Can we get the Quorum Bell rung?
Hon. Members, we now have quorum. Let us settle down so that we can start business.
Hon. Members, this is a conveyance of a Petition for enactment of legislation on enforceability of over-the-counter financial derivatives in Kenya by domesticating the Model Netting Bill. Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.225(2)(b), I would like to convey to the House that my office is in receipt of a petition signed by Mr. Mwaura Kelvin Karuga and 22 other persons regarding the enactment of legislation on enforceability of over-the-counter financial derivatives in Kenya by domesticating the Model Netting Bill. The Petitioner avows that in the recent past, the financial derivatives market has experienced exponential growth. However, save for the proposed Capital Markets (Derivatives Markets) Regulations, there is no law regulating the market. Hon. Members, the petitioners are, therefore, praying that the National Assembly, through the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade, initiates the process of enacting legislation on financial derivatives and, particularly, on regulations and enforcement of netting for over-the-counter financial derivatives and financial services industry in the country. Hon. Members, Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.227, the Petition, together with the draft Bill thereto, stand committed to the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade for consideration. In considering the Petition, the Committee is encouraged to engage the petitioners. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
The next Petition is by Hon. James Mathenge Ndiritu. Is Hon. Mathenge in the House?
I, the undersigned, on behalf of residents of Gitare Location, Gilgil Sub- County in Nakuru County, draw the attention of the House to the following:- 1) THAT, in the year 2014, the Government declared vacant the position of chief in Gitare Location; 2) THAT, a number of candidates applied for the position and seven (7) candidates were shortlisted and then interviewed on 26th November, 2014; 3) THAT, though the interviews were concluded in November 2014, the position was not filled for approximately one year, leading to speculations of alleged corruption and malpractices in the recruitment process; 4) THAT, it is alleged that an appointment letter was discretely issued to one Peter Ngigi Wambugu, who is now discharging the duties of the Chief for Gitare Location, oblivious of the Code of Regulations for Public Administration requiring that one may only be appointed chief in location where he or she is a resident; 5) THAT, the appointee, who is expected to be superintending security in the location, is allegedly a suspect under investigation on three different ongoing criminal cases; 6) THAT, this renders the said person unsuitable for appointment to a public office under Chapter Six of the Constitution on Integrity and Leadership; 7) THAT, efforts to petition the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government to nullify the said appointment and conduct the recruitment process afresh in a transparent and accountable manner have not yielded any fruit; and, 8) THAT, the issues in respect of which this Petition is made are not pending before any court of law or any constitutional or legal body. Therefore, your humble petitioners pray that the National Assembly, through the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security:- (i) Causes an audit of the recruitment process for the chief for Gitare Location with a view to identifying the unethical practices that might have delayed the appointment of the chief; (ii) Intervenes to cause the nullification of the appointment of Mr. Peter Ngigi Wambugu as Chief, Gitare Location and recommends forthwith, thorough investigations of the criminal record of the said Chief; and, (iii) Makes any other order or direction that it deems fit in the circumstances of this Petition. And your petitioners will ever pray.
The Petition stands committed to the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security. I do not know whether you need to go into the details of what they will do. Let them carry out their investigations and agree on the way forward and the appropriate action. We have one other Petition by Jude Njomo. He is not in the House. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the House:- The Protocol to Amend the Convention on Offences and certain other acts Committed on Board Aircraft (Montreal Protocol) and the Memorandum thereto. The Reports of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the Constituencies Development Fund in respect of the following constituencies for the year ended 30th June 2015, and the certificates therein:- 1. Rongo Constituency; 2. Ugenya Constituency; 3. Ugunja Constituency; 4. Ndhiwa Constituency; 5. Nyatike Constituency; 6. North Mugirango Constituency; 7. Kuria West Constituency; 8. Nyaribari Masaba Constituency; and, 9. Kwanza Constituency.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 33(1), I would like to request the leave of the House for the purpose of deliberating on the dire hunger situation in the country due to the prolonged drought in many counties in this country. The situation is dire and, therefore, a matter of national importance. I would like to request the leave of the House so that this house is able to discuss the critical situation of shortage of water and food in many parts of this country. I request Hon. Asman Kamama to second this Notice of Motion
Hon. Nooru, we do not need a seconder on this. What we need to know is whether you have the sufficient number of people who want to discuss the national drought.
Clearly, we have more than 20 Members upstanding. Therefore, I direct that we will adjourn the House at 5:30 p.m. for us to discuss this matter of national importance. Next Order.
Hon. Members, it has become our practice to have two Committees present to us the business that is pending before their Committees. We will start with the Departmental Committee on Lands followed by the Departmental Committee on Transport, Public Works and Housing. You have the Floor, Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Lands.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I wish to give a status report on the business that is before my Committee. We have quite a number of businesses, but they are at various stages of completion for tabling in this House. In terms of Bills, we have the Land Value Index (Amendment) Bill, 2016. The Bill was read the First Time on Tuesday 11th October, 2016. On the legislative proposals, the Committee has before it the Institute of Surveyors of Kenya Bill, 2016. The Committee is waiting for comments from the Ministry of Lands, Physical Planning Department, the Attorney-General and the Kenya Law Reform Commission. On petitions, there is a Petition by residents of Pongwe area in Lunga Lunga Constituency on the imminent eviction from LR/ No. 1083 Shimoni, Kwale. The Committee is yet to meet with the directors of Kibigo Land Limited so that they can conclude its report. The reason is that it is indicated that the current owner is Kibigo. We have been trying to look for them, but in vain. I believe soon we are going to get hold of them. There is also a petition by residents of Segera in Laikipia County on the urgent resolution of abuse, torture and land conflict instances in Segera, Laikipa County. The report is scheduled for consideration and adoption by the Committee. That is the stage we are in. We also have a Petition by members of Okoa Jahazi SACCO on alleged grabbing of land and illegal evictions in Isiolo County. The report is scheduled for tabling next week.
There was a Petition that was conveyed by the Speaker of the National Assembly, on behalf of the residents of Yala. The Report is scheduled for consideration and adoption next week.
There is a Petition by Kiboroa Squatters Alliance on alleged eviction from their ancestral land in Trans Nzoia County. The Committee is yet to meet with the Cabinet Secretary for the Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources so that we can conclude writing our report. We need to consult the CS because it seems that the particular parcel of land could be lying on forest land. On the Petition by residents of Mochongoi regarding de-gazettment of Mochongoi Settlement Scheme, the Committee is yet to meet the Cabinet Secretary for Environment and Natural Resources. We were supposed to meet her last week, but she was not available. We expect to meet her next week so that we can conclude writing our report. Regarding the Petition by Hon. Kanini Kega, on behalf of the residents of Kieni Constituency, on Solio Ranch, the Committee is yet to meet the management of Solio Ranch so that we can conclude our report. There seems to be a ploy to frustrate the Committee because whenever we find out who the directors are, they claim that they are not the ones. We are still trying to find the bona fide directors of that ranch so that we can interrogate them. On the Petition by Hon. Charles Muriuki Njagagua, on behalf of residents of Ngiiri Market Squatters in Mbeere North Constituency, we have conducted ground survey on the place, but we are yet to meet the National Land Commission so that we can conclude our report. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Regarding the Petition by Hon. Lati Lelelit, on behalf of the residents of Murramur on the issue of Murramur land, the Committee has scheduled a fact-finding visit to Murramur area of Samburu Central Constituency on the third week of November, 2016, in order to assess the situation on the ground and collect the views of the residents. On the Petition by Hon. Cyprian Kubai Iringo, on behalf of the residents of Igembe Central, regarding parcels of land allocated to the community, the Committee has scheduled to visit the area in Igembe Central Constituency on the first week of November, 2016, in order to assess the situation on the ground and collect the views of the residents. Regarding the Petition by Hon. Aramat Lemanken, on behalf of the original Moi-Ndabi Settlement Scheme allotees, regarding grabbing of land at the Moi-Ndabi Settlement Scheme, we conducted ground survey of the area last weekend. We are scheduled to meet the officials from the Ministry of Lands, Housing and Urban Development and the NLC so that we can conclude our report. On the Petition by Hon. (Dr.) Humphrey Njuguna, on behalf of the shareholders of Twin Hill Ranching Company Limited regarding the dispute on LR. No. 3567, the Committee is scheduled to meet the Petitioner, officials from the Ministry of Lands, Housing and Urban Development, and the NLC. Thereafter, we will conduct a fact-finding mission to conclude our report.
Regarding the Petition by Hon. David Gikaria on the alleged cancellation of title deed for L.R. No. Nakuru Municipality Block 23/108, the Committee made a visit to the ground last week. We are now supposed to meet the officials from the Ministry of Land, Housing and Urban Development, and the NLC to finalise our report. On the Petition by Hon. (Ms.) Sabina Chege, on behalf of the shareholders of Nanga Kihoto (Naivasha) Limited, regarding an attempted irregular transfer of land and fraudulent funds withdrawal from the company’s account, we made a visit to the ground towards the end of last weekend. We got the information on the ground. We are scheduled to interrogate officials from the Ministry of Land, Housing and Urban Development, and the NLC to conclude our report. Regarding the Petition by Hon. George Theuri on behalf of the residents of Mowlem on the irregular allocation of L.R. No. 11379/3, the Committee is supposed to meet the Petitioner so that we can get a glimpse of the matter and, thereafter, meet the officials from the Ministry of Land, Housing and Urban Development and NLC to conclude our report. Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker.
Hon. Members, it is clear that we many petitions regarding land. You know how sensitive land issues are. I would like to ask the Departmental Committee on Lands to expedite the petitions so as to get answers for concerned Kenyans.
I would like to recognise pupils from Eden Annex Preparatory Primary School from Ruaraka Constituency, Nairobi County and Yikisemei Primary School from Kibwezi West Constituency, Makueni County. You are all welcome to observe the proceedings of the National Assembly. Let us now hear Hon. Wangwe.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. On behalf of the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Transport, Public Works and Housing, and pursuant to the Speaker’s Communication on 14th October 2015 on the business pending before the Committee, I wish to apprise the House on the business pending before the Committee as at 19th October 2016. I beg to report progress on petitions pending before the Committee as follows:- The Member for Shinyalu Constituency, Hon. Anami, presented a Petition on behalf of the residents of Shinyalu Constituency regarding the dilapidated state of the Kakamega-Webuye Road. The Committee considered the Petition and finalised the Report, which is ready for tabling.
Regarding the Petition by Mr. Blamuel Njururi, seeking to amend the National Transport and Safety Authority (NTSA) Act of 2012, the Committee met the Petitioner and officials from NTSA. Our Report on the matter is awaiting consideration and adoption by the Committee before it is tabled in the House next week.
The Member for Matayos, Hon. Geoffrey Odanga, presented a Petition regarding the de- congestion of Busia and Malaba towns. The Committee has since met the Petitioner and undertook a field visit to Busia and Malaba towns. The Committee is yet to meet the CS concerned before finalising the report on the matter. The Member for Ikolomani, Hon. Benard Shinali, presented a Petition regarding the delayed rehabilitation of Kakamega Airstrip. The Committee met the Petitioner and undertook a field visit to Kakamega Airstrip on 17th September 2016. We are yet to meet the CS for Transport, Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development before finalising our report. Hon. Roba Duba presented a Petition regarding the construction of the Turbi-Sololo- Moyale Road. On 17th September 2016, the Committee undertook a field visit, but we are yet to meet the CS for Transport, Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development before finalising our report on the matter. Hon. (Ms.) Esther Murugi presented a Petition on behalf of the residents of Nyeri Town on the removal of asbestos roofing. The Committee is considering that Petition. We are yet to finalise our report. Hon. Kathuri Murungi presented a Petition regarding the status of the Nkubu-Mikumbune Road. The Committee is considering the Petition. We will be finalising our report shortly, which we will proceed to table in the House.
Petition number 8, which is the last one, is by Hon. Robert Mbui, MP, regarding the non- completion of the Mumbuni-Kathiani Road. The Committee is still considering the said Petition and shall report back to the House.
There are two legislations which are before the Committee. The first one is the Public Regulation Bill, 2015, and the second one is the Maritime Zones Bill, 2016. The Committee has commenced inquiry into the alleged financial mismanagement at Kenya Airways. Those are the remarks we have for now.
Thank you. That is a very sensitive area. We do not want to just hear. You will get back to us and give us some timelines so that Members can know when to expect a response from you. That brings us to the end of that Order. Next Order
This is being presented by the Vice-Chair of the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade, Hon. Gaichuhie.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, pursuant to the provisions of Section 11 (2) of the Central Bank of Kenya Act, and Section 8(1) of the Public Appointments (Parliamentary Approval) Act, 2011, this House adopts the Report of the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade on the Vetting of Nominees for Appointment to the Central Bank of Kenya Board of Directors, laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, October 18, 2016, and approves the appointment of the following persons as Members to the Central Bank of Kenya Board of Directors:- 1) Mr. Ravi J. Ruparel; 2) Mrs. Nelius W. Kariuki; 3) Mr. Samson K. Cherutich; 4) Ms. Charity Seleina Kisotu; and, 5) Mrs. Rachel Bessie Dzombo. Hon. Deputy Speaker, the nominees appeared before our Committee and we vetted them. This was after the names were brought to us after the Speaker of the National Assembly read a Communication from His Excellency the President of the Republic of Kenya on 4th October 2016. We went ahead to approve them. The nominees appeared before the Committee on Friday, 14th October, 2016. The Committee vetted them based on the criterion that is set out in Section 11 of the Central Bank Act of Kenya and the Public Appointments (Parliamentary Approval) Act 2011. The nominees were interviewed on their educational background, relevant experience, recruitment process and leadership and integrity. The Committee further requested the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA), the Higher Education Loans Board (HELB), the Directorate of Criminal Investigation (DCI) and the Credit Reference Bureau for clearances. None of the clearing institutions raised any objections for the appointment of the nominees on the basis of non-compliance.
We asked for memoranda from the public. One of the public members, Vitalis Omondi Oduor, opposed the appointment of Ms. Charity Selina Kisotu on the basis of integrity. On scrutinising the Memorandum, the Committee dismissed it since it did not meet the admissibility threshold provided for under Section 6 (9) of the Public Appointments (Parliamentary Approval) Act.
On the nomination process, it was noted that due process was followed as provided for in Section 11(2) of the Central Bank Act of Kenya. The law obligates the appointing authority to nominate persons for vetting by Parliament and eventual appointment. The nominees should be persons knowledgeable or experienced in monetary, financial, banking and economic matters or other disciplines relevant to the functions of the Central Bank.
