Hon. Senators, I wish to report to the Senate that pursuant to Standing Order No.40 (3) and (4), I have received the following Message from the Speaker of the National Assembly regarding the passage by the Assembly of the Forest Conservation and Management Bill (National Assembly Bill No.49 of 2015). Pursuant to Standing Order No.41 (1) and Standing Order No.142 of the National Assembly Standing Orders, I hereby convey the following Message from the National Assembly:- “THAT, whereas the Forest Conservation and Management Bill (National Assembly Bill No.49 of 2015) was published by the Kenya Gazette Supplement N0.133 on 11th August, 2015 to give effect to the provisions of Article 69 of the Constitution, with regard to conservation and management of forest resources and to repeal the Forest Act 2005; And whereas the National Assembly considered and passed the said Bill on Thursday, 17th March 2016 with amendments in the form attached hereto; Now, therefore, in accordance with the provisions of Article110 (4) of the Constitution and Standing Order No.142 of the National Assembly Standing Orders, I hereby refer the said Bill to the Senate for consideration.” Hon. Senators, Standing Order No.148 requires that a Bill that originates in the National Assembly be proceeded with by the Senate in the same manner as a Bill introduced in the Senate by way of First Reading, in accordance with Standing Order No.129. I, therefore, direct that The Forest Conservation and Management Bill (National The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Hon. Senators, pursuant to Standing Order Nos. 220 (1) (a) and Standing Order No. 225 (2) (b), I hereby report to the Senate that a Petition has been submitted through the Clerk by Mr. John Mwendwa regarding the alleged unprocedural appointment of the Chairperson of the Board of the Kenya Medical Research Institute (KEMRI). In summary the petitioner states:- (a) That the Mwongozo Code of Governance for State corporations sets out, among others, the qualifications that a person must meet to be considered for appointment as a chairperson of a board of a State corporation. (b) That among these requirements are that such person- (i) must not have served in the same entity/corporation as an employee in the five years preceding such appointments; (ii) must have served in the position of senior management for a period of at least six years; and, (iii) must not be in the service of the national Government or any of the county governments or any other statutory body. (c) That on 11th July, 2014, Dr. Lillian A. Osamong was appointed and continues to serve as the Chairperson of the Board of Directors of KEMRI. (d) That the said appointment was unprocedural and in contravention of the Mwongozo Code of Governance for State corporations for reasons that- (i) the said Chairperson was an employee of KEMRI where she served as a research officer until March, 2014 when she resigned to be appointed three months later as the Board Chairperson; (ii) the said Chairperson had not served in a position of senior management prior to her appointment as the Board Chairperson; and, (iii) the said Chairperson is a fulltime lecturer and employee at Moi University, which is a State corporation. The petitioner, therefore, prays that the Senate investigates this matter and makes appropriate recommendation on how the issue may be addressed. Hon. Senators, pursuant to Standing Order No.226, I shall now allow comments, observations or clarifications in relation to the Petition for not more than 30 minutes. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to support that Petition, its request and demand because the Kenya Medical Research Institute (KEMRI) is a very important institution in this country and over the last two years, that institution has had a lot of problems. I know that KEMRI has an establishment in Kisumu County, both in the city and in the outskirts where they have operations together with the Centre for Disease Control (CDC). Due to the problems in KEMRI, about 2000 people have been laid off and this has adversely affected the economy of Kisumu County particularly the City of Kisumu. Therefore, the mismanagement and mis-happenings in KEMRI should be properly investigated to find out why and where the management has not been effective. What the petitioner prays for is to establish a proper process, transparent and accountable, of elevating persons to positions of responsibility so that when they have that position, they can rise to the occasion and not to use those positions and sinecures for political rewards. I beg to support.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am of the view that the petitioner is not doing justice due to the fact that, in spite of the problem elaborated by my colleague, Professor- --- I think being a chairman is not a permanent employment and therefore to deny somebody a chance simply because he or she is working somewhere else--- The fact that she has worked there and has the experience, I feel it is not fair to remove her from that job of chairperson.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, whereas I sympathize and accept the Petition to the Senate, the reasons that were enumerated are going to be considered. Being a former employee of the institution is not a good reason to deny this individual the opportunity to work in this institution. In fact, it is an answer to this institution because the employee who has been there has insight on the working conditions of this institution. Being a full-time lecturer in Moi University is a plus and a big advantage for this individual. It is like many other Kenyans who are in positions of chairperson but they are lecturers in various universities in this country. One important aspect is that this person is a lady, considering gender, we should consider and support this individual to run and clean up the mess in this institution. This is a case where both sides of the coin must be examined and this Kenyan be given an opportunity to serve.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank the citizen who has raised this issue. There are some regulations that are supposed to be followed by Government agencies particularly in parastatals. If it is true that if someone resigns and is appointed after three months, is it solicited or a priori? I think it is good to look at this petition and its merits. Mr. Speaker, Sir, almost two years ago, the Government passed a law whereby nobody is allowed to sit in a board if he or she is working with another Government agency. If you are moving from a university to a parastatal, there is a provision for that by science-based institutions and also in the Ministries of Education and Health. We need to look at the merits carefully so that we do not bring disgruntlement in the systems operating with parastatals. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me also take this opportunity to support the Petition. As long as it has complied with constitutional provisions, that is a matter which needs to be interrogated. We are aware that the KEMRI is facing many problems including misappropriation of funds and so on. The other day, we saw the Ministry of Interior and National Coordination purporting to take the military in that area. Through this kind of petition, we might have some opening to scrutinize matters going on at the KEMRI.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is very difficult for one to support the decision of Jubilee. Considering the name of this lady, Dr. Lilian Osamong, it sounds that it could be a competent professional born either in Pokot or Teso. For her to have been lucky enough to get a job through a Government that knows only two tribes, we must support her to stay on that job. She has no other way of getting it. I, therefore, wish to reluctantly persuade the House that when the Committee takes up this matter, they should allow Dr. Lilian Osamong to take the job and the Government to regularize it because that is the only way people from minority communities can benefit in this country.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, while I support the constitutional right of that petitioner to petition, I want to confirm that the lady comes from Teso. This is one of the minority communities in this country. Considering the gender, I wish to say that this is an immensely qualified person. I am not sure whether these “mwongozo” regulations have gone through the proper scrutiny and adoption by the National Assembly and the Senate. We might be subjecting some of these public servants to regulations that have not been properly dealt with. Therefore, I support the Petition because the petitioner has the constitutional right but I hope the Committee will consider the constitutional requirement of minorities in the Government.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is an interesting issue but at the same time, it is a very simple and straightforward matter. It does not concern what Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has raised. It is either in conformity with the law or not. As Sen. Sang says, the regulations are there to bar or allow somebody to hold a certain position. As lawmakers, we must make sure that the law is followed and obeyed. This is an issue that will easily be laid before the relevant Committee. It is an interesting Petition because the petitioner has clearly set out the law for the relevant Committee to determine whether any law has been breached and whether the qualified lady should continue or should not continue holding that position.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have a feeling that this Petition is incompetent to the extent that it is an assault on affirmative action on two respects. Although women are 51 per cent of the population, they suffer immense prejudices and discrimination at the hands of men. More importantly, this lady comes from a minority community. We must laud her for the success in academia to the level where she is. Like the distinguished Senator for Nandi has said, this Petition should trigger the Committee to investigate and scrutinize the legality and competence of the
code of governance for State corporations. In many countries, persons who head institutions such as these must be persons in academia. This is a research-based institution. Talk of competence; how many people The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Sen. Wetangula. You are asking the Committee to do a job not meant for it.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Minority Leader in order to subvert the intention of the Petition away from its particulars? He has moved completely to another issue.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, you can go to court with a charge and the court can substitute it and convict you of either an aggravated offence or a lesser one.
