegania Sub-District Hospital; 2. THAT, the Petitioners completed and handed over the project on 6th November, 2013;
Order, hon. Members! Is it because you have just come from recess? There is too much consultations and greetings going on. Can hon. Members on the left get out? We cannot even hear the Petition being presented by the hon. Member.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I will continue. 3. THAT, the outpatient department block was officially opened by the Deputy President on 26th April 2014; 4. THAT, it is almost a year since the Petitioners last received payment from the Ministry of Health; 5. THAT, the outstanding works balance and contractual claims as at 19th July, 2014 amounted to Kshs.11,929,436.91; 6. THAT, the Ministry of Health Headquarters informed the Medical Superintendent of Igegania Sub-District Hospital vide a letter dated 23rd May, 2014, Ref. MOH/4/4/17A (20) that since county health services had been transferred to the county governments and The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
that funds to finance those functions were equally devolved, the Ministry Headquarters was left without funds to pay outstanding county debts for the Financial Year 2013/2014; 7. THAT, the Ministry further advised the hospital to seek additional funding from the Kiambu County Government to offset outstanding debts; 8. THAT, despite following up the matter with the relevant authorities in Kiambu County Government, the Petitioners have not received any responses as to when they will be paid; 9. THAT, the matter in respect of which this Petition is made is not pending before any court of law; Therefore, your humble Petitioners pray that the National Assembly, through the Departmental Committee on Health, intervenes to have the Petitioners paid their outstanding balance, the interest on delayed payments and retention monies as well as the extended preliminaries and Value Added Tax (VAT) on the same.
Your petitioners will ever pray.
The Petition stands committed to the Departmental Committee on Health. Next Order.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the House today, Tuesday, 11th November, 2014:- The Kisumu National Polytechnic Order, 2014; The Eldoret National Polytechnic Order, 2014; The Kenya Technical Trainers College Order, 2014 and the Explanatory Memoranda (in accordance with Section II of the Statutory Instruments Act, 2013). The Annual Report and Financial Statements of the National Construction Authority for the year ended 30th June 2013 and the Certificate of the Auditor General therein. The Annual Report and Financial Statements of the University of Nairobi for the year ended 30th June 2013 and the Certificate of the Auditor General therein. Thank you.
Those Papers will be processed by the Committee on Delegated Legislation. That is the first one. This is the one on the Kisumu National Polytechnic Order 2014. Next Order.
I want to request for adjournment on a definite matter of urgent national importance. Pursuant to Standing Order 33(1), I seek leave to move the adjournment of the House for the purpose of discussing the ongoing insecurity in the country. Hon. Deputy Speaker, in the recent past there have been serious security lapses in various parts of the country especially in Mombasa, Malindi and Kapedo at the Turkana- Baringo border. It is concerning that the agencies charged with securing the wellbeing of the citizens and their properties are themselves unable to conduct the operations successfully. They are unable to contain the problem or arrest and charge any guilty persons in these incidents. In Kapedo for example, over 18 police officers lost their lives in addition to a number of civilians. Further, it is alleged that official weapons and uniforms were lost and that some police officers have relinquished their weapons to their superiors to avoid deployment to such violence-prone areas. The Government needs to act fast to contain insecurity and take all the precautions necessary to ensure that peace in the country is attained without further loss of lives and property. Thank you.
Okay Members, you are clearly more than 20. Therefore, hon. Members, you may now sit. Hon. Nassir also had a similar request for an Adjournment Motion but his was specifically about the Coast area. We shall process hon. Alfred’s Motion because it is both for the Coast area as well as Kapedo. I will, therefore, order that we will adjourn at 5:30 p.m. for one hour to discuss the security situation in the country. What is your point of order hon. Bowen?
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. These Adjournments Motions have never yielded anything, especially in terms of insecurity in this country. I think there is a serious problem of insecurity in this country and we cannot be rising to adjourn the House every other time. We have not seen anything coming out of it. Can the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security tell us why this is the case because we have been rising so many times over this issue?
The Leader of Majority Party wants to comment on your question.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, my very good friend, hon. Bowen, knows the Standing Orders and the Constitution very clearly. There are various routes to skinning a cat. If you want to choose the Adjournment Motion, that is provided for in the Standing Orders. You will talk and raise your concerns and it ends there. If you want to be more serious, read the Constitution and the Standing Orders. There are better routes. Now we need to discuss the Motion of my good friend, hon. Alfred Keter who is doing very well. Please, do not dilute it. You can come and discuss his Motion and then pick from where hon. Alfred has left and do something else.
Part of your concerns, hon. Bowen, could be some of the points that you will make when you will be talking on the Adjournment Motion. You can The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
clearly state how frustrated you are getting with the lack of action. So, hon. Members, we shall adjourn at 5:30p.m. until 6:30p.m. for that Motion on insecurity. Next Order.
Hon. Gikaria had a balance of five minutes. If hon. Gikaria is in the House, he can prosecute his five minutes or else his chance goes to hon. Daniel Maanzo who is the next person on the list.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker for giving me an opportunity to contribute on this important Bill; the Water Bill, 2014. I come from a region where water is a very scarce commodity and with your kind permission there is a little bit of noise in the House.
Order, Order Members! There is too much excitement today. Can we take our discussions outside the Chamber? The hon. Chachu Ganya, have you forgotten your Standing Order when the Speaker is upstanding? Hon. Members, can we please allow debate to continue? We are just starting the business of the House. Can we allow Members to debate and do what they are paid to do, which is to debate very serious Bills in the House? If you need to speak to other Members, kindly find a place either inside here or outside but can we have silence in the House, hon. Members? Let us respect this Chamber.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. Section 108 of the Water Bill, 2014 is about compulsory acquisition of land. When somebody has been given permission by the county government or national Government to extract water, compulsory acquisition of land has been a very thorny issue in the country. This is because this section is not amended and I will be proposing amendments during the Committee Stage. The way it is, there is a possibility that people could lose land and then fail to be compensated. Individuals could sneak and steal private land simply because they have been licensed It is also like a business for the State, county or for individuals with a licence. So, hon. Deputy Speaker, we will be looking forward to have Article 108 on compulsory acquisition of land aligned with the Constitution and other laws. In my constituency, there is a place called Manooni Dam where farmers had their land acquired in 1986. A water mass was developed, but the dam is now silted. It is unfortunate that The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
these people have not been compensated to date. I think this sort of law is important. The other important factor in that we have riparian ownership, whereby people adjacent to a river have certain rights to it and its water. Rivers have other resources such as sand which used to benefit the people under riparian ownership. The Water Bill is quiet on the safety of our environment among other things. This sort of law is scattered in several pieces of legislation in this country. It will be good if we put all these laws together so that matters relating to water, compulsory acquisition of land, the rights of the people near that land, as it is today in the current law, are put together. We want the people of Kenya to benefit from such facilities which are ordinarily public in nature. When you look at this law, there is an issue of water conservation in the country. We have roofs in Kenya which can collect water. Many people who do not have water resources near them may have roofs to tap water, but have no tanks to collect rain water. Many schools now have roofs which can be used to tap rain water. We will be proposing that there be a law that guides the county and the national Government on water conservation and collection. In schools which have proper roofs to collect water, we should have a law that ensures that the counties collect enough water. All roofs should be used to tap rain water in the rural areas, which can then be put into different uses. Such a law is important, so that we can harvest more water in the country and have clean drinking water in the country. We should also have proper methods of treating this water. Our laws are not clear in terms of the methods of treating water. That is why it is important for us to put them together. Although the water sector has been devolved, the issues have not been put together properly. That is why this Water Bill is so important so that we can conserve water. We also have major rivers in Kenya, which have not been used. It will be better if this law provides and germinates a policy of water conservation in the county in terms of dams. We should utilize big rivers such as Athi River, which passes through my constituency for almost 80 kilometres. The River Tana and other rivers in Kenya, should be utilized. We should construct dams like the Thwake Athi Dam and the High Grand Falls Dam on Tana River. This water should then be used for irrigation. Food security is very important and it is tied to water. Currently, there is a very serious debate on whether we should irrigate our land or invest in genetically modified crops which can survive in dry areas. With enough water and good laws on water, we can irrigate massively in Kenya. With irrigation going on, we will then have food security. There will be enough water for animals and clean water for human consumption. Therefore, I would like to thank the Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs for doing its best to draft this law. We will introduce several amendments just like we did with the Mining Bill where we handled about 114 amendments. We look forward to amending this Bill in the Committee Stage, so that it can serve the best purposes and improve the water policy in the country. It should also make sure that as many Kenyan as possible access clean drinking water. The conservation areas which have been mentioned here should be conserved. Kenya needs to have enough forests. If we compare Kenya to other countries such as the DRC Congo, where they have conserved their forests very well, their river water has never gone down. We need to come out strongly to advocate for the conservation of the water towers in the Rift Valley and the Mount Kenya area, so The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
that we can have serious afforestation. This could be happening every rainy season and throughout whenever people can plant trees. We used to have a policy of planting a tree whenever a tree is harvested which provided that when you harvest a tree, you plant ten trees, so that we could conserve our water towers. This also has a bearing with the rain and the wind patterns. The more forest cover we have, the more we slow the wind and get more clouds for rain. This gives us rainfall and water in the country. I support the Bill and I look forward to amending it to make it better for the people of Kenya.
Hon. Simba Arati! He is not even in the room. Hon. Samuel Ndiritu.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. Mine is just to add a voice and give a bit of history of the water sector in the country. We started with the Water Act, when it was all under the national Government. Then we had the Water Act, 2002, where the water sector partly remained with the Government and part of it was liberalized. Service boards were created and water providers. We had water service providers, namely, the companies that were supplying water. The service boards have been doing a lot of infrastructural development. They have held all the infrastructure that existed in trust for the Government. We know that they have been supplying water. The proposed Water Bill is coming in to align the water systems with the new Constitution. We know that water supply and service provision is in the county governments. The storage of water and the water works have been proposed to be a function of the national Government. The Bill as it stands proposes that we have a national water works, which will be a strategic Government institution that will deal with the national infrastructure. We have water catchment areas, for example, the Lake Victoria and the Tana River catchment areas which are cross-cutting. The Bill proposes that the water infrastructure remains in the national Government. For example, we have systems like the Ndakaini where water comes from Murang’a, past Kiambu and to Nairobi. We have water coming from Nyandarua all the way through Kiambu into Nairobi. This is cross-cutting. A catchment like Tana cuts across seven counties. For that reason, it will be impossible for water to be confined to a county. The proposal in the Bill will solve some of the problems that may be encountered. We have had the Mining Bill where the Senate is saying that it is supposed to be counties affair, but I urge the Members to understand that some of these national resources like water remain a function of the Central Government. Being a Member of the Committee, I am surprised that after spending many hours discussing and getting views from the many stakeholders, at the end of the day, it is being claimed that the Bill was supposed to have originated somewhere else. Water is a natural resource and should be seen as such. The National Assembly is in order to discuss and pass this Bill. I would like to urge the Members, now that we will be headed for the Third Reading, it is not perfect. We have proposed many amendments even as Members of the Committee. We know that water is life. We have had many issues and we know that there was to be clean drinking water in every household by the year 200. We have since pushed that and now we are headed for Vision 2030. This Bill is supposed to fast-track this so that we can get water to our people. We know that this is a right that every person should The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
get water in the right quantity and quality. We are sure that if we can come together, through this Bill, we will fast-track the provision of water, so that it is enjoyed by every Kenya as a right as it is described in our Constitution. I beg to support. Dur ing t he Third Read ing, t here are qu it e a nu mber o f a me nd me nt s we wo u ld like t o pro po se. We need t o fast -t rack t his B ill so t hat we do no t keep t a lk ing a bo ut t ak ing wat er to o ur home s, w it ho ut t ak ing act io n. In 1976, t here w as a c ere mo ny w h ic h wa s me a nt to re mo ve t he burd e n o f c arr ying wat er in jerr yc a ns by wo me n. The y were t o ld t hat wat er had be e n o ff- lo aded fro m t he ir he ad s a nd ba cks a nd it was t o be p ip ed. It is no w 38 year s a nd t here is no wat er. There fo re, we ca n u se t his B ill t o co me up w it h po lic ie s a nd la ws t ha t will e na ble w at er reach o ur ho mes. Tha nk yo u. I beg t o suppo rt .