On the suitability of the nominees for appointment, the Committee found all the nominees suitable and qualified to serve as members of the Board of Directors of CBK. The observations of the Committee were as follows:-
We looked at the Curriculum Vitae (CV) of Mr. Ravi Ruparel, and the Committee, having considered his CV and heard his oral submissions during the vetting/interview, made the following observations:- He is a Kenyan who was born in Nairobi in 1964. He went to City Primary School and later joined Jamuhuri High School. He went to the University of Nairobi (UoN) where he did his Bachelors of Arts and later went to the University of California to do his Masters in Business The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Administration. He has a wealth of experience in the financial sector having worked in various institutions. He is currently the Senior Advisor to the Financial Sector World Bank and the Department for International Development (DfID) from 2011 to the present time. Mr. Ruparel also does some pro bono work. His family has a foundation that sponsors over 200 pupils and students in bursaries across the country. So, we found him suitable based on his experience, having spent all his time in Kenya, and also for the fact that he is doing a lot of social responsibility work in the country. On this nominee, the Committee noted that he exhibited impressive knowledge on the topical issues touching on the banking regulations and the economy. Having consulted for World Bank, his experience and knowledge would have come in handy in guiding CBK at the point in time when there is a lot of challenges within the banking sector. Our second nominee was Ms. Kariuki. She is Kenyan who holds a Masters degree in Economics from UoN. She has a wealth of experience in the public sector, having served in a number of boards here in Kenya. She was awarded an outstanding woman leader in the Women Leadership Congress held in Mumbai, India, in 2013. The Committee noted that the nominee also exhibited a lot of knowledge in topical issues and was going to be of good service to CBK.
Our third nominee was Mr. Samson Cherutich, who is also a holder of Bachelors of Commerce degree from UoN. He was born in Elgeyo Marakwet County. He is an associate chartered accountant. He has worked in various companies in Kenya. He has worked for Magadi Soda and Nairobi Hospital as the financial director, the Nairobi Women Hospital, Ernst and Young and Kenya Television Network (KTN). We also noted that he has been in the financial sector and has a lot of experience in the financial sector. Therefore, the Committee noted that he will also be of great help to CBK. The Committee recommended his appointment. The fourth nominee is Ms. Charity Kisotu. She is also a holder of a Masters degree from the University of Eastern Africa. She also has a wealth of experience. She has been nominated as a board member and even a chair of various boards in this Republic. She also has a wealth of experience in the field of finance. We deemed her fit, but there was a person by the name of Vitalis who submitted a memorandum doubting her integrity. He noted that when she was a board member in the National Water Conservation and Pipeline Corporation, there was a multi- million shilling scandal at the time Hon. Charity Ngilu was the Minister. However, when we looked at the memorandum, we realized that the person who presented it refused to sign it. That means that it did not meet the threshold that is required for a memorandum to be admitted. The rule of natural justice requires that one should substantiate any allegations that one has made against a candidate. So, the Committee did not take the memorandum into consideration since it did not meet the relevant sections of the law that the candidate had flouted. The Committee also noted that given her experience, she would be of help to the Board. Our last nominee was Ms. Dzombo. She is a Kenyan from Kilifi and has a Bachelors degree from the University of Nairobi. She has been a career civil servant. She has served for so many years in Public Service, rising to the rank of Permanent Secretary (PS) in the Ministry of Gender, Sports, Culture and Social Services. She has a lot of experience in the public service, having served as a PS, Under-Secretary and Budget Officer in the Ministry which made her interact a lot with the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK). She is, therefore, well versed with CBK. Pursuant to Article 118 of the Constitution, the Central Bank of Kenya Act, Public Appointments (Parliamentary Approval) Act, Standing Orders and all relevant statutes, the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Committee recommends that the National Assembly approves the following nominees for appointment by his Excellency the President as Board Members and Directors of CBK:- (i) Mr. Ravi Raparel. (ii) Mrs. Nelius W. Kariuki. (iii) Mr. Samson Kimelly Cherutich. (iv) Ms. Charity Kisotu. (v) Mrs. Rachel Dzombo. Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I beg to move and ask Hon. Iringo to second.
Let us have Hon. Iringo.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I lost my tongue when I realized that my Vice-Chairman has forgotten my name and yet, I am ever with him in the Committee meetings. I second this Motion on the appointment of those Kenyans to the Board of Directors of CBK. At the outset, let me say that those five Kenyans are qualified. Each of them meets the needed qualifications. When they presented themselves to the Committee, they exhibited the leadership which is needed of them. We found that they are equal to the task. All the five nominees have got wealth of experience, especially in the banking and financial sector and in areas which are relevant to the expectations which they are going to meet at CBK. Also, the nominees meet the gender requirement in that, we have got three ladies and two gentlemen. The nominating panel took into account that one and it was easy for us not to grapple with the issues of gender. The nominees are persons of integrity. This can be attested to by the reports from the Directorate of Criminal Investigation (DCI). They have no debts even with the Higher Education Loans Board (HELB). The few objections we got did not meet the threshold. Having looked at the qualifications and the reasons why we should accept the five nominees, I also believe that they are able to handle the challenges that are already bedeviling the CBK and the financial sector in this country. The CBK has been accused of laxity and poor monitoring and control of the commercial banks. We remember that a number of banks have collapsed recently. We have had several meetings with the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of CBK and, all the time, he has been telling us that he is trying to clean his house. He promised to clear the rot and mess in CBK. It is my belief that when those five Kenyans join this Board, they will come with a wealth of experience and integrity and that they will use that to clean the mess I have talked about. They should start proper monitoring of commercial banks. In the last two years, three banks have gone under thus putting many Kenyans in limbo, without knowing the fate of their savings. I thank the CEO of the Central Bank of Kenya, Mr. Njoroge, because he has tried his best and one of the banks is back on its feet. It is feared that part of our National Government Constituencies Development Fund (NG-CDF) Board money is saved in one of the collapsed banks, and it is suspected that the money that is held there is in the process of getting lost. Those nominees are the kind of people we want in that institution, so that we do not experience failure in future. This House has gone out of its way to start the process. We have succeeded in capping the interest rates that are charged by banks. Banks were resisting that, but my Committee and Members of this House fought hard and we managed to get the same. Therefore, it is up to CBK, with the support of the Board, to see to it that decisions, especially the one on interest rates, are implemented to the letter and without much delay. Some of the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
banks have been trying to dilly-dally on the issue of interest rates. However, the CBK should put its feet down so that, at the end of the day, the process of capping interest rates is undertaken. Finally, I would like to talk about liquidity ratios. The CBK should periodically assess all the banks. That is so that if there is any bank that experiences financial problems, it is then detected early enough. That way, it will be easy to bail out that bank and save it. That is because once a bank collapses, it collapses with all its members and customers. Many families and businesses suffer in the process of trying to revive the bank. I, therefore, second the Motion and confirm that the five Kenyans named in this Report merit to be appointed as Directors of the Central Bank of Kenya.
Can the people at the door come in or exit, so that I can propose the Question.
I can see Hon. Makali Mulu but before him, I can see Hon. Gideon Irea. Can we hear the Member for Central Imenti who seems to be having a burning issue?
On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker. This Parliament is a House of integrity and it represents all Kenyans in this country. I am suggesting that when discussing appointees, the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC) should go a step further and televise their faces on the screens so that we can know them. It is small digital work to have them appear on the screens. When we are talking about appointees, they should appear on the screen so that we can know them. When we meet them out there, we are able to recognize them as the people who we approved.
I support the appointments to the Board. It should not be in vain. It should be a Board which will assist the able Governor to run the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) so that, Kenyans who are putting their money in various banks in this country are not worried. That is because in the last three years or so, more than three banks have gone under. What I am seeing here is that with the able Governor and this team, these people---
Hon. Irea, remember yours was a point of order. I think you have prosecuted it. I had already given the Floor to somebody else. It was not you. You have finished your part.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I support the appointment of the Board.
I had given the Floor to Hon. Makali Mulu.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I also rise to support this recommendation by the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade, although I will be making some observations. I think we really need to appreciate the presentation of this list to this House. That is because the CBK has stayed for some time without having directors and, to me, that has been a serious omission. I must thank the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade for bringing this list to this House for approval. I have looked through the list of appointees and what they are expected to do as Directors of CBK. For some of us who have a background in economics, we know what a Central Bank in a country is supposed to do. It is a very important institution in any country in terms of The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
management of its economic issues. It does what we call economic trade analysis, controls the monetary policy and is supposed to give advice on debt management. We know that the Central Bank is the bank of last resort that those other banks are expected to borrow from. This means that even as we appoint directors, it is important that we match the qualifications and experience with the responsibility or key functions of Central Bank. When you look through this list, you realize that most of these appointees have the necessary academic qualifications. Also, most of them have what I would call the relevant experience. We must also look at where we are coming from. In the last one year or so, this country has gone through a serious banking crisis where three important banks have collapsed and, as a result of that, CBK had to intervene and save them. With the CBK playing the supervisory role, it is expected to have directors who will be up to speed in terms of ensuring that this does not happen again. We have said many times that when banks collapse in any country, wrong signals are sent to the financial market. What happens is that investors and depositors panic and that can cause a serious financial crisis which can make an economy collapse. We need to guard against that as a country. That is why I am saying we must look at the immediate history of Kenya based on where we have come from; where three banks have been declared bankrupt or have collapsed. Issues have also been raised. I remember the last time when we were discussing the banking crisis, one of the issues which came up was conspiracy between the employees and directors of the banks, thus causing them to collapse. That means that we need directors who can effectively supervise the employees of the bank. At the end of the day, the directors are the ones who provide what I would call strategic direction of the bank. They should be able to screen the kind of employees that are working under them. This is so that they have employees who can provide the best services to Kenyans, and who cannot be compromised by being told to “close one eye” when they see things are not working. Another thing which came out clearly was the issue of poor supervision by CBK. We realized that even though CBK was supervising banks regularly, their supervision was not effective enough to some extent. It had some gaps which needed to be improved. When I look at this list, most of these people meet the qualifications. But my attention has been drawn to one particular appointee by the name Ms. Nelius Wanjiru Kariuki. When you look at her date of birth, she was born in 1950 and retired in 1990 from the Civil Service. I get worried because, as Kenyans, we have such a young population which is very well educated. Yet, the Chair and his team still want to give jobs to people who have retired. We have young people who are out there with PhDs, Masters and all the relevant experience and they are not being given jobs. We are being unfair to our young people. When you look at this list, the youngest person was born in 1976 and has already achieved at the age of 40 years. By our Constitution, these appointments have no representation of the youth who are between the ages of 18 – 35 years and form about 70 per cent of the Kenyan population. As a House, we will not be doing justice to Kenyans if we continue leaving out that huge population of our country and yet, we are saying we want to mainstream the youth in our activities. While I have no other issues with the rest of the appointees, I think the Committee would have helped us. I do not know the nominee personally and I have no personal issues with her but, I am just looking at her Curriculum Vitae (CV), experience and what she has done. I think that person has worked for this country and if there is anything she wanted to do in terms of value addition, she has already done it. This is a person I will oppose, not on the basis of experience, but that she has retired. I think we can give this position to the youth of this country, either male The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
or female. We need to allocate this position to the youth. The only unfortunate thing is whether we are able, as a House, to approve four and reject one. If it is allowable, I support the approval of four. This position should be given to the youth of this country.
With those remarks, Hon. Deputy Speaker, I support.
Hon. Korei ole Lemein.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this Motion. Let me start by thanking the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade, which is chaired by my good friend, Hon. Benjamin Langat. Having gone through the Report of the Committee, I realised that, indeed, the Committee has done a good job. All the nominees have a wealth of experience and are well trained. As the Committee has indicated, they are suitable for that job. The Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) needs qualified, experienced and well trained individuals. In that sense, it is my view that the Committee has done a good job in ensuring that these nominees are brought to this House. In my view, they have the necessary experience. When you look at the nominees, a number of them have banking experience, having worked with the best reputable banking institutions in the world. Others have accounting experience. I believe the CBK has got the best team to work with the Governor and the rest of the management to assist this country move forward in improving our economy. I believe this team will work for the best of this nation. I support.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. Outrightly, I am opposing the approval of these nominees. We passed a very beautiful Constitution in 2010. I am saying “a very beautiful Constitution” because it has been said to be one of the best in the world. Article 10 of the Constitution deals with our national values and principles of governance--- Permit me to read:- “10.(1) The national values and principles of governance in this Article bind all State organs, State officers, public officers and all persons whenever any of them— (a) applies or interprets this Constitution; (b) enacts, applies or interprets any law; or, (c) makes or implements public policy decisions.”
I am emphasising “state officer” and I am including the President of the country as a State officer under Article 260. I am also emphasising Article 10(1)(c) on this obligation binding on anybody who makes or implements public policy decisions.
At Article 10(2), among those values are patriotism, national unity, democracy and participation of the people and most importantly at 10(b), human dignity, equity, social justice, inclusiveness--- You can begin to note where I am going. Let me also refer the House to Article 232. It deals with the matter of values and principles of public service. At Article 232(1)(h), among those values are that they shall include representation of Kenya’s diverse communities. At (i) affording adequate and equal opportunities for appointment, training and advancement at all levels of the public service; of men and women. But I am emphasising the members of all ethnic groups and persons with disabilities. I know Hon. Bishop Mutua may talk as nominated Member representing persons with disabilities. I will not dwell on that. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
We cannot, as an institution and organ of Government, be sitting through these approval processes as if these values and principles of governance were just put in the Constitution to decorate the document. They have real meaning. As a State organ, we must ensure that whatever we are doing and whenever we are doing it, we are alive to that fact. Looking at all appointments before I speak about this one - and which this House has been approving since we started sitting - I do not know whether we are aware we are a State organ and, therefore, obligated to uphold the values in Article 10 or we believe ours is just to do the work of a conveyer belt. Consistently, persons with disability are ordinarily entitled up to 5 per cent of positions of service in the Public Service, progressively. They are getting nothing and we do not question why. Particular institutions of Government have become a preserve of particular communities. This is more so under the Jubilee Government. My hope is that the President of the country, being the youngest we have had, will be taking his time thinking of creating a nation for over 50 years to come; a nation for the future, not a nation in which when you get the instruments of power, you think of who are from your village to protect you in that power. That is the reason we have these provisions. If you look at these appointments, we already know the Governor of the Central Bank of Kenya is from Central Kenya. Why would you have the Governor from Central Kenya in a list where you will be having a total of only six people and then you have another Nelius W. Kariuki there? There is nobody from Ukambani. It is an ethnic issue. There is nobody from Nyanza - actually the entire Nyanza. It is an issue. There is nobody from the entire Western Kenya. Are those communities being left out of important Public Service positions because they are associated with the Coalition for Reforms and Democracy (CORD) or what is the reason? Do you cease to belong to a Government and, therefore, have your opportunities to fill these places simply because you belong to another party which did not form the Government? We have gladly said that we all belong to this Government but, there is a scheme in which you see, gradually, the exclusion of particular communities from important public sectors. It is at the risk of even having quacks filling up those positions.