Is that the case? Anyway, for purposes of this Petition, the Senate Minority Leader was completely out of order. What the Committee is supposed to do is to investigate the allegations. They should not manufacture theirs.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think the Petition is straightforward. The petitioner wants us to look at the procedure and whether it was followed or not. I think it would be wrong for the Members of this House to argue in any other manner other than the Committee to determine the constitutionality of this appointment. Whether a person is a minority or not, the question is about whether the law was followed. With regard to gender, I do not necessarily agree with the Senator for Kakamega. The name can be that but the lady could be married into those communities you have mentioned.
Order, Sen. Billow! The purpose of these interventions is to help the Committee. Therefore, we should not be really at pains to correct each other because Sen. Sang has confirmed the matter to us. It is no longer a question of speculation. I would like us to conclude on this matter.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to congratulate the lady who has been appointed because she is a woman of substance from a minority community which has been marginalized for the last 50 years. Very few women have been beneficiaries of such appointments in the past from that community. We all know that the Jubilee Government is serious on the issue of affirmative action. Therefore, it is so unfair for us to bring The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is Sen. Elachi in order to input improper motive on any petition that may be brought here yet some may have some merit? She says any lady appointed to a key position in the Government should not be queried.
Order, Sen. Elachi! I have not given you an opportunity to respond.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to laud this petition because it gives a chance for organizations to look at regulations and the security that goes therein. Most of the processes and regulations are held within the institutions. Therefore, when institutions flout those regulations, it is difficult for outsiders to get into the nitty gritty of that process. Petitions give a fantastic opportunity to tackle such issues. I hope that this process will be replicated in the counties. With regard to personnel issues, ethnicity and nepotism is rampant in the counties. Therefore, such petitions should be encouraged because they will help us to effectively do our oversight role.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a very straight forward issue because it is a matter of law. We, as a House, are mandated to ensure that there is rule of law. We will be setting a bad precedence if we receive such a petition and then reduce our arguments to the level of asking ourselves whether an appointee is from a minority community, marginalized or a woman. The question that we should be asking is whether the law was followed in her appointment. We have a good Constitution, but the problem is that we do not want to follow it. The mandate of the relevant Committee should be to inquire whether the law was followed.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, unless this appointee had been involved in mismanagement of the institution, she deserves to the appointment by the mere fact that she comes from a minority community. It is sad that the petitioner thinks that the minority community should be suppressed further. It is a good move to consider people from minority communities. There are minority communities in this country, including mine; the Sabaots, who since Independence have never been appointed as Ministers, ambassadors, chairpersons of organizations, leave alone managing directors of any parastatal yet they are qualified. An advertisement was made recently for the post of the Managing Director of the Kenya Seed Company and it appears that the Sabaots will be sidelined yet some have applied and are qualified. The Constitution says that---
What is it, Sen. Sang?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is Sen. Ndiema in order to suggest that people from his community have never received any serious appointment like that of chairpersons to parastatals while, as a matter of fact, I know this Government has appointed three chairpersons and several directors from the Sabaot Community? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I said, the recent events are in the right direction. I thank the Government for these recent appointments of people from my community. However, we are still waiting for appointments to the Cabinet, ambassadorial positions or heads of parastatals. Although I am complaining, my community is not even a minority because we are more than 500,000 in population.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I support the petition. When a lady is appointed to such a position, she should be scrutinized and given a clean bill of health. We do not want to see the kind of intimidation and harassment that many women in high positions have been subjected to in the past.
Order, Sen. Sijeny! Just because one is a woman does not mean that the outcome of scrutiny will always be a clean bill of health. Hon Senators, pursuant to the Standing Order No.227(1), the Petition stands committed to the relevant Standing Committee, which in this case, is the Committee on Health. In terms of Standing Order No.227(2), the Committee will be required in not more than 60 days from the time of reading the prayer to respond to the petitioner by way of a report addressed to the petitioner and laid on the Table of the Senate. Next Order!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Tuesday, 19th April 2016. Report of the Third Global Open Government Partnership (OGP) summit held in Mexico City, from 25th October to 1st November, 2015.
Where is the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations? REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS OF THE EAST AFRICAN LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Tuesday, 19th April, 2016:- Report of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations on the Reports and Resolutions of the East Africa Legislative Assembly (EALA), pursuant to Standing Order No.235.
The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, the Senate notes the Report of the Third Global Open Government Partnership (OGP) Summit held in Mexico City from 25th October to 1st November, 2015, laid on the Table of the House today, Tuesday, 19th April, 2016.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget.