Ho n. M illie Od hia mbo , t he Flo o r is yo urs.
Tha nk yo u, ho n. Deput y Speak er, fo r g iv ing me t his o ppo rt unit y. I w is h t o suppo rt t his B ill. I was invo lve d in t he wat er sect o r refo r ms whe n t he o t her B ill w e are se ek ing t o succeed wa s pa ss ed. Fro m t he o ut set, I want to agree w it h t he Lea der o f M ino r it y Part y. Be fo re we w e nt o n reces s, he spo ke o n t he is sue o f re fo r ms. I wo u ld wa nt to enco urage him t o push fo r t he re fo r ms he was t a lk ing a bo ut, espec ia lly o n t he is sue s o f ma inst rea ming hu ma n r ig ht s - ba sed ap pro ach w h ic h ha s no t bee n st re ngt he ned. I wo uld like t o sa y t hat t he re fo r ms wo rked int o is sue s o f wo me n a s peo p le w ho wo u ld no t o nly u se wat er freq ue nt ly, but a lso t he o ne s mo st a ffe ct ed. In Ke nya wo me n e nco mpa s s t he fa ce o f po vert y. In mo st case s, we se e wo me n in Uk a mba ni a nd o t her areas ma nning do nke ys in s earc h o f wat er. We made sure t hat a ny r e fo r m in t he wat er sect o r t akes int o acco u nt wo me n, yo ut h a nd perso ns w it h d isa bilit ie s a s us ers. There fo re, as a mat t er o f r ig ht, in t he user co mu nit ie s t he y s ho u l d be inc lu ded. I w ill seek t o br ing so me a me nd me nt s, if t he Le ader o f M ino r it y Part y w ill no t t ake it int o acco unt . I co me fro m a co nst it ue nc y w here we ha v e sect io ns t hat e it her ha ve too mu c h wat er o r no wat er at a ll. U nfo rt unat e ly, I co me fro m t he t wo wards. M y fat her co me s fro m a w ard w it h a lo t o f wat er a nd I ha ve res ide d in a p la ce w it h a bso lut e ly no wat er. It is impo rt ant, t here fo re t hat we g ive pr io r it y is sue s o f wat er in are as like t hes e o ne s. This is t he rea so n wh y I s uppo rt init iat ive s t hat wo uld br ing mo re mo ne y t o t he co unt ie s ; be it t hro ugh O koa K enya o r Pesa Ma shinani . We mu st pro vide a lo t o f mo ne y so t hat o ur wo me n do no t suffer. Whe n I to ld t he peo p le o f M bit a Co nst it ue nc y t hat we are co ming up w it h t he Wat er B ill, t he y se nt me t o t ell t he Ho use t hat, t he reaso n w h y o ur popu lat io n is go ing do wn a nd w hy t he Ju bile e s id e ha s t he t yra nny o f nu mber s is bec au se o ur wo me n ar e wa lk ing fo r lo ng d ist a nc es in s earc h o f wa t er inst ead o f incr ea s ing o ur The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
po pu lat io n. T here fo re, a s a mat t er o f pr io rit y, t he Nat io na l Ass e mb ly s ho u ld co ns id er wo me n fro m M bit a Co nst it uenc y so t hat we ca n c ha lle nge Ju bile e o n t he is sue o f t he t yra nn y o f nu mbers. Ho n. Deput y Spe aker, t he o t her is su e t hat I wo uld w a nt to sa y is t he is su e o f w at er in t he rura l area s. But I want to r aise a co ncer n a bo ut wat er as a r ig ht, espec ia lly in ur ba n are as. I ha v e live d in r ive rs id e fo r a lo ng t ime. Fo r ma ny ye ars, we ne ver had wat er as a c ha lle ng e, but we ca n no w go fo r t wo mo nt hs w it ho ut wat er. This is caus ed by po o r urban p la nn ing, no t ho n. Kid ero . The w a y t he c it y is mo v ing ; Park la nds, Kile le s hwa a nd area s c lo se to t he CBD w ere no t t ailo re d in a ma nner t hat was mea nt to have a lo t o f hig h-r is e ap art me nt s. We are incre as ing t ho se apart me nt s w it ho ut t ak ing int o acco u nt t he pre ssur e t hat we ar e putt ing t o t he supp ly o f wat er. Ver y so o n Na iro bi w ill be a co unt y t hat canno t supp ly w at er to it s o wn p eo p le. It is a cr ying s ha me fo r u s t o reach suc h t ime w it ho ut supp lying o ur peo p le w it h w at er. Fina lly, I wo u ld w a nt to sa y t hat, I will br ing a n a me nd me nt espe c ia lly o n t he is sue o f wat er as a r ig ht und er t he Co nst it ut io n. Wat er is es se nt ia l a nd a fu nd a me nt a l r ig ht fo r hu ma n be ing s. I f t here is a d is put e a nd t he su pp lier wa nt s t o dis co nnect yo ur wat er supp ly, it ca n o nly be do ne t hro ugh a co urt o rder. There is a lo t o f co rrupt io n go ing o n in t he supp lier s o f wat er in t his t o wn. I have bee n haras se d b y N a iro bi Wat er Co mp a ny a s a Me mber o f Par lia me nt, beca us e my ho us e has a pro ble m o f w at er bill. It reads Ks hs.600,000 a nd e ve n a ft er so rt ing it o ut t wo mo nt hs lat er t he wat er bill we nt to Ks hs. 200,000. The y keep d is co nnect ing my wat er a ft er e ver y mo nt h. So met ime s I wo nd er if I a m suppo sed t o suppo rt t his B ill bec aus e at t ime s I read mis c hie f fro m Na iro bi Wat er Co mpa ny becau se o f my mo ut h. M y mo ut h ha s made me g et bra nde d ma ny t hing s ; inc lu d ing t he rece nt o ne w here I was c a lled a mo le. But I a m use d to it be cau se I spe ak t he t rut h, and no t hing but t he t rut h, so he lp me Go d. I w ill ne ver re fra in fro m sp eak ing t he t rut h and, t here fo re, I am go ing t o pro po s e a n a me nd me nt . But if N a iro bi Wat er Co mpa ny wa nt s a br ibe, I w ill ne ver br ibe t he m. The y w ill supp ly me w it h wat er be cau se it is my r ig ht und er t he Co nst it ut io n o f Ke n ya. Wit h t ho se fe w re mark s, I beg t o suppo rt.
Ho n. We s le y Ko r ir, yo u ha ve t he Flo o r.
Tha nk yo u, ho n. Deput y Spe aker, fo r g iving me t his o pport unit y t o co nt ribut e o n t his cruc ia l B ill t hat to uche s o n t he live s o f e ver ybo d y. First ly, a cce s s t o c lea n w at er s ho u ld be a r ig ht fo r ever y Ke nya n a nd no t a prio r it y t o a fe w ind iv idu a ls w ho are privile ged. It is unfo rt unat e t hat 50 year s a ft er Ind epe nde nce ; ma jo r it y o f Ke nya ns espe c ia lly t ho s e in t he co unt r ys ide c a nno t acce ss c le a n w at er. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
I did so me re se arc h in t he are a w here I c o me fro m; t he big ge st wat er cat chme nt area in t his co u nt r y. We ha ve C here ng a ny H ills w hic h pro vides w at er to ma ny are as in t his co unt r y. Wit h t he he lp o f so me do cto rs, I did rese arc h in my area be cau se I want ed to find o ut t he big ge st pro ble m we are fac ing es pec ia lly o n d is ea se s. I was surpr i s ed t o find o ut t hat 80 per cent o f d is ea se s t hat mo st o f o ur peo p le su ffer fro m esp ec ia lly fro m C here nga n y H ills ar e wat erbo rne d is eas es. It is c le ar t hat, if we pro vide c le a n wat er fo r o ur peo ple t he n w e w ill ha ve so lved 80 p er ce nt o f what o ur peo ple ar e su ffer ing fro m. On be ha lf o f C here nga n y Co nst it uenc y, I wa nt to sa y t hat, I ho pe t his B ill w ill t ake care o f t hat pro ble m. W at er is a nat ura l re so urce o f a n area like C here ng a ny w her e we are pr iv ile ged t o pro vide wat er. Unfo rt u nat e ly, w at er is t apped fr o m C here ng a ny H ills, a nd is p ipe d und ergro und via p eo p le ’s ho use s w hile lo ca ls do no t be ne fit fro m t hat wat er. Wat er is t ake n o ut o f C here nga n y H ills a nd it is p ip ed a ll t he w a y to West er n Pro vince ; t o Kit a le a nd Bu ngo ma t o wns.
I want to bring an amendment to make sure that before a natural resource is extracted--- Things should be the way we were dealing with the Mining Bill, namely that 30 per cent of the mining resources should go to the people around its location. How are we going to make sure that when water is tapped from your area people who benefit from that water, first are the ones in the locality? It would be unfortunate that you take away water from people who are dying from waterborne diseases. That is what we need to take care of; we need to be very sure that this Bill takes cares of that. We also have to make sure that we have a constituency water board. I have seen here that the Bill talks about a regional water board, but we need a constituency water board, so that it can take care of the collection of revenue at the constituency level. The money collected by those people - some of it is collected every month - can go to regional offices of the national Government, and some of it should remain where the water comes from. Those people are the ones paying for the water; so, they should also get some benefit in form of the water. I support this Bill and look forward to bringing some amendments to make sure that the people around where water comes from are the first ones to benefit from it before it goes out to other people. Thank you.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker, for according me this very rare opportunity to contribute to this Bill.
I would ask you to protect me from the hon. Obura, who is, obviously, interfering with my contribution.
Order, Hon. Obura! Before you have even entered the House, you are already causing---
Problems; hon. Deputy Speaker! Hon Obura is becoming used to this idea of derailing people. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
I want to contribute to this very important Bill because for the first time we are having an attempt to streamline the water sector. As many of my colleagues have said, water is an extremely important resource.