On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker.
Hon. Benjamin Langat, he is on a point of order.
Is it in order for my good friend to mislead the House that the list of directors in CBK does not include anybody from Western Kenya and Nyanza? As we speak, the Chairperson of the Central Bank of Kenya Board of Directors comes from Nyanza. The Chairperson comes from Nyanza. So, it is wrong to mislead the country that the directorship is not a good representation of Kenya. I think the Member owes us an apology for misleading us.
I know what my brother is talking about. It does not help him much. He is talking of my senior, Mohammed Nyaoga. He is a Kisii. Kisii is in Nyanza. What I am questioning is why you are thinning out Luos, Kambas and Luhyas. That is what you should be dealing with. Are they paying taxes in the country or not? Hon. Deputy Speaker, let me go to the most important point. If you want people who are most qualified on matters finance, can you do a board for the Central Bank of Kenya without mentioning the name of a Luo, a Luhya or a person from Lower Eastern? It is a bad joke. Let me put this thing into context. Look at the academic qualifications of the people we are proposing to take to the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK). In this day and age, we are taking people whose experience is being in Muthaiga Golf Club to CBK. This is a person who retires with a mere Bachelor’s degree in something so irrelevant to banking that you cannot associate with the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
functions of CBK, since she comes from a particular tribe. Look at the Curriculum Vitae (CV) of Nelius W. Kariuki. Other than the fact that she is Kariuki, why should she be on this list? This is a country where you have people like Martin Oduor Otieno and Dalmas Otieno Anyango. If you lack people, you can poach some of us. This is a country where you have people like Makali Mulu. You bring people from golf clubs---
On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker.
Hon. Benjamin, I think you have made your point. Can you just proceed? Your point has been made, Hon. Kaluma.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I should not be disrupted. I am very passionate about this issue.
Be as passionate as you may.
Order, Hon. Benjamin!
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I am at page 23 of the Report of the Committee. Look at the CV of Samson Kimelly Cherutich on pages 23 and 24. Are these the people you are appointing to CBK? If not that he is Cherutich, what is in this guy? He has worked in private companies such as Kikuchi Limited and FEP Holdings. He has been an accountant in small bodies and an accountant trainee at Ernst & Young. An accountant trainee! Let us be fair. I want to challenge the President to realise that Kenya belongs to all of us. If these things are going to continue, some of us will make a decision on whether we should be paying taxes or not. We do not want this nonsense in the country. My time is up.
Hon. Njogu Barua.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity to support the list of nominees.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, protect me from the Chair of the Committee and Hon. Waweru. As I stand to debate this Motion, I would like to make reference to the comments from the two previous speakers. One of them is Hon. Makali Mulu, a person I respect so much in terms of academics and legislation. I do not see what is so unique about this nominee, Nelius Kariuki. When I look at the Report of the Committee, which I am using to make my contributions, I have noticed that she is very clear on what she wants and what she will do as a Board member. One of the things that impress me about Madam Kariuki is that she is concerned about customer deposits. This is coming out clearly in the Report. We need a Director of Central Bank who is going to ensure that the deposits of Kenyans and non-Kenyans are safe. We cannot keep on condemning people because they come from a certain part of the country and giving a blind bypass to others. If you look at the Report, Madam Nelius Kariuki is very clear about the role of the Board of Directors. She is quoted as having said that: “The Board of Directors which she is going to serve is supposed to give policy direction, guidelines to the organisation and not to interfere with the day-to-day running of the organisation. Those are the type of board members who are required. They are Board members who know their role. On the issue that my friend Hon. Kaluma has raised, the grandson of Akuku Danger, he has put it clearly. He is proud of that and I am as well. He asked whether we can appoint members who have worked in small organisations. Time has come for Kenyans to respect people working in small organisations. We also have to respect people who have never had an The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
opportunity and who have not been lucky like we are, to work in big organisations. I am sure if those people who work in Muthaiga Golf Club were given an opportunity to work with any other big organisation like Safaricom, they would have done so. Hon. Kaluma was misleading Kenyans when he said that working for Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs) does not qualify one to work for Kenyans. I do not know what his motive was. This is the kind of thinking that Kenya does not require. As I support this Report, the only thing I would like to agree with Hon. Kaluma is this: In future, we need to look into the representation of people with disabilities and the youth. We need to ensure that there are youths in board memberships which should be 30 per cent and also people with disabilities. We should not allow a situation where those two groups are left behind. When we talk of the face of Kenya, I support that we should respect the face of Kenya. I have a different opinion on the face of Kenya. The face of Kenya is being confused by some of us to refer to tribes. We are in a devolved system. This devolved system recognises counties. The face of Kenya, in my opinion, should be based on counties. That is why I am saying, if somebody comes from Kisumu, the next nominee should come from Nyamira. Small counties like Kirinyaga should not remain marginalised as being part of the greater whole. That is the kind of thinking I would like to front. When we look at the qualifications of these nominees, they have the relevant experience. I have read the Report since I have a lot of interest in the operations of CBK. If you look at Ravi, he has serious experience in finance. Ms. Nelius Kariuki has experience in economics. Cherutich has experience in business administration and commerce. Charity has experience in business studies and Dzombo has worked as a Permanent Secretary (PS) in this Government. She has an experience in social sciences. In terms of qualifications, I feel that they are fully qualified. The other important thing is experience in working in similar organisations. This is demonstrated by some of the nominees who have worked in the World Bank. They have very good experience in world class institutions. That is why I am proposing that this House should not take debate on this Board lightly. They have the relevant experience. The other thing which I know has appeared in the Report - and I am happy with the team that has been proposed - is that they have agreed and recognised that the 20 per cent interest rate that was being charged on loans in the country was one of the highest in the world. Now that we have been able to cap the interest rates, my prayer is that when the Board is put in place, it should be competent enough to protect
from further exploitation. Although the interest rates have been capped at 14 per cent, I hope, they are going to be on the lookout so that rogue banking institutions do not introduce other fees that will make us move to 20 per cent interest rate again, hence suffocating wananchi who will not be able to service loans again. Hon. Deputy Speaker, with those few remarks, I would like to support this Report and support all the five nominees to the Board of Directors of CBK. I thank you.
I want to give the chance to the Chair of the Committee, Hon. Benjamin Langat, to tell us whether these were the best five Kenyans that they found in the list of applicants and whether they took care of the face of Kenya in their decisions. Give us an insight even though I know you have already moved. But you were the people who were there. There was an idea that was given that in future, we want the faces of those Kenyans displayed on our screens while we are debating so that we can have some sense of knowing them. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I want to support the idea which has been advanced by the Hon. Member for Imenti Central that, in future, we need to have the nominees displayed so that Members can see them. I support that idea.
I want to say a few things about the nominees. I support all the five nominees for the position of Board members of CBK. I have listened to some Members contribute. CBK has remained without a board for quite some time now. We approved the appointment of the chairperson about a year ago. The chair cannot exist independent of the Board members. I am very happy that we are about to finish the process so that they can work as CBK Board of Directors.
Recently, this House rose to the occasion and made a historic decision to legislate on the upper limits of the interest rates and the lower limits of the interest rates - Risk Discount Rate (RDR). On that note, I want to start by congratulating the House for rising to the occasion and making the historic decision. I also want to thank His Excellency the President, for rising to the occasion and signing the Bill. Today, in the history of Kenya, Kenyans are now enjoying the lowest interest rates since Independence. I want to encourage Kenyans to seek loans because they can now repay them. I also want to encourage banks to take the Central Bank (Amendment) law seriously and positively, so that borrowers are not frustrated. I expect that the new Board which I hope the House will approve today, will assist the Governor in the management of that process.
I do not intend to talk much because my Vice-Chair had moved the debate and mentioned quite a number of issues. But having said that, I would like to request the House, especially Members in the Opposition side who want to oppose the Motion that, there is a Kiswahili saying that: Mgala muue na haki yake umpe. It is wrong to oppose for the sake of opposing. It is good to oppose, but with the right reasons. Hon. Deputy Speaker, let us not play to the gallery. Let us say the real issues. When you look at the Curriculum Vitae (CV) of these Kenyans who have been appointed, they are the best. When you question, for example, Ms. Nelius Wanjiru Kariuki, is it a crime to be from Central Kenya, Nyanza or the Rift Valley? I want to encourage Hon. Kaluma not to read a section of her CV. For those of us who are Christians, if you read a section of the Bible and leave the rest, you will get a wrong conclusion. He says that the only thing this lady knows is Muthaiga Golf Club. This is only saying where she is a member just the way most of us here are members of different clubs. This lady has been a director of Zep-Re, PTA Reinsurance Company, a big multinational company. She has been the chairperson of the Board of Directors of Kenya Re-Insurance Corporation for eight years and Chairperson of the Kenya Re-Insurance Corporation Staff Pension Fund from 2003 to 2010. Those are seven years. She has been the Director of the Kenya Re-Insurance Corporation from 2003 to 2006. She has been an economist for the Kenyan Government from 1974 to 990, and then you read a section of her CV just because you want to tarnish the name of somebody who is not a Member of this House! It is good to be fair. Even if you want to play politics, play the correct politics. It is very unfortunate to have a lawyer at the level of Hon. Kaluma insinuating in this House that holders of first degrees are not qualified to hold positions. We have set a law here that determines the qualifications of being a member of the Board of Directors of the Central Bank (CBK). The minimum qualification is a first degree. We are also following the law. When we are vetting, we are also following the law. There is law called Public Appointments (Parliamentary Approval) Act, 2012 which gives a criterion to follow. Do they qualify academically? If it is yes, The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
do they have any criminal record? If it is no, we proceed. We have followed the law unless you want to change the law in this House.
On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker.
Hon. Mukali Mulu is interfering with my contribution.
On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I also wanted to respond to what he said earlier on because I know he is also playing politics.
Let him because we have allowed you to have your say.
On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity. We need to be fair to Kenyans by providing them the right information. I did not pick the issues I picked because of the tribe of this particular individual. From what the Chair has said, he is confirming what I said. This lady has been what she can be in this country all the way to the top. So, she is now on her way down. Do you want to engage people who are on their way down? She has been a board member since 2003 and we are in 2016. She has been in all the boards the Chair has mentioned. We are saying the CBK is an important institution and it requires fresh brains and people who are energetic. I do not think she has the energy to serve at the CBK. My point of order is that the Chair should not mislead the House.
I think your point has been made and I do not see the point of order about it.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I was yet to come to the point of the youths. Again, at best, my good friend, Hon. Makali, is doing politics on the Floor of the House. All the employees of the CBK numbering 2,000 are aged between 20 and 60 years. So, youths are already working in the Government. The number is 2000 plus. There are youths working for the CBK. This is board membership and it requires experience. The Member should tell us whether old people have no rights in this country. If we have one person aged 60 years as a member of the board and the others are young, it is okay. The same also goes for this nominee called Mr. Samson Kimeli Cherutich. Hon. Kaluma could only read two companies where he has worked. He was implying that Mr. Cherutich has worked in Magadi Soda Company Limited. Hon. Kaluma refused to see the fact that Mr. Cherutich has worked at the Nairobi Hospital as a Financial Controller. He also refused to see the fact that the fellow is now a lecturer at the Management University of Africa. I wanted to set the record straight, so that Kenyans outside there are fed with the truth and not half-truths. I am very happy that all of them are very qualified. On the question of tribal and regional balance, we have a body called the NCIC headed by the former Speaker of this House. That is the relevant body that should bring us a report on that. You cannot sit in this House and start questioning one person from one region out of four. When you look at the gender question, I want to congratulate the President because 60 per cent of the nominees are women. I am happy the Deputy Leader of the Majority Party is here. It is a fact that 60 per cent of the nominees are women and that is a big plus on these nominees. With those few remarks, I want to urge the Members to support these nominees, who are very qualified Kenyans. The CBK is waiting for the board, so that they can assist the Governor in running the country. Thank you very much and God bless this House. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Thank you. That was important information for the Members. Let us give a chance to Hon. Dalmas Otieno on the other side, who has a vast experience in the Civil Service.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. Of course, we support these names. All these persons have the basic qualifications according to the law. However, we are talking about the CBK. This is the CBK! After striking it well and getting a person of integrity and the highest level of intellectual capacity to be Governor, how do you after waiting for a whole year, give him “C” grade board of directors? It is the CBK. We are talking of our “A” and “B” plus grades for these kinds of positions. It is not only in terms of academic performance, but also in terms of work experience. In this Report, we talk of wealth of experience. You do not see the wealth in the CV. The wealth is not here. The wealth is relevant in the monetary policy areas. We need to see wealth in financial policy areas in terms of directorships relevant in handling the entire economy and in terms of having published in monetary and financial journals. This is so that one can prove to us that one has the knowledge of the Kenyan economy at their fingertips. When a crisis arises, one should know what issues to isolate and bring forward. It is not that we are opposing. We are accepting, but we wish you were able to do a better job. You are capable of doing a better job after waiting for a whole year. We thought you were hunting well the way you hunted for the Governor. However, you have now proposed average Kenyans to handle the most critical institution. I am getting afraid everyday as we look at appointments. Very soon, we may not find capable Kenyans accessing these important positions because decisions are made on the basis of what the person being taken there is going to do for individuals. It is not what he is going to do for Kenya. Kenya is in competition with the rest of the world. The rest of the world takes their best to the Central Bank organ. Have we taken our best? Not that they do not qualify, they are qualified according to our law, but they are not our best. If you want to say these are your best, then your best is too average. This is Kenya. Kenyans have been educated. Kenyans know these policy areas. There are Kenyans who have published globally on monetary and financial policy issues. Why do we derogate our CBK to mediocrity and propose to appoint “C” grade personnel? It is not that any of them is not qualified. They are qualified and they can perform. Maybe they can perform better in terms of what they will do for Benjamin Langat. I wish we were able to do better because we can do better. We should insist that we always do better particularly for certain organs of governance that will affect our political economy. I support with great disappointment.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to support this Report on the nominees of the CBK Board. I take this opportunity, first of all, to thank the President for nominating women. Out of five nominees, three are women. This is the way forward for this country. If you look at the CVs of the women, you will realise that we have very qualified economists like Nelius Kariuki. We have Charity Kisotu, who is from a marginalised community and very qualified. We have Rachel Dzombo, who rose to the level of Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Gender, Children and Social Development. If we recall, when Rachel Bessie Dzombo was the Accounting Officer for the Ministry of Gender, Children and Social Development, she did so well that the Ministry took position one in performance contracting. Earlier on, she had worked in different ministries. She had done very well and she had risen to a level of Chief Accountant prior to her appointment as Permanent Secretary. This board is so important because the CBK is undergoing some internal reforms to The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
make sure that there is restructuring. The board will assist the Governor to carry out his duties. This is a well-thought out list of nominees. It is high time we, Parliamentarians, stopped thinking in terms of tribalism. That it is only when I have a Mtaveta in the list, that I would get excited. It is important for us to be Kenyans. Since we are in the 11th Parliament, coming in elected after the new Constitution, we should embrace all Kenyans. At the devolved units, we have places where people can conduct meetings at the executive level in their mother tongue, which is against the Constitution. At the national level, we are seeing regional balance. We can also see consideration of people from minority groups like Mr. Ravi Ruparel, who has been nominated as a member of the board. All these people are well-qualified. Apart from the qualification, there is gender and regional balance, which is very important according to the constitutional requirement. With those few remarks, I beg to support.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I would like to join my colleagues in supporting the Report. Although some sentiments have been expressed, we should be fair to all Kenyans. It is not right to shame them on national television because they did not appoint themselves. Whereas this might not be the real face of Kenya, at least, this time, they have tried to spread the opportunities. However, we should be given an audit of appointments, so that we do not have names of people from one or two communities appearing in each and every list that is brought here. That is what is causing a lot of despair and despondency in terms of political support. Looking at the CVs of these nominees, I am satisfied that they are qualified for the job. I am happy we have somebody from Narok County, Ms. Seleina Kisotu, who is one of the most learned ladies in our area. She is an accountant by profession and a former chairperson of the Kenya Wine Agencies Limited (KWAL) and the National Social Security Fund (NSSF). These are people who can do a good job. Some of the nominees have even been consultants for the World Bank. Those are the kind of people we require. When we look at gender parity, we have three ladies and two gentlemen. This is useful for our country especially when we are experiencing gender imbalance. We should support our qualified candidates. Let us not be tribal, but we must distribute opportunities to all communities. I do not want to belabor the point. These nominees deserve the positions. I would like to request my colleagues to approve them, but in future, we must audit the people who are nominated to positions, so that all Kenyans are represented.
