Is the Chairperson of the Committee on Delegated Legislation here? Sen. Mukiite, proceed and lay the Report. REPORT OF THE 132ND IPU ASSEMBLY AND RELATED MEETINGS HELD IN HANOI, VIETNAM, FROM 26TH MARCH, 2015 TO 1ST APRIL, 2015
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Tuesday, 13th October, 2015. Report of the 132nd IPU Assembly and related meetings held in Hanoi, Vietnam, from 26th March, 2015 to 1st April, 2015.
Is there Chairperson, Committee on Delegation Legislation here? Let us move on to the next order and we begin with the requests.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to request for a statement. Before I go the substance of the statement, allow me, as the Senator for Vihiga County, to express my deepest sympathy and condolences to the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, permit me to ask another question in terms of clarification. Since criminal negligence is personal, it will be best if the Chairperson could also get the names of the doctors in charge during the 18 hours that this gentleman was lying in the ambulance and other persons who would have been responsible at the time.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, what the Senator for Vihiga County has raised is a very common occurrence. It happens everyday. We know that citizens have a fundamental right to healthcare. I would like the Chairperson of the Committee, when they eventually responds; to state what specific legal provisions exist for the Government to enforce the citizens fundamental rights to healthcare.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, health under the new Constitution is fully devolved. Could the Chairperson tell us what the Governor of Nairobi County is doing to ensure that the four million Kenyans who live in his county have access to ICU beds considering that there are only 21 public ICU beds in all public hospitals in Nairobi?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in responding to this question, we know that all doctors take the Hippocratic Oath that requires them to attend to any patient before them regardless. Even on a warfront, doctors treat injured combatants from the enemy forces. Could the Chairperson, in his response, and this is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
The last two; Sen. Ndiema and Sen. Hassan Omar Hassan.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to ride on that and seek clarification on whether the Government is aware that there are many hospitals which turn away patients on the basis of ailments that they have. If they are aware, what action is being taken to ensure that such hospitals are deregistered? There are hospitals which deliberately chose not to admit certain patients just because of the seriousness of their ailments.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, further to the question, particularly by Sen. Wetangula, the Constitution says that nobody shall be denied the right to emergency health care. Usually, the Constitution is a very broad set of aspirations. What is the Ministry doing to ensure that these provisions of the Constitution are enforced in a manner as to give it the legal force that is intended by law? Secondly, I am informed that a paramedic stayed with the deceased person for almost 18 hours. Are there ways in which we can honour and celebrate such Kenyans who give themselves in the line of duty and in particular, this medic, the young Odhiambo?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is, indeed, a very sad episode that has happened, but the worrying thing is that it is not the first one. Every time such episode has occurred, we have had statements from the Ministry of Health that all hospitals are supposed to admit people without payment. It is like a policy in that Ministry. Therefore, the answer should also include; 1. How is that policy being enforced? 2. I heard the Cabinet Secretary (CS) in a interview about the same on Citizen TV, saying that the 18 hours refer to the total amount of time used to visit various hospitals not just Kenyatta National Hospital (KNH), where they ultimately ended up. So, I want to know what the county government is doing in Nairobi to ensure that all hospitals are aware of the clear health policy on the matter. Health policy is an issue of the national government. If it has the policy, what action is the county government doing to ensure that there is clear health policy within Nairobi? 3. I heard the CS say that they are going to investigate the incident. We want to know what steps they have taken to investigate and what the results of that investigation are.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I relate with the feeling of the House and also pass my condolences to the family of Mr. Madaga. This is a very sad episode. It has generated a lot of interest, not only on the specific incident, but also on issues touching The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I know that many Members have rode on this particular statement to ask for numerous things that are very relevant. The Cabinet Secretary (CS) is on record saying that within a week from Sunday when he was on the interview, they will have done investigations. This young man from my county is being buried on Saturday. Tension is very high in the county, particularly in the village where the young man was born. Would I be in order to ask the Chairpeson to come up with some provisional information at least on the very issues that I asked other than the health matters because I personally intend to bring a Bill to this House which I am drafting to operationalize Article No. 43(2) of the Constitution? I was told that there is a Bill that originated from the National Assembly and it has been sitting there for the last six months. I do not think anything stops me from coming up with another Bill so that Kenyans can reap the fruits of this constitution. Could he come up with a provisional statement on the real matters regarding the death of Alex Madaga? Then he can come up with a comprehensive statement in two weeks’ time as promised, on the other issues that were raised.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, mine is on a statement that I sought sometimes back.
Chairman Health Committee
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I understand the urgency of the matter and the need for my distinguished colleague to get a quick answer. However, for us to really give justice to this matter and also make sure such is not repeated, now that the death has occurred, it is important to ensure no other death happens by addressing this matter in its entirety as asked by the House. However, I still seek your guidance.
Order, Mr. Chairman! My guidance is a follows: Deal with the matter comprehensively in two weeks. By Thursday this week, give the specifics that the Senator for Vihiga has requested. In any case, accidents continue to happen. Therefore, the more time we spend on it, the more possibility of more people dying due to negligence. So the sooner you address the mater, the more prevention you are doing. Hon. Senators, we move on now to the next Statement No.2(a).
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have the response to the question raised by my colleague, Sen. Chelule---
Order, Mr. Chairman! All of us have a copy of the Order Paper. Proceed and respond to the Statement. We know who sought it. It is in the Order Paper. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you very much for your guidance. I am obliged. The question that was asked was whether the government was aware whether the youth, women, and persons with disabilities face challenges in executing government tenders that are won, due to lack of collateral required by financial institutions to secure the loans. The response is that the Government is aware of the financial challenges faced by these people in executing government tenders that they win. It is in this regard that the government has taken the following measures to ensure that this category groups continue bidding and supplying government tenders; 1. The Youth Development Enterprise Fund and the Women Enterprise Fund mandates were expanded to offer Local Purchase Orders (LPOs) and Local Service Order ( LSO) financing for youth and persons with disabilities who have won tenders from the government. The Youth Development Enterprise Fund offers 70 per cent of the LPOs and LSO financing up to Ksh.1,000,000 without collateral while Women Enterprise Fund offer up to 60 per cent of LPOs and LSO value of up to Kshs500,000 without collateral. The beneficiary is required to provide the original copies of LPO or LSO and the letter of undertaking from the procuring agency that serves as security. These facilities attract a one-off commission of 6.5 per cent. The above minimum financing thresholds for the youth, women and persons with disabilities entrepreneurs who need financing of above Ksh.1,000,000 from the Youth Fund or over Kshs500.000 from the Women Fund will be required to provide collateral in terms of land property, motor vehicles or guarantees before they are financed. 2. The youth, women, and persons with disabilities entrepreneurs who have access to government procurement opportunities, certificates are excluded from the requirement of bid bonds and are instead required to fill and sign the tender, securing declaration forms with the procuring entity. 3. Where delay of payment for work performed is anticipated, the procuring entity may facilitate invoice, discounting arrangements with the financial institutions for purposes of advancing credit to the affected enterprises. Second question was to provide a comprehensive report on youth, women, and persons with disabilities who have benefited from Uwezo Fund from all the sub counties.
Fund Oversight Board has received 55,456 applications from groups and institutions. In the last two financial years, out of the Kshs5354,400,000 disbursed to the 290 constituencies, the Board has approved Kshs4,240,400,000 for funding, to the groups or institutions that meet the eligibility criteria as provided in the Public Finance Benefit called Uwezo Fund. The Funds have benefited 42,801 groups countrywide out of which 26,838 are women groups, 14,986 are youth groups and 977 are groups of people living with disabilities as shown. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, first, I thank the Chairperson and the entire membership of the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare for the time they took to address the issue raised. However, I have few problems pertaining to the way the programme has been organized. I thank the Government for coming up with a good policy on how to address unemployment among the youth, persons with disabilities and women through the 30 per cent policy of Government tenders going to these three vulnerable groups. The Government has also gone ahead to make arrangements for LPOs or those who have benefited from these tenders to get funding from the Youth Enterprise Fund, but the problem is access to information. There seems to be a very good plan by the Government, but how these people will access information is the issue. The criteria being used by the Youth and Women Enterprise Fund to give out loans for these groups to implement their tenders are so tedious. Most of them cannot access these funds. I request that there should be a one-stop shop at the sub-county level to give proper information to the people; not only on how to implement the tenders, but how they can also register groups, enterprises and companies. It is cumbersome---
Order, Senator! It is Statement Time. You have sought enough information and the criteria. The Chairperson will respond.
She is actually issuing a statement.
Proceed, Sen. Chelule.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had sought two statements. I am referring to the first statement. The second one was on a comprehensive report about Uwezo Fund that targets women and youth. Since the comprehensive report is so bulky, I am requesting to be given enough time; and I hope my fellow Senators would also like to have enough time to peruse through the document for them to react to it. Therefore, I am requesting for adequate time to go through this because I want to see the women of---
Order, Senator! Resume your seat. The Statement states: “The Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare to issue a statement on access to finances by youth, women and persons with disabilities to execute the Government tenders.” I do not see two items there. I remember that last week, you were ready to prosecute even that bulky report. I was the one who asked that you be given time over the weekend so that you could peruse the document. Therefore, you cannot come back and tell us that you want more time. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have just been given this bulky report today in the afternoon. It was not given to me on Friday. That is why I need time to peruse and even for the Senators to also look at it. It is my humble request to the Senators that---
Order! You have made your request. Proceed, Sen. Madzayo.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This document---
It is, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sorry. I stand guided. This document has been here even before the Session started this afternoon. I have been having it with me. I asked her if she wanted to have a look at it and if she had any question. Today, this afternoon, it was lying with the Clerk-at-the-Table there. She should have walked in, picked it up and familiarized herself. So, I do not think that she can pass the buck to this other side.