Allow me, hon. Wandayi, to, before you continue, recognize the presence in the House of Endebe Usinya Primary School from Baringo South Constituency. You are welcome in the National Assembly.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. I was saying that water is an extremely important resource. Indeed, among the national resources that we can talk about that have a possibility of creating disharmony or harmony is water. Many countries have gone to war on account of water. People have fought wars because of competition for water. Even in this country water remains a scarce resource and, therefore, this Bill is a positive step in the right direction in terms of streamlining this very important sector. For the first time, we are going to have water resource management aspects clearly separated from the water service aspects. This Bill will do a lot in terms of streamlining these two very important aspects of water management. We have also seen in this Bill a deliberate attempt to strengthen what we are referring to as “water service boards”. These service boards are important in terms of implementing water projects. In fact, the only way we shall ensure that water resources are managed well and services reach the people at the grassroots is if, as the Bill envisages, water service boards are strengthened and their capacities enhanced to enable them undertake their mandate effectively. That is one very positive thing about this Bill. We are aware that water is essentially a devolved function; water service is 100 per cent devolved to the counties. It is, therefore, important that, as we debate this Bill, we recognize the fact that county governments have a bigger role to play in the management of water resources and the provision of water services. This Bill recognizes this very clearly. We must also take cognizance of the fact that a big chunk of the budget for water management is still provided by donors, that is external donors. This is still the crux of the matter. In the past, a lot of this donor support has been misused. A lot of donor funding has come through, but ended up doing things which were not in the intention of the donor agencies. It is my hope that in the wake of this very liberal and robust Bill, the matter of corruption, in so far as mismanaging the donor funding is concerned, is going to be a thing of the past. That is the surest way for us to address the issue of water scarcity and people having access to water. It is my hope that this Bill is going to help rein in corruption and cartels that have dominated the water sector over the years. I can go on and on but the upshot of my speech is that this is a Bill that requires to be supported by all of us because it is a Bill that is going to essentially ensure that water is no longer a preserve of a small minority, but is a resource that will be enjoyed by the vast majority of the citizens of this country. Therefore, without saying much I want to support this Bill in totality. I happen to sit in the Departmental Committee on Environment and Natural Resources, which has processed this Bill and I am very proud of the work we have done as a Committee, and the good work the Chairlady of that Committee has done together with hon. Members; I want to urge all my colleagues to support this Bill. Thank you very much. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this very nice piece of legislation. It is a good proposal. I would like to say that I was involved in the inaugural water sector reforms when the Water Act, 2002 was being implemented; I was privileged to serve as the Chairman of Nairobi Water Company in the period 2004 to 2007 and witnessed the challenges that existed. There was need to diversify water sector programmes in rural areas, particularly in areas that were coming up with new water bodies. Inclusive of those were water organisations within villages, water units that were organized by communities in order to enable them to minimize costs. With devolution in the new dispensation, there are still some grey areas that need to be tightened; I am very happy that in this legislation, they are being taken care of, particularly the need to ensure that investments by the national Government are not ruined by county governments after investment is undertaken. For instance, if there is a dam that is developed in a certain county through a grant, a loan or the normal financing by the national Government, does that investment become wholly a property of a county? I tend to be a little bit concerned with the proposal that although we say that counties must benefit, and the local people truly benefit from investment in their area, we must also be conscious of the fact that there are basic investments done by the national Government that should cut across counties and enable the nation to harvest benefits. A dam that is constructed at the edge of a county, at the very boundary, does not necessarily belong to that county and neither should any other investment, for instance a water reservoir. They belong to the nation and cut across. Therefore, I hope that we will come to the stage of amendments. There should be concessions arranged between the county governments and the national Government, so that the implementation of investments does not bring conflict. It is said many times that if there will be another war in the world, it will be over water. If there will be any cause of disagreements - it is even happening in this country - it will be because of water. In the arid and semi arid areas, communities are fighting over water, or they are disagreeing; therefore, we should contemplate a scenario where in future we will need to have a mechanism in place that will be so tight that in the long term we will not have the county governments re-investing in autonomy. This will be by them saying: “This belongs to us; it is within our county; it is a dam. It is a water spring.” It is just like the way we talk about forests and so on. The next point is the need to improve governance overall as was said by my colleague here, hon. Millie Odhiambo, who was involved as a legal officer at the State Law Office at the particular time when we were doing water sector reforms. Governance is very important. I would like to say proudly despite the challenges that some Nairobi people may be facing, Nairobi Water Company is now being rated in the region as one of the best providers in terms of timely bills, reduction of unaccounted for water, sustaining co- operate management systems and so on. However, we need to look into those holes that we need to seal, so that there is less leakage in terms of the actual customer service and adherence to the customer service charter. Improvement of governance will also improve the payment system, the payroll system, the delivery, the response and so on. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
As I conclude, I would like to appreciate a guest who is here, Rev. Bayo, his wife and their two lovely children; they come from my constituency; they have been very instrumental in enabling communities to work together to have water in Mukurweini and enable communities to work together harmoniously, I strongly support this Bill.
Before I give hon. Chris Wamalwa a chance, I want to recognise the presence of pupils from Mosop Kimong Primary School in Mosop Constituency, Nandi County. You are welcome in the National Assembly.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker for this opportunity. I rise to support this Water Bill and I want to say that this one has been long overdue. There was a Water Act and people in Government used to say by the year 2002, there would be water for all. We waited for the water and up to now, as we speak today, we do not have water for all. This Bill is very critical because it is going to provide for the regulation, management and development of water resources. There is the element of the sewerage which is in this Bill; going through the Water Bill, we realise that we do not have anything much on the sewage issue. The sewarage system is very critical for the health of any country. This is a working nation and for people to work optimally, health is very critical. So, it is, indeed, very important that when we reach the Committee of the whole House stage we will propose some amendments that will enrich this part. Hon. Deputy Speaker, going to the issue of water, when you look at Schedule Four of the Constitution, you will find that matters of water are devolved. They are under the county governments, but when you go further, there is this suggestion of establishment of the Water Resource Regulatory Authority. Indeed, it is a wonderful idea but when you go to the management board, in terms of constituting it we do not have representation of the county. So, when we reach the Committee of the whole House stage, we will try to bring some amendments, so that when it comes to the management board it can be inclusive. This is because we are told the chairperson will be appointed by His Excellency the President. We will have other Principal Secretaries of the relevant Ministries on that board, but we do not have the representation of the county, yet this function is devolved.
Are you on a point of order, hon. Chachu Ganya?
Yes, hon. Deputy Speaker.
Okay. What is out of order?
On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker. Is it in order for my brother and friend, hon. Wamalwa to expect this Bill to be dealing with issues of sanitation and sewerage when that is clearly the function of the county governments? Is it in order?
Hon Wamalwa, are you in order?
Hon. Deputy Speaker when you read the title of the Water Bill, it says: “An Act of Parliament to provide for the regulation, management, development of water resources, water and sewerage services and for connected purposes.” It is very clear. So, anyone looking at this and from this description--- When you go through the Water Bill, it is common sense that you will expect some parts of this it to touch on issues dealing with the sewerage. We appreciate that it is devolved; even when it comes The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
to the issue of water, when you go to Schedule Four of the Constitution, it is equally devolved but we are going to have an apex body which is going to be like a parastatal; it is going to be a water regulatory authority. This authority will have a board, which will be overseeing the management of the operations of this regulatory authority. So, my comment on this is that when we look at the issue of the board, it is crucial that the counties be represented. This is because when you look at the composition of board members you see PS Lands, a representative of Treasury, and because this is a devolved function, it will add more value if we have a representation from the counties. That was my suggestion, and we will bring some amendments when it comes to Committee of the whole House to take care of that. Hon. Deputy Speaker, looking at the Bill, there is this issue of the Chief Executive Officer (CEO). When you look at the qualifications of the CEO, it is indicated that the CEO must be a degree holder. In this era, we have specialisations in aspects of water management. So, when it comes to the Committee Stage, we are going to propose some amendments, so that we do not just say that we want a CEO who has a degree; we will say that we want a CEO who has a relevant degree when it comes to matters of water management. Indeed, local universities have established some courses in water management. We even have water engineers and so on. In line with job description and job qualifications, this will be very critical for--- When you look at employees, it is saying the terms and conditions of service of the employees of this authority are going to be determined by the Cabinet Secretary in charge of the Public Service; in matters of salaries, they are going to be guided by the Salaries and Remuneration Commission (SRC). Again our Constitution is very clear that we have the Public Service Commission (PSC). Instead of having an individual, who is the Principal Secretary in charge of the Public Service, why do we not replace this because now--- At the Committee of the whole House stage we will propose some amendments, so that instead of the Cabinet Secretary we say that the terms and conditions of service of the employees are going to be determined by the Public Service Commission, which is actually the body that is in charge of all this. When it comes to salary issues, they will be guided by the SRC, which is headed by Ms. Sarah Serem. Hon. Deputy Speaker, water is critical for life and food security in this country. So, the Bill is very good. We are going to support it. I do not have much more to say but I support the Bill. Thank you.
Yes, hon. Kajwang Tom.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker for allowing me to add my voice to the Bill that is before us. The principles of this Bill are laudable and should be supported by conscientious people and people who know that water is life. However, every time I look at this Bill, I find it so difficult to support the various clauses that have been proposed. To start with, I am complaining that it is unfair for the National Assembly to debate Bills when committees have not presented to us reports on the scrutiny of Bills. Without those reports, Members of the National Assembly are unable to follow policy suggestions and proposals that are behind the enactment of a particular legislation. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Without the reports, it is very difficult to know some of the issues that the committees raise and that require amendments. We then can debate Bills from a point of information. Having said that, I want to go through the Bill and I hope that Members of this Committee, including my friend, hon. Ganya Chachu, are taking notes. This is the opportunity.
On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker. Is it really in order for hon. Kajwang’ to state that as a Committee, we have not provided this House with a Report? We have a series of amendments that we are going to move as a Committee. Is it in order for him to say that when we have a very detailed Report?
Which is already before this House? It has been presented?
Yes, hon. Deputy Speaker.
Therefore, it is the hon. Members who have not taken time to familiarize themselves with the Committee’s Report.
I beg your pardon, hon. Deputy Speaker; but I was in Table Office specifically to look for this Report and I did not get it. It is an issue that I stand advised on. I am not so sure that a Report was tabled; it is good practice that every time we debate Bills, we have a report. This way we will be able to understand the background of the Bill. Having said that, I am worried about the way Bills find their way into this House. They have tried to enact Part III by creating an authority called “the Water Resources Regulatory Authority”. Overleaf under Clause 12, there is another body called the “Management Board”. When you flip the pages to Clause 15, you find details of that Management Board. What is surprising is that if you flip several more pages, you will come to another authority called the “National Water Harvesting and Storage Authority”. If you compare both Authorities, you will find that they are a duplication in terms of functions, co-ordination and constitution. I want to suggest that these bodies be merged into one, so that there is only one authority, which will be able to handle issues concerning water and issuance of permits, and will have one Chief Executive Officer and the same employees. If you look through, you will find a section dealing with the charges on water. With regard to the charges for water, I am happy that the Committee, which has brought this proposal, has decided that there will be a schedule. I hope that through this schedule, my people of Mathare should receive free water. We are trying to reach the threshold in the Constitution that everybody is entitled to and is able to receive water. These are people who help run this country. They spend all their hours in Industrial Area, or make us comfortable as we look at other things. Water in Mathare is more expensive, I can tell you without a doubt, than it is in Kileleshwa. I would want to think that there will be a schedule that will give everybody a right to receive water. I am worried that the tribunal that is going to handle permits may take us back to where we are coming from in terms of liquor licensing. We have seen it in cities where it became a mess. I am worried that if we do not put in enough safeguards, particularly in the City, water will be very expensive and will be the source of corruption in this country. Therefore, apart from the tribunal and local authorities that give the permits, there is need for better tools to get things done. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
I was also looking at the sections dealing with sewage disposal and how to protect riparian areas. For those of us who live along Nairobi River, we have serious issues on how to protect riparian areas. I know that the Environmental Co-ordination Act, for example, addresses some issues, but this Water Bill needs to put special emphasis on how riparian waters will be protected and how sewage will be disposed of. If this is not done, I will find it very difficult, as someone from Korogocho to, for example, support a Bill that does not clearly show how sewage disposal will be handled, or how factory effluent will be disposed of. It is a good Bill but one that needs to be visited with a fine toothcomb to comb areas that are inconsistent and leave only areas that are on policy issues. I am glad the Committee proposes to bring some amendments. However, if we do not know what the Committee is bringing, then we, as Members, do not know what else to bring to remove what we think is wrong. I will look at the Report and the amendments that the Committee is bringing, against the amendments that we as Members will bring and then we can support it.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu)
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I wish to support the Water Bill, 2014. Water is a crucial natural resource, which should be available to all human beings. Water is life. It is important for living. This Bill clearly wants to reform the water sector. It is proposing a number of changes in the management, usage, storage, harvesting and rehabilitation of the affected areas. I come from an area which continues to experience recurrent and severe drought. The scenario in Wajir County and the northern part of Kenya is that when it rains, the rains are heavy and there are floods. When it is dry, on the other hand, there are water shortages, extreme drought and animals die because of lack of water. This Water Bill is expected to reconcile these kinds of challenges that Kenyans are experiencing. The other issue is that water and its safety are connected issues.The Bill must address these concerns. In this country we have very progressive legislation but we have a bad history in terms of implementation and enforcing the progressive laws we have formulated. I have realized that what is lacking in this Bill is the link between environmental conservation, implementation of environmental measures and control of erosion. When water flows heavily, it destroys the environment. When it is not raining The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
and water is not controlled then we have an environmental degradation both during dry and wet periods.
