(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Hon. Senators, according to the Order Paper today, we are supposed to be getting a Statement from the Leader of Majority. Where is he?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir---
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Are you the Leader of Majority?
I want to request that I undertake to inform him that you are looking for him.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well, you are a nice citizen. So, you can take five minutes.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. This is the one Statement that never misses and it is the one that gives direction to this House on what we should anticipate for the coming week. The person who is not here is none other than the Leader of Majority. You saw that at the beginning of the week, we complained about the absence of the entire Government side in the Senate. Today, the entire Government side is only represented by one Member and the Leader of Majority is not there. Is the Government still committed---
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. I think you need a second pair of spectacles to be able to count well. Count. How many are they?
They have just walked in. Thank you for the correction. But could we be told if the Jubilee Government has now decided not to factor the legislature in discharging its functions of running the affairs of the Republic of Kenya? This is very serious. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Who do you want to tell you that?
None other than the Leader of Majority but since he is not there, I do not know what to do. You could compel him, if he comes at a later time, to tell us.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The current speaker says that the Jubilee Government had only one Member. He only counted one person.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): We say “the current Member” and not “the current speaker”.
The current Member on the Floor said that he only saw one Jubilee Member, why is he not counting the other Members?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order. I have already ruled on that. Any information about the whereabouts of the Majority Leader? I give him the benefit of doubt. We can wait for a few more minutes because this is an important communication. I will address it again later. Chairperson, Standing Committee of Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries!
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not know whether the Senator who sought this Statement is here.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Who is the Senator?
It is Sen. Kittony.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): The Order Paper is usually released to you many hours before the sitting. I believe every Member either through their laptops or printed copy have been able to see the Order Paper in the last about 12 hours. The question so sought belongs to this House. I find compelled not to consider the absence of the Member in view of the current situation of the House. I would rule that you continue.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. MEASURES TO ADDRESS CHALLENGES FACED BY FARMERS IN THEIR ENGAGEMENTS WITH THE NCPB
This Statement is a response to a request by Sen. Kittony on transformation of National Cereals and Produce Board (NCPB) and specifically the request was on three items namely:- (i) an explanation as to the measures that are being taken to address the systemic challenges within NCPB; (ii) an explanation on the measures being taken to re-engineer and transform NCPB operations both as a supplier of last resort and a custodian of the country’s strategic grain reserve; (iii) an explanation on the measures being taken to cushion farmers from adverse suffering from erratic market forces. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the mandate of NCPB is:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. Any interventions?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the NCPB was established not only to cushion the farmers from the erratic market but also to ensure that farmers get their farm input whenever they need them and at the right time. It is quite clear that NCPB as it is now has failed in its responsibility because these are its core responsibilities. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, adding to what Sen. Khaniri has asked, I do not know whether the Chair is aware that NCPB was supposed to have assisted farmers in bringing fertilizers but ended up bringing a different brand of fertilizer that if you go to Trans Nzoia, parts of West Pokot and Uasin Gishu, maize is not growing because some strange brand of fertilizer was brought. It is called 2323 and 1717. They also declared what we normally use as unfit for the soil. I want to know whether the Committee is aware. I am a farmer and I am completely affected.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You have executed your question adequately.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, under the new Constitution, agriculture is devolved to the county governments. Could the Chairman indicate to us what structural amendments the Government is undertaking in the NCPB so as to make it to accord with the new Constitution? Finally, the Government has been presiding over serious corruption within NCPB. Could the Vice Chairman tell us what the Government is doing to rid NCPB of corruption?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You can take those four.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like to respond on the issues. First, I wish to cede that indeed the Ministry concerned has adequately planned to ensure that the services provided by NCPB are effectively executed. That is why there are those restructuring programmes going on. As you may realize, there was an improvement this season because fertilizer was available for farmers in good time. It may not have been adequate but at least, I can confirm that it came in good time. Regarding the issue of stores which are not adequate, I think this is a genuine concern and I agree that stores should be in every county or sub-county not necessarily for production but even for storage in maize consumption areas so that we avoid a situation where in handling the maize is contaminated or delayed in reaching the consumers. With devolution, I believe there is an opportunity now for the counties because agriculture is a function of the counties. They also need to start putting up stores. I am aware some counties have already put in place programmes or plans to put up grain storage facilities in their counties in addition to the one held by NCPB. I believe the national Government will support the counties accordingly as I had earlier mentioned. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is it, Sen. Khaniri?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am not satisfied that the Vice Chair has answered my question. My question was very clear” “What steps are being taken to ensure that this NCPB stores are established at least in each and every sub-county of the agricultural depended counties?” He just said that he agrees with me that the stores are sparsely distributed but he has not told us the concrete steps that they are taking to ensure that these stores are established in areas that I mentioned.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Let us have that challenge answered first.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I said that agricultural issues are now devolved to the county level. It is up to each county to establish such facilities within their areas of jurisdiction. I said that I, as the Vice Chairman of the Committee, agree that we need more storage facilities in all the counties.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Vice Chairman has said that provision was given for fertilizer to be supplied by NCPB. That is not the true position. There was a decree that said we should not use Diammonium Phosphate (DAP) even on the land that we had already tested soil. I had tested my soil but could not access DAP. My soil was saying that we use DAP. We ended up using what he is telling us and the produce that has come is so contrary to what we The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What do you mean by a decree? Was this a presidential written order? Our Constitution does not allow roadside statements. Who gave that decree?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, when we went to stores to buy fertilizer, we were told that DAP had been declared unfit for use. We were told that directive had come from the top. We want to know whether it came from the Minister, the President or who. That is exactly what happened. We went looking for it but could not find it.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You have changed the statement because you had said there was a decree. Now, you want to know who had given the decree. Are you aware of any decree?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am not aware of any decree. The Ministry has not issued a directive asking farmers to purchase fertilizers other than DAP. The DAP had been procured by the Government and issued in large quantities. However, I must admit that there has been debate as to the appropriateness of DAP in view of its acidified character. It is not true that DAP was not availed. I am at least aware that in the North Rift, it was available. However, there were certain campaigns, due to acidity, that farmers should consider using other fertilizers as well. However, no directive or instruction was issued by the Ministry concerned.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I promise to look for that directive. It does not matter who gave it. However, it is there.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Lonyangapuo. The Standing Orders give you 24 hours to substantiate an allegation. If you can produce it in the next sitting day, Tuesday, I will accept. However, if you postpone it further, then that means that you will not give any statement to this House. You may need to raise another question to that effect. Therefore, I am bound by the Standing Orders of this House.
I will get it by Tuesday.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I do not think we will have further interrogation on this Statement. The Senate Majority Leader has informed me that he has some urgent issues to attend to. However, he also has to be reprimanded because he skipped Order Nos.5, 7 and we have to work in reverse. Could you apologise and table your Paper so that we prosecute Order No.5?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Indeed, if the Senate Majority Leader has something urgent, we would then be anxiously waiting to listen to it. However, if the urgent matter he has is that he wants to seek leave so that he goes to attend to matters outside---
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Khalwale. It is at my discretion to make a decision. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am not challenging you but building my point of order.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You are doing it the wrong way. Could you redo it?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have no problem listening to the Senate Majority Leader immediately. We thank you for allowing him. Given that not him nor his assistant were in the House when we started and have repeatedly not been in the House when business is being transacted, what sanctions is the Chair considering against the office of the Senate Majority Leader because this is in contempt of the transactions of the business of the House?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Khalwale, being a highly mannered physician in this country, with an IQ above average, I believe you were listening when I demanded that the Senate Majority Leader apologises to this House. That is the punishment I am giving him for now unless he messes further.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I take this opportunity to apologtise undeservedly to the Chair and to the House for not having been here at the time when I should to table the Paper I intended to table. I apologise for that. I always take the responsibility of the Office of the Senate Majority Leader to this House as the first priority. I just want to apologise. I am greatly humbled that you have used your discretion to allow me. Thank you for not visiting further penal sanctions against me as was demanded by the Senator for Kakamega. BUSINESS FOR THE WEEK COMMENCING TUESDAY, 10TH JUNE, 2014 Having apologized, I beg to lay a statement of the business for the week commencing 10th June, 2014 pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.45 of the Senate on the Table of this House.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Read it before you lay it on the Table,