Order, Senators! Our Constitution is very clear. Technicalities cannot deny Kenyans opportunities. These are opportunities created for the youth, women and persons with disabilities. On that basis, I will allow Sen. Chelule to deal with the comprehensive report on Thursday. For now, just deal with the issues she has raised in terms of information and other structures at the county levels. I still see that other Senators are interested; I will give you not more than a minute each. Proceed, Sen. Abdirahman.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have heard the Chairperson say that the youth and women through the Youth and Women Enterprise Funds are given Kshs500,000 and Kshs1,000,000, respectively, through LSOs and LPOs. I understand that LPOs and LSOs do not give direct cash to individual applicants. Could the Chairperson clarify on how the youth, women and persons with disabilities can access those funds directly because they may have to pay for labour and other things? Above that, this will not help the youth and women grow. They are meant to live on very small amounts of money. These tenders that are either advertised locally in counties or nationally---
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am building up, if you allow.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I only want to say---
There are no structures to be built here.
I am not building a structure---
We are interrogation the Statement made by the Chairperson.
But it is related to the same, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Please, use the microphone. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Well, I am done.
I will allow you to seek clarifications not building--- What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Did you notice that for the last few moments the Chair has been engaging in a heated exchange with the Senator for Wajir?
He is throwing a barb, he throws a barb; a hook, he ducks, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! I am not aware of any exchange.
And any hooks!
I was only guiding Sen. Abdirahman while he was just seeking further clarifications. Proceed, Sen. Abdirahman.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am a very peaceful person. I have not come with any arms. My last comment is for the Chairperson to confirm whether there is any relationship in terms of enhancing the requirement for these groups to get the 30 per cent contracts as stipulated in the policy.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like the Chairperson of the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare to clarify if he went further and found out why persons with disabilities have never received funds meant for them. This would help them deal with LPOs and other issues. As far as tenders are concerned, among the three groups, the most marginalised is persons with disabilities. We are more vulnerable compared to other groups. When the Chairperson gave the answer to the questions, I did not hear much being said about persons with disabilities per se in the sense of the kitty they depend on. The two kitties sound more like they are meant for women and the youth.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank the Chairperson of the Committee for reading that statement. Whereas, in theory the process of seeking Government jobs or tenders has improved, in reality youth, women and persons with disabilities still face challenges. One of challenges is late payment for jobs done. I would like to find out from the Chairperson of the Committee whether there is an agreed upon duration that jobs that have been completed should be paid? Is there an agree upon duration---
Order, Sen. M. Kajwang! You have done very well; repeating does not make it any juicer. Proceed, Chairperson.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the two Senators who spoke earlier; Sen. Abdirahman and Sen. Njoroge are Members of my Committee on Labour and Social Welfare. They should have raised these questions and they should know better. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Chairperson! Sen. M. Kajwang talked about duration. That is what you need to find out. There are also issues raised by Sen. Chelule. I can understand your response to Sen. Njoroge and Sen. Abdirahman. Deal with Sen. Chelule’s issues as well. What is it, Sen. Abdirahman?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is true that we are Members of the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare, but this was a specific Statement sought by a Member of this House. It is asking for certain issues that relate to the interest of Kenyans. We, as Members, can either seek for clarification or question why the Government is doing one thing in one way or the other. Is the Chairperson in order to say that we cannot ask where a certain Member may have asked certain questions that are in the interest of Kenyans?
Order! What I heard from the Chairperson is that you are more privileged than the rest by virtue of membership. While I could see the basis on which you could ask questions is other statements, especially on the basis of issues relating to your county, but your issues were generic in nature, if I understood you well. They will be covered. Proceed, Chairperson.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order! It equally applies to you Sen. Njoroge. I am sure that you are just raising the same issue. Let us remember that it is almost quarter past three and we are just on one statement.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will be in a position to respond in the next two weeks.
Order! You cannot respond to a follow up in two weeks. That should take one week.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am obliged.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Machage?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for the guidance you gave for the statement that has just been read to us by the Chairperson. However, my concern is the modality in which we interrogate statements in this House. We are losing focus. I beg for your indulgence that you guide the House. When a statement is read, interrogation does not mean another speech or statement from the questioner. That is how we have wasted time. There is need to put limits on the number of questions one can ask at once and the---
(Hon. Ethuro) Order, Sen. (Dr.) Machage! If you really believe in what you are saying you would not have raised that point of order because you are taking more of our time to repeat what the Chair was at pains to tell Members, including cutting of point of orders from Sen. Njoroge. Did you have to repeat yourself to be heard? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to issue a statement which was sought by Sen. Wangari on the deteriorating medical care standards with specific reference to quack doctors. In her statement, the Senator had asked a lot of questions and I will answer one after the other. (1) Enumerate the statistical figures of genuine medical practitioners, quack doctors and medic in Kenya. The Kenya Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board (KMPDB) under CAP 253 has the sole mandate to regulate the practice of medicine, dentistry and health institutions in Kenya. As at 7th October, 2015, the board has the following statistics:- Register medical practitioners- 9902 Registered dental practitioners-1165 Those who are licensed and active as at this date because there is the annual renew which is active and those who are registered, but they are not active. The active medical practitioners are 5628 and 611 active dental practitioners. The health facilities registered in Kenya as at 7th October, 2015, is 4428. Those active are 2847. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Senator has sought the statistics of quack doctors, but it is not possible to give the number of quack doctors as they do not have a register. (2) Explain the action that is taken on quack doctors and medics who are netted in swoops by the Ministry of Health. When identified, quacks are arrested and taken to court where they are charged under respective counts. (3) Enumerate the number of quack doctors and medics before the court of law and state the outcome of cases before the courts of law that have been heard and determined in the last 10 years. In a view to make sure that qualified medical and dental practitioners are practicing in the country, the Board has over the years arrested unqualified people who have been found providing medical or dental services to the public. In 2014 and 2015, a total of 89 people have been arrested during the joint inspection and are currently before various courts in the country. In the last 10 years, the Board, in collaboration with the police, has prosecuted a total of 13 cases involving quacks. Of the 13 cases, eight cases have been determined where the accused were found guilty and ordered to either pay a fine or serve a jail term of two years. The remaining five cases are still pending in court. (4) Explain what Kenyans should look out for in authenticating credentials of doctors and medics in both public and private hospitals and the steps that the national Government is taking to educate Kenyans on how to distinguish between genuine legally registered doctors and quack doctors. The KMPDB registers all medical and dental practitioners and issues them permanent registration numbers. This number is unique to each doctor. To ensure that the doctors are active and fit to practice, the Board issues them a Retention Certificate every The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Chairman of the Committee on Health for that response but as you have realized, when we began this Session, the issues that have dominated this House especially on matters of health in terms of negligence are still very many. Therefore, I want to seek clear clarifications from the Chair. First, I am interested with the kind fines that have been meted to the eight cases that have been determined so far in the last 10 years. The Chair should clarify the names of the medical practitioners or the crime and the charges preferred against them. Secondly, if the Chairman says that between 2014 and 2015, 89 people were arrested for negligence or for malpractices and only 13 cases have been prosecuted in the last 10 years, I would like to know why we have discrepancy because 89 people were arrested in just two years but in ten years, we only have 13 cases. I also seek clarity on the issue of children that were injected wrongly---
Order Senator! I hope that is the last clarification.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will make it very short. I also seek clarity on the issue of children that were injected wrongly in Elgeyo-Marakwet, two of them died. Was there any action taken against the medical practitioner who was in charge of this immunization? As he or she been taken to court? Finally, could the Chair clarify whether medical practitioners who are involved in negligence in the KMPDB are blacklisted so that people can identify them from a distance?
There is only one clarification for the rest of you. So you should prioritize. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there have been very many people masquerading as doctors. Could the Chairman tell this House who qualifies to be called a doctor and who qualifies to be called a medical practitioner? Are clinical officers and nurses doctors or practitioners?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, first I thank Sen. Wangari for bringing this very important issue to the Floor. I want to seek a clarification from the Chairman. The Kenya Medical Practitioners and Dentist Act that governs the subject that he is answering to is an Act of Parliament that was passed way back in 1978. In that Act, Section 22 provided for penalties for unregistered and unlicensed persons practicing medicine. Those are the quacks he is talking about. The penalty is as partly as Kshs10,000 regardless of the offense or a jail term of one year. Could the Chairman assure this House that this Committee will proactively take up this Act, liaise with the Kenya Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board and review it to meet the changing times to deal with quacks firmly and sternly, including publishing their pictures and names in daily news papers, so that they are named and shamed, to the level where they cannot masquerade as doctors anywhere and everywhere? Finally, if you can allow me to talke about the serious case that happened in Busia county where the distinguished Sen. Amos Wako comes from. Were the children who were injected and suffered server paralysis injected by quacks or negligent medics, and in either case has a any criminal culpability been apportioned to those negligent doctors or nurses who injected those children?
In addition to what Sen. Wetangula has stated, this Act is old, and the penalties are very lenient. I believe also that the machinery for discipline and prosecution is non-existent, because I heard the Chairman of the Kenya Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board say that they have only five or ten inspectors for the whole country, whereas maybe those inspectors or investigators---
Order, Sen. Wako. It is clarification time.
What steps have been taken to strengthen the investigative arm and the inspectorate arm of the Kenya Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board? Secondly---
Order! One clarification only, I am afraid. You are even lucky that the Senate Minority Leader had already alluded to something about Busia. Proceed Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.
Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir. One of the biggest challenges that the Kenya Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board is faced with is that when these so called quacks are arrested and eventually, prosecuted, the prosecutors are police constables with no experience and technical skills enough to pursue these cases. What is the Government doing to ensure that the Kenya Medical Practitioners and Dentistsa Board has it is own prosecutors?