The other thing I have seen in this Bill, which is progressive, is that it is introducing a lot of institutional structures like boards, authorities and committees. A scan of this Bill clearly shows that it has eight institutional structures. These are Water Resources and Regulatory Authority, the Water Basin Resource Committee, the National Water Harvesting and Storage Authority, the Water Works Development Boards, the Water Service Regulatory Authority, among other structures that are within the Bill. The challenge for all these institutions is that their functions are similar, sometimes the same and sometimes conflicting.
The end product is that the public, who are supposed to access water with no problem and through minimum structures that are affordable, will be affected. These structures also will need heavy staff recruitment, appointment of senior officers and appointment of board members, which means it will have staff at different levels. This is too much for this country, which is experiencing a high wage bill. The Committee needs to relook at how to harmonize these structures, or institutions, which may be affected. In terms of providing efficient and effective service, and in terms of reforming the water sector--- One other challenge I find in this Bill is that provision of affordable, accessible and safe water may be compromised by the structures and requirements provided. Kenya is a signatory to many international standards. One of the requirements is to improve rural water access. My fear as regards this Bill is the cost of regulations, requirements and structures. There is a likelihood of denying rural communities access to water. The other challenge in this Bill is that water service is devolved. The national Government has policy responsibility while the county government has service delivery responsibility. The Cabinet Secretary for the Ministry concerned with water related functions at the national level has a lot of responsibility and minimum consultation requirements with the county government, which has substantive devolved functions on water service provision. My fear is that if conflict is not resolved in the law, then it will bring a lot of challenges in oversight of provision of water and other services related to water to the public who need this service. The challenge in this country is access to water in terms of physical and information on accessibility. Sometimes the public is not given adequate and appropriate information regarding water, its safety and availability. As for structures proposed in this Bill, they might be too expensive for the common mwananchi to access water. This Bill is aimed at reforming water service delivery, improve accessibility and availability. The way the Bill is designed, it might compromise availability, quality, safety and accessibility of such a crucial and life-saving natural resource. I have personal fear because I come from an area where the public experience chronic water shortage. Sometimes even local resources in the county government are diverted. The Bill is very weak in terms of strengthening water service protection and harvesting in areas where there is perennial water scarcity. We need to look at the users of water; we know it is women. The appointment of members to boards and committees- -- We need to include the requirement for gender in these structures, so that there are The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
more women than the other gender, who will ensure better service delivery and make decisions that directly affect them. Thank you and I support the Bill.
Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Water as a resource is very fundamental to the well being of individuals and society in general. I would like to commend a Minister for Water and this House in 2002 when they came up with water sector reforms. This provided a basis for improvement of water provision. But the need for alignment of these reforms to constitutional provisions now is very important. For that reason, I would like to support this Bill, especially when it comes to the management of water resource areas. We have many challenges here. We have been discussing the issue of climate change. As we endeavour to manage our resources and water catchment areas, we need to be sensitive about this. There should be participation by communities and institutions because water cannot be made a sectoral business. We should have some threshold interventions that all users must provide as a guarantee of protection of catchment areas. We have seen instances where service providers play with water resources. This should not be allowed to continue. We have seen people playing politics with water catchment areas. I think we need to tighten the provisions in this Bill to protect water from all adverse interventions, and to train our younger generations to learn to protect this resource. Every time we say water is life; but saying water is life alone is not enough. It is important for us to enable our younger Kenyans to appreciate the fact that water is life and, therefore, everyone needs to protect it. The Constitution has provided for participation of citizens of this country in all endeavours for development. In this regard, I would, particularly, like us to embrace cultural practices that communities have embraced for a long time, and which have sustained water provision and catchment areas. This is very important because our communities do not live in a vacuum. They have morals that have enabled them to sustain water resources. It is good for us to respect these and incorporate them in the management of water resources. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for us to achieve this, we need a lot of co- ordination. The co-ordination that has been proposed in this Bill is very encouraging; we have various authorities that will take care of various aspects of water management and service provision in the water sector. We have the fundamental promise that the Constitution has given Kenyans, and that is devolution. We need to find a place for this and do that very carefully. There should be an interface between the county governments and the national Government in the management of water. As you know, this country has entered into some conventions and agreements that are not sustainable and are hurting us like the agreement on the use of the River Nile waters. It is very important that we review such conventions and agreements, so that we can manage our water resources and service provision in the water sector in a sustainable manner. We are now experiencing challenges in food security and insecurity. These are fundamental and basic needs in human life. Water is central in these. It would be very important for us to create an interface between agriculture and water, so that we can have The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
strategic irrigation schemes that can enable us to have a sustainable food security programme. Water is central in all this. We have many times spent a lot of money in managing our infrastructure like our rural roads. When the rains come we are happy because they enable us to have food. However, the rains wash away roads. We are all the time using money to construct and repair roads. It is very important that when we are reviewing these policies we see how we can invest strategically even in the construction and management of all-weather roads. This way we will not have water which is not managed, and which washes away our roads. In Shinyalu Constituency, we have rain 330 days in a year. Our roads are bad because the rains wash them away. We love rain because it sustains our forests and gives us food. However, the side effects of washing away roads make it impossible for our people to do business and move around. It is important for us to plan, so that we have a properly co-ordinated investment in the management of water. Here I am talking about water collection. We can have proper drainage systems that can collect water that is always running on the roads and direct it to areas that need it for irrigation. This way, we will have both food and roads as well. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this Bill. I support.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Thank you for supporting. Yes, hon. Sunjeev Birdi. It is not hon. Mbadi, the Member for Suba.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to talk about a Bill that does not touch on only one constituency or a county, but one that talks about the whole country. I have particularly been in areas in our country where people tell me: “We know that we got Independence in 1963.” The moment we give them water, whether it was in 1993 or 2014, they will tell us that: “Today is when we see independence because we have water”. I would also like to say that I am in the Departmental Committee on Environment and Natural Resources. Water is a very important thing, not only in our country or any county, but around the world. What happens? People fight over water. So, we must put systems in place; this is exactly what the Water Bill is doing now. It is putting systems in place. Last week I was in Garissa for our Committee work. We had a Member of Parliament, Mhe. Dukicha of Galole and his people were crying for water.
Tana River? Kabisa; I am sorry. I am mixing Kiswahili with English. I should not be doing that. We went into that constituency to look into the water problem and other problems that it had. If there is any country that will fight over water, it is our country. We must put this into consideration and make sure every county has a share of water. Today, we are fighting for devolution. You can talk about health or whatever. Every Member of Parliament is saying this service called “health” or “water” is not fully devolved. I am a member of the Departmental Committee on Environment and Natural Resources; I support this Bill completely. However, what we must look at is how we implement it. Implementation is very important. Since 2013, when we look at issues of women we always try to find out what their problems are. I have not seen a man going for water; I only see a woman or her child The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
going to fetch water from, maybe, ten kilometres away. We must make sure that water gets to the right place, because without it we will be overlooking the concept of devolution. The moment my son or my daughter, gets to a water point quickly, that child will go to school quickly. This Bill is, therefore, very important.
Amina Abdalla, the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Environment and Natural Resources, whom I really respect very much, has already given the pros and cons of this Bill and I support it. Yes, water is a natural resource. If somebody or a Member of Parliament comes up today and says that there is a huge wage bill because of water, I will completely disagree with them. There is nothing that the huge wage bill has to do with this Water Bill. Water is a natural resource not only for me but for all the citizens of this country. We must, therefore, make sure that water gets to the right people at the right time. When talking about water, there is no question of tyranny of numbers. Everybody wants water wherever they are. With those remarks, I support this Bill whole-heartedly.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Thank you for the passion you have for water. Hon. Members, I have several requests. I am very surprised that most of the Members interested in speaking on this Bill are women. Proceed, hon. Hellen Chepkwony.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I stand here to support the Water Bill. As you know, water is essential in our lives. We know very well that parts of our country lack water while others have some water. For example, where I come from, we have water and forests. However, people in that area do not benefit because there is no law which guarantees them water in their homes. For example, all the water that emanates from the Mau catchment area drains off to Egypt, where it is utilised properly because there is legislation about water use. Egypt is a dry country but they have enough food. In Kenya, we have plenty of water but people in some areas suffer from drought. They have no food because we do not have a proper water management framework. Therefore, I support this Bill because if water is managed properly in this country, we will not have food shortages. We will not be importing food commodities in the manner we are currently doing. For example, we import rice when we can grow it through irrigation. It is just a matter of managing our water resources. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, even if it means spending a lot of money--- If we can guarantee everybody getting water in this country, we will be ready to sacrifice a lot for water for everybody, because we know that we will solve many problems facing our people. For example, the northern part of this country experiences frequent droughts. When rain comes, it washes away the entire area. Since the run-off water is not managed, it destroys everything. Later on, drought sets in and wipes out livestock. So, we have droughts and nothing else because of lack of a water management framework. We have to understand that in some areas women have to cover distances of up to 20 kilometres to get water for their families. Surely, when will they do other jobs? Moreover, the water that they take home is usually not even enough for the family’s use – The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
cooking food and washing clothes, amongst other uses. All this is caused by our failure to mange water resources in this country. We do not have proper laws to help us have sufficient water in our homes. In Kenya, there is a lot of water. For example, you find that people living along Tana River have no food because there is no proper irrigation system. If we adopt an irrigation system, we will produce enough food in this country. Even herdsmen will not fight for water because they will be having enough water. It is a big shame for the country to have people fighting for water when we have a lot of rivers. It is just a matter of directing the water to where the people are. If we do that, you will not find people fighting for water all the time. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I hope that those who will be given the responsibility of managing our water resources will implement this Bill properly once it becomes law. We would not want to see some parts of the country having water and others not having water. Once we pass this Bill, every county must make sure that their residents have enough water in every village in order for us to solve the problems of people fighting for water, lack of food and many others. With those remarks, I beg to support.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Thank you; well spoken. Proceed, Member for Mbooni
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this Bill. I concur with my colleagues that water is a very important natural resource, especially in the 21st Century; we should not be talking of areas where water has become so scarce that it is even leading to community unrest, drought and food shortage. From the outset, I would like to say that I support the Bill because it is timely. Its theme is well grounded within the principles of equitable distribution of our resources. For quite a long time, many communities in this country have been marginalised and disadvantaged either by design or default. Some resources have never gotten to the citizens of those areas, because there has never been equality in their distribution. Having, critically, looked at the Bill, I realise that its passage into law will streamline issues to do with water management and many other issues relating to water as a very important natural resource. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, in some of the areas we come from – like Makueni County – where the rainfall pattern is very unreliable, water is a serious problem. That is why for us, the people of Makueni County and Mbooni Constituency in particular, this Bill appears to be a God-sent opportunity for us to start accessing water. I hope that once this Bill is passed into law, it will be taken seriously and implemented. For example, we have an issue of the multi-purpose Dam, which is supposed to be done in Makueni. The passage of this Bill is very important, as it will address the problem of projects being used for political gain by those in power. Looking at the Government’s commitment, the implementation of the Thwake Multi-purpose Dam is wanting. This is one of the most important projects in this country, and it should have been given full attention by the Government. It should be funded adequately because once completed, it will change the lives of not only the people of Makueni County but all the people within Ukambani region, where water scarcity has been a serious problem. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Secondly, once this Bill is enacted into law, it will enhance coordination of water services as one of the main resources in this country. When you look at it, it is talking about issues of governance and management of water. This is in reference to harvesting of water. It addresses very fundamental issues, especially the sustainable mechanisms on how we can harvest water through the Water Management Boards. In addition, the Bill talks about the administration of water as a resource. When it comes to health, water is a very significant resource especially when we are talking of waterborne diseases. We need water seriously, so that we can address the challenges of health. This Bill, through the Regulatory Authority, will ensure that water is administered in such a way that it will help address some of the key issues that are affecting this country, especially in the health sector.