Hon. Timothy Wanyonyi.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I would like to support this Motion, but with a heavy heart because people living with disabilities have been excluded from appointments in the Government yet we form 10 per cent of the total population. There are people living with disabilities who qualify to be appointed to these positions. As earlier speakers said, these appointees are qualified, but do we meet the threshold of the Constitution? The Constitution provides that gender, people with disabilities and the youth must be represented. We cannot fit in one appointment, but when a section of a population is left out during appointments, then, something is wrong. This is a signal to the Government to ensure that they give voice to people living with disabilities and the youth. We have a list of people living with disabilities who are qualified. They have PhDs, some are lecturers, lawyers and engineers. I have read through the qualifications of these appointees and I do not hold brief for any one of them. I will not oppose the list for the sake of it, but I just want to raise a pertinent point that we must comprehensively look at appointments of people to public positions in future. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
We must give hope to the marginalised groups who have been relegated to second-hand citizens of this nation. My voice is that of the people with disability because it traverses across the country. People living with disabilities look up to us to represent their interests. Those who advise the President on public appointments must properly guide him. People living with disabilities are just looking for 5 per cent of the jobs in the Government. By considering all groups, we will give hope to all the sections of the population. The CBK has been without a board for a whole year. It is time to approve these directors. Let us not just be a rubberstamp House, but we must approve appointments that meet the threshold of the Constitution. The Governor of the CBK is doing a good job. He has reined in rogue banks. We now have proper regulations from the CBK. By giving him an effective and efficient board, he will have teeth to bite, so that he can regulate a very important sector of our economy. I support, but we must not leave out a section of our population in public appointments.
Hon. (Ms.) Annah Nyokabi.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to support the appointment of these nominees to the Board of Directors of the CBK. I want to express my great disappointment at Members of this House, especially men, for ganging up against women who have been nominated. That clearly shows that we have a long way to go as a House in recognising the competency and ability of women appointed to these positions. The nominees who have been presented here have a wealth of experience that will take this country forward. They have significant experience as economists within the Ministry of Finance. Some of the roles of the CBK include managing monetary policy and macro-economic policies to ensure the stability and integrity of our nation and our currency. It also includes the management of our debt levels. They will be discussing the policies to ensure that they are implemented for this country to grow. Kenya is seeking to be a financial hub in Africa. Kenya is a member of the Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA). The Pan-African banking that is driving the new wave of financial integration that will bring many benefits to countries requires a board that has a significant broad-based experience and understanding of how various sectors of the Government work. The appointment of these directors will help this nation to move forward. The CBK has stayed for a year without a board of directors and the implementation and effective monitoring of policy in banking institutions has been quite a challenge. I would like to commend the President for these appointments especially on the sensitivity and the recognition of gender balance. Women are better financial managers. They are concerned. They are also effective and carry out their mandate at a higher level of ethics. Under their leadership, implementation comes at a significant level, higher than that of their male colleagues. The role of developing debt rates and strengthening the local economy is critical to the development of resilience to economic shocks in the Kenyan economy. I hope these nominees will look at the importance of these positons. Considering where Kenya is going, the level of development and the investments that are taking place in the country, we require a board that will coordinate a lot of activities to avoid conflict of interest and ensure that financial stability frameworks and policies are implemented. This will help Kenya to move from the current developing nation and probably become the Singapore of Africa.
The role of the CBK also involves the Government debt issuance. It is a key lender to corporate national banks. It functions as a bankers’ bank and administers external reserves, exchange and controls external financial relations. Looking at the depth of experience, I am The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
convinced Ms. Nelius Kariuki will be one of the competent directors, who will be extremely capable of performing this role on the board. When we look at the experience of Mr. Ravi Ruparel in terms of moving Kenya forward, he is very qualified.
I am highly concerned by the pettiness that some Members of this House are taking these appointments. All the nominees are Kenyans and they deserve to be appointed. They are neither strangers nor foreigners imported from somewhere else. When you apply for a position and you get it, this issue of asking or looking at where somebody comes from should not arise. Is it a criminal offence to come from central Kenya? I take personal exception to the comments of some of the Members of this House and the pettiness with which they present themselves. I support.
Hon. Thomas Mwadeghu.
Asante, Mhe. Naibu Spika, kwa nafasi hii uliyonipatia ili nami nitoe mchango wangu kuhusu wakurugenzi wa CBK ambao wamehojiwa na Kamati yetu ya Fedha, Mipango na Biashara. Kwanza, napinga Ripoti hii. Nina sababu zangu kwa nini sikubaliani nayo. Sababu ya kwanza ni kwamba tunatafuta wakurugenzi wa CBK. Sina haja ya ukabila. Hata kama kuna ukabila ambao utaonekana, kama mheshimiwa aliyezungumza hivi sasa alivyosema, basi peaneni kwa watu wenye ufasaha wa kazi, ambao wanaelewa na wana kisomo cha kiuchumi. Lakini nikianza kuangalia hapa, naona labda ndugu yangu Ruparel ana kisomo, ujuzi, ufasaha na anaelewa kazi ya kiuchumi. Huyo sina shida naye kama mkurugenzi wa CBK. Hata huyu shangazi Nelius Wanjiru Kariuki, nikiangalia kisomo na ufasaha wake ni nafuu. Anao ujuzi. Angalau amesoma na ana uzoefu lakini hawa wengine wote siwaungi mkono. Ninashangaa mwenyekiti mwenzangu wa Kamati hii ambaye nimefanya kazi naye katika Bunge la Kumi na ni Mhasibu mwenzangu, ameleta majina haya hapa Bungeni. Sikubaliani naye. Nilifanya kazi CBK nilipomaliza chuo kikuu. Nishafanya kazi kwa miaka minne katika Benki Kuu kabla wengine wenu hawajazaliwa. Katika Mwaka wa 1976 nilikuwa mfanyakazi wa Benki Kuu na hamkuweko. Sasa mnataka niweke sahihi kuwa nimekubali hawa ambao mnatuletea hapa kama wakurugenzi wa Benki Kuu. Nitahukumiwa na hisia zangu nikikubali mambo haya ya kuletewa majina na kuambiwa kuwa huyu anatoka kwenu. Kama hana ujuzi au ufasaha ama kama haelewi kazi, sitaunga mkono. Hatutafuti wahasibu. Tungekuwa tunatafuta wahasibu, ningekubaliana na Ripoti hii. Hatutafuti wahasibu. Tunatafuta wakurugenzi ambao wataelewa jinsi uchumi unavyoendelea. Juzi, tumepitisha Mswada hapa wa kuhakikisha kuwa riba za benki zinapunguzwa ama zinasalia hapo zilipo. Ni sababu ya ufasaha wa ndugu yangu ambaye aliuleta Mswada huo hapa. Alikuwa anaelewa anazungumza kuhusu nini. Tukiangalia vile hali ya uchumi ilivyo na jinsi benki zinavyoanguka, hata mwanasheria ambaye ana uzoefu wa sheria za benki hayupo hapa na mnataka nikubali kuwa Kamati imefanya kazi nzuri. Naomba niikosoe bila kujali. Kwa maoni yangu, Kamati hii haikufanya kazi ambayo inatakiwa kufanywa. Kama CBK imekaa bila wakurugenzi kwa muda huu wote na hawa ndio wakurugenzi walioletwa ili waanze pale wenzao walipoanzia, samahani, naomba nitoe maoni yangu na ghadhabu ambayo imenishika. Nikiona ndugu yangu anaenda kuwania kiti cha ugavana na ananiletea majina haya, nasikitika sana. Hii Ripoti siiungi mkono na Kamati yenyewe pia naikosoa kwa kuleta kazi ambayo haifai kuletwa Bungeni na wametumia pesa za umma. Napinga Ripoti hii na wakurugenzi hawa. Kama ningekuwa na idhini, ningewaomba Wabunge wenzangu waniunge mkono kuwa hawa ambao wameteuliwa na Kamati hii hawana uzoefu na kazi hii na itawaletea shida. Baadaye ni sisi watu wa Kenya watakaolalamika kuwa CBK haifanyi kazi au haiendeshwi vizuri. Hivi sasa The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
tukiangalia Ripoti ya Mkaguzi wa Hesabu za Serikali, tuna lawama na aliyekuwa mkuu wa CBK ambaye ameshastaafu. Alipitishwa hapa hapa baada ya lawama nyingi. Mnataka tena tufanye hivyo? Naomba iende katika nakala za Bunge na iwekwe wazi kuwa Mhe. Mwadeghu, siku hii ya leo, alitoa msimamo wake. Kwa haya mengi, ninapinga Ripoti hii. Asante.
Hon. Onesmas Ngunjiri.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I support the names which have been brought to the Floor of the House. However, seeing the mood of the House, I propose that you call the Mover to respond. I can see the mood. It is like we all together. Although there are some people who are doing politics and they are being seen in the media in their constituencies, I think we are okay. We agree with this. We all agree that it has gone through the right process. We agree with the Chair. They have done a good job. So, it is my humble request that you call the Mover to reply.
Hon. Members, I just have about seven names. If they take a minute each, we can still accomplish what we want to do and get them to say a word each. Hon. David Ochieng is next.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I would not want to so much talk about the names as I would want to talk about the kind of CBK that we want in this century. What kind of CBK does this country need going forward? Let us weigh the names we have been given against the requirements of the Constitution that the Board of Directors of the CBK will consist of independent people who will work without being controlled by anybody and people who will work without the direction of anybody. If they are people who understand the monetary policy, do they understand price stability and how the currency works? That is what the Constitution requires. They should have capacity to understand the role of the CBK. I do not want to blame any of them. I blame the Chairman of the Committee concerned. This is one of the areas where these names have not been got through any competitive process. The President sits and he is told to put so and so. It is different from what we did yesterday, where Justice Maraga was interviewed by the Judicial Service Commission (JSC). We saw him go through questions. Here is a situation where names are brought before us. The country relies on the Committee to not only vet persons, but to also interview them and determine whether they understand the role of the CBK. The Committee should also determine whether the nominees can undertake the roles. Hon. Deputy Speaker, I have looked through this Report and I have not seen any evidence that the nominees were put to questions that relate to the current state of the economy of our country. What did they think about financial deepening? What do they think about competition in the financial sector? What is their view about collusion among banks to fix interest rates and charges within the banking sector? I would have wanted to see evidence that the Committee understood the weight of the job it was given, which is bigger than what the Committee thought it was doing. If you look at this Report, you realise that even the CVs we have been given are so scattered. One person has a full CV and another one has half of a CV. The Committee is not telling us the relationship between those qualifications and the job at hand. I agree with Hon. Langat that these people are learned, but he is not telling us whether their being learned and the schools they went to are related to the work they are supposed to do. Sometimes we may want to blame those who have been nominated, but it is our job as Parliament to ensure that we understand what we are up to as a country. What sort of banks do we want in this century? Do The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
these people understand what their role is? Like what Hon. Mwadeghu has said, we are not looking for financial controllers, chief accountants or business managers. We are looking for members of the Board of Directors of the CBK. My former boss, who is the Chairman and the current Governor, needs a strong team to work with. He needs a team that need not be taught things afresh. You get underwhelmed when you look at this Report. You shudder whether these people will stand the political interference that sometimes happens with this kind of an institution. You see political appointees and not people with the requisite stuff and the spine. I did not see any of them being put to task to answer questions about how they would help save banks from falling and how they would resuscitate banks that are falling. We do not see that in this Report. So, if anybody outside Parliament picked this Report, he will not see the head or tail of it. The Report does not tell us where we should see the CBK in the next three years. We do not see it in this Report and yet we are nominating and approving names to one of the most important bodies in the financial sector in this country. I support these names, but in future, I hope this Committee can make good recommendations. Let us have a competitive process of appointing people to public bodies. Let us have a panel to select. Let us have interviews, so that the names that are approved are those of people with the capacity to do work. With those many remarks, I support, but with those riders.