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise under Standing Order No.45 to read the statement concerning the business of the Senate for the week commencing 10th June, 2014. Hon. Senators, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.45, this will be the business of the coming week. Tuesday, 10th June, 2014, the Rules and Business Committee (RBC) will meet at 12 noon to schedule the business of the Senate for the week commencing 10th June, 2014. The Senate will The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We would appreciate if the Senate Majority Leader can brief us on the County Governments (Amendment) Bill. This is a vote that has been under negotiation for over two months now. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage: Order, hon. Senator. I do not think this is the appropriate time for that. If you wanted that, then you should have sought a statement. You could still do that after the reading of the statement and demand the Senate Majority Leader to produce the statement. For now, you are completely out of order. Where is the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations? ACTIVITIES OF MR. ERICK DEAN PRINCE IN THE COUNTRY
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I wish to respond to a question asked by Sen. Khalwale on the presence of Erick Dean Prince, an American mogul and a former Navy officer in the US. The question is whether I was aware of his presence and his activities/transactions in Kenya. 1. The answer is that the Electronic Border Management System indicates that Mr. Erick Dean Prince is currently not within the territory of Kenya. The system further indicates that the person arrived in Kenya on 8th January, 2014 aboard Etihad Airlines Flight No.641 from Abu Dhabi, holding an American passport and departed from Jomo Kenyatta International Airport on 9th January, 2014 to London aboard British Airways Flight No.064, using the same passport. He does not hold a work permit. Therefore, his activities as far as matters of immigration are concerned cannot be ascertained. (b) With regard to whether the national Government knew that he had acquired Kijipwa Aviation in Kilifi and the circumstances surrounding such acquisition and whether due diligence was carried out by the national Government before acquisition, the answer to this is that on 18th March, 2014, the Kenya Civil Aviation Authority received a copy of a form 203(A) from Kijipwa Aviation Limited notifying of change of Directors and Secretaries as follows. With effect from 19th November, 2013, Alan Cullinan Herd and Simon Nicholas Herd resigned as Directors of the Company and Uldarico Ard peregrine Jnr. (American) and Dorian Moshe Barak (Israel) were appointed as directors with effect from the same date. With effect from 19th November, 2013, Lima Registrars resigned as Company Secretary and Virginia Ndunge of Kaplan and Stratton Advocates was appointed as Company Secretary. On March, 2014, the applicant submitted CR12 (confirmation from Registrar of companies on both directorship and shareholding indicating new names of the shareholders and directors of the company with their particulars. The Government is aware of the importance of security in the aviation industry and has implemented various security measures with regard to aviation security. The other question was whether the national Government knows the history and track record of the said Dean Prince and his notorious undertakings at the Blackwater Worldwide Company especially but not limited to the activities in Iraq and Afghanistan. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Mr. Erick Dean Prince, the American mogul I talked about in this question is a very notorious character to the extent that even the Congress of the United States of America (USA) voted that he should not be allowed to do any business whatsoever with the Government of the USA. This person has come into this country claiming that he is going to provide security in view of the emerging oil industry in this country. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as a build up, allow me to conclude by telling the House that the same man went into Iraq and Afghanistan and ended up taking there a squad that killed women and children, in the name of providing security.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Khalwale, if I heard the Chairman correctly, his first segment was that Mr. Mogul is nowhere within the boundaries of this country. Do you doubt that?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am now coming to the questions. Whereas I would have no reason to doubt that aspect of his answer, but the question is: At every immigration desk, anywhere in the world, a subject upon arrival completes a form, where he states what activities he intends to participate in the host country. So, in this case, even if Mr. Erik Dean Prince arrived in Kenya on those dates, what does the immigration form that he completed show pertaining to the activities that he had come to perform in this country? Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, secondly, the Chairman has told us that the Government was notified of the change of name of directors at Kijipwa Aviation. Could he confirm if these two are the only directors of Kijipwa? If they are not, who are the other directors, because this is the entry point of Mr. Erik Dean Prince? Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, lastly, in the last part of his answer, the Chairman told us that 51 per cent of the shareholding of this company is by a Kenyan citizen and the balance of 49 per cent is held by a company which was incorporated in Bermuda. In view of the seriousness of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, regarding the issue of the Americans declaring that Mr. Prince cannot do business in America that has nothing to do with us in Kenya, because we have never done business with him. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, secondly, the question that has been raised by Sen. Khalwale, regarding who the 49 shareholders are, is very valid. I am prepared to pursue the issue and bring the names to the House in the next two weeks, because I will be travelling out of the country. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, regarding the forms filled at the immigration desk, I do not think that those forms really give a lot of details. Nowadays even Kenyans arriving from abroad are not required to fill those forms.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Mr. Chairman, I may not agree with you on the latter. Foreigners fill details about what sort of business that they have to do on entry into this country, unless you, as the Chair, and your current Cabinet Secretary have interfered with that. I think that you must bring to our attention what business was signed on that paper. If it is lost, you can say that it is not there, but I think that it is a valid concern. Maybe you will go through the HANSARD and see the other very relevant questions that Sen. Khalwale had raised, and include them in your answer. I will allow you two weeks to bring a complete Statement. For now, I will defer the issue to two weeks.