Order! Sen. Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o, proceed.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget regarding the financing of Jaramogi Oginga Odinga Teaching and Referral Hospital in Kisumu County. In the Statement, the Chairperson should explain:- (1) Why the Jaramogi Oginga Odinga teaching and Referral Hospital has not been receiving its full conditional grants since 2013. (2) What the Government is doing to ensure that the hospital is properly financed to effectively deliver its services. STATUS OF IMPLEMENTATION OF SENATE RECOMMENDATIONS ON KENYA AIRWAYS
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you allow me, I would like to seek a second Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Roads and Transportation regarding Kenya Airways. The Chairperson should:- (1) Inform the House the progress made to date by the board of Kenya Airways in implementing the recommendations of the Senate Select Committee of Inquiry into the Affairs of Kenya Airways that was adopted by this House in November last year. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, finally, with your permission, I would also like to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Roads and Transportation regarding delayed public works at the Jaramogi Oginga Odinga Teaching and Referral Hospital in Kisumu County. In that Statement, the Chairperson should explain:- (1) Why there has been delay for over two years in implementing public works projects at the Jaramogi Oginga Odinga Teaching and Referral Hospital in Kisumu County. (2) Why the officers of the Public Works Department in Kisumu consistently fail to supervise the projects at the institution. KENYA’S PARTICIPATION IN OPEN GOVERNMENT PARTNERSHIP
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.45(2) to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations regarding Kenya’s participation in and commitment to the Open Government Partnership. In the Statement the Chairperson should: - (1) State measures taken by the Government of Kenya to comply with and implement the Open Government Declaration. (2) Explain whether Kenya has developed and adopted a country action plan on the Declaration. (3) Clarify whether Kenyans were consulted in coming up with the action plan, if any, and indicate whether in accordance with Article 35 of the Constitution, the plan is easily accessible. (4) State measures taken by the Government to ensure compliance and guarantee commitment to independent reporting mechanisms on the process towards realisation of the principles of the declaration. (5) State measures taken by the Government to ensure sustainability and continuity of Kenya’s membership to the Open Government Partnership, and, in the spirit of open governance, provide quantified data on information relating to spending by the two levels of Government, specifying what has been spent on essential public services and activities.
Where is the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will endeavour to issue the Statement in two weeks’ time. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
It is so ordered. Where is the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget on the Statement by Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this question seeks information regarding financing of a hospital which would come under the county government. The county leadership is busy with the conference on devolution this week. Therefore, I request for three weeks to get the response.
It is so ordered. Where is the Chairperson of the Committee on Roads and Transportation? Proceed, Sen. Sijeny.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I endeavour to issue the Statement in two weeks’ time in case Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o is not satisfied with the Statement which I will issue in a short while in response to the request by Sen. Leshore on the same issue.
Where is the Chairperson of the Committee on Roads and Transportation? This is in regard to Statement (c).
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I request for three weeks to enable me get a proper statement responding to all the issues raised.
W hy three weeks? The senator is not asking you to complete the project.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sure there will be many issues to inquire about. If I get it before then, I will notify Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o and the Rules and Business Committee (RBC).
Without any prior reason, let us attempt to issue it in two weeks’ time. What is it, Sen. Sang?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o raised a serious concern and a compliant with regard to what he termed as delay in the Speaker’s Office to process his request for statements. Am I in order to request a confirmation that these were the statements that Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o had sought and that the Speaker’s Office purportedly delayed? Can Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyongo confirm this?
Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyongo, did you do so?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, yes, these are the statements that I requested on 24th March, 2016, and I am happy that today, we have dispensed with them.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. In order to put Sen. Sang on the right track, I explained the issue to Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o. The blame was not on the Speaker’s Office. The requests had been approved immediately and promptly by the Speaker but they have been lying somewhere else. Although Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o had said that the delay was in the Speaker’s Office, I explained to him and I believe he accepted it. The stamp and the date of approval were clear that the Speaker had acted promptly in the approval of those statements.
It ends there, but I was equally appalled by the accusations because I was watching the proceedings. We take the statements requests seriously and we normally approve them the same day. Sometimes, we approve on the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, my request was for your intervention. I was not apportioning blame. The Deputy Speaker assured me and gave me the information immediately that, in future, the office will ensure that such requests do not lie somewhere after the action by the Speaker. I accepted his explanation. I hope that the offices that are letting your office down will stand up and run. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No. 45 (2) (b), I seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations regarding the denial of a visa to Mr. Josephat Kimemia who is a person living with disability to travel to China. In the Statement, the Chairperson should state whether he is aware that Mr. Josephat Kimemia who is a person living with disability and a senior officer in Nakuru County Government, was denied a visa to travel to China. The Chairperson should explain if the reasons for Mr. Kimemia being denied a visa were connected to his disability status. The Chairperson should enumerate the steps taken by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Trade to address the matter in order to ensure that in matters of international travel, persons living with disabilities are accorded equal treatment like other Kenyans.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am officially aware because I read about it in the newspapers. The questions asked are important and valid. Therefore, I will answer them in the next two weeks.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is noted. SIGN LANGUAGE INTERPRETATION DURING RELEASE OF NATIONAL EXAMINATION RESULTS
Mr. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order 45 (2) (b), I seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Education regarding sign language interpretation during release of the national examinations results. In the Statement, the Chairperson should state:- 1. Why the Ministry of Education has failed to provide sign language interpreters during the release of the Kenya Certificate of Primary Education (KCPE) and Kenya Certificate of Secondary Education (KCSE) national examinations results. 2. What measures the Ministry has put in place to ensure sign language interpreters are available during the release of future KCPE and KCSE results. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Chair is not present in the House but as a Committee, we undertake to work hard and bring the answer in two weeks’ time. DISBURSEMENT OF FREE PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION FUNDS TO LEARNERS WITH DISABILITIES
Mr. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order 45 (2) (b), I seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Education regarding the disbursement of free primary and secondary education funds for learners with disabilities. In the Statement, the Chairperson should state:- 1. Why the Government has delayed to release free primary and secondary funds meant for learners with disabilities. 2. When funds for learners with disabilities will be released in full and on time. 3. What measures have been put in place to ensure that in future, the release of the said funds is not delayed.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Committee will deliberate on this quickly and because it is an ongoing process, we can bring the result in two weeks’ time.
It is so ordered. DEATH OF BABY STELLA ADHIAMBO OWINO AT THE NAKURU LEVEL FIVE HOSPITAL
Mr. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order 45 (2) (b), I seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Health regarding the death of a newborn baby girl; Stella Adhiambo Owino, born to Mrs. Elizabeth Adhiambo at Nakuru Level Five Hospital. In the Statement, the Chairperson should:- 1. Give a comprehensive report on the circumstances surrounding the death of the infant at Nakuru Level Five Hospital. 2. State the circumstances that led to the disappearance and eventual death of the said baby in the hands of the hospital nurse. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will attempt to give the answer within two weeks.