Further, this Bill also talks about the provision and utilization of water as a resource. This is paramount because we know that issues pertaining to water have previously been administered in a very amorphous manner. This has resulted to serious challenges, especially for those who live in Nairobi and other areas. There has never been a proper mechanism which is sustainable, viable and seeks to address the utilization and provision of water to every Kenyan. If in the 21st Century we are still talking about Kenyans in Nairobi not having water or that in Makueni, about 200 kms from Nairobi, the citizens are grappling with how to access clean water, that defeats common logic in a nation that we are very proud of. Where is this country heading to?
I have quite a number of reservations on this Bill and will be looking at it critically because it is creating very many institutions. We have the County Water Boards, the Water Trust Fund, the Water Service Regulatory Authority and the Natural Water Harvesting Storage Authority. We must be careful not to create so many institutions that will end up creating confusion during the implementation stage. The institutions that we are creating will eat into the Exchequer. We are going to fund salaries. We are going to have resources to manage. The most important thing is to ensure that water is readily accessible to every Kenyan. We should not pass a Bill that will provide that almost 40 per cent of all the administrative and recurrent expenditure go into issues of management of the water resource. From the word go, this is a very critical Bill. I want to support it because I come from a region where I know the problems of water. Our mothers and ourselves have been serious victims in terms of trying to access water. At times, we had to forgo our sleep, wake up at 4.00 a.m. and walk about 24 kilometers to get water; then come back home with the water and go to school. Our mothers have seriously been affected. Therefore, this is a Bill that I would support without any reservations at all. It is the right way to go at this juncture. Lastly, in this country, water is one of the key things that we should be very serious with and ensure that every Kenyan has access to clean water at their disposal in this century.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu)
Thank you, hon. Temporary Speaker for giving me an opportunity to support this particular Bill. In support of the Bill, I wish to start by saying that, it is a pity that 51 years after Kenya’s attainment of Independence, we have areas in this country where the right to life of Kenyans is highly compromised largely because of lack of access to water. One of the major sources of distress for me as a County Member, as I do my rounds in the county, every single day, I am confronted by cries for water, particularly from the womenfolk. We know that they are at the ones at the centre of the use and even distribution of water, both for the consumption of their families and the consumption of their domestic animals, which is the source of livelihood for most of our communities. Water, needless to say, is at the core of food security in this country. It is a key component or element that facilitates Kenyans’ enjoyment of their right to life. On the same breath, it is a major source of conflict. A few days ago in my own ward in Narok South Constituency, in particular Naroosura/ Majimoto Ward, we had a near serious bloodshed because of lack of coordination and regulation on how both upstream and downstream users can co-exist and have adequate access to water in a way that serves all of them. I am very happy to see that in this particular Bill, we will have an elaborate dispute resolution mechanism through the establishment of a water tribunal.
The other thing is that water touches the core of the right to the highest attainable standards of health for Kenyans, which is a fundamental human right. It is only yesterday that we saw a lady from Baringo who cannot walk or sustain her family because of an illness that has been as a result of lack of water. She has been reduced to breaking some stones for sale in order to sustain her family just because of lack of access to quality water. That was at Kambi Samaki in Baringo where the residents are seriously affected by the problem of scoliosis due to the lack of clean and quality water for their consumption. I support this particular Bill. However, I will have more time to scrutinize it, so that when we are doing a toothcomb analysis at the Third Reading, we can make sure that we have a water tight legislation which provides a well coordinated way in which we can manage and regulate the usage and management of water resources in this country. I wish to highlight the fact that one of the major advantages of the provisions of this Bill, which are of importance for all of us to note, is the provision for water access for marginalized communities. We have a provision for the establishment of a Water Sector Trust Fund, which specifically talks about the need for community level initiatives to be supported through both conditional and unconditional grants. Through these grants, I believe, we shall make sure that the suffering of our people at the grassroots level is drastically reduced if this is well coordinated and well managed. One precaution that I have, like most of my colleagues have already indicated, is that we need to make sure that we are not coming up with a law with a lot of red tape in the form of too many institutions, too many people involved in its implementation and operationalisation, which can compromise the implementation of the law to make sure that we have quality provision of water services to our people. As I conclude my contribution, I also wish to say that I have not seen a provision in terms of the gender consideration in the institutions that are established in this particular Bill. I wish to say that gender consideration is very critical. I have already said The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
that the reality on the ground is that women are at the core of water use and management. Where we have droughts hitting our communities, and where we have people suffering for lack of water, women suffer a double blow because of their critical role in the food production sector in this country, and also in taking care of their families. I will, therefore, be looking out for a requirement that in each of the institutions that we are creating in this particular Bill, we will have an express provision to make sure that the constitutional requirement for the two-thirds is adhered to. This will help us as we begin to make sure that we operationalise the constitutional provisions, which require us to make sure that not more than two-thirds of any appointive or elective body in this country are of the same gender. It is an issue of development for this country and not a women issue that we always want to trivialise. It is an issue of development and ensuring that every Kenyan gets an equal opportunity to participate and to benefit from all the development initiatives in this country. With those few remarks, I support.
Thank you. Member for Ruiru, you have the Floor.
Asante sana mhe. Spika wa Muda kwa kunipatia nafasi hii ili nichangie Mswada huu. Mambo ambayo yako mbele yetu ni muhimu sana kwa kila binadamu. Kama tunavyojua kwa kila mtu, maji yakitajwa anahisi kwamba ni kitu ambacho anahitaji. Tukiendelea kuangalia mambo kuhusu maji, ninajua kila mmoja katika eneo la uwakilishi Bungeni la Ruiru anaangalia aone ni kitu gani nitasema kuhusu maji. Lakini shida ya maji iko katika Kenya nzima. Ningependa kuongea kidogo kuhusu akina mama ambao wanasumbuka zaidi na jambo hili la maji. Hata kama tutakuwa tukiyashughulikia mambo haya katika kaunti, ninahuzunika zaidi ni kikumbuka kwamba ukifika katika maeneo ya Ruiru, Mwiki, Githurai na Mwihoko, utakuta akina mama wanachota maji kwa mitungi. Kwa hivyo, masaa mengi yanapotezwa na akina mama wakitafuta maji. Pesa nyingi zinatumika katika mipango hiyo na ni shida kubwa sana pesa hizo kufikia mwananchi wa kawaida. Ninasema kwamba ni vizuri tuwe na wataalamu ambao watasomesha watu kuhusu njia nzuri za kuhifadhi maji, hata kama ni maji ya mvua. Mhe. Naibu Spika wa muda, ninaomba kwa heshima--- Mwenzangu, mhe. Millie Adhiambo-Mabona, ameongea mbele yangu lakini mimi sio yeye. Naomba kwamba, tafadhali hatutaki mipango hii--- Kuna watu ambao tunawahitaji sana sisi ambao tuko karibu hapa; kuna kampuni ya maji ya Nairobi. Kitu ambacho tunacho ni huzuni kwa sababu majina ni makubwa lakini kazi ni kidogo. Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda, ni jambo la kuhuzunisha sana tukisema kwamba tunataka kupitisha Mswada hapa na wale tunaowapitishia, ambao ni wananchi wa kawaida, hata hawafikiwi na maji. Naomba, hata kama tunasema maji yatakuwa yakisimamiwa na kampuni ya maji ya Nairobi, ni vizuri tujue kwamba huko tunakosimamia kunaenda maji kwa mwananchi wa kawaida. Tuweza kuwa na maji katika miji na tunapatiwa maji. Kuna yule ambaye yuko pale mashinani, hata akisikia mkiongea kuhusu maji, machozi yanamtiririka kwa sababu kuyapata maji ni vigumu. Ule mpango utakaopangwa usipangiwe tu kwa wale watu ambao wanaonekana mijini, lakini tuangalie hata wale ambao wako mashinani ndio waweze kufikiwa na maji. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Pia, tuangalie wakati tunapanga mipango hiyo, isitumie pesa nyingi hata watu wetu wakakosa maji. Sipingi Kampuni ya maji ya Nairobi, lakini nauliza kazi yao katika eneo Bunge la Ruiru ni ipi? Watu wametaabika, na kubeba maji machafu. Watu wengine wameenda kwa mashimo ya mijengo kuchota maji kwa sababu wana shida. Tafadhali, nikiunga mkono Mswada huu, nawaomba washughulikie suala hilo na wajue kwamba mwananchi wa kawaida analia usiku na mchana kwa sababu ya maji. Akina mama wameumia na migongo yao inauma kwa sababu ya kubeba maji. Tafadhali tuongee hapa Bungeni na pia tufikishe maji pale mashinani. Asante mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda; ninaunga mkono Mswada huu.
Thank you. Let me go to my left. Member for Siaya, you have the Floor.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity. I want to say that water is a problem throughout the country, and it is not just at home where people do not have enough water. The sad thing is that water is necessary and sometimes we do not have water even in hospitals. Those who have patients in hospitals carry water to their sick loved ones. What a shame! Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, schools do not have water. Therefore, students draw water from the river. They waste a lot of time when they are supposed to be in class; they draw water from the river. It is very painful to see students wasting too much time drawing water. Patients do not have water at home, yet we have the Ministry in charge of water. Let me ask, what do they do? What does the Ministry do? What do they do with the money allocated every year in their budget? You may create bodies to manage water, but if water is not available, what are you going to manage? Let them provide water first, and then come up with institutions that will manage it. As we speak, we will be creating bodies and institutions to provide management for water, which does not exist. We also have Non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs) that sink boreholes, but these NGOs are also not well spread. You find them concentrated in areas where there is water already. When you want them to come and help you sink some boreholes, they tell you that they do not operate in your area. I really think there is a huge mismanagement of water in this country, yet we are not getting anywhere near water. In the Lake Victoria area, where I come from, we have a huge lake. It is one of the best fresh water lakes in the world, yet we still lack water.