Let us have Hon. Sakwa Bunyasi
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. From the outset, I would like to declare that I am a Member of the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade except that when this was being done on Friday, I was not present. Therefore, I have to air my views here as it is. Kenya has been very lucky to get one of the most highly qualified Central Bank governors globally. I am sure he holds his own ground and is an envy of many others when he interacts and meets with them. Secondly, almost by default, we were lucky to have vetted and approved him because he has the right values. He is not a material person. He is a very intellectual person with a strong spiritual founding. Today, we are talking about members of his Board and not him. However, there he is. I am just outlining something about him and it is pretty close to what he is. He needs a team that will add to what he is doing. He needs a team that will agree or disagree with him on a founded basis. With regard to the mainstay of the work of the CBK, it does an array of things. They look at the tax returns of banks, entities and they have technical staff to do that. However, the main focus at the policy level, as was alluded to by some earlier speakers, is principally monetary and financial policy. We have to provide the Governor with people at the board level who will lock up their doors and come out with an informed policy stance. We need people who will lock the doors and provide synergy to what the CBK Governor can do. In my view, we have an inherent weakness in the definition of “vetting”. It seems like we must approve everybody that comes on the vetting list. If I would have been present, I would have aired this in my Committee. I feel that among the five nominees, number one and two, Mr. Raparel and Ms. Nelius Kariuki, respectively, have qualifications that have something to do with this. As they sit on the board, I am sure they will pick up quickly. The others are very strong individuals, but their strength is mainly for the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) or other institutions, but not for the CBK. What I am saying has nothing to do with regions or ethnicity. I do not want to cheapen my argument on that basis. The first priority The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
when people are being selected is to map them on the basis of qualifications, suitability and skills. This should be irrespective of these other considerations that may lie in the Constitution. The Constitution does not say that you begin by choosing tribe. It says that we choose the best, but among them have an eye out for this distribution. So, the first priority ought to be that we map them out for suitability, qualifications, and skills. After that, we can map them out for gender. I must say that on gender, they have done very well. They have not picked the five from one gender, but three ladies out of five is a good thing. That is the second order of selection that you do after the first round has been fully mapped out. So, much as the House feels obligated to have to approve the nominees as if not approving would be a challenge to the President, I think that even the President is a man of meritocracy. I hear him say that all the time. We have Kenyans who are eminently qualified and they come from all corners of this country. When I worked for the World Bank, we had a Kenyan from Meru working at the Barclays Bank, who was one of the topmost economists at the World Bank. He had been to Yale and Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) as a visiting scholar. People like that do not get to see the light of day. He is well published in this area. He is highly qualified. I know we cannot reach everybody when we are doing this, but let us send the message across without fear or favour and without issues of ethnicity creeping in. Let us try and get the best Kenyans. Kenya is in the leadership position in the region and can also be in leadership position in the world in this particular respect. So, regarding the team of five persons that we have received, other than the first two names on the list, I do not find the other three persons suitably qualified. I have a partial support for the Report. Thank you Hon. Deputy Speaker
Let us have Hon. Ronald Tonui.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker for this opportunity to support the Motion. I sit in this Committee and we vetted these nominees and they qualify for the position for which they have been nominated for approval. I saw Charity Kisotu whom I can associate with given that her teaching background is similar to mine. She also has CPA qualifications. This was a very good choice given that the marginalised regions of this country were considered. These nominees have passion for the job. They talked about bank interest rates. Kenyans have suffered a lot when it comes to interest rates. The nominees embraced the recent law which we passed in this House on regulating bank interest rates. They talked passionately about this and I support them. On issues of safeguarding depositors’ money in banks, they showed us that they are well informed. They promised to ensure that the interests of depositors are taken care of and that under their watch, banks will not collapse anyhow thus leading to losses on the part of depositors. I could see they are in touch with the matter and that is a good thing. The issue of regional balance was well addressed. I can see representation from the Coast, Central, Rift Valley and Nyanza provinces. The Chairman of the Board of Directors of the CBK is from Nyanza Province. I believe in terms of regional balance, it is not badly off and it is a good thing. Even when it comes to the Rift Valley, there is somebody from the North and South and we are not complaining. I can see there is balance because it covers all the regions in the Rift Valley.
The good thing is that the CBK will have a Board of Directors who will give some guidelines to the Governor. We cannot stand the idea of the Governor who knows it all on issues finances. We can now have the Governor of the CBK guided by a Board of Directors. I only fear a situation where the Governor is required to make a prompt decision. Will he have to wait for The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
the Board of Directors to sit, so that they can make some certain decisions which are related to finances? That is a very important issue that needs to be addressed.
In terms of experience, all of them are highly experienced. I saw a former Permanent Secretary (PS), Madam Rachel Dzombo from Coast Province and she talked passionately about public service. She said that during her time as a Permanent Secretary, she ensured that her Ministry was nothing, but the best in terms of performance contracting. She performed very well. You could see passion flowing out of her and we could not deny her this position. We simply nominated her just from the way she expressed herself.
In terms of academics, none of them had less than a Bachelors Degree and accompanying Certified Public Accountants CPA(K) certificates among others. Even though Hon. Kaluma said they are quacks, I have watched him on television and what he expresses sometimes I doubt if they come from a real lawyer. In fact, I cannot employ him as my lawyer.
He normally interacts with those fellows in a very good way and I normally think he qualifies to fit in that general situation. In terms of issues of integrity, none of these people have been accused of any fraudulent activities. You can see in their CVs that they are people who have struggled to go through the system in a fair way. They gave us a breakdown of their net worth and based on their earnings, we saw these are people who have earned whatever they have in a proper way. They did not use any shortcut. Therefore, I support the approval of all the nominees.
Hon. James Nyikal. Members, you keep on adding requests. I thought we were finishing. Other Members have now pressed their buttons. I thought the agreement was that we were winding up this debate, but new Members are coming in and placing requests. Maybe we should do what Hon. Ngunjiri said and ask the Mover to respond.
At the time I was saying that, we only had a few requests and that is why I allowed the few who were on the line, but that position has changed.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. It is with a heavy heart that I comment on this. I really do not like discussions that tend to look at people in terms of their ethnic backgrounds. It is not good for the country, but it is better to look at the technical qualifications of people. Even the issue of marginalisation should not come up. When you are dealing with a technical issue, being marginalised cannot give you technical capability. You cannot say you are going to operate on me just because you are marginalised. You have to be a surgeon. I am not happy because all these people with the exception of probably No.1, have been technical people. The most senior person who rose through the ranks was Madam Dzombo, to the level of Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Gender, Children and Social Development. This was very appropriate because her qualifications are in Social Science and she rose in the public service. This is perfectly appropriate. None of these people except No.1 is a finance person. All of them are economists.
On a point of order.
The only positions they have risen to are either general managers or accountants and that is what they achieved. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Order! Hon. Nyikal, just allow that point of order by Hon. Mary Emaase.
On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I do not know whether Hon. Nyikal has read this Report. By alleging that they are not finance people, has he looked at the qualifications of the first one?
No. He already said apart from the first one. So, do not start with that one.
Even Nos.3 and 4 are finance people and have CPA(K) certificates. So, by saying that they do not have the qualifications, I think the Member is misleading the House.
My point was very clear. Although I do not know the technical aspect of this area, but accounts is different from finance. I agree with you and I said at the beginning that the first person has massive experience in accounts and international experience. All these people, the highest positions they have held are in local companies here which are not very big including management of hospitals and the Kenchic firm. They have no international experience. The first person does and there is no question about that and probably to a little extent, the second person with her experience is mainly being in boards of directors.
The truth is that we could have done better. I can consider No.1 and 2. Some are still going to school and the highest they have risen to is accountants in companies. They are not finance people in the international context and do not know about running the national economy and competing in the international world. Let me just end by saying that I will ask my friend, who is the Principal Secretary for the National Treasury, Dr. Kamau Thugge, if he looked at this list and made a decision. At his level, I am quite sure he will probably say what I have said. I do not even want to go to regional and gender balance. The first failure in this Report is technical except for the first two. We are talking of the CBK and we cannot take people who are accountants in companies and say that they are finance people who we want to manage our CBK.
I oppose this Report.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker for giving me a chance to contribute to this Report.
Hon. Angwenyi, you were in and I was about to give you a chance, but I saw you leaving the Chamber. I have just noticed that you have come back. I recognise you are a senior Member of this House, but you have to stay in the Chamber, so that I can give you a chance.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker for giving me a chance to give my views on the appointment of members of the Board of Directors of the CBK.
If there is one thing I have noticed in the 11th Parliament, is that we stand up very quickly on many occasions defending people and appointees who come from our communities and areas. It has happened before and it happens time and again. If anything, I would be the first one to stand up and rejoice just because one of the appointments in this list is from the Indian community. But look at the record of Mr. Ravi Ruparel. Inside out, this gentleman has it all. I am standing in sheer happiness, raising my hand and saying that I agree with this appointment because, honestly, had he not had this background, I would probably not be contributing wholeheartedly. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
First of all, as a House, we need to contribute towards the background of each candidate. Whatever has been contributed so far on this Report on the Floor of the House has been documented in the HANSARD in terms of what each one of us has said about this Report. It has been mentioned that we should be giving opportunities to women, youth and persons with disabilities. Our country harbours 42 plus one tribes. The Jubilee Government has tried in appointing women and people with disabilities to public offices. There is no doubt about that. We should commend the Government for that. As we approach a very tense year towards the elections, we have to ask ourselves whether we are getting the right people in place prior to 2017. Will we be confident enough that while we are busy out there campaigning, we have the right people in public offices to hold our country together? Are we making the right decisions? That is how we need to make our appointments and move forward. In brief, Africa is a very unique case study because it is the jewel of the world. It has always been and will always be and that is why we have unique problems. Unique problems need unique people and those are the people we require to run our Government. Those are the people we need on boards such as the CBK Board of Directors. I support.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. From the outset, I would like to suggest that I might not have a direct position in terms of who to separate, who to accept and who to refuse. Generally, because of the appointment and the rules which have been played here, I want to say that I support. I want to call on this House to look at Article 231 of the Constitution, which establishes the CBK. Article 231(1) and (2) provides that the directors must be persons who have monetary, financial, banking and economic backgrounds. This does not mean that one has to have all the four elements to qualify as a member of the CBK Board of Directors. It requires directors with full control of monetary, financial, banking and economic backgrounds. That is why I started by saying it is difficult to say we support all the five. The experience the last three have is not the issue of qualification. Academically, they are qualified, but to sit in the board, you need experience. You must be a mover of a process. You must set direction of the organisation which you are chairing or sitting in. The CBK Governor shall fully rely on the Board of Directors to help run the monetary and fiscal policies in this country. If we get directors who do not have real background in terms of experience, it becomes a challenge. With that in mind, the first and second candidates get thumbs up. They have the experience it takes, but the last three, in terms of experience, there is a problem. Now that they are qualified, they have the standing in terms of academics. They need not have all the four parameters to sit in the board. I support the appointment to allow the persons to move on. However, future appointments should be checked. I want to use this chance to make a suggestion that the appointments should not only be done in terms of vetting like we have done for the CBK. The recruitment exercise not only allows the President to appoint, but also provides a process. Let there be interviews. Let the process be competitive, so that we get the best brains out of which the President can nominate and bring the names to this House for approval. With that, I support.
Hon. Jimmy Angwenyi. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker, for giving me a chance to contribute to this important Report. I am sometimes surprised by Members of Parliament questioning qualifications of people who are better educated than themselves.
This House determines the policy of the entire country and makes laws that govern the entire country. This House makes financial decisions that affect the entire country, but how many of us are lawyers? How many of us are financial experts? How many of us are economists like myself? Some of us do not understand what a Masters in Business Administration means. They do not know the curriculum for that. Some of us do not understand that when you do a degree in Business Education, Economics or Business Studies, a lot of financial studies are covered. A lot of background and basic economics is done. These directors are not going to be experts. We have experts in each field in each department within the CBK. Most of the 2,000 employees are experts in various areas. These nominees are supposed to offer policy direction. They assist the Governor to decide on policy. In this House, we brag to be on top of things yet we have not even been able to legislate on the minimum qualification for a Member of Parliament, for example, whether it should be a PhD. I have been a graduate lecturer. So, they are all qualified. We should thank the President who sent the names to us to have given a specific consideration to gender. You know our womenfolk have been having very poor consideration in most of these appointments. In this case, he has given them two-thirds unlike in most other cases. We should commend and encourage him to do the same in future appointments. With those few remarks, I beg to support.
Hon. Mary Emaase.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I was busy congratulating Hon. Jimmy because he has spoken very well. I am a Member of the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade and I was present during the interviews. I am surprised when I listen to my colleagues alleging these candidates are not qualified. We asked all those questions that Hon. Ochieng and Hon. Nyikal raised. We asked what the candidates think. We put questions to these candidates with respect to the issue of the challenges that are affecting the banking sector, interest rates and banks that have collapsed. We told them that they need to build confidence and protect Kenyans’ money and ensure that these banks survive. They gave us good answers and we are convinced that all of them qualify. When you look at Ravi, he has an MBA in Finance and worked for the World Bank and Deloitte. Other nominees like Nelius, have good experience. Mr. Cherutich has worked in Nairobi Hospital for over 11 years as the Financial Controller and other companies. Some people are calling them small companies. I do not know how small they are. He has training in finance and accounting. If you look at Kisotu, she has an MBA in Economics and a Bachelor’s Degree in Education. She is a Certified Public Accountant (CPA)K, a Certified Public Secretary and has worked in a number of companies. There is no question as to their qualifications. In any case, for a board, all the members should not necessarily be drawn from the finance sector. In fact, it is in order to balance the nominees, so that the board can benefit and be advised accordingly by individuals with different backgrounds to enrich the decisions and directions of the institutions. All the directors do not have to come from the finance background. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
On the issue of gender representation, the appointments are quite responsive.
On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker.
Hon. Mary, order!