I want further clarification especially on the last question which Sen. Martha asked about the children who were affected by the wrong vaccination. May I ask that the list of the children who suffered the same fate in the entire The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I appreciate the interest this matter has generated. On the issue raised by Sen. Wangari about the fines, names and the details of the cases that have come before the court, I need time for that so that we could enumerate that. I do not have the list with me right now. She also wanted to know why out of the 89 cases, only 13 went through. Last week, we had the Cabinet Secretary for Health who was accompanied by Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of the Kenya Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board. It was very unfortunate that the attendance was not that good because this matter came up and the CEO who was here and deliberated a lot on it. What came out clearly is that while they carry swoops to net quack doctors, the challenge the Board has is on the enforcement. These people find their way after they have been arrested. They put the blame on the police department because once they are arrested, their job ends there. They are handed over to the police to prosecute, and somehow these people are either let scot- free or pay a minimal fine. Obviously, this is made worse, and I do fully agree with Sen. Wetangula, by the fact that the Kenya Medical Practitioners and Dentists Act of 1978 is too old. It is also not punitive enough. It does not punish the culprits hard enough. Also, their ability to navigate the Police Department and be let loose came out very clearly, when the CEO for the Kenya Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board was here. On the issue of the children---
I am actually going to answer you separately but just to combine it with the issue raised by the Senator, I want to assure the House that we will work on this . We will actually call the Kenya Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board---
Order, Chair! Those are details
We will work on the weaknesses in this Act. Sen.(Dr.) Machage asked who is a qualified doctor. From my training anyone who has done a degree in medicine and surgery; the so-called MBCHB that is, Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery qualifies to be called a doctor in the field of medicine. Of course, there are doctors who are PhD holders in other fields. This has been contested from the time I was leaving the Medical School. The pharmacists have worked their way, and I think they are also called doctors. But as of the time I was leaving Medical School, Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery qualifies to be called a doctor. Clinical officers, nurses and all other cadres below that have their own reference names but not doctors. I know why Sen. (Dr.) Machage has asked this. It is because everybody in a white coat is a doctor and sometimes that also leads to a lot of such incidences of negligence. On the issue of the children, which the Senator for Busia, Sen.(Prof.) Lonyangapuo and Sen. Wangari asked about, all I have to say is that listing of all such The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
In conclusion, I would like to say that we will work together as a Committee with the Board to strengthen areas that are weak in the law and also to ensure that the inspectorate capabilities are strengthened.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, both (d) and (e) pertains to my Committee. ISSUANCE OF TITLE DEEDS IN MERU COUNTY On Statement (d) on the Order Paper on the issuance of title deeds in Meru County, we wrote to Dr. Fred Matiangi, the Acting Cabinet Secretary (CS), Ministry of Land, Housing and Urban Development on 29th September, 2015 requesting for this Statement. Up to now, we have not received any response. I have a copy of the letter that my Committee wrote to the Cabinet Secretary (CS). I request that we give it one more week because it is just about two weeks since we wrote to the Cabinet secretary (CS). We will report when we get any response.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not the Chairperson of the Committee on Land and Natural Resources ---
Order, Sen. Murungi! Respond to the real issues and not side shows. That was deliberately designed to distract you from your ---
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Senate Minority Leader is always trying to distract people. I appreciate the predicament that our brother, Deputy Chairperson of the Committee on Lands and Natural Resources is in. I am also the Chairperson of the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries. Sometimes we do not get responses from the Ministry when we want. However, merely writing a letter is not enough. You can call the Cabinet Secretary (CS) or have a cup of tea with him and find out why this answer has not been given.
Order, Sen. Khaniri! You have a responsibility and you will get the opportunity to speak. Relax.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, can the Vice-Chairperson demonstrate to this House that apart from writing the letter, he has made more effort to get a response to my question?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is very annoying when you know that --- I have always stated on the Floor of this House that my Committee is one of the most prompt Committees in responding to Statements and very active in this House. You have attested to this. The Statement was sought on 27th September, 2015 and we requested for two The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Sen. Khaniri! Nobody is teaching you anything. You are in a better position to demonstrate that you do not need any teaching because you undertook certain actions.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I know that there is a Statement that he sought from us way back in June and it has not been delivered. However, it is not in the Order Paper but when it comes, I will respond to it and say what action has been taken. However, this Statement was requested barely three weeks ago. Some Statements take months for Chairpersons to report here ---
Order! You appreciate that the Chair appreciates the responses of your Committee but that cannot be an excuse to this particular Statement. All that Sen. Murungi has asked of you – apart from writing the letter given that you promised two weeks from 27th September, 2015, just calculate your calendar – what else did you do knowing that the question was coming up? That is all. Respond that you did nothing or you are very sure you needed one more week. You should not defend the Committee; we are not questioning the competence of your. That is what took place for this particular Statement.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, indeed, my clerk has made frantic efforts to make phone calls to the Cabinet Secretary (CS) but I was only alluding to the evidence that I can table here. At least, I have a letter that was written on 29th September, 2015. If we do not get response besides the telephone calls, we will remind him, which I shall also have in my file.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. If you noted, there was a Senator standing next to you in very interesting regalia. Is he properly dressed to attend this Sitting or is it now in order that we can wear anything to attend sittings in this House?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I think Sen. (Dr.) Machage should not waste our time. You have ruled over wearing of a traditional dress. This is a proper Islamic traditional dress. He has just come from Mecca. You should ask him to pray for you so that you can be re-elected in 2017.
On the face of it, I cannot tell whether it is traditional or religious. I have mandated my technical people to examine the dressing more closely and I will respond to you when I have gathered all my facts.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I urge you to come up with a response as quickly as possible, because the Senator from Kuria was telling me that he The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. Orengo, you can be sure that is no basis for expediting the ruling. If he comes in a shuka and a sword, he will not even enter the Chamber because he will be carrying an offensive weapon.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. What we are seeing this afternoon is not different from what Sen. Haji wore at the commencement of this Senate. I cannot remember whether it was at The Kenyatta International Convention Centre (KICC) or County Hall, but I remember you made a ruling yourself. For the interest and knowledge of quite a number of us who may not know, that is not a traditional dress. This will be very useful for many of us to understand ---
Sen. Abdirahman, how can you not quote the authority?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have quoted the authority as part of your ruling. It is an Islamic dress. Islam draws its knowledge and teachings from not only the Holy Quran, but also the teachings of the Prophet. This is what constitutes Islamic knowledge and history. I am not teaching any one now but it is an Islamic dress.
Order, Members! That is the end of that story. Sen. Bule, what do you have to say?
Asante sana, Bw. Spika. Mavazi yangu isiwe ni ya Hoja leo. Mimi ni Mwislamu na ni kawaida kwa Mwislamu, na haya ni mavazi ambayo kawaida na hata katika sheria yetu ya Bunge inaruhusu mtu awe na kanzu na koti. Pengine tasbihi ambayo nimebeba mkononi huenda ikawa mtu akaona kwamba ni geni. Hii ni kanzu wala sio tai. Kwa hivyo, mtu ajue kwamba kanzu inaruhusiwa Bungeni na iko katika maandiko.
Order! Sen. Bule. Resume your seat. I will make the necessary ruling sooner than later. Let us go to Statement 2 (c).
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Part 2 (c) is about a Statement requested by Sen. Kanainza regarding the death of Mrs. Maurine Tata during delivery. Also, in her several questions, the Senator sought from question Nos.7 to 11 about the same thing that we covered about negligence, quacks and I will, therefore, assume that on the deliberations we had for the interest of time, with your permission, I will omit from Nos.7 to 11 and deal with question one to six. Unless the Senator has---
Proceed along those lines.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Her first question is whether the Government is aware one Mrs. Tata was hospitalized at St Francis Community Hospital. The answer says the Ministry is aware that Mrs. Tata was admitted at St Francis Community Hospital on 4th July, 2015 for delivery and delivered through cesarean section at the facility and subsequently referred to The Kenyatta National Hospital (KNH) on 7th July, 2015, where she died on 8th July, 2015, and an autopsy was performed on the body of Mrs. Tata which found no evidence of internal hemorrhages. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I have tried to interrogate the reply given by the Chair of the Health Committee and it is very unfortunate that the Cabinet Secretary (CS) together with the Kenya Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board are trying to protect the sins committed by this hospital in particular, and the gynecologist who did the caesarean. It is very clear in my question No.3 that the patient was given food and that is for a fact because during the postmortem which we followed keenly, is that food particles were found in the system. The doctor from St Francis was asked about it and he confirmed that food was given to her, and in this Statement, the CS who signed this document is trying to deny. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also need clarification on my question No.4. It is claimed that the sister gave evidence that she was informed of the patient’s condition. The hospital refused to give information on the progress of the patient. It was the family’s decision. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order! You have made your request. Sen. Wangari, you want a clarification?
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I will repeat again that the Committee on Health needs to interrogate these issues. As you can see, the frequency of the negligence of doctors is coming here every day every time. On the Statement, this specific mother left a few hours old baby. It was a very unfortunate case. I want to follow up on the question that was asked by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, that day when the Statement was sought. He asked clearly what the qualifications of the person who carried out the caesarean section, the anesthetist and everyone who was used as the scrub nurse are. Were all these professionals who were used in that operation qualified? Can the qualifications and the names be tabled in this House?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am surprised that the Chairman who is also a doctor of medicine could accept this kind of answer. He has told us that the autopsy findings indicated that there was no internal hemorrhage bleeding. I would have expected him to use the same postmortem to tell the family what the cause of the death was. So, your answer is not satisfactory in any way.
Order! Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. What is the difference between internal hemorrhage and bleeding?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, those two words mean the same thing. I just used them interchangeably. When I said the word “hemorrhage”, I might have lost a few listeners, so I replaced it with the word “bleeding.” Is the Chairman in order---
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! Where does the Chairman come in? I am the one who asked you that question. Sen. (Dr.) Kuti, please, proceed.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the cause of death has just been sought but it was not among the questions that were sought by Sen. Kanainza. However, now that it has come up, we will find out what the cause of death was. The other issue, I agree that what---
Order, Chairman! The question that was sought required you to issue a statement regarding the death. How do you issue such a statement without knowing the cause? There must have been an autopsy.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there was the issue of referral of the patient to Kenyatta National Hospital (KNH), which is not clear to me. Therefore, I would like to withdraw this statement and seek a better answer. I also agree that we should visit the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Chairman! You are being repetitive. When will you give the answer?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will give an answer in two weeks’ time.