Lake Victoria, where I come from, is a huge lake. It is one of the best waters in the world, yet we still lack water. I see women drawing water from ponds after the rain and it is all brown and green. Women draw water from there and yet there is a fresh water lake there; yet there is the Ministry of Water and the district water--- I do not know the names because the names have changed over time. But we have institutions that manage water already from the old system moving on to what we now have in the new Constitution. It is all devolved and yet they are not able to manage water at all. My biggest worry is that we are creating institutions to manage water over and over again. They are too many. We are so confused and I do not know where to go to when I need water. Therefore, much as I support this Bill, I still want to caution that we better be The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
careful because we are coming with institutions that will not manage any single drop of water because there is no water anywhere anyway.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the Water Bill, National Assembly Bill No. 8 of 2014, as presented to the House for the Second Reading. I lost my voice this weekend trying to answer questions by the women of Kibwezi Constituency, Makueni County where there is no water. The question was: With this Government, where is water? The problem of Kibwezi Constituency, Makueni County, is water. Number two problem is water. Number three problem is water. Number four, five up to infinity is water. Article 43(1) (d) of the Constitution spells out very well the economic and social rights of every Kenyan. I want to quote for Kenyans “Every person has the right to clean and safe water in adequate quantities.” When we look at the Water Act, 2002 and Article 62, it talks about the right to clean water. It has not talked much about the availability and this is one of the problems we are facing even as we talk about equalisation. In my constituency, I may give some few facts, that my women walk for about five to six kilometres just to get a 20 litre water jerrycan. The women go through the risk of sexual abuse on their way. My girls whom I represent do not go to school because of lack of water. Having worked in the water sector, I think we need to look at the issues very well because I know we will come with amendments from the Committee. I am thankful that the Committee Chair is a lady and I am impressed by the contributions of the ladies in this House to the Water Bill because most of the problems that come with water are really borne by the women. Of course, we are not saying that men are not involved. When I take water to my family, children and husband, all of them use it. As for the quality of water, we are talking about access to quality water. In some areas like Kibwezi, we do not have water, not just safe drinking water; even dirty water is not available.
Affordability is very important. We have many cartels. When I used to give water to your constituency especially Mathare, I remember the people of Mathare and Kibera; we used to talk about safety of water and sanitation. In Mathare Constituency like you very well said, we lack sanitation and this leads to poor health. I am not contributing for the people of Mathare but I am a national figure. But majorly I am talking about Kibwezi where people walk four to five kilometres; they wake up in the morning and you see donkeys criss-crossing everywhere. Women carry their babies on their backs and when they get the 20 litre jerrycan, the babies are moved to the front. They walk five kilometres from their homes. This is time wasted and I am sure with the amendment that we are going to bring--- We are also asking the Government to see what it can do to the places that have no water. We are talking about resources but there are places that need attention as of now. On affordability, because of the cartels, water costs a lot of money. At the time it is being availed, a jerrycan will cost Kshs.50 to Kshs60 shillings. The cartels are taking advantage of the scarcity of water. I want to appreciate the efforts that we have done in Kibwezi. I hope they will support me on this so that we can have water. Most of you go to Mombasa, when you get to Kibwezi on your way to Mtito Andei, you will see many The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
water kiosks on the way and of course many jerrycans; countless 20 litre jerrycans. They queue as if they are going for manna from heaven. Accessibility is also very important. I will be the first one to bring an amendment to this Bill so that we can have accessibility and affordability for the people of this country. Sanitation should be taken care of. When you look at most of our people who stay in the slums, there is lack of sanitation and a lot of health issues arise. When you go to Kibera, it is an alarming issue because of poor sanitation. The Water Act, 2002 read together with Article 43(1)(d) of the Constitution, when we bring amendments, I am sure we are going to do well. As we do this, we should also look at the water levels. In my constituency, we are looking for boreholes but the water levels are too low. Of course, we cannot compare ourselves with other places. So, when we will be looking at this; as we look at the means and ways of giving water to our people in terms of maybe pipeline extensions, water tanks and water dams, it is important to consider such places. I want to cry in this House for the people of Makueni County. Sometimes when you see us fighting, it is not just a fight. We are fighting because of the problems that we have. I want to ask the Government to really look into the issues and come in handy to ensure that even after fighting, we have a lot of water. We do not fight for nothing. We fight for our issues to be addressed. Water in Kibwezi, Makueni County is a problem. I know we will come up with amendments. I must thank the women of this country, Members of Parliament, the Chair of the Committee who is a woman and of course the men who care for the women in this House. They want to ensure that water is available, reachable, safe and affordable. I support the Water Bill.
Hon. Members, I think we have had three or so full sessions on this Bill. The time to move is now. I understand that there are other issues of national importance and so I want to call upon the Mover to reply. Hon. Member for North Horr, are you the Mover of the Bill?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am standing in for my Chairlady, hon. Amina Abdalla, to reply on her behalf. I am a member of her Committee.
It is okay. Proceed.
Thank you so much for this opportunity to reply to this Bill. First, I want to thank all the hon. Members of this august House who have contributed passionately and in a very rich way to this Bill. Water is life and the engagement the hon. Members have had with this Bill is very evident how serious they have taken it. We have heard the concerns of hon. Members and we will make sure that as we do our amendments, we will take those critical considerations into our amendments and ensure that those issues are taken care of. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I want the hon. Members to appreciate that the reason as to why we are having this Water Bill, 2014 is to align the water sector with the new Constitution. Water is largely a devolved function yet it is also a shared function with the national Government. When we talk of water protection, securing sufficient residual water, hydraulic engineering, safety of the dams, disaster management or large basin area management, all these are still functions of the national Government. Our county governments also have some major functions such as water conservation, The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
sanitation services which are daily water provision and sanitation, storm water management systems as well as disaster management. So, this Bill, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker is to ensure that we have institutions that are able to deliver on the national functions at the national front and at the same time, leave the functions of the county governments to the county systems and structures and with their laws to deliver on their functions. I am saying this because of issues raised by the hon. Members in their contributions. Water regulation remains the function of the national Government. So, that is why we have such an extensive and lengthy Bill and if you saw, our report is very detailed. The amendments that are coming could make it even more detailed as we try and separate these core functions of our national and county governments. With those few remarks, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker Sir, I beg to move.
Hon. Alfred Keter, Member for Nandi Hills, what is it?
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I beg to move that this House adjourns so that we deliberate on this issue of insecurity that has caused many Kenyans to lose lives. I want to say first and foremost that I congratulate hon. Members who supported me early this afternoon so that we adjourn and discuss this issue as a matter of national importance. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, most Kenyans are really complaining about insecurity across the country, all the way down in Malindi, Mombasa and now along the Baringo-Turkana border where over 20 police officers lost their lives. Majority of Kenyans at the moment are scared yet when you see the approach that is being taken by the police and those responsible---
Those responsible are taking this issue so casually. We want to see the Government taking responsibility because it is its responsibility to ensure that the lives of all Kenyans are protected. They should not be seen to be transferring blame to organisations or communities. We want to see the culprits or criminals who are causing Kenyans to lose lives face prosecution so that we can have a secure nation. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, at the moment most investors are scared of investing in this country because of this issue that is touching or making most Kenyans not to be free and secure to move. It is not easy for an investor to walk into a country where lives are at risk. I know, if you remember this afternoon when I moved this Motion of Adjournment, there is an hon. Member who rose to say that we have discussed this matter a number of times. Most hon. Members are saying we have adjourned almost 40 times since this 11th Parliament came into being last year to discuss insecurity. It is sad that this issue has been of national importance for the last two years since we became Members of this august House and there is no solution. You see the people who are responsible shifting blame and taking this issue so casually. We saw what happened in Westgate Mall. We have seen many issues in Lamu and now in the entire Coast and even in the Rift Valley where at the moment people are scared in their homes wondering whether they will have peaceful nights. There are curfews all over in some regions where Kenyans are not free in their own country. I took it as a matter of concern as a Kenyan citizen and now as a Member of Parliament because we are responsible as leaders to ensure that we discuss these issues and get a solution. When you see top Government officials transferring blame, then it is a serious concern. If we cannot protect lives, then we have no reason to lead this nation.
It is upon the people in charge to ensure that we have security. I want to repeat that they cannot act in a manner likely to suggest that they are shifting blame to other quarters. This is because they have the responsibility. They sit in those offices to ensure that we have enough intelligence on these security issues and to give solutions so as to protect Kenyans. No Kenyan or anybody has the power to take another person’s life. Even in my own constituency of Nandi Hills, I have lost over ten lives since I became a Member of Parliament yet the security forces are taking it so casually. They blame some organisations, communities and individuals. If it is political, we want to see the politicians who are involved getting jailed so that we have a solution.
If it is businessmen who want to use these insecurity issues for their benefit, we want to see the security forces taking responsibility and arresting those people so that this country can be peaceful and thus encourage more investors. We want Kenyans to do their economic activities. In some regions in Kenya, when pupils and students were sitting for their Kenya Certificate of Primary Education (KCPE) and Kenya Certificate of Secondary Education The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
(KCSE), others could not because of insecurity. Some pupils have been in primary schools for over eight years yet they could not sit their examinations.
If it is a question of the leadership from the Cabinet Secretaries, the Inspector- General or the National Police Commission, let people be sacked. They should resign from these positions, so that we can get a solution. If individuals are involved, we want to see them arrested. Kenyans who lost their relatives in the Westgate attack and in the Lamu attacks are not sleeping because they want to see justice. They are fighting for the lives of the relatives that they lost. I call upon the hon. Members to sober up on this issue and call a spade a spade. Let us raise this issue without emotions and try to give a solution. Let us take responsibility even as hon. Members. If there is anything that we should have done, because we are responsible for budgeting, that we did not do, to ensure that they have enough resources, then, we should be ready to take responsibility. Again, when we give the National Police Service Commission money, they should use it for the right cause. Let them remunerate their officers well. If it is about buying vehicles to ensure that the police officers are moving, let them do that. Because of time, I want my brother hon. Nassir Abdullswamad, to second. Thank you.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I would like to pass my appreciation to my brother, hon. Alfred Keter for bringing this Motion to the House. If there is anything that has probably received more reason for adjournment in this House, then they are issues to do with security and insecurity in general in this country. This in itself should be a wake-up call to the Government on how serious this House takes these matters. In as much as we know that we have the bad elements amongst us, there is no society where there is no bad element. My concern is the reaction that the security forces have undertaken. We have now seen roadblocks being turned into toll stations. After the Westgate attack, independent reviews and sources were clear enough to indicate and to prove that the residents of Eastleigh ended up being profiled. After the Lamu incident, the most that has happened is a curfew that is now lasting four months. After Kapedo, the most that is happening right now is that the Kenya Defence Forces are going in and the reaction that is going on is bad. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, allow me to speak on behalf of the constituents of Mvita and Mombasa. For some reason, the security forces have now decided to come up with an unlawful state of emergency that, by seven o’clock in the evening, people are not allowed to step out of their houses. You start to wonder what words you can use to console a parent whose child has been arrested and tomorrow they have to go and do examinations. You wonder what you are going to tell a newlywed couple who spent a night in jail and the people who were out there celebrating their wedding. You wonder what words you are going to tell people who simply gathered somewhere and some officer decided that they were not meant to be there. This is the state and the situation that we are in. I have said it before, that it is impossible for all of us to be bad. I have actually The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
said this as well, that the rate at which we are currently moving with mass arrests and swoop the only thing that this House will need to pass is budgets to build more prisons and cells. This House is going to be judged. We are going to be judged whether we were architects of positive change or whether we were architects of decay. This House is going to be judged because some of us have raised these issues in this very House. I have raised issues severally regarding people who have gone missing and those who have been killed mysteriously. For the record, we stand at almost 45 people just within this year alone. This Government is actually holding a record for number of unknown deaths and disappearance acts that have happened. As much as time is not on my side, I have also raised issues in this very House regarding the Nyumba Kumi and the Balozis on how they are going to be implemented regarding security. Right now, nothing has been forthcoming despite the fact that one of my own wazee wa mitaa was shot dead recently within Mvita Constituency. This Government needs to act. It should not even act now. It should have acted from yesterday. The reaction time that is going on is unbelievably slow and we tend to wonder as to whether they are not seeing the impact and the importance of the situation.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I am a Member of the Committee on Administration and National Security of this House. I must say that even as Committee Members, who are your colleagues here, we are very concerned. Individually, I am also concerned about the state of insecurity in our country. The issue of security is every citizen’s involvement. However, the Ministry that is charged with the responsibility of providing security in this country is performing at a level that we are also very concerned. As a Committee, we have brought our reports to this House often, which bring to light the grievances or the challenges that that department is facing. You sent us out there in the field to collect information to file reports and we realized that the whole country is in a state of panic. We need to take urgent actions, especially at the Executive level. They need to see whether there is a problem in the Ministry or it is the individuals who are serving there who are unable to discharge their duties. My brother, hon. Keter has enumerated several incidences. He has not raised all of them. We have come across a number of them. My own County of Baringo is now on fire, so to say. Lives are being lost both from the security officers and the civilians. In fact, when you look at it, it is like the security forces are being disarmed by civilians to the extent that several guns fell into the hands of civilians, yet it is only the licensed officers who are supposed to have arms. We need to sit down as a country and come up with a very clear strategy on how we are going to consider issues of disarming.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, we need to sit as a country and come up with a clear strategy on how we can consider issues of disarmament. It is no longer a partly disarmament issue, but rather a comprehensive one. We should ask ourselves what we will do with these citizens and how we can engage them so that they stop the trigger- happy use of guns to get resources. The message should be clear that the only people who are allowed to carry guns are licensed officers. The rest of the civilians should not The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
have arms. They should also be guaranteed protection so that people do not arm themselves for fear of their own security.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this Motion. The issue of insecurity is becoming critical in this nation. People have lost lives in every corner of this nation; for example in Garissa, Mombasa, Turkana and Kisumu. The reason why we have a Government in place is to ensure lives and properties of Kenyans are protected. When a civilian holds the security of the nation to ransom, then the security of that nation is at stake; it beats logic and everybody is aware of this. If we lose one security officer who apparently is supposed to secure the security of more than 450 citizens in Kenya, what about if we lose 25 security officers, how many Kenyans will be insecure? It is as if almost all Kenyans are insecure. In Canada, if one police officer is killed, all machinery of the Government like the army is brought out to ensure whoever participated in that act has been brought to book. When our President visited Kapedo and ordinary mwananchi stood before the President and told him that they killed 22 security officers and they were sorry because apparently they did not know that those were security officers, it is unfortunate. The elder did not know he was talking to the President who is the Commander-In-Chief of the Armed Forces. Does it mean there are Kenyans who are licensed to kill other Kenyans? Is there a community licensed to kill? I am wondering if those are the people who are expected to live in Kenya. Two weeks ago, three GSU officers and one woman who worked with Tullow were killed and something was done to her private parts by another civilian, even after producing Kshs.60,000. This is the time the Government should take control of the security of this nation. Some of the pastoral communities have been having illegal arms and they have been given enough time to continue killing security officers. It is high time the Government took action. Kenyans are listening and we want those who killed 20 security officers to be arrested. It should not only be about returning guns and uniforms but they should be stopped lest they continue to kill others. The first thing KDF was supposed to do is to arrest the killers. I am a pastoralist and I condemn anybody who shoots at a security officer, be it my brother or my neighbour. We have to respect security officers because they protect civilians. If they can kill security officers, how many civilians will be killed? The reason why we respect the President is because of the security surrounding him and his escort. What will Kenyans say if the President’s security men are killed?