Hon. Member, I read this document fairly carefully. She has mentioned that Ms. Kisotu is a Certified Public Accountant and yet she is currently pursuing the qualification as a Certified Public Accountant. She is not a Certified Public Accountant.
I said Certified Public Secretary.
Yes, Certified Public Secretary, but she is not. That is what I am saying. Some of them are still studying. That was a point of misinformation.
The most relevant is the one on CPA. She holds CPA and has an MBA. To me, she is qualified for this position. I was on the gender issue. The appointments were quite responsive because out of the five nominees, we have three ladies. On regional balance, the Report is quite responsive. However, my only reservation was that the minority regions like the Teso community are missing. I hope that next time we will see a Teso or a Turkana somewhere. My only concern was for the marginalised regions to be recognised in the next appointments. Otherwise, I support this Report. These candidates are qualified. In terms of gender, there were more ladies than men in this list. I support.
Hon. Francis Waititu.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to support the adoption of this Report. Having listened to the contributions by Hon. Members, it is high time we agreed to support the candidates. I wish you could read the mood of the House and call upon the Mover to reply.
Hon. Members, the Member has requested. It is always put to the vote.
On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker.
Hon. Kaluma, what is your point of order? You do not stand before you are given the chance to contribute.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, you know we are talking about a very serious legislation. We are talking about the CBK. This is not the kind of Motion people can be jolted to debate. We do not have quorum to transact this business before any Question is put, so that we can debate this issue properly. We are dealing with the CBK yet we are barely 40 Members. I am asking for the ascertainment of quorum.
Hon. Members, we know the rules of the House. We are 27 Members in the House. Can the Quorum Bell be rung? I am sure we can raise quorum. It is not a lot of quorum for us to raise. Let us just get Members in and finish this business. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Member for Ainamoi, let us get Members from out there. This is a House of rules and once a Member has raised the issue of quorum, we have to get it.
Hon. Members, we can now settle down. We have raised the necessary quorum. We can transact this business and complete it. Who was on the Floor? Was it Hon. Waititu? Let us proceed quickly and finish this business when we are properly constituted. Hon. Waititu.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I had requested the Mover to be called upon to reply because we were all in agreement.
Yes, and I was at the point of putting the Question for Members to decide whether the Mover should be called upon to reply.
The Mover can reply.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I want to thank Members who have contributed to this Motion. I want to emphasise that all the nominees are qualified to hold the position of member of the Board of the Central Bank of Kenya. Despite all the questions we have heard, all the nominees are very qualified. I request Members to support. Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to move.
Do we have Hon. Chepkong’a?
As we do not have the Chair and Vice-Chair of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs, we will postpone consideration of that Order and continue with the next Order in the Order Paper. We may remain in the House.
The Deputy Leader of the Majority Party.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the Public Private Partnerships (Amendment) Bill, 2016 be now read a Second Time.
The provision of public infrastructure, including power, road, rail, sea and airports, and services, including water, health and sanitation is a key mandate of governments the world over. These public goods are fundamental prerequisites for economic growth and development. Fiscal constraints experienced by countries, however, have resulted in the development of new and innovative approaches to the provision and financing of public infrastructure and services. Kenya adopted a public-private partnership (PPP) framework reflecting the Government’s desire to improve the quality, quantity, cost-effectiveness and timely provision of much-needed public infrastructure and services in Kenya. The private provision of public infrastructure and services has the potential to offer enhanced value for money and enables the Government to use the private sector’s delivery and projects completion expertise and capability for the benefit of the people. The Government’s first step was to strengthen the legal and regulatory framework for carrying out PPPs in Kenya, as part of a wider agenda of increasing private sector investments in infrastructure development. In March 2009, the Government established an institutional framework through regulations issued under the Public Procurement Disposal Act, that is, the Public Private Partnership Regulations of 2009. In 2010 a review of Kenya’s legal and regulatory framework recommended the enactment of a PPP law to address the identified gaps, inconsistencies, conflicts and overlaps. In December 2011, the Government approved a PPP policy statement which led to the enactment of the PPP Act (No. 15 of 2013). The PPP (Amendment) Bill, 2016, read for the first time in this House on 19th July 2016, proposes, in summary, to:- (i) Amend the PPP Act of 2013 to recognise county governments as distinct contracting authorities for PPP projects; and (ii) Provide for guidelines to be made by the Cabinet Secretary to facilitate the manner in which county governments may deal with PPP arrangements. I now seek to highlight the proposed amendments contained in this Bill. The amendment contained in Clause 2 amends Section 2 of the Act by deleting the definition of “contracting authority” and substituting it with a new definition. The new definition clearly recognises the two levels of government and also recognises that a county government may have a county corporation which is now recognised as a contracting authority. The amendment contained in Clause 3 repeals Section 3 of the Act and replaces it with a new section which expands the instances where the Act applies to include any contract for the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
design or management of a project, or for the provision of public services undertaken as a PPP. This new section comprehensively deals with instances where the Act applies. The amendment contained in Clause 4 introduces a new Section 3A which expressly exempts the contracts under the Act from the requirements of the Public Procurement and Asset Disposal Act, 2015. Clause 5 of the Bill seeks to amend Section 15 of the Act by including county governments as one of the entities that the Cabinet Secretary (CS) shall make rules for with regard to its relationship with the unit. Previously, the county governments had not been included under this provision. Clause 6 of the Bill actually repeals Section 20 of the Act. Clause 7 of the Bill amends Section 24(1) of the Act by requiring that the county priority list shall be subject to approval by the county Government and submitted to the unit for publication alongside the national Government priority list. This makes it mandatory for the county priority list to be approved by the county governments. Clause 8 of the Bill amends Section 31(3) by requiring a contracting authority that considers it appropriate to implement a project through a public private partnership to submit a report on consideration, analysis and a project proposal in relation to the project, to the units for approval in the prescribed form as opposed to the committee, which was the case previously. This is in line with Sections 23 and 24 whereby, the contracting authority submits the list to the units which in turn submit to the committee. Clause 9 of the Bill amends Section 49 of the Act by providing that the contracting authority shall submit evaluation report to the unit for concurrence as opposed to the previous position whereby they submitted evaluation reports to the committee for approval. This is in line with the practice of contracting authority submitting reports to the units as opposed to the committee. Ultimately, the report is submitted to the committee for approval by the unit. Clause 10 of the Bill amends Section 51 of the Act by introducing five new sub-sections. The proposed sub-sections provide that the proposal evaluation team may reject all submissions by bidders where they do not comply with the provisions. The proposal evaluation team is also required, where it rejects a submission, to prepare and submit to the Accounting Officer. The Accounting Officer is then required to inform the bidder of the decision of the contracting authority. The purpose of this amendment is to outline the process to be followed in case a bid is rejected which had not been provided for. Clause 11 of the Bill amends Section 54 of the Act by deleting 54(2) and substituting it with a new sub-section which provides that if the committee is satisfied with the project report, financial risk assessment report under recommendation of the unit, it shall approve the execution of the public private partnership agreement with the successful bidder. Clause 12 of the Bill introduces a new Section 54A which provides the procedure for county governments public private partnership projects. Finally, Clause 13 of the Bill amends Section 67 of the Act by deleting 2(b) and substituting with a new paragraph which provides for a minimum of six members and a maximum of eight members to be appointed as members of the petition committee. Previously, the number of these members was determined by four only. Further, Paragraph (c) which also includes the unit director as a member of the petition committee is proposed to be deleted. This may not be advisable as the unit director is quite knowledgeable in the affairs of the unit and his input is necessary when determining petitions and complaints. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
I wish to assure all Hon. Members that the proposal in the Bill complies with the provisions of the Constitution and recognises the two levels of Government and it is important that there are amendments proposed in this Bill. If we approve the amendments proposed in this Bill, we will immensely improve the operations and regulations of these public private partnerships in this country. I beg to move and ask Hon. Benjamin Langat to second.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker---
Hon. Benjamin Langat, yes, I know you are going to second. However, I would ask you to hold on because the Hon. Speaker had granted Hon. Nooru’s request that the House adjourns at 5.30 p.m. so that it can discuss a matter of national importance. The time now is 5.30 p.m. Hon. Langat, you will do your seconding of this Motion next time the House sits. I would like to allow, in accordance with the directions of the Speaker, Hon. Nooru to move for discussion of this matter of national importance.
Hon. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order No.33(1) I seek leave of the House for the purpose of deliberating on hunger situation in the country which is facing majority of Kenyans due to prolonged drought in many parts of this country. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that due to the failure of long rains between March and May this year, the arid and semi-arid lands and most of the agricultural zones have been affected by this situation more so, the Eastern part, North Eastern, South Eastern and parts of the Coast Region. This has affected the household food availability as well as the livestock productivity. Most of these arid lands which have been depending on livestock for their livelihood have really been affected. The situation has been worsened by the increase in price of food and the diminishing power of purchase due to the high inflation rate in this country today. Therefore, most people are malnourished; mostly the children and pregnant mothers. Most water tables have decreased leading to most of the boreholes being dry. There are two critical issues of humanity. They are water which is life and food which has become a dream for most of the families in those regions which have been affected. The counties which are more affected are:-Turkana; Baringo; Samburu; Wajir; Isiolo; Tana River; Kilifi; West Pokot; parts of Kajiado; Marsabit and part of Kwale, Coast. It is very unfortunate that every year when there is drought, we are caught pants down. This country has been facing these severe droughts year after year. However, it seems all the time we are not prepared. Every now and then we have been thinking how to mitigate this drought. The unfortunate thing is that this country has never been prepared for this situation despite experiencing these severe droughts after every one or two years. Under Article 43 of the Constitution of Kenya, it is a right of every Kenyan to get adequate water for their livelihood. Unfortunately, the Government is unable to meet this obligation. There is no way we can keep on mitigating the effects of drought and when it is over, we forget about it. If this country is able to pump fuel from Mombasa to Kisumu, why can we not pump fresh water from Lake Victoria to Mandera and Wajir through Marsabit, Turkana, Samburu and Isiolo? We can solve these problems. It seems that we are not addressing this The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
situation. We only engage in mitigation measures when there is an emergency but when the emergency is over, say, when we have little showers of rain, we forget about the whole situation. It is unfortunate that devolution is here with us. This is because it has brought more problems. Look at the issue of food production, it has been left to the counties. The issue of livestock and water has been devolved but what are the devolved units doing about this situation? Despite the fact that Kenya is a signatory to the Maputo Declaration of 2005 that requires every African country to allocate 10 per cent of its budget to agriculture, today, we are budgeting for 2 per cent among three critical sectors. The State Department of Fisheries, the State Department of Livestock and Agriculture combined get less than 10 per cent of the Government Budget. How do you get out of this situation of food insecurity? We need the Government to allocate enough funds for these Arid and Semi-Arid (ASAL) areas to produce more food. We have been thinking of the Jubilee policy of irrigating one million acres in this country but how much have we irrigated so far? On the issue of resource allocation, despite the fact that resource allocation in this sector is very meagre in terms of food and livestock production, the little that we have is so much uncoordinated that when we have drought, every sector runs on its own. I urge the Government to coordinate this process in a better way. It can be coordinated from one centre. It will not help to have the Ministries of Devolution and Planning, Water and Irrigation and Agriculture running their own individual programmes. Despite the fact that the Government has declared that 1.6 million Kenyans require food assistance and water, the number is increasing day and night. We only come in when the situation has worsened rather than reading the warning signs of shortage of rain. Our weatherman is doing a very good job but nobody bothers to address those issues on time and plan ahead. We only run around until the situation has reached a critical point when people have lost their livestock or when human life is almost lost. That is the time we run around that there is a problem here and there without enough resources being mobilised. It then becomes a big issue. There is a demonstration in the North Rift because of surplus of food; that the Government should buy maize. On the other hand, there a people who are crying that the Government should buy them food. Look at the imbalances that we have in this country. There is enough food rotting in the farms and yet there are people in dire need of food in some parts of the country. This is as a result of misplaced priorities. I know resources have never been enough to save the situation. I want the Government not to wait until people die, or until the situation reaches a point of no return in order to start declaring disaster. We better declare disaster at this early time so that we can mobilise the resources locally and appeal to the international community to intervene before the situation gets out of hand. The other issue which is very critical is the issue of coordination of these resources and taking mitigation measures. If it will not rain in the next two weeks, half of this country is going to be in a disastrous situation. Therefore, the Government should stand up and do the best it can in terms of resource mobilisation and also appeal to the international community so that they can come in and start assisting in terms of mitigating this worsening situation. The Government should also plan ahead to stem this kind of situation because it keeps on recurring. We do not learn from experience. It will not take more than two years before we have drought of this nature in this country. It seems that it is always a new situation to us. We are always running around trying to mobilise resources which are not there sometimes. Therefore, Kenyans are in dire need of those two very essential commodities. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Members, on this kind of Motion, we have five minutes each. We shall start with Hon. Andrew Mwadime.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for the opportunity. At the outset, just for information purposes, Taita Taveta is one of the Arid and Semi-Arid Lands where people are dying of hunger yet it is not in the list read out by the Mover. There is no water. Elephants of Tsavo are also fighting for water with human beings. At the moment, there is unusual drought. We have not seen this kind of drought for the last three years. As Hon. Nooru said, it is very serious. If the Government does not intervene, there is going to be a problem. I wish he includes Taita Taveta in the list especially Mwatate Constituency. Thank you.
Very well. We shall have Hon. Tobiko, Member for Kajiado East.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. This is a timely Motion because we are facing drought, particularly in the arid parts of this country. Among the places that the Mover mentioned is Kajiado. We are facing water scarcity. We are also fighting for scarce resources like pasture with the wildlife. My constituency is sandwiched among three national parks: Nairobi National Park, Tsavo National Park and Amboseli National Park. In many places, we have human-wildlife conflict because of this drought. The wildlife is coming out of the parks searching for water and pasture. It is true that the Government needs to come up with measures to mitigate the situation. We should not be having cycles of drought which we do not address. Every other time there is drought we talk and do not take measures to address the situation. There was a time we had a Ministry specifically addressing issues in ASAL areas. Through this Ministry, I thought necessary policies and regulations would be targeted towards the arid lands. Now that this Ministry is not there, the Equalisation Fund should be targeted towards these arid lands including Kajiado. Sometime back, Kajiado was listed as one of the richest counties, but I would like to take Members of this House on a tour of my constituency. We have needy Kenyans who have been hit by this drought. People and their livestock have been badly hit. Wild animals have now stopped our children from going to schools. In places like Kiboko, Ilkelunyeti up to Kunju, pupils no longer go to schools, and if they must, they have to be escorted by parents because elephants from the parks are now roaming in villages. The county governments should be taken to task because we have allocated them a lot of resources that must be used to address drought, particularly in terms of providing water. Not much is happening in our counties. Our people are suffering. We are not feeling the impact of devolution yet we allocated counties a lot of resources. It is either there is an issue in the management of counties or resources do not reach there. Those in towns are also suffering because of dust and they no longer get vegetables from rural areas. My town, Kitengela is all dusty. Our constituents have a way of running to us because they do not understand that resources are at the county level. This is a timely Motion. This House should take a resolution that will address the situation and permanently mitigate drought in this country. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Very well spoken. Let us now have Hon. Chris Wamalwa.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for this opportunity. At the outset, I would like to say that it is very embarrassing that our people are starving yet Kenya is a middle-income economy. The Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) provide a global The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
framework whereby all countries try to follow. The second SDG says that there should be no hunger. I would like to thank Hon. Nooru for this Motion. I wish Garre Elders were listening to this.