Very well. Sen. Khaniri, I hope that the one week you requested also applies to Sen. Murungi’s statement because we did not conclude it.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we concluded the statement by Sen. Murungi
Very well. Please, proceed. DESTRUCTION OF INDIGENOUS TREES IN THE NORTH RIFT REGION
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to respond to a statement that was sought by Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo. One, he wanted me to state whether the Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources is aware of the destruction of indigenous trees for charcoal burning in the North Rift particularly along Kerio River in Kolowa Ward neighbouring Tot in Marakwet and Chesegon in West Pokot which is being facilitated by senior national and county Government officials. The response to this particular question is that the Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources and Regional Development Authorities is aware that there is charcoal burning taking place, particularly in Kolowa and Tot areas of Baringo and Elgeyo- Marakwet counties, respectively. The charcoal is produced from material originating from clearing of vegetation to create room for an irrigation scheme in Kolowa and Tot areas which has been sanctioned by both Baringo and Elgeyo-Marakwet county governments after being approved by respective environment committees comprising of officers from both the national and county governments. However, there is unauthorized charcoal burning taking place within Chesegon in West Pokot, Turkana and other counties. The Cabinet Secretary assured me that the Ministry has been and will continue taking all necessary measures to curb this malpractice which is bound to interfere with the fragile ecosystem within the arid and semi arid areas. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Forest Act of 2005, that became operational in 2007, has clear regulations that govern sustainable production and regulation of the charcoal industry in the country through the charcoal rules that were developed and gazzetted in 2009. However, following the promulgation of the Constitution in 2010, some functions that were previously performed by the national Government were devolved to the county governments. One of the functions that the Ministry devolved to the county governments vide the Legal Notice No.137 of 9th August 2013, is the forest extension services under which the charcoal industry fall. Currently, all the charcoal produced in the country originates from private and community lands. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not think that the Chairman has finished reading the statement. He did not answer part “c, d, e and f “.
Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, since you have looked at them, just proceed.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I appreciate the work done by the Chairman and the Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources to submit the response to the key questions that I sought. However, I need further clarification on the first question where the Chairman has said that the said charcoal is a result of areas being cleared for irrigation. How do we know whether this is true? Where are the minutes of the said committees that legalized the areas to be cleared? Secondly, the Chairman said that charcoal is also being produced in Turkana, West Pokot and other counties, but he has not given us the list of all the culprits who have been caught ferrying charcoal from those counties. He also said that there is no charcoal burning in Elgeyo-Marakwet County outside gazzetted areas. However, he provided a list of persons prosecuted between July and September 2015 in Elgeyo- Marakwet County. Is that not a contradiction? Lastly, Mr. Speaker, Sir, you have also cited an Act of 2005 which state that the functions were devolved with coming of the New Constitution. One such function that the Ministry devolved was via Legal Notice No.137 about Forest Extension Service, which you have just cited. However, in answer (f) which the Vice Chairman never read, they still hold on this function while he has just said that it was devolved. He has said that the Ministry, through the Kenya Forest Service, is in the process of finalising transition implementation and so on and so forth. However, we need to be clear on that. When the function was handed over, why is he saying that they can still be managed from Nairobi?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the future of this country is in the Kerio Valley which runs from Baringo, Elgeyo-Marakwet to Turkana. Even as irrigation is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Let us be brief, Members.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I dare say that the Chairman’s response is misleading to the House. For the past 10 years, I have been asking questions concerning the issue of charcoal. I want to confirm that there is no irrigation going on in my county. Therefore, the question of clearing land for irrigation does not arise. What is happening is that the people we gave the responsibility to conserve forests are the ones destroying them in conjunction with the police. If I took the Chairman between Thika and Mwingi, he will find no less than 10 long vehicles carrying charcoal and passing through roadblocks where police officers are and they will claim to have permits from the Forest Department. Could the Chairman tell us who issues permits for charcoal to be burnt throughout the country? As we speak now, we risk having this country being turned into a desert courtesy of the Ministry that is supposed to protect forests.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, charcoal burning will always continue as long as there is a market for charcoal. Indeed, it is the poor of Kenya who use charcoal for cooking. Is the Chairman convinced that the Government has set up enough alternatives at an affordable cost for the poor people of this country to discourage them from using charcoal for purposes of cooking?
Finally, Sen. Wetangula.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, charcoal poaching is a serious menace in this country. There is no explanation or justification that can mitigate the destruction of forests that goes on everywhere. All you need to do is to fly over any of the forests to see what is happening. Members of the notorious “sky team”, like Sen. Murkomen, can tell you that when you fly over the Mau and many other forests, you will see that there is serious ongoing destruction of our forests yet we are a country with very thin forest cover. Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Vice-Chairman tell us – if he does not have the answer, he can get it from the Ministry – efforts being made to enforce the provisions of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Vice Chairman, Sen. Khaniri.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, you will definitely agree with me that the issue raised by Sen. Wetangula is a substantive matter and, therefore, cannot be supplementary to this particular question. The distinguished Senator for Bungoma, my elder brother, should put that question and we will get him answers from the Ministry because it is not related to this at all. Similarly, Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. Musila made very serious allegation – particularly for those of us who are concerned about conservation of our forests and environment – regarding charcoal burning in his area. He should be advised to request for a statement and the Committee will be more than willing to visit the place. However, the question about who issues permits for charcoal production is irrelevant. We all know that that is a devolved function. It is the county governments that are supposed to issue such particular permits, probably, in consultations with the Forest Department. That is a devolved function and, therefore, county governments should take responsibility fully. Regarding the issue raised by Sen. Murkomen for Elgeyo-Marakwet, I think he is better placed to answer that question because he is squarely in Government. We have been pushing the Government on the issue of resources.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could I finish what I am saying because I am answering him?
Let him finish and then, I will allow you to talk, Sen. Murkomen.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, he is talking about resources following functions. I am not an implementer of the policies of the Jubilee Government.
Order! Members. It is true, Sen. Khaniri, at one stage you alluded that those of us who are leaders in conservation, which means you are fully converted. Awhile ago you were dealing with Sen. Kiraitu’s matter and demonstrating how the Committee works diligently, and I agree completely. Keep that The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am guided by your ruling, but I will still stand my ground. As the Senate, we are fighting very hard to ensure that our counties get resources commensurate with the responsibilities as provided for in the Constitution. However, you will agree with me that the biggest hindrance is the Jubilee Government. When he asked me if the Forest Department---
Order, Sen. Khaniri. If you respond to the specific matter first, you can then draw the generic conclusion that it is these kinds of actions by this Government, I can understand that. But if you just respond by blanket condemnation, I think it is unfair to the question and your role as a Committee of the House.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in response to his question, I do not think that the resources devolved are commensurate to the responsibilities that have been given to these county governments.
On a point of information. Mr. Speaker Sir. May I inform the distinguished Senator for Vihiga that as we attempt to devolve functions including the management, protection and conservation of forests, the national Government has arrogantly refused to release the protection, management and ownership of forests to county governments to the extent that the Governor of Kakamega County has been contemplating taking the national Government to court because forest officers and other allied forces from the national Government are busy destroying the natural forests of Kakamega. When he tries to intervene, he is told it is a national forest. Sen. Murkomen anajua mambo haya.
Proceed, Sen. Khaniri.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The questioner, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, had three issues. First, he said that I had not tabled the full list of the people who have been got burning charcoal illegally. In his question, he did not ask for the list but I was magnanimous enough to give him a sample of the list of people who have been arrested to show that the Forest Department is taking action but he did not ask for a full list. If he does, I am sure the Cabinet Secretary is willing to give the full list of those who have been arrested and arraigned in court. Secondly, he alluded to an extension of my Statement. I read up to (e). We request the Statements from the Ministry and once we receive them, we synthesise and decide what to give. I read up to (d); the (e) and (f) he is alluding to is not part of my Statement and therefore I will not respond to that. Lastly, I stated clearly that the charcoal is produced from material originating from the clearing of the vegetation to create room for irrigation. That has been approved by the county governments of Elgeyo-Marakwet and Baringo. It has also been approved The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
That Statement is done.The last Statement is from the Chair committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget. What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale? I hope you are not attempting to respond to your own Statement.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Chairman of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget through the Vice Chair has requested that I allow them more time to come with an answer next week. He has left and I thought I should inform the Speaker.
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you know you have plenty of airtime in this House. You did not need that one. You should have approached me and I would have silently dropped the matter. Order, Senators. We must make progress. It is approaching 4.30 p.m. If the matter is not in the Order Paper, it may not be crucial for today. Orders No. 8 and 9 will be deferred to tomorrow and both will take priority. We are going to deal with Order No.10 for the remainder of the day and I will make communication on that.
Hon. Senators, as you may recall, pursuant to Standing Order 25, the President of the United Republic of Tanzania, H.E. (Dr.) Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete, addressed a Joint Sitting of Parliament on 6th October, 2015. I would like to guide the House on how we shall proceed on this matter as it is the next order. Hon. Senators, Standing Order No. 25(3) state as follows:- “Standing Order No.23 ( President entering or leaving the Chamber) and 24
shall, with necessary modifications, apply to a visiting Head of State or such other dignitary.” Standing Order No.24 (5) and (6) state as follows:- “(5) Whenever the President delivers an Address to Parliament, a Senator may, as soon as practicable thereafter, lay the Presidential Address on the Table of the Senate following reading of such Address. (6) A Senator may give a notice of Motion, that “The Thanks of the Senate be recorded for the exposition of public policy contained in the Address of the President” but debate on the Address shall not exceed three sitting days.” Hon. Senators, on Thursday, 8th October, 2015, the Senate Majority Leader lay the speech by H.E. (Dr.) Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete on the Table and gave a notice of Motion that the Thanks of the Senate be recorded for the Address to Parliament by the President of the United Republic of Tanzania delivered on Tuesday, 6th October, 2015. Pursuant to Standing Order No. 25 (3), I now direct that the said Motion will be limited to a maximum of two hours with 10 minutes for the Senate Majority Leader, 10 minutes for the Senate Minority Leader and five minutes for each other Senator speaking. Five minutes before the time expires, the Mover shall be called upon to reply. I encourage the presiding officer to vary the time accordingly depending on the mood of the House. I thank you.