I want to conclude by saying that KDF should continue with their work until all civilians know and recognize that there is a Government in Kenya.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity. We are discussing an important issue this afternoon and it is not the first time for us to discuss this issue. We have discussed about insecurity in several instances in this House. This is confirming that our strategy on security in this country has failed. If we can suspend issues and agenda for today to discuss insecurity, how long shall we be adjourning the House to discuss matters of insecurity in this House? Is it true that even if we talked like this nobody would take action, neither the security department nor its agencies? We come from communities that are suffering today, those who are being tortured and inflicted. To be specific, I want to protest on one-sided operation. Pokots and Turkanas live in this country. Both communities have guns. Why would the Government disarm Pokots and leave Turkanas and where will the Pokots go? If our brothers descend on us, where will we go? That is why some hon. Members from those communities are very happy and they are shouting on top of their voices encouraging KDF to continue torturing other people. The people being tortured in Kapedo are Kenyans, they are not animals. We do not encourage anybody to kill anyone, be it security officers or civilians. What happened in Baragoi? Forty security officers were killed in Baragoi by communities of some leaders who are shouting on top of their voices that KDF should continue killing our people in Kapedo. There are 40 guns that are being used to massacre and kill Pokots. Why are the 40 guns being used to kill innocent Kenyans? It is on record that there was no operation during that time by the same Government.
When you talk about it now, you want to point fingers on one community as if that community is not part of this country; as if this community has no title deed to this country. Nobody applied to God to be in Kenya. God gave us this country and we need to live together as Kenyans. Let it be on record today in this House. I want to inform hon. Members where Kapedo is. Kapedo is in Baringo County. I want to tell you this---
This hon. Member will be heard. Everybody has a right to say something and as long as these discussions are parliamentary, I will allow him to be heard.
Yes, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I have a right to be heard. For Kenya to remember and to know because you do not understand, I want to tell you this: Kapedo is like Lesotho in South Africa where South Africa is Pokot and Lesotho is Kapedo. So, where is that? It is in South Africa! Let us not beat about the bush. I respect the Inspector-General. He was the OCPD in Baringo. When he was OCPD, Kapedo was part and parcel of Turkana County. What I am saying as a way forward is that my Government has to immediately have a ceasefire in Kapedo and The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
withdraws KDF. They should not torture citizens of this country. You cannot torture your own citizens. This is our own government. We do not want---
Order! Sit down! Can you resume your seat? Sit down! Hon. Members when I am on my feet you freeze and keep quite.
Hon. Member for Turkana South you will be punished. Say a word more and you get it.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I stand to support this very important Motion and in doing so---
Help us to cool down the tempers.
Yes, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I thank hon. A. Keter for bringing this Motion. If the events taking place in Baringo, Mombasa and all the other areas is not a clarion call for the Government to take action, then I do not know what it is. The cardinal responsibility of any Government is to provide security for the citizens and protection of their property. It is very surprising when I see hon. Members from the two communities shouting and pointing fingers at each other and we are talking about national security. It means they are very guilty. They should be called to account. The peace in this country should emanate from leaders; they should preach peace for their people. It is important and I want this Motion to send a very powerful message to the Government. The communities which are practising cattle rustling must be disarmed. All of them!
It should be all of them and it should be simultaneous. All of them! We should create a law making cattle rustling a capital punishment. It will be very important for us as a nation to start thinking of how to safeguard this country. We are almost losing this country. You remember when the late hon. Michuki was in charge, the security of this country was properly taken into consideration. A lecturer walks in the street doing his own business and he is attacked by a mob and killed, yet a County Commissioner says we could not send the police because we did not want to provoke the public. The job of the police is to provoke so that it can arrest criminals. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
We cannot allow this to happen, today or tomorrow. From tomorrow we want the Government to move to Samburu, Baringo, Turkana and Pokot and arrest people. If it is possible arrest even the hon. Members if they are involved.
You cannot be leading cattle rustlers; you should be leading people who believe in peace. In Kajiado County, long time ago, Maasai used to practise cattle rustling but we made law which is better than the Supreme Court law. If you steal any cow in Maasai land and it arrives at your location, you are responsible for it. How then can police be killed by people and somebody comes to the President and says he thought these were Turkanas and those people are still outside? They should have been arrested. For the Turkanas also, we cannot forget what happened in Baragoi. We cannot forget.
My friend, when I speak, you do not speak. When I am speaking, you keep quiet.
You can speak to hon. Losiakou. You can challenge hon. Losiakous; you cannot challenge me.
Order! Hold on! That will be the last chance, hon. Member for Turkana South. Speak another word and you get it; Very last words from the Speaker’s Chair.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, in conclusion, I want to make a proposal and the Leader of Government Business is here. We want the Government to move with speed and disarm all these and we create a law to make cattle rustling capital punishment.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. First of all, I want to condemn the killing of our 20 police officers who lost their lives in the course of their duty in Kapedo. We condemn in every meaning of that word. We grieve with their families because as the former commander of these officers, it is really touching to lose officers in this kind of manner. We also condemn any officer in uniform who commits a crime of arson; a crime of burning houses in the course of duty. This has never been seen anywhere in the entire African Continent and so officers who do this must equally face the full force of the law. This weekend we were in Mombasa to get some briefing from the county security committee on the issue that took place in Nyali Barracks. We have had issues in Mpeketoni, Mandera and Moyale. In all these, even as the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security Committee, we have done our best to visit and you will get all the reports in Parliament. The operation that is going on has a few lapses and weaknesses. When you suspend a few provisions of The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Chapter 4, that is the Bill of Rights, you want to suspend the Constitution; the right to movement. Section 39(1) has been breached in this operation. Article 40(2(a) is on deprivation of property. About 60 shops were burnt and many people were actually beaten and maimed. So, this provision of the Constitution has been breached. The provision on Article 40 (3)(b) is on compensation, where if you have to take land or destroy some property, you must pay compensation. That has also been breached. On the right to human dignity, when officers enter houses that have babies, with teargas it means that part of the Constitution has been thrown out of the window, and this is highly unconstitutional. As we conduct the operation, because we support disarmament, the entire region should be disarmed but it should have what we call a human face. This operation should start simultaneously in Kapedo and in Turkana region. All places must be disarmed comprehensively and simultaneously. That is my position, that we need to disarm but let us not break the law as we conduct the exercise. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, last year alone I did my best with the Minister and we worked very closely with those who were in charge of the operation. We recovered 100 guns. I want to say, let us not target one community. We know we used to have operation Nyundo and Operation Dumisha Amani, but this operation looks like it is an Operation “ Kuangamiza Pokot ”. So, this must never be done that way but it must cover the entire region. We want this operation to be intelligence-led. I have worked very closely with the administration, to make sure that elders recover all the 22 firearms.
Member for Wajir.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I was a little bit worried because you are giving opportunities to more men. I think they are the ones leading the war in this country.
Member for Wajir, what did you say?
I withdraw, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
What are you withdrawing? Since I did not hear it, it is okay whatever you have withdrawn.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I think we are discussing a very serious issue and insecurity in this country has been discussed for too long and too many times. There is a major crisis in this country in terms of security and we should not watch this happening. As at yesterday, there was a report which was shared with some Members of Parliament and 80 per cent of Kenyans have said the Jubilee Government has failed in providing security to Kenyans. I think we are passing the buck. We are blaming communities but the Government has failed to protect Kenyans’ lives and property and we should regard insecurity in this country as a crisis. We should not dodge. We should not blame communities. We are not The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
arming ourselves. People are suffering. People are arming themselves because there is a failure by the State. We need to appreciate that. The other issue is that recently in Wajir we asked the security agents about the people they have arrested in connection with the many explosives we have experienced in Wajir County. The county has had over 100 explosions from 2013 to 2014. No one has ever been arrested and they have occurred in the Central Business District (CBD) of Wajir Town. You ask the security agents in the county who represent the National Intelligence Service (NIS), the Criminal Investigation Department (CID), the County Commissioners and they have no answers at all. You ask yourself: “If they do not have any information on all the explosions that took place in Wajir, why are they in the county using taxpayers’ money?” I think this is a question that Kenyans should ask. Recently, there was a media report where parents were guarding their children with guns. I think many Kenyans have watched that programme. Where is the Government in this scenario? It is a question we should ask. We are blaming communities because they have armed themselves because the State has failed. I think this House must make a drastic decision given that the security issue in this country is in crisis. It is endemic and we should address it because the State has failed. I support this Motion, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
If you want to be fair to your colleagues, and I hope Member for Samburu is listening, speak for as little time as you can so that other people are also able to say something. Give him the microphone.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I will speak as briefly as I can because I believe the Kenyan people need to know the truth about this cattle rustling thing. What we have here is utter dishonesty from members of different communities. We have had two different incidences in our country where a number of soldiers were killed. One is the recent one in Kapedo where 21 soldiers were killed. The other one is not far in memory; the Baragoi Massacre where 45 of our armed men from across our land were killed. If I might take you back, when those soldiers were killed in Baragoi it was none other than the Members of Parliament from the Turkana community that time; Ekwee Ethuro, the current Speaker of the Senate, Nanok, the Governor of Turkana County and hon. Munyes who is now a Senator, who went to the Press and said exactly what that Pokot elder said: “We went and killed those soldiers because we thought they were Samburu warriors.” That thing is on record and I want my friend, Lomenen to behave like a Member of Parliament because I want to give him respect.