It is so ordered. OPERATIONS OF KENYA AIRWAYS
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on 23rd March, 2016 Sen. Leshore requested for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Roads and Transportation on the operations of the national carrier, Kenya Airways (KQ), seeking the following:- (1) The financial status of KQ. (2) The status of KQ grounded planes. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Vice-Chair. Please, summarize.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding the annexure, I can summarize that the management of KQ reviewed the value, cost and implications, and after consultations with the various stakeholders, they all agreed to sell the morning landing slot. The sale proceeds were shared equally with KLM. That was the best that could be done in the circumstances; the expenses were many, including parking and staff. Therefore, it was not cost-effective to keep the slot. Appendix 1 shows the summary of audited results for the period ended 30th September, 2015. We are a few months away from the end of the financial year when we will get the proper audited results. The results show losses and what KQ has done to improve the situation. The rest of the annexure contains an explanation as to why the London landing slot was sold and why the Boeing 787 has been subleased to Oman Air.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank the Vice-Chair for the long Statement that she has presented to this House. I have been a shareholder of Kenya Airways for the last 15 or so years. It is demoralizing to the shareholders that the so- called ‘Pride of Africa’ has been limping; shame on the management. For the last five or six years, we have not received any dividends. The morale of the employees is very low. I would like the Vice-Chair to tell us why Kenya Airways has sold the landing slot in Heathrow that they had for the last 20 or so years. Whereas they have sold the slot, they have leased another from KLM. Why did Kenya Airways purchase aircraft in the last The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the response given by the Vice-Chair is very disappointing. This company in six months – to September last year – has reported a loss of nearly Kshs12 billion. This company is still borrowing, even after the Kshs25 billion loss last year. Their total debt last year, when it had serious problems, was Kshs104 billion. By September, it had gone to Kshs115 billion. Where on earth do you find directors keeping on ‘drilling’ a company that is already sinking, by borrowing further? What action is the Government taking, because it is the main shareholder? From the Statement that the Vice-Chair has given, there is not a single action recommended by this House that has been implemented, including even simple ones like giving a timeline when the shareholders will inject capital into the airline. The Vice-Chair has not even indicated why KQ is unable to change or restructure the directors. Apart from the chairman who was appointed in October, none of the other directors has been moved. Is the Government satisfied that the same management should continue in office despite the public losing their investment in this airline?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, without prejudicing the response to the questions which I have asked, which I think will come later because they are very specific and they are not answered in this particular response, let me also join my Chairman of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget in saying that this a rather disappointing Statement. By the way, it is out of date. If you have been following what has been going on in the Press, particularly, Business Daily, you will realise that some of the statements made here are out of date with regard to the leasing and sale of planes. I do not think the facts put here are correct. Again, the Vice-Chairperson has referred to the process of recapitalization. The story is told that the process started last year but there is no evidence that any recapitalization has been done. If you googled Paul J. Taubman (PJT) Partners, you will not in your right mind hire them as a transaction advisor. One of the key partners in the PJT Partners is under investigation in the judicial process in the United States of America (USA) for high corruption. I would not like that company with a one-handed yardstick to come near the Kenya Airways which is dealing with very serious problems. Mr. Speaker, Sir,---
Order, Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o. This is not an opportunity for a rebuttal but an opportunity for seeking clarifications.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the first clarification I would like to seek is why has management not responded to the request that Sen. Leshore made with regard to the specific responses in detail of the resolution of this House? Finally, with regard to outsourcing, why is it that the answer they are giving is that no new outsourcing contracts have been entered to so far? I thought the Senate recommended that the whole issue of outsourcing should be reviewed and the current The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, last time, the Senate appointed a Committee that dwelt on this issue of the Kenya Airways extensively. I was fortunate to be in that Committee and we interviewed literally everybody to do with the Kenya Airways. Why is it that no action has been taken in the very wide-ranging recommendations that were made by that Committee that affected the operations of the Kenya Airways? Secondly, one of the recommendations and suggestions that were made was that funds will have to be injected by shareholders and the Government of Kenya is one of them. I know that it requires budgetary approvals to allocate funds to the Kenya Airways. How much has the Government set aside to inject into the Kenya Airways? What is the relationship between the Kenya Airways and other bodies that affect its operations, such as Jambojet? Mr. Speaker, Sir, we know that Jambojet works very closely with the Kenya Airways.
Order, Senator! That is enough. Order, Members, you must realise that there is a bit of interest in this matter. Therefore, just restrict yourselves to one key issue.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is in the public domain or common knowledge that the Kenya Airways has been making losses for a long time. What particular action has been taken against the former management that actually led to these losses before the new management came in? What kind of prosecution or action has been taken by the Government in making sure that the management is held to account and, moreso, people like Mr. Titus Naikuni, who was the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) at that time?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wanted to ask the question regarding shareholding. However, I want to propose this because, clearly, there are serious issues about this matter that we should interrogate as a House. Am I in order to propose that the Cabinet Secretary (CS) responsible be invited to the Senate for the whole House hearing, to explain the happenings at the Kenya Airways?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I hope that the Vice-Chairperson is listening. Could she confirm that, indeed, the Kenya Airways is the official sponsor of the Kenya Rugby Sevens Team that won the other day? If so, could she also explain how possible it is that they could allow the same team that won to fly using Qatar Airways and lose the opportunity to brand themselves with the heroes that have made this country proud? It is completely unfortunate to sponsor a team and only end up selling the same brand to another airline.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this chance. I want to address the issue of our partnership with the KLM. We have been told that the management said it is being reviewed. When will this review be done? This is a statement that has been mentioned for so long yet we know that one of the main reasons why the Kenya Airways continue to lose money is because of the skewed partnership that it has with the KLM. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Sen. Cheruiyot. You have done very well.
The last two interventions will be from Sen. Nabwala and then Sen. Wetangula.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am also concerned about the composition of the directors of the Kenya Airways and the decision they make. Recently, they terminated a contract to expand the Airport yet the contractor had already mobilised all the resources and machinery which were on site. This will lead to a very huge loss.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the hon. Senator in order to confuse the Kenya Airways with the Kenya Airports Authority (KAA)?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not confusing. I am talking about the Kenya Airways which is part of the KAA. That is why I am concerned.