Order, Sen. Musila!
In fact, that is why you were standing while I was standing too. Order, Sen. Musila!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is important that I---
Sen. Musila, I will not listen to your point of order if you do not obey my ruling. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
But Mr. Speaker, Sir---
Order, Sen. Musila!
I am on a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, Sen. Musila! Next Order.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.25 (3), the Thanks of the Senate be recorded for the Address to Parliament by the President of the United Republic of Tanzania delivered on Tuesday, 6th October, 2015. As the Motion reads, on 6th October, 2015, the National Assembly and the Senate in a Joint Sitting of Parliament hosted the outgoing President of the United Republic of Tanzania, His Excellency (Dr.) Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete; the President of a neighbouring friendly country. First and foremost, I want to take this opportunity to thank the President of the Republic of Kenya, His Excellency Uhuru Kenyatta, for inviting President Kikwete. Secondly, I thank President (Dr.) Jakaya Kikwete for not only honouring that invitation but also for giving a very dignified short but strong clear message not only about his imminent departure from the leadership of Tanzania but also with regard to the future relationship between our two countries. Mr. Speaker, Sir, one of the highlights of the Speech by His Excellency President (Dr.) Jakaya Kikwete was his emphasis that in three weeks’ time from that date; he would be leaving office in obedience to the Constitution of his country. These are the kind of leaders we want in Africa especially, where it has become common for leaders---
What is it, Sen. Orengo?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I do not want to revisit your ruling. However, we have taken too much time on Statements and the real business of the House begins when we are dealing with Motions. I note that in view of the fact that we do not even have a quorum in the House, you have allocated only five minutes which means that after the Mover and a reply, we may not even exhaust the two hours. With utmost respect, I am requesting that in view of the numbers we have in the House, could you possibly review your ruling. Five minutes for the issues that are raised in this Speech and for a Senator to stand up as if we are in the other House to speak for five minutes, it would not be doing justice to this Speech. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
I do not understand why you appear agitated for a simple request and particularly when you are not listening. These Statements are prepared way in advance. In appreciating the issues we have raised, I actually clarified my own Statement as I was reading it; 10 minutes to the Leaders and 5 minutes to any other Senator but the presiding officer may vary that time according to the mood of the House. Those are my words and they are on HANSARD. So, what you are raising will be taken into account.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you listened carefully to Sen. Orengo’s point of order, he mentioned about the quorum which is now in the HANSARD---
Order, Senator! I think there was a context in which that word was being used but you want to take it in another dimension. Do not put words into Sen. Orengo’s mouth, he is a wordsmith. Since he did not proceed along those lines, let us appreciate the context in which he meant that. It was to get more time and that has been granted. Proceed, the Senate Majority Leader.
(Sen. (Prof) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for your clarification. There is only one Majority Leader in this House. As I said, the Speech by His Excellency President (Dr.) Jakaya Kikwete came at the right time when he is leaving office. In this part of the world, it has become the norm that when the time for many leaders comes for them to leave office, they try to interfere with the Constitution of their country, to change the rules and they use the people as an excuse to hang on in office. Therefore, my very personal commendation as an African and a citizen of Africa goes to President Kikwete for honouring the Constitution of his country and not attempting---
Order, Members. The Leaders will have 20 minutes each so that the Majority Leader could proceed along those lines. Every other Senator speaking will have ten minutes each.
(Sen. (Prof) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank the intervention of the Leader of Minority because I was actually struggling on how to condense all these in ten minutes. Obedience to our constitutions is very important. Time has come for Africa` and Africans to respect the rules we set for ourselves. I am very happy and proud as a Kenyan and as an African to be associated with the transition that has taken place in Tanzania repeatedly. I think they have set a good example for the rest of us. We, in Kenya, have had the smooth departure of President Moi who handed over to President Kibaki. We have also seen President Kibaki hand over power to President Uhuru Kenyatta in accordance with our Constitution. As Kenyans, we believe that tradition will be maintained so that we could respect the Constitution that we have put into place. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! I will give you another three minutes.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I will wind up in two minutes. The other thing that came out is the assurance from the President that he does not see Tanzania’s policy changing after the oncoming elections. Of course, he said that he The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I second the Motion and laud the honour given to His Excellency President (Dr.) Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete as the first foreign head of state to address a Joint Sittings of Parliament, since the advent of the new Constitution. In his Address, His Excellency the President made a very pertinent point that pertains to the relationship between Kenya and Tanzania and East African region, as a whole. We also noted that many of our colleagues do not understand Kiswahili although it is our national language because they were bewildered by the manner in which the visiting President addressed the House in Kiswahili.
Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Are you sure they were bewildered because they did not understand Kiswahili or they wanted him to use the national language?
I think they were mesmerized and bewildered, without even knowing that this is our national language. Some Kenyans make no effort to speak Kiswahili like you do. You speak very good Kiswahili. The only person in this House who speaks better Kiswahili than you is me. Although, I have not addressed this House in the same language.
Bw. Spika wa Muda, nasimama kwa hoja ya nidhamu. Je, ni haki kwa Kiongozi wa Walio Wachache katika Seneti hii kuwaeleza Wakenya kwamba ndani ya Bunge hili ni wewe na yeye peke ambao mnafahamu Lugha ya Kiswahili?
Sen.(Dr.)Machage): Nidhamu! Hayo ni mawazo yake.
On a point of Order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is the leader of Minority in order to assign himself that honour when we have never ever heard him address this House in Kiswahili so that we can gauge him whether he is fluent in that language?
Sen.(Dr.)Machage: If nobody else blows your trunmphet, you blow it yourself. So the saying goes. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Nidhamu, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Hata kama hayo ni mawazo yake, lazima yawe mawazo ya ukweli sisi tumeishi Dar es salaam, na wale ambao wanajua Kiswahili sanifu tunaweza kuwatambua. Kwa hivyo, pamoja na kwamba Sen. Wetangula ni kiongozi wangu, nikukosa adabu sana kusema kwamba ni ninyi pekee ambao mnaweza kuongea Kiswahili. Sisi tumekaa Ugunja kwa “miaka mirefu” sana. Kwa hivyo, Bw. Spika wa Muda, lazima urekebishe usemi huo kwa sababu watu wanatusikiza.
Hoja ya nidhamu. Bw. Spika wa Muda. Kwa vile sasa yaonekana tukifanya majadiliano kuhusu Hotuba ya Rais wa Jamhuri ya Tanzania, ingelikuwa vyema utumie kipengee cha kwanza cha Kanuni za Seneti kuhakikisha kwamba kila atakayezungumza anaongea kwa Lugha ya Kiswahili. Hiyo itakuwa heshima kwa wale ambao wanataka kusema wana ubabe wa Kiswahili, tujadiliane kwa Lugha ya Kiswahili.
Sen.(Dr.)Machage): Mimi sitaki kuwa bebari, kwa hivyo kila mtu ana ruhusa.
Bw. Spika wa Muda, nimeshangazwa kuona kiongozi wangu akisimama mbele ya Seneti hii na kusema kwamba wanaozungumza Lugha ya Kiswahili sanifu na yenye ufasaha ni yeye na Spika. Amesahau kwamba tukiwa Kenyatta International Convention Centre (KICC), County Hall, na hata hapa hajawai kutoa taarifa hata siku moja kwa Lugha ya Kiswahili. Mhe. Spika wa Muda, kama kuna watu wanafaa kutajwa kwa kuzungumza Kiswahili ni mimi na nimeshangazwa kuwa amenisahua. Yapaswa kuwa wewe na mimi na wengine wanafuata. Yeye ana jaribu kuweka masafa ya kufuatilai lakini hayatafua dafu. Amekosea na yafaa arekebishe.
Sen. Machage): Nimewaskia nyote. Sen. Wetangula aliingia Bunge hili kipindi kimoja mbele yangu. Siwezi kujua kuna stakabadhi gani au nakala gani hapo siku za zamani labda aliongea Kiswahili wakati huo sijui, lakini ninavyoelewa huenda ni kweli hajatumia Kiswahili, labda nitumie kipengele cha kwanza cha Kanuni zetu kwa sababu tayari ulianzia kwa Lugha ya Kiingereza lakini nitamruhusu aendelea kwa Lugha ya Kiswahili.
Asante, Bw.Spika wa Muda, kwa kunipa nafasi ya kutumia lugha nyingine kinyume na Kanuni za Seneti hii. Kwanza umemsika ndugu yangu, Sen.Orengo, akizungumza lugha anayodai ni sanifu na ansema alikaa Ugunja kwa “miaka mirefu”. Hakuna Kiswahili kama hicho.Unaweza kukaa kwa miaka mingi au miaka michache, au muda mrefu lakini hauwezi kukaa miaka mirefu kwa sababu, miaka ni miaka hakuna miaka mifupi wala miaka mirefu. Mhe.Spika wa Muda, Hotuba ya Rais Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete ilikuwa ya kufana. Ilikuwa ni Hotuba ambayo ilileta mwelekeo mpya na mwelekeo wa kusaidia kanda hii ya Afrika Mashariki. Ninamfahamu Rais Kikwete na ni rafiki yangu, yeye ndiye rais pekee ambaye hutoa hotuba katika mikutano ya Umoja wa Afrika kwa Lugha ya Kiswahili. Lugha ya Kiswahili ni part ya ya lugha zile ambazo zimetambulika kama lugha rasmi ya
. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen.(Dr.) Machage): Ni nini maana ya part ya? Hoja ya nidhamu, umesema---
Bw. Spika wa Muda, ukitaka kujua vile lugha huwa ni kuchukua maneno kutoka lugha zingine.
Hoja ya nidhamu, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Kiongozi wangu badala ya kusema kwamba ni baadhi au moja wapo ya lugha zinazotumika katika kimataifa na anasema ni part ya. Ni Kiswahili gani hicho?Arekebishe au asirekbishe?