Agreed, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I am not trying to argue with you, but I think that I have been misquoted. I did not say that they do not fill the forms. I said that the forms that they fill might not have a lot of information. Somebody could fill in the forms and indicate that he is a tourist. But I will ask them to find out and give us the answer as directed.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to pursue the matter after two weeks. But I think that equally important, it should occur to the Chairman that for an American to come into Kenya, they acquire a Visa. A visa asks for very many details. Could he, please, also come with a copy of the forms that were filled when applying for the visa, so that we can see what business that this man was coming to do? He jetted in and then went out again. That simply means that he was coming to append his signature, as I expressed earlier on.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we will try to do it.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. You have another Statement. Continue! The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is supplementary information on the delay in issuance of birth certificates in Meru County. Mr. Temporary Spekaer, Sir, the Government is planning to decentralize and provide birth registration services as close to the people as possible. As explained in the previous Statement, from the year 2009, the Civil Registration Department worked closely with schools in the school-based registration programme, and was able to issue certificates to the Kenya National Examination Council candidates without them visiting the registration office. In order for this arrangement to work, the department hired temporary casual workers to fast-track office operations work, while the schools incurred transportation costs to and from the registration offices, to collect birth certificates for their respective people. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, similarly, the department is willing to issue certificates to newly born children before they leave hospital, so that their parents do not have to travel to the registration office. However, as stated in our previous Statement, such an arrangement will require additional resources to set up operational offices and hire more staff in each hospital with maternity wards. It is, however, worth noting that more births occur at home than in health facilities. Emphasis should have, therefore, been laid on ensuring that all births occurring at home are duly and promptly registered. As we had proposed earlier, the decentralization of registration services to the sub-counties will help to improve birth registration coverage and service delivery to citizens. The department on its part is prepared to embark on the process of decentralization to sub-counties and, indeed, hospitals as soon as the National Treasury enhances the resources allocated. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Chairman of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations for that answer. Indeed, we appreciate the commitment by the Government to issue birth certificates immediately a child is born at the hospital level. But the reason that they need additional resources for them to issue certificates is a strange one. This is because marriage certificates are issued on the wedding day by the priest, who is not paid by the Government. Why can the doctor who delivers the baby not also be required to sign birth certificate as an agent of the Attorney General or Registrar General, without any additional resources? Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, regarding the second issue of registration of those not born in hospitals being decentralized to the sub-county level, I think that we could further decentralize it, because the Constitution requires decentralization to go to the lowest level possible. We now have officers at the ward level known as ward administrators. We also have the Deputy County Commissioners. Why can we not decentralize this service to the ward level, because those officers are there? Indeed, having ceded most of the powers to the devolved system, most of the Government officers at the ward and sub-county level are idle. Why do we need additional The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is a very critical issue in most of the counties, because there are many sub-counties where the birth certificates are not available. In this day and age when all the schools demand for birth certificates, this issue becomes very critical. I do not know how the Government comes up with a policy when it does not even have the resources in place. But I would appreciate if the Chairman could indicate when this decentralization to the sub-counties actually will take place. When do we expect all the sub- counties in the country to start issuing birth certificates?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, my question is closely related to that of Sen. Billow. Many times our Government has not had clear plans, whether it is immediate or long-term. The reasons from the Chairman are as good as the traditional ones which say “when funds will be available or when possible.” Could he, honestly, tell us if there are immediate plans to do this, now and even for the future? The Government should have a strategic plan.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we all know that there is a document that is normally issued in hospitals immediately after babies are born, known as birth notification. If they can issue a birth notification, why can they not issue a birth certificate at that particular time? Probably, it is another way of collecting funds, but it is very possible.