Order, Sen. Nabwala. Sen. Kembi-Gitura did not actually say that you have confused. He said that you are confusing the Kenya Airways with the KAA, which you have confirmed that you are confusing because they are two different entities. I think you have made your point.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the case of the Kenya Airways is very serious. This House spent a long period of time investigating this matter. As we speak, if there is any brand that has marketed this country far and wide, it is the Kenya Airways. Any acts or omissions that led to the collapse of this airline are actually economic sabotage to this country. Could the Chairperson of the Committee and through you, agree to the proposition by the distinguished Senator for Nyeri County; that matters surrounding Kenya Airways and issues to be resolved may not be adequately dealt with by the Chairperson of the Committee. We should summon the Cabinet Secretary (CS) here and interrogate him thoroughly on what the Government is doing about all matters surrounding Kenya Airways, including the implementation of the outcome of the Sen. (Prof.) Anyang-Nyong'o’s committee that made very far reaching recommendations on how to save this airline from imminent collapse that we are staring at.
On that note, Chairperson, I am directing the Committee to invite the Cabinet Secretary (CS) in person to give adequate notice so that Members can interrogate this matter directly. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
The House cannot act in vain. This matter is so grave and important to the nation. We have already done our bit and we want to get the assurance from the Executive that they are also doing their bit. Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o, do you have a Statement for the Senator of Murang’a County? REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON PROPOSED REMOVAL FROM OFFICE BYIMPEACHMENT OF HON. MWANGI WA IRIA GOVERNOR OF MURANG’A COUNTY
Mr. Speaker, Sir, yes, I have a Statement for the Senator for Murang’a County, Sen. Kembi-Gitura. It is a response regarding the issues that he raised. At a sitting of this House held on 1st March, 2016, the Senator for Murang’a County sought a Statement from the Chairman of the Sessional Committee on County Public Accounts and Investments, regarding the Report of the Special Committee on the proposed removal from office by impeachment of Hon. Mwangi Wa Iria, the Governor of Murang’a County. In particular, the Senator requested the Chairperson of the Committee to address the following issues:- (a) Allegation 2,Paragraph 212 of the Report. (b) Allegation 10,Paragraph 219 of the Report. (c) Allegation 11,Paragraph 220 of the Report. The Statement sought by the Senator relates to the impeachment of Hon. Mwangi Wa Iria, Governor, Murang’a County. The proposed impeachment was based on charges forwarded to the Senate by the Murang’a County Assembly in terms of Standing Order No.68 (1). The Senate by resolution made on 28th October, 2015, established a Special Committee which was required under Standing Order 68(1)(b), to investigate the matter. The Special Committee, after investigating that matter, found in respect of all charges that the charges had not been proved or substantiated. The Senate was, therefore, guided by Standing Order 68(4)(a) which provides that:- “If a special committee reports that the particulars of any allegations against the governor- (a) Have not been substantiated, further proceedings shall not be taken under this section in respect of that allegation.” In the event that the issue of the removal of the governor based on the same charges arises, then section 33(8) of the County Governments Act, 2012 will apply. The section provides that a Motion by the county assembly for the removal of the governor on the same charge may only be re-introduced to the Senate on the expiry of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Chairperson, you will help the House. Just refer to some of those things that have been written. You do not have to cite each and every one of them.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, fine. This means that the House is familiar with the responsibility of our Committee.
That is correct.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, from the mandate above, it is clear that the Committee on County Public Accounts and Investments has the power to examine the audited accounts of Murang’a County Government, accordingly. Since the Committee on County Public Accounts and Investments is, pursuant to Article 229(7) and (8) of the Constitution and Standing Order No.212 (3)(c), mandated to examine audit reports of Murang’a County, the Committee will examine the audit reports of the period 2013/2014. The issues raised under Allegation 2 are, therefore, issues that the Committee would consider in the examination of the Report. The Committee may deliberate and assign a timeline within which they are to consider the Report for purposes of satisfying the House when delivering the Statement. Paragraph 219 Relating to Allegation 10 reads as follows: “Violation of Article 227(1) of the Constitution of Kenya and Section 30 of the Public Procurement and Disposal Act, 2005, through splitting of tenders with different LPO numbers for the same contractor. For instance, proposed opening of Kahuruko- Ngatho Junction under the Department of Transport and Infrastructure was split 11 times with different LPO numbers according to the debt owing report form the CEC Finance, IT and Planning as at 14th August, 2015. The Committee unanimously found that the allegation was not proved and not substantiated. In the event that the issue of the removal of the governor was made on the same charges arises, a motion by the county assembly for the removal of the governor on the same charge may only be introduced, as I said earlier, after expiry of three months. All procurement issues as they exist under the Auditor-General’s 2013/2014 reports will also be examined and subsequently addressed as they exist in the report. Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me go to allegation 11 relating to charge 1, paragraph 220, relating to allegation 10 which reads as follows:- Contravention of Article 201(a) (e), the Constitution of Kenya on principles of public finance in regard to accountability, responsible finance management and clear fiscal reporting, Section 155 (5) of the Public Finance Management Act 2013, by failing to ensure that an Internal Audit Committee is established. This has exposed the county executive operations to lack of checks and balances on financial controls especially in the county treasury and lack of decentralized payment systems particularly at the departmental level. This is evidenced by irregular practices such as opening of unauthorized bank accounts contrary to the guidelines of the Transition Authority (TA), lack of maintaining cash books for some accounts and unsurrendered imprests, lack of adherence to the budget implementation, among other irregularities also highlighted in the Auditor- General 2013/2014 and the Controller of Budget Third Quarter Report, 2013/2014. This The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to start by thanking the Chairman and his Committee for the expeditious manner in which they have dealt with this issue which was of grave concern to me and the people of Murang’a County. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this statement raises several important issues. I will start from where the Chairman ended because on the issue of the purchase of 34 acres of land for Kshs340 million, meaning that each acre was bought for Kshs10 million, whereas valuation was less than Kshs2 million per acre, on that specific issue alone, the Committee, chaired by Sen. Musila, found that due to the complex nature of this land purchase transaction, the Committee recommends that the PPOA and EACC investigates this matter and reports to the Senate on the outcome of the investigations. That is the importance of this matter. The Committee dealt with and finalized the issue once and for all like Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o’s Committee has found. So, this is not an issue that is going to be reopened. What I wanted to know from this committee is this: Is this Committee going to refer the issue to the relevant institutions of this country; the EACC and PPOA, to decide on whether to charge or whether or not the Kshs340 million expropriated from the people of Murang’a County will be refunded? Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the Ninth Parliament with Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and others, I sat in the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) and these are the most powerful watchdog committees of Parliament. I do recall that PAC did on several occasions, or at least had the power to order that the person affected be found not to be fit and proper person to hold public office. That is where we have strong public accounts committees. I really appreciate that the Committee is going to call the Governor of Murang’a County and that it is going to be an open forum and we are going to raise these issues with him including“ Shilingi kwa shilingi ”, the splitting of tenders so that they do not extend beyond Kshs4 million in which case, there will be a public tender because there are many ways of skinning a cat and even avoiding the law. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order Sen. Kembi-Gitura! What clarification are you seeking?