We need Hon. Nooru in the next Parliament. Despite his advanced age, I would like to say he is a very active Member. I serve with him in the same Committee. We lose a lot of money in this country through corruption. We lose about Kshs. 400 billion yet Kenyans are starving. People are starving in North Eastern and Taita Taveta. It is the Government’s responsibility to ensure the security of its people. Food security is critical as far as security of Kenyans is concerned. We have wasted a lot of money in white elephant projects. We have been told about the Galana-Kulalu Irrigation Scheme. The Jubilee Government had a policy of irrigating one million hectares of land. We are almost going to the elections, how many hectares have so been irrigated to ensure food security? Despite several billions that have been invested in the Galana-Kulalu Irrigation Scheme, returns are negligible. God blessed the Uasin Gishu and Trans Nzoia counties in the North Rift with adequate rains and good soil. The Government should not miss priorities. They should go to those regions and invest. They should provide free fertilisers so that they can produce enough food that can be taken to other regions like the North Eastern so that people do not starve. Article 43(1) of the Constitution is very clear. The President and the Members of Parliament must defend our Constitution. Article 43(1) of the Constitution states:- “Every person has a right - (c) to be free from hunger, and to have adequate food of acceptable quality. (d) to clean and safe water in adequate quantities.” We have a lot of challenges as far as climate change is concerned. We must do a proper environmental impact analysis before any project is undertaken. Recently, we heard about the Murang’a Northern Tunnel. We are told that we are going to have disasters in future. We are demanding answers. We want to know if a proper environmental impact analysis was done in Murang’a. Are we just implementing projects for the sake of it? There are a lot of changes in the environment that contribute to climate change, and in the long run, they affect food production. In regions like Garissa where Hon. Duale comes from, if there is no water, all animals will die. I was happy to hear that the Jubilee was coming up with the insurance policy for these animals. How far is that policy? Is it just a policy on the paper or is it in place? We know that water is life. We should develop some strategies that will help us in ensuring that Kenyans will never starve. Recently, we saw a World Bank rating that placed Kenya on top. We cannot be a middle- income economy yet our people are starving. It is the responsibility of Government to ensure that it feeds its people. We should allocate more money to the authority that is responsible for mitigating drought so that Kenyans do not---
Hon. Wamalwa, I understand you are used to speaking for 10 minutes. On this particular Motion, contribution time was reduced to five minutes. Hon. Members, you know what our Standing Orders tell us about priority in speaking. I can see interest from the Leader of the Majority Party. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for reading the Standing Orders. These are some of the privileges that a leader gets. I am attending a meeting chaired by the Speaker on national honours. We will honour some of our Members this year. I would like to thank Hon. Nooru for bringing this Motion. Drought is there. It is not the first time Kenya is experiencing drought and it has nothing to do with the Murang’a tunnel. It is a cycle of drought. If Raila Odinga or Kalonzo Musyoka were the Presidents, we would still have a drought. We are here this afternoon to raise the status of the drought just the way the weatherman raises it from yellow to red. The rains have delayed in Nairobi. Those of us who believe in the weather as pastoralists, know that by 15th October 2016, the rain should have begun but you can see that even in Nairobi the rains have delayed. We pray to God that we get rain maybe at the end of the month.
This is very sad and that is why I raise it here. Fourteen of the counties that suffer drought cumulatively received Khs160 billion in the last three budgets in the last three years. These counties include Samburu, Turkana, Marsabit, Garissa, Wajir, Mandera and Kitui. They received Kshs160 billion. Why we asked for a devolved system of government was to manage the resources. We expected our county governments to invest heavily in water and health. We expected them to build more boreholes. We thought that with the advent of devolution, the first priority of a county government in the ASAL areas would be water for our people and for our livestock. I am not just raising figures. My county receives Kshs7.5 billion. Wajir County receives Kshs8.5 billion while Mandera County received over Kshs10 billion. The North Eastern region receives Kshs30 billion. It is morally wrong for a governor to stand in front of a camera and ask where the national Government is.
I assure the House that this morning, the Cabinet Secretary (CS) for the National Treasury called an emergency meeting with the CS for water, CS for Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries and the CS for Devolution. The President will launch a large scale intervention maybe by Monday or Tuesday, where government agencies will draw all the water bowsers they have from all the water service boards, regional authorities, the National Youth Service (NYS) and the military. Over 70 water bowsers will be availed to be sent to specific constituencies. We have also asked the CS for Devolution to make sure that each and every Kenyan has food. Parliament is under obligation. We are going to regularise for him in the Supplementary Budget. He can spend Kshs2 billion. That is what they are planning to do. So, Government is alive to it. However, for how long are we going to be reactive? For how long are we going to say every time we want emergency relief? We want our county governments to invest in water. I know some people will accuse me but in my community they say even the devil must have his due. The governor of Wajir is not my friend but let me say what he has done. He has dug more boreholes than any other governor in North Eastern or in ASAL areas. Today, some of the livestock from Mandera and Garissa are in Wajir. If each and every governor invested---
Give the Leader of the Majority Party some two more minutes.
Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. We should not use the suffering of our people for politics. I warn Hon. Chris Wamalwa, my very good friend. You can hang on anything else but you cannot hang on the problems facing our people. We will have a kamukunji of wazees either at the bar or at the tea place to deal with you and ask you why you are using our people for politics. The drought has nothing to do with Murang’a. I want you to tell your boss, Hon. Raila Odinga, that he is the one who initiated this thing. If the problem is about the 10 per cent, I want to volunteer myself to go and help him get that 10 per The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
cent. I know Raila more than all of you. I worked with him and he was my buddy. It is about the commission on the project that he signed before the last Government. So, it is not about North Eastern, Murang’a or the tunnel. It is about personal interest. Please, do not bring the Murang’a thing to the good Motion by Hon. Nooru. I am sure the Government is listening. The national Government has a programme but our brothers and sisters who run the county governments have no moral high ground to accuse anybody else. You must give our people the money that the Senate and the National Assembly have appropriated in the name of county allocation. I support the Motion. We pray to God. I am a prayerful man like Hon. Chris Wamalwa. Lastly, when I was a young man and the rains had disappeared, we used to do prayers for the rains in a form of a demonstration. The Sheikhs used to lead. These days, people do not want to believe in God. I ask the Sheikhs in northern Kenya to call us to pray to God to give us rain. We do not believe in the Council of Elders. They only deal with politics. Thank you very much. I support.
We shall now have Hon. Fatuma Ibrahim, Member for Wajir.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. First, I appreciate Hon. Nooru for bringing this timely Motion. I have just come from Wajir today at around midday. I was in the field yesterday until 8.00 p.m. trying to see the situation. The situation is really bad. When a national disaster happens or when a national concern is raised, the defined functions of counties and the national Government cease to operate. I want to confirm here that the Wajir County Government is trying to support this process of cushioning livestock farmers and families which are affected. The situation is really bad. A committee of Parliament should tour these affected counties. They are more than 20. They are not just in North Eastern, Coast, Upper Eastern or North Rift regions. Many parts of the Eastern and Lower Eastern areas are affected. Others are North Eastern, Upper Eastern, Coast and the North Rift. In such circumstances, it is a national disaster and it requires the intervention of the national Government. It is not about demarcating the functions of the national Government and county governments. It is overwhelming for the county governments. It requires the urgent intervention of the national Government. Some of the situations are extremely devastating in terms of the biting drought. Our national Government must bring a quick intervention in terms of food and other contingencies. Yesterday, I was with the County Commissioner for Wajir and I requested to have some emergency food rations and water to support families that we met on the road. I want to say it here strongly that he said that he has not received support from the national Government for the countrywide intervention in this biting drought. I do not want to misquote him but what he said is he has received very negligible food rations which are not even enough for one division. The county government is also intervening. The County Government of Wajir has been having crisis meetings trying to purchase food and to do water trucking. We have seen many centres with water but this is not enough for the livestock and the human beings who are extremely in a bad state. The scenario we are talking about in Wajir and many parts of the country is the nomadic communities who are moving around to look for water. One of the other challenges we have right now is conflict-related resources where people are fighting over resources like boreholes to water their animals and for their domestic use. Many schools in rural areas have been closed because of this lack of water. This is a function of the national Government. The Ministry can do The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
that because it is a national function. What shocks me in this country is that we are dealing with reactive interventions instead of putting in place a well laid out intervention to cushion livestock farmers and people who are always affected by drought. We know that drought is a natural phenomenon, but we can prevent deaths and sufferings of citizen. We cannot say we are prepared to protect citizens from suffering. You should see women and children struggling in those affected counties. Sometimes you wonder who will rescue them and safeguard their lives. Sometimes when you see the suffering in the eyes of children and mothers you ask yourself if it is useful to have some of these provisions in our Constitution.
We shall have Hon. Zuleikha.
Shukrani sana Mheshimiwa Naibu Spika wa Muda kwa kunipatia nafasi hii kuchangia Hoja hii muhimu sana. Nataka kumshukuru Mheshimiwa Nooru kwa kuleta Hoja hii hapa Bungeni. Hili jambo limenitamausha sasa kwa kiasi cha wiki nzima. Nimehuzunika kusikia na kuona jinsi watu wanavyoteseka katika kaunti yangu ya Kwale. Hili jambo halijaanza jana, juzi wala wiki jana. Hii mvua ilipoanza miezi kadhaa iliyopita ilikuwa chache sana na kulikuwepo na dalili ya ukame. Kuna akina nyanya ambao hawajawahi kuenda shule lakini walitabiri kwamba mwaka huu kutakuwepo njaa. Itakuwaje wataalamu ambao wameandikwa kazi na Serikali hawawezi kujua kama huu mwaka kungekuwa na ukame? Hivyo, tungejitayarisha mapema kwa chakula na maji. Mimi nimezunguka sehemu za Kaunti ya Kwale. Katika wadi ya Puma nilipata wanawake wakanieleza kuwa kuna njaa. Wao huamka asubuhi lakini hawana chai, wala chakula. Wao hushinda hivyo mchana kutwa bila chakula. Ifikapo jioni, bado huwa hawajala chochote. Wana watoto wadogo. Ni ajabu kwamba mtoto wa miaka miwili au saba anaishi bila chakula! Saa hizi hamna chakula kwa sababu mvua haikutosha. Mahindi hayakupatikana. Maji hayapo na yakipatikana ni mwendo mrefu sana. Lakini watu wanaenda wakiteka maji ya chini ambayo ni machafu. Hivyo ndivyo wanasukuma gurudumu la maisha. Hivi sasa yale maji ya chini yamekauka kabisa kwa hivyo hawana njia yoyote ya kupata maji safi. Bila shaka kama hakuna mtu ama shirika lolote ambalo limeenda kujua kama kuna watu wamefariki kwa sababu ya hili janga, nina hakika watu wamefariki maanake wiki zilizopita nilienda nikaonana na watu wagonjwa wanaomeza dawa lakini hawana chakula. Bila shaka kuna watoto na wengineo ambao wameathirika . Pia nimepata habari kutoka kwa Wadi ya Kasemeni ya kuwa Serikali ya Kaunti imejenga sehemu za akina mama kujifungulia katika zahanati, lakini zahanati hazina maji. Hivi sasa nimeambiwa kuna wanawake wanajifungua watoto na hakuna hata maji ya kuosha mtoto. Vile mama alivyojifungua ndio vile anarudi aende mpaka nyumbani kwa sababu hakuna maji. Hivi sasa mifugo; ng’ombe, mbuzi na kadhalika wanafariki, kitu ambacho ni mali ya hawa watu wa Kwale ambao wanaishi sehemu za Kinango, Lunga Lunga na baadhi ya sehemu za Matuga. Hata mvua ikija watakuwa wamepata hasara sana. Ninashangaa, kama chama chetu cha ODM kimeweza kutetea ugatuzi ukaja tukafaulu na ukapita, kuna shida gani? Pesa zimetolewa na Bunge za Seneti na Taifa na Bunge hili letu wamehakikisha kuwa senti zinafika kaunti lakini miaka mine sasa kaunti hazijaweza kufanya miradi ya kudumu katika hii sehemu. Kuna sehemu zina maji lakini zingine zina ukame zaidi. Ingekuwa vyema hizo kushughulikiwa. Saa zingine wanalaumu kuwa maji ya sehemu ya chini yana chumvi lakini saa hii tunajua ya kuwa kuna tecnolojia za kuweza kutoa chumvi kwenye maji. Hivi sasa afadhali maji ya chumvi kuliko kukosa maji kabisa. Kitu kingine wanachosingizia, wanasema pesa nyingi inatumiwa kwa maji ya pipe .
On a point of order. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Hon. Asman Kamama what is the point of order?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, with all due respect to my good friend Hon. Zuleika, she is misleading the House by insinuating that ODM is the only party that fought for devolution. I want to remind her that the nusu mukate Government is the one that fought for devolution, that is, both ODM and our parties in the Government of Kibaki and Raila. Is she in order to mislead the House that it is only ODM which fought for devolution?
Let her finish.
Shukrani Mheshimiwa Naibu Spika wa Muda. Nafikiri sikosei kwa sababu kama Mheshimiwa angekuwa anaelewa Kiswahili vizuri angejua kuwa nimesema chama cha ODM na wala si chama cha ODM pekee ndicho kilitetea ugatuzi. Tulikuwa katika msitari wa mbele katika kutetea ugatuzi. Naomba pia niongezee dakika moja kwa sababu nimekatizwa na haya mambo ni muhimu
Tushakuongeza na ndio hiyo unaimaliza.