Bw. Spika wa Muda, ukisoma historia ya lugha yoyote, hakuna lugha inayowekwa kwa nyungu na kufungwa. Lugha inakuwa kwa kuchanganya maneno kutoka lugha zingine na kujaza.Rais Kikwete huhutubia vikao vya Umoja wa Afrika kwa Lugha ya Kiswahili peke yake. Lugha rasmi za Umoja wa Afrika ni Kiingereza, Kifaransa, Kireno, Kihispania, Kiarabu na Kiswahili. Bw. Spika wa Muda, katika Hotuba yake mojawapo ya vitu ambavyo alitambua ni kwamba nchi anayoongoza ya Jamhuri ya Muungano wa Tanzania inazingatia Umoja wa Afrika Mashariki. Akasema kwamba yeye na wale watakaomrithi wataendelea kuzingatia Umoja wa Afrika Mashariki. Hilo ni jambo muhimu sana kwa sababu nchi ya Kenya imenufaika kibiashara na kikazi kuliko nchi zingine zozote kutokana na Umoja wa Afrika Mashariki. Wakenya ndio wananawiri kila mahali. Ukienda Rwanda, Burundi, Uganda na Tanzania, ni Wakenya ambao wanafanya kazi huko. Kenya imepakana na nchi kubwa kuliko zote Afrika Mashariki. Tanzania ni kubwa kuliko Kenya, Uganda, Rwanda na Burundi pamoja katika hali ya kijiografia. Rais wa nchi hiyo akisema anaunga mkono kikamilifu Umoja wa Afrika Mashariki ni jambo ambalo lazima tusifu. Jambo la pili ni kwamba Rais Kikwete alisema sasa Kenya na Tanzania zimeanza kujenga miundo mbinu ambayo inaunganisha nchi zetu. Barabara ya Athi River- Namanga-Arusha ambayo waliokuwa Mawaziri wa Afrika Mashariki na hata Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale wameitumia mara nyingi, sasa ni barabara nzuri sana. Barabara hiyo ilijengwa na mkopo kutoka Japan. Tanzania walimaliza sehemu yao kwanza. Kenya, katika mbinu zake za kawaida za ufisadi, wakachelewa; sasa wanajaribu kumaliza barabara hiyo katika mji wa Namanga. Barabara ya Arusha-Moshi-Mwatate-Voi haitarahisisha tu uchukuzi kutoka Arusha hadi Voi, lakini pia itapanua biashara kwa wakaazi wa Arusha, Moshi na maeneo ya Kilimanjaro kutumia Bandari ya Mombasa. Hiyo ni biashara na manufaa kwa nchi zote mbili. Tatu, barabara kutoka Dar es Salaam-Tanga-Lungalunga-Diani-Mombasa, pia inafungua njia kubwa ya kuleta biashara kati ya miji ya Dar-es-Salaam na Mombasa. Bw. Spika wa Muda, Rais Kikwete pia alitaja kuuzwa kwa nishati kutoka Tanzania kuingia Kenya na Kenya kuingia Tanzania. Alitaja mji wa Sirare ambako unatoka, Namanga na Monduli. Hiyo ndio njia ambayo tunataka kuona tukiendesha uhusiano wetu jinsi ambavyo tumefanya na Ethiopia. Ethiopia wanatuuzia nishati katika mji wa Moyale ambao haukuwa na stima. Rais Kikwete pia alitaja mambo muhimu ya Katiba. Umeona jinsi mambo yanavyoenda katika kanda hii? Rais wa Uganda amekataa kuondoka ofisini kinyume na Katiba naye Rais wa Rwanda anajaribu kwenda njia hiyo. Rais Kikwete alituambia Bungeni kwamba yeye siku zake zinayoyoma, kura zitapigwa tarehe 25 Septemba, 2015 – mimi ni mmoja wa wale ambao tutaenda kuangalia jinsi kura zinavyopigwa – na baada The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Asante sana, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Nasimama kuiunga mkono Hoja hii ambayo inahusu Hotuba ya Rais wa Tanzania alitutolea sisi kama viongozi wa Bunge la Seneti na wale wa Bunge la Kitaifa. Furaha yangu ni kwamba wakati Rais wa Tanzania alipokuwa akitoa Hotuba yake, Wakenya wote walikuwa wakisikia hiyo habari. Ilikuwa funzo kubwa kwa wale wanaochochea demokrasia kusikia Rais akisema amekubaliana na maagizo yaliyoko. Katiba ya Tanzania haimrusu kuwa rais zaidi ya miaka kumi. Ninamshukuru Rais Kikwete na ningependa hii iwe funzo sio tu kwa Wakenya bali kwa Waafrika kwa jumla. Bw. Spika wa Muda, mtu kuwa rais ni nafasi kubwa ambayo marais wa Afrika wametumia kupora mali ya umma. Viongozi, na sitazungumzia hao viongozi---
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): The Serjeant-at-Arms, what is happening with the broadcasting? Are you sabotaging Sen (Dr.) Khalwale’s presentation or what is it? Or you are not happy with Kiswahili?
Asante sana, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Nilikuwa nimesema ya kwamba viongozi wa Afrika wametumia nafasi zao kupora mali ya umma. Ningependa The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, je unauhakika kwamba Naibu wa Rais hahitaji maombi?
Bw. Spika wa Muda, hayo ni maoni yangu. Hatujui kama ICC wanaruhusu matamshi ya maombi kutumika kortini. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, sasa ni wakati wako na tafadhali zungumza kwa Lugha ya Kiswahili. Je, unahoja ya nidhamu Sen. Okong’o?
Hoja ya nidhamu, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Nashangazwa na runinga yetu hapa. Ni hujuma au nini?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Nimearifiwa kwamba kosa lipo hapa ndani ya Seneti tu lakini tunapeperushwa nchini kote sasa hivi.
Bw. Spika wa Muda, nakushukuru kwa kunipa fursa hii. Kwanza, ningependa kumshukuru Rais wa Tanzania kwa ziara aliyofanya humu nchini. Pia, namshukuru kwa usaidizi aliyoipa nchi yetu ya Kenya wakati wa PEV mwaka wa 2007/2008. Usaidizi aliotupa hauwezi kulinganishwa na pesa. Pili, naitakia Tanzania mema wakati huo ambao wanajitayarisha kufanya uchaguzi mkuu. Nawaombea wawe na uchaguzi mwema bila tashwishi yoyote ili tuweze kuendelea kufanya kazi pamoja. Rais wa Jamhuri ya Tanzania alizungumzia biashara kati ya Taifa letu la Kenya na Tanzania. Bidhaa za Kenya zinazosafirishwa Tanzania zinagharimu US$ 300 milioni. Tukilinganisha na bidhaa zinazosafirishwa Uganda kutoka Kenya zinagharimu US$7 million. Tanzania ina idadi kubwa ya watu. Kwa hivyo, inatupa soko kubwa ya bidhaa zetu ikilinganishwa na Uganda. Bw. Spika wa Muda, nachukuwa fursa hii kuhimiza nchi za Kenya, Tanzani na Uganda kushirikiana kibiashara ili zinawiri na kufaidi wananchi wa nchi hizi tatu. Pia, ningependa kuwahimiza viongozi wa mataifa ya Afrika Mashariki wawe wakitembeleana wakiwa katika uongozi na kupeana hotuba katika Bunge na kuarifu mataifa yote kuhusu miradi wanayoendeleza. Pia, itakuwa mfano mzuri kwa viongozi wa mataifa ya Afrika Masharaki kuona ya kwamba wanatii sheria za nchi zao. Hivi sasa, kuna mjadala kuhusu kipindi cha uongozi kwamba rais anapaswa kutawala kwa muda wa miaka kumi tu ili demokrasia idumu katika mataifa yetu. Kwa hivyo, nampongeza Rais wa Jamhuri ya The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Nitampa nafasi Seneta wa Busia, Sen. Wako, ambaye amenidokezea kwamba atazungumza Kiswahili sanifu.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will speak in English according to Standing Order No.81. I will start and complete my contribution in English.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Una haki kuzumgumza Kiingereza. Hatukupitishwa Hoja kwamba lazima uongee Kiswahili. Hata hivyo, lilikuwa wazo la wengi kwamba leo tumshukuru Rais wa Jamhuri ya Tanzania kwa Lugha ya Kiswahili. Unaruhusiwa kuzungumza kwa Kiingereza kama moyo wako unataka uongee kwa lugha ya kigeni.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will speak in English following the example of H.E. President (Dr.) Kikwete who first addressed us in English. If there will be time, I will then speak in Kiswahili. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I support this Motion of Thanks to the Address by the President of United Republic of Tanzania, H.E. (Dr.) Jakaya Kikwete. That was the first time that a head of state of a neighbouring country---
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You have 15 minutes as the Chairman of the relevant Committee.
That was the first time that a head of state of a neighbouring country gave an Address in the National Assembly. I thank H.E. President Kenyatta for having invited H.E. President (Dr.) Kikwete to deliver that Address. As you know, our relationship with Tanzania has not been all that rosy since Independence. You may recall that at Independence, we took the capitalists route through Sessional Paper No.10 about African Socialism and its application to Development in Kenya, Tanzania took Ujamaa (Socialism) while Uganda took the Common Man’s Charter which had been drafted by Dr. Milton Obote, the former President of Uganda. Since that time, there were ideological differences. We looked to the West while Tanzania looked to the East. Therefore, that misunderstanding has always coloured our relationship since the formation of the original East African Community (EAC) until it collapsed and even when it was revived under the East African Community (EAC). The fears and bad feelings have been there. That is why I praise H.E. President (Dr.) Kikwete. If his Address is going to change our relationship for the better, then, it was worth being. I hope that his successor – he assured as that no Tanzanian can ever wish bad relationship with Kenya – will put our relationship on a very good footing. In fact, in many respect, I would have wished the President to have made that Address at the beginning of his 10 year rule. As you know, even under the current EAC, they have always been suspicious that, maybe, we are going slowly towards integration; whether economic or political. Kenya The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Hoja ya Nidhamu, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Nimesikia Seneta mwenzangu akitaja kwa lugha ya Kimombo “diminishing whatever.” Hiyo inamaanisha nini?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Nidhamu. Sidhani kwamba lazima Seneta afafanue maana ya kila msamiati. Pengine itakuwa bora utafute Kamusi ili uangalie maana ya misamiati hiyo au tafsiri ya maneno yanayosemwa. Naomba tumwache aendelee. Pengine ungemsikiliza vizuri, labda ungepata maana kutokana na mchango wake. Kwa hivyo, naomba utulie na umsikilize kwa sababu huenda ana jambo la kusema. Si nidhamu kumwambia atumie Kamusi kukueleza maana ya kila neno la Kimombo analotumia.