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the clarification I am seeking is whether the Committee is going to follow the recommendation of Sen. Musila’s Committee and refer this issue to the relevant committee so that we, the people of Murang’a County, either get restitutive justice where this money is returned to us or what is going to happen because this is not personal money. It is money that is coming from the sweat of people and it is taxpayers’ money. The Musila Committee had made almost final findings on the way forward on this issue.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the conclusion by the Chair of the Committee is something that I find very unacceptable. I think it is unnecessary for the Committee to again invite the same governor to discuss the audit. The issue before this House is to invite those institutions like the EACC and others and to demand action to be taken on the recommendations that have already been made by the select committee and not to go through a whole process of trying to speak to the same Governor where the select committee of this House has already determined a wrong doing. Mr. Speaker, Sir, why would we want to repeat the same exercise by inviting the Governor to go through the same motions again in clarifying issues that have already been clarified?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Musila Committee found that the governor paid for the land at the rate of Kshs10 million per acre on the strength of the valuation report. Could the Chairman, for purposes of clarity, also confirm that the valuers who gave those fake valuation reports will also be invited so that they are busted and exposed for their connivance in theft of public funds?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this House had a clear recommendation that after the Report was tabled we would relook at the issues that were raised in three months. We debated this issue and even condemned some of the Committee’s recommendations. It would be proper if we finalize so that the House keeps its word. People will appreciate if we finalize the Report of the County of Murang’a.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank Members who have raised important issues regarding this important matter. Maybe I was reading it very fast, but before I came to the way forward, I said that it should be noted that the impeachment Committee conclusively dealt with the matter and it was to be handled by the Public Procurement Oversight Authority (PPOA) and the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC). The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You have heard the Chairperson say that his Committee has no powers to declare the governor unfit to hold public office. It is the practice in Parliament that where a select Committee has determined that a particular public officer has been involved in misappropriation or irregular procurement, it recommends that, that person is not fit to hold public office. Therefore, his Committee has the locus standi . It is, therefore, misleading to say that the Committee has no locus standi on that matter.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The point of order raised by Sen. Billow is extremely important. It will help the Chairperson of my Committee if he remembers that in the last Parliament, the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) in its Report found the then Governor of Central Bank of Kenya, Prof. Njuguna Ndung’u, and hon. Kimunya not fit to hold public office. The Cocker Commission that was subsequently appointed by President Kibaki to look into the sale of Grand Regency Hotel agreed and recommended that the two gentlemen were not fit to hold public office. Therefore, nothing will preclude us, as a Committee, from finding that Governor Mwangi wa Iria is unfit to hold public office.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish my colleagues could listen to me carefully. I said that, as of now, before the governor appears before the Committee, it will be wrong for me to say that we shall find him unfit to hold public office. How can you make judgment before you hear the accused? We have the responsibility and--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is clear that I was the Chairperson of the Public Investment Committee (PIC) for three years and I declared people unfit to hold public office. But I cannot declare people unfit to hold public office before I listen to them. It is the rule of natural justice that they come; we listen to them and make a decision.
Order, Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o. I want to agree with the Chairperson because he was clear. Sen. Billow, you cannot take us back for failing to listen or not listening carefully, seconded by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale who was not listening as well.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am a Member of the Committee and agree with my Chairman---
Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, proceed to your Statement. That matter is finished.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have a small and simple Statement to seek---
What is it Sen. Kembi-Gitura?
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did not know that we had finished with the Statement by Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o. I thought that you would give me a right of reply. I thought Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o was still on his feet and Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo was raising a point of order on what---
Order, Senator. Let me make it abundantly clear that we have been on this Statement for a long time. Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'- Nyong'o responded and he is the one with the last word. The response is that this is work-in-progress. They will use the opportunity of the Report of the Auditor-General to interrogate these matters that are still pending. They will also follow the recommendations of the Committee in terms of summoning the relevant authorities - the EACC and PPOA - in order to find out. That was the initial intervention by Sen. Billow, which I thought was useful and the Chairperson took it on board. So, let this matter rest there for now. Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, proceed with your request for a statement. AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ASSISTANCE TO PASTORALIST COMMUNITIES
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a request for a Statement on the affirmative action assistance to pastoralist communities. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.45 2 (b) to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations regarding affirmative action assistance to pastoralist communities. In the Statement, the Chairperson should:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. Dullo, please, respond to that.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we will respond to that Statement in two weeks’ time if that is okay with the Senator.
So ordered. Hon. Senators, we have Statement No. (b) on the Order Paper to be issued.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Last week, the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget wanted to issue a Statement on Thursday in response to a requisition from me concerning the funding of the Council of Governors (CoG). However, it is not on the list. The Chairperson is here and ready with the answer. He has even given me a copy of his response. Could you kindly allow us to hear the response if time allows?
Hon. Senators, I have time and again advised that we can canvass such things without bringing them to the Plenary. We already have more than enough statements to be issued. I do not know whether the Members are around. I can see that Sen. Leshore is not here. Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo who requested Statement (b) is here. Does the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations have the answer to Statement (c)? However, before we respond to those statements, what is Sen. Billow’s response to Statement (b)? FAILURE BY COUNTY GOVERNMENTS TO PAY SUPPLIERS AND CONTRACTORS
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the statement that was requested by Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo is not ready. It has just been delivered to the Clerk of the Senate this afternoon. We will deliver it tomorrow if it will be ready. However, I am ready with the Statement that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale requested that was scheduled for this week.
Let us deal with the other Statements the Order Paper before we come back to that Statement that was requested by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. PARTICIPATION OF CID OFFICERS IN VETTING COMMITTEE SITTINGS FOR ID CARD APPLICATIONS IN TRANS NZOIA COUNTY
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to respond to this Statement that was requested by Sen. Ndiema regarding the officers drawn from---- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Sen. Adan. Let me have a feel of it first. You may resume your seat, Sen. Adan. I will give you time later. Let us move on to the next statement. I see that the Chairperson of the Committee on Lands and Natural Resources is here to respond to Sen. Mositet’s request, Statement (d). Is the Chairperson of the standing Committee on Education here to respond to the Statement (e) that was requested by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale? CLOSURE OF MASINDE MULIRO UNIVERSITY IN KAKAMEGA COUNTY
On appoint of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You directed that because of the nature of Statement (e), the answer should come today. The Chairperson requested to bring it on Thursday this week, but you directed that he brings the response today.