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the chiefs for quite sometime have been the registration officers. They have been registering births for a long time, but the issue of the document itself being released is the problem. Why can we not allow the chief to process everything and only submit data to the headquarters? In this digital age, why can we not even do it electronically? We can capture the data and submit it to the headquarters immediately.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I think that the question had already been asked by Sen. Chelule.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I quite agree with Sen. Kiraitu that there is need really to look into this issue further and see how best we can fast-track the issuance of birth certificates. But we cannot compare marriages with births, because the births are so many compared to marriages. We could have only five or so marriages in a week. But I do agree, as Sen. Ndiema has observed, that the Government can come up with a better method of issuing birth certificates. Even in the issuance of identity cards, the delay is caused because all the forms are filled and pictures taken in the registration centres, but they have to be sent to Nairobi, and it takes a very long time for them to go back. I will take up the suggestions which have been made by the Senators with the relevant authorities. The chiefs should be given registration forms together with the certificates, so that they can issue them whenever parents register their children. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, regarding the question raised by Sen. Billow and Sen. Abdirahman on decentralization, it is really very difficult to give a timetable. As you have rightly The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. You have heard what the Chairman has said. It means that the answer that we were given is actually not helpful. This is because what he said is that funds are not available. With that kind of an open-ended engagement, it means that really the request that we are making that since these documents are now compulsory and required for any child to go to school or do an exam and because of the security situation--- I think that it is not a matter of Parliament. The Government and the relevant Ministry must know how to prioritize its requests. I think that we need a better answer that says: “We will by this month, year or date.” We should not leave it open, because the lack of this document is really causing a lot of anxiety in the country.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Billow, you are the Chair of the Budget Committee. The Chairman has given what he thinks he can. There are no funds. I would have expected you to say: “I have heard the Chairman’s concerns. As the Chair of the Budget Committee, I will make sure that the funds are available.” Anyhow, it is a legitimate concern. Like Sen. Abdirahman said, these open-ended answers of “when funds are available” have become a nasty song in the Senators’ ears. Can you be a little bit explicit on your definition of the time limit?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I think that decentralization can be done without involving a lot of costs. As I suggested, the chiefs could be allowed to register and issue birth certificates. They are always there and have offices. I am going to communicate that suggestion and it will be considered but I cannot give a timeline that it will be done today or tomorrow, since resources are required.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Any further interrogation? Sen. Billow!
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, my apologies, but I think the Chairperson can do better than that because if he accepts what the Ministry says; when funds are available, we cannot go far. If the Government wants to get money, they can. Last week, we were able to confirm that the Government had to pay some money to Anglo Leasing and the Government got Kshs1.4 billion. This week they paid Kshs1.2 billion on the syndicated loans because the Government knows how to re-allocate money. So, I think the Government Printer does print the certificates. It is a question of getting the staffing and the other issues related to the staffing. The Government has actually indicated that they want to lay off thousands of people who are in the Public Service when we need them in those kinds of departments. Could the Cabinet Secretary be in touch with the team at the Ministry so that he can say: In the next financial year, because we are now doing the budget.” If he does not get an answer now, it means that it will be considered again in the 2015/2016 Financial Year. Could he undertake that by July in the next Financial Year, that decision to decentralize this service to sub-counties will actually be effected? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage: The Chairperson, are you able to do that?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am not able. I think Sen. Billow is contradicting himself. The Anglo Leasing money was paid because of a shortfall in the Budget to cover it and, therefore, the Government does not have money---
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! Do not open a Pandora’s Box.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We cannot allow this to go on.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Please, desist from pursuing that line.
Okay, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I cannot give a guarantee but I will communicate and see how best this can be addressed.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): These are matters of policy and the powers of this House. The question is: Can we give an order to the Cabinet Secretary to implement what we want? It is very clear what this House wants. Communicate to the Cabinet Secretary that this is what the Senate wants instead of going to request him. I think maybe that might be a better way of doing it. But I think you are very legitimate in your answer that there is nothing you can do at this time. Any other interrogation? Next Order!