Asante sana. Jambo lingine ni kwamba kaunti wamesema watachimba yale madimbwi ya maji lakini mpaka sasa kuna madimbwi mengi kama huko Kaunti ya Kwale ambayo hayajachimbwa. Unajua mchanga huo unarudi ndani na hawajakuja kuutoa katika miaka minne na wala hawajachimba lile dimbwi likawa linaweza kubeba maji mengi kusaidia watu. Jambo lingine, nataka kutumia hii nafasi kuwaeleza wananchi kuwa huu ndio wakati wa kujua kiongozi anayekujali, maanake hakuna kiongozi mzuri ambaye atakubali watu wake wafe, rasilmali zao zife ama ziharibike na watu waishi kwa dhiki kama hiyo ya kuwa hakuna chakula na hivi sasa pia hakuna maji ya kunywa. Nataka kuomba Serikali kuu na ile ya kaunti kama wamekuwa wamezembea kazini---
Very well, Members I think there is tremendous interest in this matter and we have limited time. I will therefore plead with Members that we shorten our deliberations and delivery on this so that as many Members as possible have their voice on it. The next person on my list is Hon. Namwamba .
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, it is normal to have natural phenomena like droughts and floods. This is not surprising but what is annoying is our perennial unpreparedness that any time we face situations like this we are caught classically pants down, as it were. Five years ago, I chaired a committee that was styled as a Parliamentary Select Committee on Cost of Living and we investigated a wide array of issues including just how prepared this country is in dealing with natural phenomena like droughts and shortages and also how we share our resources from areas of plenty to areas of need . Also how we equalise or share out resources from areas of plenty to areas of need. At that time, there was biting drought and famine in Turkana at a time when milk producers in Bomet, South Rift and other parts of the country were spilling their milk to the ground because they did not have a market for it. The Government of that day had absolutely no mechanism, framework or arrangement of how to transport or share the plentiful milk in the South Rift to the starving people of Turkana.
The situation is exactly the same today and therefore, for a country that prides itself to have already entered the realm of a middle income economy to still be talking about the nuts and bolts of preparedness and of spreading around natural resources which are plenty within our borders, it is really an absolute shame. This is happening at a time when we should be enjoying The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
the fruits of devolution. Actually, we should be wearing sack clothes and pouring ashes on our heads in absolute shame.
I also want to urge this House to be balanced in the manner in which we spread responsibility around. It is important that we hold the national Government to account. Corruption is corruption whether it is done by national Government or county governments. We should also spread that responsibility to county governments. They now have great responsibility over key resources like water supply, yet anytime we hold Government responsible for such issues, we tend to excuse county governments.
This is a time when we must really come hard on county governments. We are talking about the County Government of Kwale or Taita Taveta for instance. I would have loved to hear the Member for Mwatate, my brother Mwadime telling us exactly what Governor Mruttu’s Government in Taita Taveta has done to ameliorate the suffering of the people of Taita Taveta. Yes, hold the National Government to account but in equal measure, hold county governments to account for the services that have been placed in their hands especially considering that county governments declared war to have these services devolved to them speedily without any delay.
So, accountability should be both at the national and county levels and ultimately, Hon. colleagues, this should be the last time we sit here to talk about issues of preparedness. We must be better prepared to handle a disaster such as this. I want, to send a message of goodwill to all the 14 counties that are affected. As Member for Bundalangi our constituency has suffered perhaps more than any other from the scourge of floods, but we have not seen floods in Budalangi for seven years now. This is because of better outreach, action and preparedness. If we could fix floods in Budalangi, we can fix drought and suffering in other parts of this country.
I support, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Good delivery, Hon. Ababu. We shall now have Hon. Korere Paulata.
Shukrani Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda. Natoa sauti yangu kuchangia Hoja iliyo mbele yetu. Ni wazi na imedhihirika kwamba hili baa la njaa limekumba maeneo mengi Kenya nzima. Natoka Laikipia na hali ni hiyo hiyo ya dukuduku na kumekuwa na tahadhari ya binadamu kupoteza maisha na mifugo yao kupitia baa la njaa ambalo limeenea.
Yafaa ieleweke kwamba tulipopitisha Katiba na kupigia kura ugatuzi, ilikuwa kwa sababu wananchi wapate huduma za karibu. Inasikitisha kwamba huduma ya karibu ambayo wananchi wa majimbo mengi wameweza kupata ni kule kuona magari ya kifahari na makubwa makubwa ambayo mara mingi hupita na kuwachia vumbi wasijue wanakotoka ama wanapokwenda. Laikipia inajulikana kwa umaarufu wake wa kufuga mifugo wa hali ya juu, haswa ng’ombe wa nyama. Pia, tumejulikana kwa kuhifadhi nyasi na maneno yetu mengine. Imekuwa ni kitu cha kusikitisha kwamba sisi tumehifadhi nyasi zetu kupitia conservancies ili tupeleke mifugo wetu pale wakati wa njaa. Lakini, hali kule imekuwa ni mwenye nguvu mpishe. Kumekuwa na tatizo kubwa ambapo jirani wetu kutoka anakotoka mamangu hapa na wengine kutoka Isiolo ni kutumia nguvu kutupokonya zile rasilimali tumeweza kutunza.
Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda, nalilia Wizara ya Usalama ilinde usalama wa watu wa Laikipia. Hii ni kwa sababu kumekuwa na mzozo mkubwa sana wa wafugaji kung’ang’ania rasilimali. Nataka ieleweke kwamba iwapo hautatunza rasilimali zako, hizo rasilimali hazitakutunza. Kwa hivyo, ni kitu cha kusikitisha sana kwamba ninapozungumza katika Bunge hili leo, wawili wa watu kutoka eneo Bunge langu wanazikwa leo hii kwa sababu ya kupigwa risasi na The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
wafugaji wanaotoka kaunti jirani kwa sababu ya kule kutaka kulisha mifugo wao kwa lazima katika maeneno ambayo sisi wenyewe tumehifadhi. Tunapoendelea ni kwamba kaunti jirani pia waketi chini na kujaribu vile watatatua tatizo hili la baa la njaa. Pia, naomba na kusema kwa unyenyekevu kwamba Serikali kuu iangazie maeneo kama Samburu, Laikipia, Isiolo na yale mengine yamekumbwa na hili baa la njaa. Ninapozungumza, kuna shule nyingi ambazo huenda zikafungwa kwa sababu ya watoto kukosa kulipa karo. Kama hawalipi karo, hawatapata lishe. Jinsi tunavyojua, baadhi ya wale wafugaji wanategemea soko la wanyama ili kuuza wanyama wao wakimu mahitaji yao ya maisha kama kulipa karo na kununua chakula. Hivi sasa, mifugo hao wamedhoofika sana na hamna soko la kuuza hawa mifugo. Pia tunaomba Kenya Meat Commission (KMC) wanunue hawa mifugo kwa ile inajulikana kama
ili wasiangamie bure bilashi. Nashukuru, Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda.
Members, I had requested that we limit so that we give others a chance because of the interest we have. Hon. Makali, let us try to do two minutes please.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I will strictly spend one minute and a half. I must thank Hon. Nooru for this Adjournment Motion. He left out Kitui County. It is one of the areas which are seriously affected. This has been routine every year. We have been suffering from drought year in, year out. This country has very clear strategies on how to mitigate this problem. Let us implement the strategies. Agriculture is devolved. Issues of water are devolved. Let county governments play their role and the national Government plays its role. In that case, we will move this country to the next level. Thank you very much, I support.
Members, I see everybody is interested. I will try as much as possible, if agreed, to move as swiftly as possible. Hon. Waititu.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. While I agree with Hon. Nooru on food security, we have gone round as the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives. We have gone to Kitale, Coast and elsewhere in this country. Recently, we went to Eldoret and we were assured that there is enough maize in this country. When I hear people blaming the national Government while we know very well that agriculture is devolved, I have seen 47 Governors in this country also talking about the national Government. Some are even saying it here. Some Members are referring to the President and the Cabinet Secretaries (CSs). We are Members of Parliament and every Member has the National Government Constituencies Development Fund (NG-CDF). We should be thinking of feeding our people first. In my constituency, there is a place called Athi where people are also suffering from hunger. If we can have that emergency fund and we as Members of Parliament agree, once a situation like this occurs, we can use it to feed our people. It is wrong for people to continuously talk of the national Government solving the hunger problem while we know very well that the counties can do that. We have 47 counties and there is the Equalisation Fund for counties that are affected. Where has that money gone to? It is high time we took everybody on board. Let everybody be accountable so that we know where we are headed to. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
I went round with my Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives making inquiries about maize in this country. We went to Galana- Kulalu and found that the project has maize. That maize should feed people who are suffering from hunger. It is not the work of the President. It is the work of the Member of the National Assembly because this is a purely presidential system of Government. It is not like in the previous Parliaments.
Very well. Let us have Hon. Ibrahim Saney.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I want to briefly say that drought as a disaster is common all over the world. In Kenya it has been cyclical and predictable but it is killing our people. The problem is lack of planning, and lack of preparedness in both tiers of Government. We always point fingers to lack of rainfall. Even it rains on an average basis, we end up having an artificial drought created by other reasons. I believe what we are going through right now is as a result of the national Government and the county governments not factoring in good budgets to ensure that we mitigate drought. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, 70 per cent of Kenya is made up of ASALs. It is regrettable that both the county government and national Government do not factor aspects of pastoral livelihoods even with that kind of landmass. What we go through are ad-hoc engagements and reactions and calling on the President to declare drought as a national disaster. That will not help pastoralists. What is the national Government and the county governments doing to mitigate drought? As we speak, pastoralists are willing to sell their livestock. Where will they offload their stock? There are no markets. Previously, we used to complain that pastoralists are keeping large herds of livestock for prestige. That no longer holds. Pastoralists are willing to sell their livestock, but there are no markets. The Kenya Meat Commission (KMC), the only parastatal that was to offer market is not functioning. We are trying to put up more abattoirs which are infrastructure driven development, but there is no software. Are we looking at the entire supply chain? We must be very focused in the gazettement of pasture areas. We are creating settlement day in, day out without regard to our livelihood. Why can we not gazette pasture land the way we are seriously gazetting forests?
Let us Hon. Abdulaziz.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this Motion. It is very disturbing that since Independence, we are still fighting hunger, diseases and illiteracy. As the founding father of this country coined it, we have three enemies; hunger, disease and illiteracy. 50 years down the line, we are still fighting the “three animals”. Probably we have improved in illiteracy but hunger and diseases are still biting this country. I think this is something which as Kenyans, we must rise up and try to solve. Roughly 80 per cent of this country’s land mass is ASALs.
Hon. Farah, Hon. Birdi wants to inform you.
I do not need the information.
On a point of information, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. You do not need the information but I still want to give it to you. The absorption rate by counties has been given and for a place like Taita Taveta it is 70 per cent. There is a list of the absorption rate by counties which has been done by the Kenya Economic Report (KER) forum. All I want to The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
inform this House is that these problems have already been stated in the Report and what we need to tackle are things like the Bills which have not been enacted by most counties.
I think there is a whole document that can be referred to. Hon. Farah, I want you to finish in one minute because I would also like to give Hon. Leshoomo one minute.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I did not want that information. Anyway, it is now 50 years down the line and Kenyans are still talking about disaster unpreparedness, hunger and diseases. This is very unfortunate. One thing I want to assure Members of this House is that Kenya is not a food insecure country. We lack proper planning and management of issues in this county.
Kenya is a rich country and it has all it takes to feed its people and even livestock. We have rivers from the highlands and why should Kenyans die? That is lack of proper planning and management. How long shall we give fish to the people? We need to give them the fishing equipment and not to talk about feeding people with maize year in, year out.
Your time is over. Hon. Leshoomo, one minute.
Asante sana, Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda kwa kunipatia nafasi hii ili nichangie Hoja hii. Nashukuru Mhe. Nooru na hata mimi ni mmoja wa wanakamati wake. Kwa kweli kuna mambo ambayo tunashindwa kuelewa kwa sababu tunayazungumzia kila mwaka. Haya mambo yanahusu njaa, maji na wafugaji. Ningependa kusema kwamba ile shida tuko nayo kubwa sana kwenye kaunti zetu ni kuhusu wafugaji. Mambo ya njaa na kukosa maji yamezidi na hata shida kubwa ni kwamba wanyama wa pori wanang’ang’ania hayo maji kidogo na wananchi.
Katika Kaunti yangu ya Samburu tumepoteza watu kadhaa kwa sababu ya ndovu ambao wanang’ang’ania maji na tumeshindwa kutatua hilo jambo. Hii ni kwa sababu kaunti zimepewa pesa na ukiangalia sehemu zingine haziangalii shida za watu wao. Katika Samburu Kaunti, miaka nenda miaka rudi, shida ni njaa na maji. Saa hii watoto wamefunga shule mapema kwa sababu ya maji. Kama leo nimejitolea kuwachotea wafugaji maji, ningependa kuuliza: Shida iko wapi kwa sababu kaunti ziko na pesa? Pia tunaomba Serikali yetu kuu iweze kuangalia hizo pesa ambazo zinatumwa kwa kaunti zinatumika kwa njia gani.
Hon. Abdinoor, one minute.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me a chance to contribute to this Motion. I really want to thank and appreciate Hon. Adan Nooru for bringing it. It is very timely. There is a big drought in our country. It is a severe drought in most of the ASAL areas.
The immediate things we or the Government need to do are intervention programmes: water trucking in some parts of those counties, distribution of foodstuffs and expand the issue of Hunger Safety Net Programme (HSNP) in our country so that they can bring in families which cannot afford their daily lives and give them the Kshs2,000 every month so that they can assist themselves. The final issue I really wanted to raise is the issue of destocking programmes for livestock in our country. The Kenya Meat Commission (KMC) should be given money by this House so that they can do off-take programmes. They can buy those animals at the current situation before it deteriorates. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
The issue is that we must increase our water harvesting capacity as a country for us to prepare for drought. As a country, we must deal with drought before it turns to disaster. If we do not manage and mitigate it, it will be disastrous in our country. It will finish us. With those remarks, I support. Thank you.
Hon. Members, the time being 6.35 p.m., this House stands adjourned until Tuesday, 25th October 2016 at 2.30 p.m.
The House rose at 6.35 p.m.
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