That is true. Is the Chairperson or any Member of the Committee on Education around to respond to this matter because it is an urgent matter? Could the Senate Deputy Majority Leader respond to that question? The last time I checked, they had just appointed a new one.
Please proceed, Sen. Murkomen.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just came in. I am, therefore, not sure about the details. Allow me to, first consult Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo to find out the details.
It is a simple thing. Just get your Order Paper and look at the last page. The Chairperson of the Committee on Education is not around to respond to Statement (e).
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is unfortunate that no Member of the Committee on Education is around. However, I undertake that the response will come at the earliest opportunity possible. If this House adjourns at the end of the day as agreed, they will respond to the statement by Tuesday, next week.
Order, the Senate Deputy Majority Leader! You are not supposed to anticipate debate. I order that the Statement be availed to the House on Thursday, this week. Given the urgency of the Statement that was sought by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget, Sen. Billow is ready, he may proceed on the statement concerning funding the CoG. FUNDING OF COUNCIL OF GOVERNORS’ ACTIVITIES
Mr. Speaker, Sir, a statement was sought by the Senator for Kakamega County, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, regarding the funding of the CoG activities. In The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, was that your statement? Sen. Murkomen, are you on a point of order or do you want to seek a clarification?
Then wait, that is not a point of order. Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me to thank the Chairman. This is a very professional answer. On the face of it, it is acceptable. However, as the lawyers say, the devil is in the detail. To this extent, when you scrutinize the contribution by the Council of Governors (CoG) and what the donors have given, I do not think it was in the thinking of the drafters of the Constitution that we create an account like this; that, all of a sudden, you would find Kshs1.3 billion banked into it. When you dissect it, you find the Kshs1.3 billion is being used on all manner of things. However, I would like the Chairman to clarify just two things on those expenses:- (1) What are these legal matters that lawyers were hired for, that led to them being paid Kshs219,523,000? Could you tell us what these cases were? (2) Regarding the Kshs12.5 million that is being spent on humanitarian aid; what specific humanitarian aid did the CoG give? (3) So that the people of Kakamega County might not crucify me, why is it that in the contributions, Kakamega County is the one which appears to be most generous? Kakamega has contributed Kshs42 million. Compare this to Machakos County, where at least, the Level Five Hospital is working. Over the same period, it has contributed only Kshs340,000. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, so that you also do not just sit pretty, the County Government of Murang’a has contributed Kshs8.3 million. Could the Chairman confirm that these contributions are arbitrary? If so, what is it that provoked Governor Oparanya to be the main contributor to this fund? Is it because of the cases that he has been having in court, where he has been dodging to appear before the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee (CPAIC), pursued for inciting mourners to set a homestead on fire and pursued for taking Kshs200 million and paying it to Mumias Sugar Company in the name of paying farmers’ debts yet no farmer was paid? Is he so generous because he has the highest number of transgressions? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Proceed, Sen. Elachi. Sen. Billow, there are very many interventions. So, take note of them.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is very important to understand the expenditures. We need to interrogate office rent, for instance. In 2013/2014 they spent Kshs41 million. What happened in 2014/2015? They went overboard to spend a whooping Kshs134 million. They spent this on office rent in Nairobi yet we passed a Motion the other day that we have county governments that do not have offices in their counties. We are looking for money to build those offices. This is double expenditure considering that they also have offices in Nairobi. We need to curb this. In addition, there is expenditure on fuel and lubricants. Is this for the staff or do governors spend money for fuel in the counties then, again when they come to their Nairobi offices, they claim mileage allowances? We need to look into this. Lastly, concerning capacity building; the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget has questioned it and asked the National Treasury to take action. It is time we stopped this. Regarding consultancy fees; despite having staff and the so called public economic officers and advisors, they have spent Kshs8 million on consultancy fees. We need to interrogate whether this office was created to use the backdoor to have a county government office in Nairobi rather than having them in the 47 counties.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am glad that this question has been answered. We have sought for it since 2013. However, on the Schedule on legal fees, this report shows that the CoG representing our counties spent Kshs48 million in 2013/2014, Kshs87 million in 2014/2015 and Kshs83 million in 2015/2016. Mr. Deputy Speaker, these funds have been used ostensibly in some cases to sue this House. The Intergovernmental Relations Act requires that this CoG makes a report to this Senate. That report has not been delivered since 2013. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we now know why. Obviously, nobody wants to disclose this. My county has spent a total of Kshs 9.375million in 2015/2016. A total Kshs 14, 280, 000 in 2014/2015 and Kshs 400, 000 in 2013/2014 was spent. What is strange is that in the budgets prepared in counties, these figures are never mentioned. So, there is an ambiguous amount that is lumped together by the governors in their offices which ends up in the Council of Governors office, and no resolution is passed in their assemblies for purposes of accounting. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is this necessary expenditure? We have criticized Cheserem and his committee for being the 48th governor and this is the reason. While we are busy stifling our county assemblies, these governors are spending Kshs 83million on legal fees. While the assemblies have no funds and HANSARD reports, the governors are spending monies that are not accounted for. Am I in order to suggest that a proper audit should be carried out? I am not convinced that Makueni County has not contributed more. A special audit under the Constitution and the PFM Act on this should be done so that we can challenge the former Chairperson of the Council of Governors and everybody else. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while Senators have no offices where they work in Nairobi, governors have plush offices in the counties and air conditioned offices in The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order Senators! This is an important debate taking place. I would like us to hear each other. May I remind the Members that you are seeking clarifications? Do not enter into new debate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Statement has revealed the fears of the Senators on how the governors have been living large and how they have been evading responsibilities. As the other Members have said, this is what we need to interrogate clearly. When I look at the table on the expenditure - before I mention what my county has contributed for this Council of Governors - in the first year, they said they did not purchase any vehicle. However, there was an expenditure of Kshs 25million on fuel. The question is whose vehicle was fueled. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, they talk of personnel salaries and allowances. The expenditure for that vote alone is huge. We need to be told how many officers have been employed. Does it mean a staff from every county government giving a total of about 47? We need to know if there are officers seconded by every county to work in the Council of Governor’s office. I read in the second page where they sated that the Council plays a coordinating and facilitating role amongst the 47 county governments on matters of policy, legislation and administrative functions among others. I thought the Senate is tasked with legislation.