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Who was on the Floor? Sen. Elachi was on the Floor, but apparently, she seems to have finished.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to add my voice to this very important Motion that is not new here. I remember in one of the sessions, we had passed a similar Motion besides this that was passed in November, 2004 in the National Assembly then. Honestly, this is a reality and it is not something we can shy away from bringing it out because school heads keep on withholding certificates of very poor children, either orphaned or generally from poor backgrounds. I attribute this to the fact that the Ministry of Education has failed to give proper policy guidelines. As much as the National Examinations Council Act explicitly puts it that no school principal can withhold a school certificate, heads of schools have time and again kept on withholding these certificates. Worse of, of late, the fact that in the Ministry of Education, the Teachers Service Commission (TSC) has started managing the teacher management portfolio.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Billow. I cannot allow two Senators to be on their feet.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The fact that the TSC has taken over the teacher management portfolio and the fact that the Ministry of Education headquarters has been left to handle issues that relate to purely administration, there seems to be a serious gap between the county directors of education and those who have been left in charge of the schools or the staffing officers at the county level. You may find that there is very little relationship between these people. Students are forced to come and talk to the County Director of Education, they are then sent back to the teacher staffing officers.
Madam Temporary Speaker, it is like the problem remains unresolved and it is not something we can keep on agreeing to let it be. The truth of the matter is that most of these children who failed to get their certificates are not able to beat the deadlines for recruitment The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker. I would also like to thank Sen. Musila for bringing this Motion. I am sure in his earlier life as a Provincial Commissioner; he must have met so many miserable cases of parents pleading with him to intervene in one school or the other with their children not being given certificates after they have completed their schooling. What surprises me is that the law is very clear and I am sure all of you in this House must have seen the law. The KNEC legal regime is the Act establishing it where the functions of the Council are, among other things, to award certificates and diplomas to candidates in such examinations, such certificates or diplomas shall not be withheld from the candidate by any person or institution. How then does a head of an institution go ahead to withhold a certificate when the body that examines has the law establishing it stating very clearly that the end result of sitting an examination is to get a certificate and whatever the condition, those certificates must be given to the students? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. G.G. Kariuki.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I do not wish to contribute to this Motion, but my friend, Sen. Musila tried from the 8th, 9th or 10th Parliament; and we passed the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. We followed closely or let me just say that I followed closely the statements from the honorable Senator, and I have two issues to pick up from him. One is the fact that funding in CDF has limits. If he remembers very well – maybe he has not served as a Member of Parliament (MP) when the CDF was established – it has limitations. It has a small percentage for education matters. Two, the fact that he is trying to really shy away from speaking to the point and on this subject, I do not know whether he is trying to defend the Government. I am in a state of confusion on his contribution. Is the Senator in order to really avoid the subject matter in this Motion, which is dear to all of us and actually avoid explicitly expressing that there is an express legal authority for heads of schools to release these certificates? Can he speak to the point?
Sen. Abdirahman, what, according to you is out of order?
Madam Temporary Speaker, is he in order to actually not directly address the issues that the Motion addresses because we really want a solution to this problem?
Senator, I think that the Senator was still contributing and giving his opinion on the matter. I think he is really not out of order; he has not made his conclusion. I think he is in order to proceed. Proceed, Senator.
Maybe we could offer him some information then.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I do not understand what is agitating my friend because he just came in, took up the matter---
Sen. Abdirahman, you do not have the Floor yet. If you wish to given him information, then you should request appropriately.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I have not come in now--- He is standing.
Order, Senator! I think you are out of order because I had not even given you the Floor. But what is your point? Are you requesting that you want to give Sen. G.G. Kariuki additional information? For which then we would ask him and then he would respond.
This was not a statement that he was responding to; it is his contribution and I agree that he is entitled to his opinion. But where a Member is not explicitly addressing the question as it is, then I thought we had an opportunity to intervene when it is in terms of sharing with him information or not.
You have been heard, but I do not find him out of order. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I think I need to continue because I do not expect to be---
Madam Temporary Speaker, I do not expect to be told what to say and what not to say as long as I am still in order. Madam Temporary Speaker, I was just about to conclude my statement, but I want to repeat, with your permission, that this matter needs to be handled now in a more serious manner than we have been doing before because passing a resolution all the time is not enough. Maybe Sen. Musila should come up with a Bill to deal with this matter so that we can compel the entire system to go according to the wishes of the people of Kenya. Therefore, Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to support this Motion very strongly and hope that my friend, who has been a friend of mine for a very long time as my Provincial Commissioner; I respect him a lot and I wish him luck in this issue that we are discussing. But I appeal that he brings a Bill so that we can deal with the matter effectively.