Bw. Spika wa Muda, sentensi yake haikuwa kamilifu. Haina maana kuzungumzia kitu kisichokamilifu. Alikuwa anatumia lugha ya Kimombo akasema “diminishing whatever.” Sikuelewa hiyo inamaanisha nini. Siyo kwamba sielewi Kimombo lakini sentensi hiyo haikuwa kamilifu. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Wako, umesikia malalamishi. Jaribu kutumia sentensi zilizo kamilifu. Umesema kuwa utazungumza kwa lugha ya Kimombo. Kwa hivyo, tumia sentensi zilizo kamilifu.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, English is an official language of Parliament. Therefore, I assume that people elected here understand simple English words.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Nidhamu. Kila Seneta hapa ana haki ya kumwomba Spika kumtaka Seneta afafanue kile anachosema. Sasa, natoa amri kwamba ufafanue kile ulichosema.
Okay, I will explain. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, when it comes to the issues of East African integration, I hope that Tanzania will now move forward taking into account the spirit of the Speech of H.E. President (Dr.) Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete on East Africa integration. On bilateral relationships which in a sense also affect the issues of the integration of East Africa, when we were going round, one of the greatest fears of Tanzanians about Kenyans, is if we integrated immediately, Kenyans are so aggressive whether it is in trade, commerce or anything that they are doing. They said Kenyans are so aggressive that they will overwhelm the Tanzanians who are more humble in these issues. They thought that we should give them time to come to that level where they can also be almost as aggressive as Kenyans on matters of commerce and industry. That is why they were dragging their feet a bit on integration issues. Secondly, they talked of Kenyans as land grabbers and they thought that we, Kenyans, have grabbed all the land. When we look yonder across the border, you see a lot of land and they felt that Kenyans will---
On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, Sir, have you heard the Senator purporting to say that Kenyans are called land grabbers? Is it something confirmed or they are assertions of our neighbours?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Nidhamu Seneta Okong’o. Nakusihi usikize kwa makini sana. Yeye, amejaribu kufafanua kile ambacho anafikiria kwamba Watanzania walikuwa wanafikiria ni desturi ya Wakenya. Hakusema Wakenya wako hivyo. Ni fikira tu. Endelea Seneta Wako.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I also understand Kiswahili. That is what they felt at that time. Their approach to the issues of moving fast towards a federation was a bit slow because they wanted time to catch up with the Kenyans. Through the East African Community, I was at a meeting in Arusha when H.E. President (Dr.) Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete confirmed for the first time and told Tanzanians that the fear they had about Kenyans should no longer be there because for the first time, Tanzanians had imported to Kenya more than Kenya had exported to Tanzania. Throughout this period, Kenyan has been exporting to Tanzania far much more than Tanzania was exporting to Kenya. For the first time, we did that and from the recent figures that he gave, Tanzania’s exports to Kenya during the period that he mentioned, 2013/2015, was US$50million worth of goods but Kenya’s exports to Tanzania was US$30million. He was telling Tanzanians that the benefits of the East Africa integration The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage):Nidhamu. Sasa kila Seneta ataongea kwa dakika nane. Seneta Wako usilalamike kwa sababu umepewa dakika kumi na tano.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to thank you very much for recognizing the Senator for Laikipia to say something on this issue. History is what informs the future. If you look at our history even before Independence, you would see how the Tanzanians were colonized and how the colonisers took the country to be. You can also know how Kenya was colonized to the point where The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, unfortunately I have to speak in English to follow the example of my senior, Sen. Wako. That is because there are one or two things I wanted to say which I would like to emphasize. It was great to have the President of Tanzania visit Kenya on a state visit and also to address a Joint Sitting of Parliament. The fact that it was President Kikwete addressing the Joint Sitting of the Kenyan Parliament was indeed welcome. President Kikwete stands different from the other Presidents in the region in many ways. First, when President Kikwete was here he did not indulge himself in internal politics. It was not obvious to the Kenyan public that he was on any particular political mission. I do not need to remind you that there have been other heads of state from the region when they come to Kenya, it is quite clear that they are participating in the internal politics of the country. President Kikwete held himself in the highest level of dignity by talking to Kenyans without distinction. The only thing that went missing was the fact that he was not given an opportunity to meet the leadership of the Kenyan Opposition which, I think should be a standard rule. When a leader is on a state visit, we should be tolerant and be prepared to give visitors who come to our country a chance to talk to people from all sides of the political divide. I think we missed a chance to demonstrate the new Kenya that we are striving to build. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have gone through the Speech of President Kikwete as given to us and, of course, I listened to him. One distinctive thing that I collected was that he avoided talking about the International Criminal Court (ICC). The position of President Kikwete and the United Republic of Tanzania on the question of ICC is quite clear and very different from many other countries which were trying to shift their position. He did not try to please us by pretending about change of position in terms of the ICC, which by all intents and purposes is part and parcel of the law of Kenya. The ICC is part of the Kenyan Judiciary –a Kenyan court which has been domesticated not just by the Constitution, but by the International Crimes Act which was piloted through Parliament by the former Attorney General (AG) emeritus, together with the former Minister for Internal Security – may the Lord rest his soul in peace – the late (Prof.) George Saitoti. Having said that, the truth shall set all of us free. I am saying this because the President of the United Republic of Tanzania avoided this, but I think in his silence, he was speaking volumes. I would advise our Kenyan brothers that together we can build a better country by being committed to the truth and the law. I cannot sit down without saying that I am sure if the leader of the Opposition in terms of political parties, former Prime Minister, Raila Odinga, was asked to give evidence at The Hague on the basis of what he knows and what is relevant to the case, there would be no problems about it. This is because it would be a matter that is guided by the law and principles of international justice. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, whether we like it or not, the people who are responsible for the evidence which is now being adduced before the ICC, were people who were in charge of the intelligence during the Grand Coalition Government. If you think I am lying, the records of the minutes of the Security Council at the national and the various county and provincial levels will show. This is what constituted the basic The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Bw. Spika wa Muda, nashukuru kwa kunipa fursa hii nichangie Hoja hii kutokana na Hotuba ya Rais wa nchi jirani ya Tanzania, Mhe. (Dkt.) Jakaya Kikwete, katika Bunge la Kenya. Nampongeza Rais huyo kwa unyenyekevu na uzalendo wake kwa Jumuia ya Afrika Mashariki. Rais Kikwete amefuata nyayo za waliomtangulia; Mwalimu Kambarage Nyerere, Ali Hassan Mwinyi na Benjamin Mkapa kwa kuleta utangamano wa Tanzania na mataifa mengine ya Afrika Mashariki. Rais Kikwete alizungumzia maswala ya uwekezaji katika Tanzania. Ningependa kuyatilia mkazo mawazo ya Seneta wa Kaunti ya Kakamega, (Dkt.) Khalwale kwamba Wakenya wana nafasi nzuri ya kuekeza Tanzania katika sekta ya elimu, viwanda na hospitali. Tanzania walipokuwa na mfumo wa ujamaa, walibaki nyuma kwa muda mrefu. Wakati huu, wanafuata mfumo wetu na watapiga hatua ya kimaendeleo. Mwalimu Nyerere aliwaelezea Watanzania kwamba wakitaka kutembea Ulaya, wasiende mbali sana, lakini waje hapa Nairobi. Hata hivyo, Tanzania imeendelezwa kiuchumi sana na viongozi waliokuja baada ya Mwalimu Nyerere. Bw. Spika wa Muda, kuna vizuizi ambavyo vilisababisha kusambaratika kwa Jumuia ya Afrika Mashariki mwaka wa 1978. Ikiwa tunataka utangamano, lazima wataalamu wanashughulikie maswala yaliyosababisha kutibuka kwa Jumuiya ya Afrika Mashariki ya mwaka wa 1978 ndiposa Jumuia ya Afrika Mashariki iimarike. Rais Kikwete alizunguzia kuhusu kusaidiana katika mambo ya kijasusi na ni muhimu sana lakini ningependa kuhimiza nchi ya Tanzania izingatie maswala ya haki za binadamu ili watu wanaoshikwa nchini humo wasidhulumiwe bila kufuata sheria. Rais Kikwete ambaye hatamu yake ya uongozi imeisha na ingawa hajazeeka, ameamua kung’atuka kisheria. Napendekeza kwamba wakati Katibu Mkuu wa Umoja wa Mataifa kung’atuka uongozi, naomba kwamba tumpendekeze Mhe. (Dkt.) Kikwete kuchukua cheo hicho. Bw. Spika wa Muda, kumekuwa na tashwishi katika utangamano. Kwa mfano, Kenya, Uganda na Rwanda karibu zitenge Tanzania. Kwa vile Rais alisema kuwa yuko tayari kuimarisha Muungano wa Jumuiya, basi sisi tuna nafasi nzuri katika uwekezaji kwa sababu Watanzania ni ndugu zetu. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Ninashukuru sana kwa nafasi hii, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Nimesikiza waheshimiwa waliozungumza na walioshindwa kuzungumza Kiswahili. Niligundua kwamba umoja wa taifa hili uko mbali. Hii ni kwa sababu kitu kimoja kinachounganisha watu ni lugha ambayo wanatumia. Tumekuwa tukitumia Kiingereza hadi maeneo ya kata. Utapata mtu anaongea na wananchi kwa dakika tano au kumi kwa lugha ya kigeni. Wananchi wataelewa asilimia mbili tu ya maneno yaliyosemwa. Hawataelewa asilimia 98 ya yaliyosema. Natoa mwito kwamba tukienzi Kiswahili kwa sababu Kiswahili kimeunganisha nchi ya Tanzania. Kiongozi yeyote anayekwenda mashinani hueleweka kila anapozungumza katika mkutano. Ni jambo muhimu kuwa tujifunze na kukikuza Kiswahili ili kituunganishe sisi kama Wakenya. Ni aibu kubwa sana katika taifa letu kwa sababu katika sehemu fulani za nchi yetu, hakuna mtu anayejali kama unaelewa yale wanayosema. Utakuta watu wanazungumza kwa lugha ya mama kuanzia mwanzo hadi mwisho. Bw. Spika wa Muda, aliyekuwa Rais wa Tanzania, Mhe. Nyerere, alikuza Kiswahili na kuwaunganisha Watanzania. Nakumbuka nikisikiza nyimbo za Shirikisho la Afrika zikiimbwa. Walioleta Shirikisho hilo ni hayati Mzee Jomo Kenyatta, Nyerere na Obote. Wakati huo, tulizungumza kama nchi moja ya Afrika Mashariki. Hata hivyo, juzi tulishuhudia msukosuko uliohusisha Tanzania na Kenya na kusababisha mipaka yetu kufungwa. Haingewezekana Tanzania na Kenya kufikia mahali ziko katika mambo ya biashara wakati mpaka ulikuwa umefungwa. Kwa hivyo, hotuba yaliyotolewa na Mhe. Rais (Dr.) Kikwete ya kutuweka pamoja kama ndugu ni muhimu. Bw. Spika wa Muda, Rais mwenyewe alisema kwamba Wakenya ni nambari mbili kati ya wawekezaji katika nchi ya Tanzania. Sisi ni nambari moja katika Bara la Afrika. Hutasikia Wakenya wanaofanya kazi huko wamehusika katika wizi, rushwa au magendo kwa sababu wanaheshimika sana. Daktari mzuri wa kufanya kazi Marekani anapatikana Kenya; mwalimu mzuri wa kufundisha Rwanda, anapatikana Kenya na dereva mzuri wa kufanya kazi Uganda anapatikana Kenya. Wakiwa huko, hao ndio tegemeo la nchi zao. Lakini ukija hapa kwetu nyumbani unashangaa na maneno kama vile; ‘huyu ni mwizi’, ‘huyu aliiba jana’, ‘usiguze huyu ni wetu’. Tunazuia wizi kwa misingi ya kikabila. Ikiwa jina lako ni ‘Ndung’u’ na umeshukiwa na wizi, unaona Kamau na wenzake nyuma yako. Ikiwa jina lako ni Mutiso ama Onyango, ni vivyo hivyo. Leo, Tanzania wanafanya uchaguzi mkuu. Uchaguzi unaoendelea Tanzania unawahusisha wapinzani Mhe. Magufuli na Mhe. Lowassa. Mhe. Lowassa alikuwa Waziri Mkuu nchini Tanzania lakini kwa kutajwa tu na kudhaniwa, ila si kupatikana, ya kwamba alihusika na magendo, hakupewa tiketi ya uwaniaji na Chama Cha Mapinduzi (CCM) maanake CCM. Hii kwa sababu inazingatia uwazi na utawala wa nidhamu. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Nidhamu kidogo, Seneta. Si vizuri kuongea kuhusu sera za nchi jirani
Bw. Spika wa muda, nakubaliana nawe lakini nilikuwa tu natoa uwazi kwamba kutokana na Hotuba ya Rais Kikwete, alitaka tuungane kama Watanzania. Kwa hivyo, kama tutakubalike na mataifa mengine, ni lazima tutembee katika misingi ya usafi na kufanya mambo yanayolingana na uongozi unaotakiwa. Taifa letu la Kenya, tukiungana na wenzetu na kufanya kazi nao, ni lazima tuhakikishe tunaheshimiwa kule nje. Ndugu yangu, Sen. G.G. Kariuki, amesema jambo la maana sana ya kwamba, si kwamba rais akiwa wa kabila fulani, kabila hilo litakuwa salama. Ni lazima Wakenya walindwe na sheria zilizoko. Leo hii, tumepoteza mwelekeo. Nimewasihi ndugu zangu wa mrengo wa Jubilee waepukane na uvumi wanaoueneza kila pembe ya nchi hii wakidai; “Raila kafanya haya na huyu kafanya haya”. Wao wanafikiri watammaliza mtu fulani kisiasa. Chuki wanayoiendesha nchini itamaliza kesho yetu. Mimi nlikuwa kiranja wa Bunge la Kumi. Ninafahamu wazi kwamba Mhe. Raila hangeweza kumtia Mhe. Ruto katika mashaka. Mhe. Ruto alikuwa rafiki wake wa karibu sana na alikuwa anamsaidia kuongoza chama. Hawa viongozi wa Jubilee wanadhani Wakenya watakuwa vipofu tu mara moja, na kusahau yaliyotokea kwa kusema Mhe. Raila Amolo Odinga alihusika kumsingizia Mhe. Naibu Rais. Lazima tuongee ukweli. Watanzania hawawezi kuongea kama sisi. Shida ya leo ni watu wawili katika taifa letu---
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Nidhamu! Nina maombi ya wazungumzaji watatu; Sen. Omar, Sen. M. Kajwang’ na Sen. Mositet. Tuna dakika saba na lazima tupate jibu kutoka kwa mpendekezaji wa Hoja hii. Kwa hivyo, nitawapa dakika mbili kila mmoja.
Bw. Spika wa Muda. Hotuba ya Rais wa Tanzania, (Dkt.) Kikwete, ilikuwa nzuri kwa sababu ilikuja wakati ambao anaenda kustaafu. Swala kubwa sana alionyesha ni kwamba anatii Katiba ya nchi yake, anajali maslahi ya wenyeji wa Jumuiya ya Afrika Mashariki na pia ana mapenzi na maono mazuri. Lakini zaidi, alionyesha kwamba hana tamaa ya utawala na anatii Katiba yao. Tuna nchi za Jumuiya ya Afrika Mashariki kama vile Burundi, Rwanda na Uganda ambako marais wao wanafanya kila wawezalo kubadilisha Katiba ili waendelee kutawala. Ni vizuri wajue kwamba wakati tu utafika wang’atuke na wengine waingie mamlakani. Bw. Spika wa Muda, kaunti yangu inapakana na nchi ya Tanzania na hata kwa wale ambao wanagombea uongozi kule, sisi tunawatakia kila la heri. Tungetaka Bw. Lowassa ashinde na hata mimi niweze kusema ndugu ya babangu anaishi Tanzania na tunatenganishwa na mipaka ambayo iliwekwa na Wazungu lakini tukienda kule, tuko nyumbani.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Nidhamu.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I wanted to contribute in sheng but I studied your demeanour and I knew I will be in trouble for misdeamenour because The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Asante sana kwa fursa hii, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Vile ninatamatisha Hoja hili, ningependa kuzungumzia matatu. Historia yetu na Tanzania ikiwemo ile historia ya former Sultan of Zanzibar. Hilo nitalizungumzia siku nyingine. Pili, ni sera ya washiriki wa Afrika Mashariki kujaribu kuitenga Tanzania. Mwisho, ningependa kuzungumza juu ya ile hofu ambayo Rais Kikwete aligusia kuwa Bw. Magufuli akiwa Rais, kwa vile ana uhusiano na ushirikiano na mtu fulani ambaye ni kiongozi katika maswala ya upinzani hapa, huenda Tanzania ikabadilisha sera zao. Hiyo ni hofu ya kitoto. Nakumbuka Rais Kikwete alisema hakuna wajinga kama hao Tanzania. Mimi pia, naomba Kenya tusiwe na wajinga kama hao wa kufikiria mambo madogo kama haya. Watu wako na uhusiano na urafiki kabla, ndani na baada ya siasa. Hiyo haimanishi itabidilisha sera. Sisi kama Wakenya tushirikiane tuhakikishe kwamba tumekumbatia Tanzania kwa sababu tuna mengi yanatuleta pamoja kuliko yale ambayo yanatutenganisha. Nimesikia eti Watanzania ni watu wapole na wakuomba radhi na sisi Wakenya ni mabepari, watu wa nguvu zaidi. Kila mtu ana uzuri na ubaya wake. Sisi tunayaangalia yale mazuri na ule utulivu na utaratibu wa Watanzania. Ni jambo ambalo lazima tulitie ndani ya roho zetu. Huu ubepari wetu umetufikisha wapi sasa? Watu wamefisadi nchi nzima, wakaiba shamba tangu uanzilishi wa taifa hili. Watu waliiba mashamba katika taifa hili wakati wa mwanzilishi wa taifa hili,wanaiba katika kaunti zetu.Waanzilishi wa taifa letu la Kenya ndio matajiri zaidi baada ya vizazi vitatu.Waanzilishi wa kaunti zetu watakuwa zaidi kutokana na wizi wanaouendeleza. Kwa hivyo, tufuate mikakati na msimamao wa Tanzania wa kujua ukweli na usawa katika kuhakikisha kwamba tunaheshimu mali ya wananchi wa taifa hili. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker Sir, for giving me this time to move The Office of The county Attorney Bill, (Senate Bill No.37 of 2014) be read a Second Time. This Bill is a very important Bill. As you know, any Government whether at national or count level has to depend on the rule of law. The justification of any Government is to maintain law, order and peace. This must follow the rule of law---
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage: Nidhamu! Sen. Wako utakuwa na muda dakika 58, za kupendekeza Mswada wako. Tumefika kikomo cha kazi ya leo. Kwa hivyo, sina budi kuahirisha kikao cha leo hadi kesho tarehe 14th Oktoba, 2015, adhuhuri 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.40 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.