Now Member for Samburu, just a minute, you are speaking about things which are on record. The Speaker has not seen those things which are on record and beyond that, do not say things which could be inflammatory. Speak facts and try to help the country get out of the problem.
All right. Your five minutes are over. Member for Baringo South!
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I appreciate this time that I have been given. I am one of the Members who have been affected since I was elected. Every time I go to my constituency, the messages that I read are that such and such number of animals have been stolen or have gone to the other end. It has been painful to me every time. I know that the country is watching and we want to refrain from inflaming the country. One thing that I want to say, as a Member from Baringo South, is that the act was done in Baringo. I want to take this opportunity to apologise to Kenyans and give out messages of condolences to the families and friends of the heroes who were slain in Kapedo. As I speak, so many people are in pain. We do not want to hear Members of Parliament saying that people are waiting to hear solutions from them. People have been complaining to the Press; moving from one radio station to the other saying that their community has been hurt or their houses have been burnt. I have heard of one Member of Parliament who had called a mkutano to say that 13,000 of his constituents are living in the dark. They have never slept for the last 10 years. That is equivalent to 2,711 families. They are living around the country. Some have moved to Laikipia and others areas. They are yearning to have peace in that constituency. The KDF should continue. They should be supported. They should be reinforced to be able to go round all the counties. We should reinforce the KDF and support the Government as it does so. When we say that they are brutalizing our people, we must know that even the bandits are killing the soldiers. We may be losing some soldiers now, but they are not able to tell us that they are losing their officers. We do not know what is happening with them. We want to support the Government. We want to tell the Government to continue as it has the support of the Kenyans. Today we heard the Chairman of the NSIS---
Order, hon. Kipchoim! Hon. Njagagua, what is the problem?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, with a lot of respect for the Mover of this Motion, hon. Keter, I would like to seek your direction on this. If I listened carefully to hon. Keter, he sought an adjournment, so that we could discuss issues of insecurity in this country. At the moment, we seem to be discussing cattle rustling between the Pokot and Turkana communities. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
We should not localize this Motion. Insecurity is all over in this country. In Mbeere North, someone was killed the other day and his body was dumped in the forest.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I want to say that the soldiers that were killed were coming from different parts of the nation. The killers never chose soldiers from Pokot, Turkana or any other place. As we speak, we are genuine that we want to support the Kenya Defence Forces to stay longer in Baringo and in all the borders of our land, right from Turkana, Samburu and everywhere, so that they can support the people. For the first time my people were telling me that they have slept in their houses, and maybe in the next three years, I will be called to open a nursery school because those were forgotten issues in my constituency. Thank you.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I also want to follow your cue in asking hon. Members to be calm about this. The issue we are talking about is a serious one. Let me inform the hon. Member just walking out that if it is about security, the hottest issue is this Turkana-Pokot thing. I want to speak to very few issues. It is sad to lose human beings. The number one responsibility of any government is to protect human life. That our soldiers get slayed like chicken, to me, 60 years after Independence, within our borders, is an utter shame. I want to plead with our colleagues to wake up to our calling. How did the military get to Kapedo area? The law is very clear; we have been talking about it. If our colleagues on the other side led by hon. A.B. Duale are silent on the law, the next time you will see the military will be on the streets of Nairobi and you will regret it. This argument where hon. Members from Turkana and Pokot are exchanging words on the Floor of the House should have been an argument before the military was deployed because that is what the law says. When you want to have the military help in enforcing peace, you must involve Parliament. We need to address the incapabilities of the police force. There is a structural problem in the police force. The problem is not even the military; the military is being sent to the wrong place at the wrong time but what is the police force doing? Where is the chain of command? Even in your constituencies, how is it that every robbery in Nairobi has an Administration Police person? It is because they have refused to report to the Inspector-General. They have refused to take the command. I want to plead with the two chairs, the Chairman of my Departmental Committee on Defence and Foreign Relations and the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security to avail time and sit down. The other day I saw the Government saying that there is no problem between the two. There is an obvious problem. You cannot have a District Commissioner in Baringo, Baragoi and wherever without the force to enforce the law. Let us be Members of Parliament and let us help the working of the Executive. We have a scenario where we have a law which we all negotiated. Let us just follow the law. But I want to suggest to our committees, the responsibilities and the onus is on Parliament. Let us guide this, the Inspector-General has issues. He cannot get the Administration Police to respond to him. If we are going to keep the District Commissioners, give them the police. If you cannot give them to the police, give them to the governors. Do something about it but the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
current thing is not working for us. Let us respond as a country because our people are dying. When the army goes to Pokot and burns houses, which house stole which cow? Which house killed which police? Wrong is wrong and right is right.
We have a duty as a country and we can do this. For 60 years, how come the Government has not established an army base there? What are Kahawa, Lang’ata and Eastleigh Barracks doing within the city centre? Move these people to where we have security problems. We can do this as a country. Instead of us abusing each other on the Floor of the House, let us provide solutions because we can. I agree they need to be disarmed. But you cannot disarm people who are insecure. The guns are their only protection. Let us put the police there then they say: “Now you have the gun to protect you which is monitored by Government, please live within.” Lastly, let us increase the Equalisation Fund from the 5 per cent to even 20 per cent because those people who live in those places live like they do not live in Kenya. Let us invest in infrastructure. Let us have a Government that has a human heart towards our people. Some of the conditions of the places where our people are living are deplorable. The Government and this Parliament can work together without going the way of bloodshed and we can achieve something. Very lastly, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, this country must rethink the county boundaries. I only beg for one minute so that I can make this point. It is important. It is a constitutional point. When we left Bomas of Kenya, we said we only needed 14 counties and we said we could afford them. What you are seeing is the beginning of bloodshed because most counties consist of one and a half clans. The small clans will always feel oppressed. I come from Siaya County. The lake is shared between four counties excluding Busia. If we continue to be counties, how will we divide the lake? Who will collect the levies? People will fight all over this country if people do not sit and talk because it is about resources. You hear what is happening in Makueni, Machakos and Kitui. They have never heard of war. All of a sudden there is war. Let us expand our borders. Let people live together, share what is being collected and there will be peace. I thank you.
All right. Thank you. The Leader of the Majority Party, proceed.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I want to join my colleagues in discussing this Motion on insecurity in our country. It is up to this House to decide how we can join hands with the Government in making sure that our borders are secure. In a secure environment, development will be achieved. On 1st November 2014, a vehicle carrying examination papers was attacked. Around that period, a Government security vehicle which was going to pull another Government vehicle was attacked. Nineteen police officers and two civilians, both of them teachers, were killed. About 2000 rounds of ammunition were taken. What is going on in Kapedo, Turkana region is after a decision that was made by the National Security Council that has the mandate. The National Police Service in conjunction with the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) are operating there within the contents of Article 241(3)(b) of our Constitution. Furthermore, on 5th December 2013 this House passed a Motion that was brought by hon. Chachu Ganya asking for the deployment of the KDF for the purposes of restoring peace and security, including averting further loss of lives and destruction, in The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Marsabit, Samburu, West Pokot and Turkana counties of the Republic of Kenya. This is the Motion.
So, the Government is acting within the Constitution. Further, if you read Article 241(3) (b) of the Constitution---
What is your point of order, Member for Gem?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am sorry for interrupting the Leader of Majority Party, but it is good to put the record straight because there are emotions. It is not good to misread the Constitution. I previously said that it is very dangerous to do so. Article 241(3)(b) says the military or the army shall assist and cooperate with other authorities in situations of emergency or disaster, and report to the National Assembly. If you read the Constitution selectively, you can lead people to war. The next sub-section of the Constitution says the army may be deployed to restore peace in areas affected by unrest or instability only with the approval of the National Assembly. We have to do this here. What the Leader of Majority Party is telling the nation is dangerous.
Proceed, Leader of Majority Party.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I have said that it is very clear, both in the spirit and the letter of the Constitution, under Article 241(3) (b). What is happening in Kapendo is an emergency. I want to confirm to the nation that the Government will bring a report to the National Assembly as per this Article of the Constitution. That is exactly what the Government did when terrorists invaded the West Gate Shopping Mall. This House received a report from the Government. So, it is intelligence led. A time has come for us to abandon the practice of stock theft and do business, as pastoralists, at the Nairobi Stock Exchange. Kenya has taken strides, under the new Constitution. The days when we butchered ourselves are gone. Communities have been killing each other. When they finished their own people, they started killing our security personnel. A time will come when every leader in this country – be it a Member of a county assembly or governor or Senator – will be accountable. A time will come, forgetting the general elections coming in 2017; when leaders will tell their communities that they are wrong. A time will come when you will tell the Government that it is wrong. I want to appeal to the leadership of those regions that we should not play to the gallery or to our voters. Let us face the reality. When there are conflicts in Turkana, Samburu, Pokot and Marsabit, the greatest losers are our people. Our children do not go to school. The money that we receive as county resources will not be effectively appropriated. Turkana County received the highest figure of Kshs9 billion in the last disbursement. Pokot County received close to Kshs5 billion. Those funds cannot be used for development because we are busy doing other things. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, it was very shameful for leaders to stand up and tell the Commander-In-Chief of Kenya Defence Forces: “Mr. President, we thought that we were killing the Kenya Police Reservists (KPR).” Shame on them! The persons serving as KPR are Kenyans.
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Out of the 19 police officers who were killed, two were from my constituency. Their wives are widows. There is nobody to attend to the needs of their children. I am sure that there other Members of this House who have lost police officers in similar circumstances. What happened in Baragoi and Kapedo is unacceptable. We have to redeem our country. It is also unacceptable for people, whether they call themselves Mombasa Republican Council (MRC) or whatever, to challenge a military barrack. It is very shameful. They did so just because a certain magician had told them: “If you apply some magic oil on your body, the soldiers will not see you.”
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I want hon. Lomenen and hon. Pkosing to rise to the occasion. I want members of the Pokot, Samburu, Turkana, Somali and all other communities in Kenya to rise to the occasion and choose the path of peace. The path of peace is equivalent to the path of development. The Commander-In-Chief of Kenya Defence Forces went there as the authority of last resort in this country. He went there on a Sunday. The area leadership, comprising of governors and Members of Parliament, were there. For the last 18 months, hon. Grace Kipchoim has been coming to this House, crying because of attacks in her constituency. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, in conclusion, I want to confirm that that operation will ensure that the culprits are brought to book and stolen guns recovered. The military will disarm all the militia in all the communities in every part of our country, including the North Eastern region.
We are giving the President the go ahead. He should know that as leaders, we will stand with him to make sure that Kenya is a secure country and he gets time to develop the nation. On the issue of deployment, I have said very clearly that this House passed a Motion. The Constitution does not stipulate the timeline for a Motion outside that.
Hon. Kajwang’): Hon. Members, on that note, the time being 6.30 p.m., this House stands adjourned until Wednesday, 12th November, 2014, at 9.30 a.m.
The House rose at 6.30 p.m.
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