Sen. Beth Mugo.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I also would like to support the Motion on the Floor and very strongly so. This Motion is very clear. I want to also remember that I was present in the other Parliament when the honorable Senator presented his Motion and we passed it unanimously, and it was not even the first time. This matter has been revisited again and again, and I believe the question here is the implementation. The law is very, very clear as we have seen it here. Section 10(1)(b) of the Kenya National Examinations Council Act says:- “award certificates or diplomas to candidates in such examinations; such certificates or diplomas, shall not be withheld from the candidate by any person or institution;” That includes the principals of schools for any reason. It cannot be because they need the money; they did not explain that in the Act so that they withhold the certificates. So, Madam Temporary Speaker, I think ours should be now to ask the Cabinet Secretary (CS) in charge of Education to ensure that this law is complied with because it is a law passed by the National Assembly or by Parliament. Just like we do not discuss any other law, I do not believe there is room for deviating or discussing that it is done this way or that way; we should just be demanding for implementation. I myself had association with the Minister of Education and I know that these are some of the issues that when an order comes from a law or a policy from law, there is no other excuse but to implement it. So, we should be asking in this Motion that the CS makes sure that all the certificates which withheld by school heads are released immediately. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I also rise to support this Motion and strongly so, just like my colleagues. I am one such person who has gone through life from education and from my background in a lot of hardship. I know what it means not only to struggle to have one’s school fees paid, but even to have those certificates released. Thus, I would speak from experience. Indeed when a young person has graduated from high school and is probably seeking greener pastures or employment in any section or sector of our country without much support, because as it has been said by most of my colleagues, actually this problem affects largely the most poor of the poor in our communities. So, going job hunting and probably to be attached without certificates or maybe even without a fallback position where you would go probably to a relative who would help you, it is an extremely traumatizing experience for our young people. So, I support this Motion. In the same breath, Madam Temporary Speaker, I would think that it is important then that we give this legislation the support and the legs it would need to be implementable, so that as has been said by the previous speakers, that indeed this piece of legislation was passed twice earlier in Parliament and we still have this problem; we need to ask ourselves: “Why do we have the problem persisting?” Madam Temporary Speaker, we know that primary education is free in our country. So, when students join high school, as many as would have passed the grade of admission join. In a class, for example, we have students who can afford to pay fees; we have some who would probably struggle to pay fees; we have some that are poor and probably others that are abjectly poor. And because there is no regulation or policy framework that would say that this person can pay school fees and this one cannot, then that, left open as it is, is bound to make this problem continue to exist because probably a head of an institution would find himself or herself in a The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. Liza Chelule.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I also rise to support this Motion. I really want to congratulate Sen. Musila for bringing this Motion to the Floor. I support this Motion because of two reasons; we all know that there is no candidate that can sit for examinations without paying the examination fees. To me, the fees cater for certificate issuance. The issue of certificates is not at any one time related to school fees. So, we would want to request the Ministry of Education to probably come up with a way of how they can collect their school fees, rather than linking the issuance of certificates to school fees. Madam Temporary Speaker, we all know how much the affected people have suffered. Some youth have turned out to be drunkards and some to be robbers simply because they cannot continue with their studies without the certificates. So, there is need for this; and the problem really is the enforcement. If this matter has been on the Floor and it has been passed at any one time and the enforcement is the problem, then I think it is the mandate of this House again to make sure that it is enforced. Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to support.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this very important Motion. I congratulate my colleague, Sen. Musila, for bringing this Motion and for doing a follow up on it. It is not every day that such a Motion is passed between the National Assembly and the Senate. He has taken it upon himself to follow up and to make sure that it comes before this hon. House so that we also contribute on it. This shows our lack of follow up on many other Motions that are passed regarding the lives of Kenyans but without proper implementation of the same. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Hon. Senators, there being no other Senator interested in making a contribution, I call upon the Mover to reply.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I stand here to thank you for giving me an opportunity to reply. Let me take this opportunity to thank the distinguished Senators who have made their contributions to this Motion. I have a list of 11 Senators who have supported this Motion on behalf of the House and I thank them. I want, in summary, to say that this matter has been going on for a long time. In 2004, Parliament passed a Motion that I moved. In 2006, the former Government released over 500,000 certificates that were being held. The Government did not become broke with that action. The Government helped over 500,000 former students to get their certificates. I am sure many of them accessed employment and further education and they are better off today. Madam Temporary Speaker, what the Government did not do at that time was to ban further withholding of certificates. They simply asked schools to release the certificates that were held up to 2006. From 2007, school principals started retaining certificates and they have done so to date. It is very clear to all and sundry that these are poor students. Nobody can allow their certificates to be retained in an institution for seven years if they have money to pay. That is why when we were discussing the Kenya National Examinations Council Bill, I persuaded the then Minister for Education, the late Mutula Kilonzo, to let me move an amendment to make it The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Hon. Members, I want to draw your attention to Standing Order No.72(1). I proceed to rule that this matter does not affect counties. I will, therefore, proceed to put the question.
ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL OPEN AND DISTANCE LEARNING UNIVERSITY THAT, aware that the Open and Distance Learning (ODL) offers flexible learning opportunities thereby freeing learners from constraints of time and place while enabling them to combine work and family responsibilities with educational opportunities; aware that there is minimum use of ODL in both primary and secondary schools in Kenya; appreciating that this mode of learning would facilitate access to education in areas where physical and socio-economic factors hinder access; the Senate urges the National Government to institutionalize and mainstream policies to support ODL through the development of an effective regulatory and legal framework for ODL and to establish a national university dedicated to ODL.
This is resumption of debate interrupted on Thursday, 10th April, 2014. The last speaker had concluded his contribution. Any Senator can, therefore, rise to make a contribution. We have a balance of 1 hour 40 minutes. Is there no Member interested in making a contribution to this Motion? That being the case, I will call upon the Mover to reply.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. As you rightfully put it, on 10th April, 2014, I introduced this Motion where the Directorate of Science and Technology is asking that the national Government institutionalizes and mainstream policies to support open and distance learning through the effective regulative and legal framework for Open Distance Learning (ODL) and to establish a national university dedicated to open distance learning popularly known as the Open University of Kenya. Madam Temporary Speaker, as the previous contributor said, it is a challenge that Kenya has not adopted a system where people can acquire education programmes through distance learning just as other countries. There is no law that has ever been introduced to support this in our country except a mere mention in the Sessional Paper No.1 of 2005. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Senator. I once again draw your attention to Standing Order No.72 (1) and rule that this Motion does not affect counties. I will, therefore, proceed to put the question.
TRANSFORMATION OF NAIROBI AND MOMBASA INSPECTORATE DEPARTMENTS INTO MODERN METROPOLITAN SECURITY AGENCIES THAT, aware that pursuant to Article 6(2) of the Constitution, the national and county levels of government are distinct and interdependent and that they conduct their mutual relations on the basis of consultation and cooperation; recognizing that the respective functions and powers of national and county governments are provided for in Article 186 and the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution, and that under paragraphs 6 and 7 of Part 1 of the Fourth Schedule, national security is a function of the national government; further recognizing that Article 187 of the Constitution provides for the transfer of functions and powers from one level of government to the other; cognizant that Nairobi and Mombasa cities are the main gateways to Kenya; concerned, however, that the threat of terrorism continues to be a major challenge to the two cities and the country at large which adversely affects Kenya’s image internationally and hampers investment; recognizing that Article 247 of the Constitution allows for establishment of police formations to supplement the National Police Service; the Senate urges the national government to- a) enter into agreements with county governments with a view to cooperating and working jointly in executing functions and powers relating to security; b) enter into agreement with county governments of Nairobi and Mombasa with a view to transforming their respective city inspectorate departments into modern metropolitan security agencies capable of detecting and combating terrorist and other criminal activities; and, c) initiate legislation to provide for a legal framework for the complementary roles of the proposed metropolitan security agencies to supplement the National Security Agencies. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Is Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki not in the House? This Motion is deferred.
Hon. Senators, there being no further business, the Senate, therefore, stands adjourned to Tuesday 10th June, 2014, at 2.30 p.m. The House rose at 4.40 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.