Order Senator. I must remind you that you are seeking a clarification.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when I find governors talking about legislative work, I wonder if they have created another Senate or assembly. They should submit their issues to the Senate through their respective Senators. The Senator represents the county and protects the interests of a county. Lastly, I am surprised that the Governor for West Pokot County which is one of the counties that was referred to as a “closed county” - not even marginalised - could afford to contribute Kshs 19million. When I look at the money and compare with the problems we have in the county, I get worried. I did not know this until today when I saw the Statement. We should know why the Auditor-General has not been able to pick an expenditure that has been misused? If this can be discovered here and now, how much more money has disappeared to other conduits that we do not know? Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, these are key things that we want to hear so that we know where we are heading to.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, can the Chairman confirm to this House whether all these payments have been budgeted for The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek clarifications, very well aware of the Intergovernmental Relations Act which makes it very clear that funds for funding the Council of Governors (CoG) and the Summit shall be contributed by the Treasury. What legal framework informed county governments to make the contributions we are talking about here? I am asking this question knowing very well that the amount of money contributed by the 47 counties purposely for meetings, exchanging ideas and consulting is about Kshs1 billion. It is only Kshs2 million less to make it Kshs1 billion. We all know what Kshs1 billion can do. We know to what extent it could change lives. Elgeyo-Marakwet, for example, contributed Kshs6.8 million. At least it was Kshs6 million in the first instance. I think they gave up somewhere in the middle and contributed Kshs100,000 only in the subsequent year. However, Kshs6 million could have been used to construct a road from a place called Kipsaos to somewhere near Fluorspar. I have just come from home and I can assure you that there is neither a road from a place called Sisiya to Aror nor Wiwo to Sambalat, which are marginalised locations yet officials of my county complain that they have very little allocation to the county. Where do they get the excuse to spend Kshs6 million for that kind of expenditure? Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we were here and debated day and night about giving money to Tharaka-Nithi and Tana River counties to build offices. Where does Tharaka- Nithi get the excuse to use Kshs22 million? Tana River has given out Kshs39 million for The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order! You should just say the Governor of Murang’a.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Governor of Murang’a who, unfortunately, is your Governor and you must accept that part. There was also the attempt of impeaching the Governor of Kericho, the Governor of Makueni and the Deputy Governor of Machakos. Is it a devolved function for some counties to spend money in paying lawyers to defend public officers facing impeachment charges? My understanding of the law is that when you are facing a criminal charge such as an impeachment or an impropriety like impeachment, it is personal. You cannot use devolved money to defend yourself. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, unfortunately, having been the Deputy Senate Majority Leader in this Senate, it is the very reason that I want to conclude that going to Meru to celebrate stealing of public funds will be the most unfortunate thing if any Senator does that.
The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. Murkomen, I know I that I am not supposed to contribute on my own Motion as the Chair. However, it is not in order to talk about Senators loitering. It is good that you should get a better word to use than that.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. When someone makes a trip to Meru and the person does not get any opportunity to challenge the organizers of that meeting but he or she is made to sit, listen and told how the men qualify to steal public funds, is that not loitering?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, maybe, the word “loitering” is too strong. I would like to replace it with traveling to Meru “with intent to do nothing”.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as further clarification to this Statement, I would like to know the procedure for recruitment of people who sit in liaison offices where some officers also loiter with the governors all over the country and the world. I would like to know the procedure and terms of reference for officers who sit in county liaison offices at Delta House. Secondly, like the Senate Majority Leader said, I would like to know the criteria used because there is no proportionate formula in terms of how the money was contributed. In that regard, more specifically, I would like to know why the county that I come from will pay Kshs30 million. For what purpose is that and under what particular formula is that arrived at? Finally, I was about to tell most Senators who will run for governorship to suffocate their bids. However, after seeing this, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale needs to be in that Council. This is because the kind of embezzlement that the CoG is purported to have had is something that we as a Senate must speak to. Ultimately, I would like clarification from the Chairman of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget on whether the Senate, by a resolution - we know that this money has not gone to fund functions that it was supposed to fund - can compel reimbursement of all these monies back to the counties. This is because if this money has not funded functions of counties, then that money has been improperly allocated. Further to Sen. Murkomen’s proposal that these The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Senators, I have to reduce the time a little because there is a lot of interest in this. I want you to, please, just seek clarification on a specific issue. I also request you to be kind as not to seek a clarification that has already been sought by your colleague.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, a number of clarifications have been sought by my colleagues. However, we need the Chairperson to clarify the criteria that was used in terms of allocating the various counties, the amounts of contributions that they have to make. That is important. Was it captured in the county budget and were those withdrawals made pursuant to the law where the Controller of Budget’s office is involved? Could the Chairperson also clarify whether there is a co-relation between the arrogance of various individual governors and the contributions of their counties? This is because if you look at the contributions, the more arrogant a governor is, the more the amount they contribute to the Council of Governor’s (CoG) kitty.
Could he also clarify whether the amount allocated or contributed by Kakamega County could have been used to buy the tear gas canisters that were used to assault the Senate Minority Leader and Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
Could the Chairperson also clarify whether the Kshs10 million contributed by the Nandi County Government could have been used to sort out the mess that we have found ourselves in? Two weeks down the line, all the health facilities have been closed. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, not to go in the direction that Sen. Murkomen suggested, looking at this document, can we really talk about celebrating the success of devolution, drive all the way to Meru County to go and celebrate this kind of nonsense? Can the Chairperson confirm officially that the Committee on Commerce, Finance and Budget will advise this House that we do not find our way to Meru and that we focus on ensuring that we gain accountability of county resources that have been allocated to CoG?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will be brief because I think much has been mentioned. I would like to just get a clarification on where the budgets for this money came from. There was an agreement that this money is being put into the kitty but The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think the reason why we need to seek more clarity on this matter is that it will unravel one of the mysteries which has baffledSenators for quite a long time. The mystery is, how governors manage to find a “bypass”. We all understand that a county treasury is organised in such a way that before any funds are drawn, they are committed through a budgeting process. Any time there is expenditure, it is from a particular vote. For a long time, we have been wondering how governors manage to get through this, likely on paper, very stringent process and ensure that they get some money off the county treasury, which we see them distributing in various harambees over the weekends. I think if we pursue this matter properly and know how they were able to draw, for example, this Kshs20 million from Kericho County, then it will lead us to a position where we can get answers. We may even get to know the other places that money has been drawn from, yet there was no budgetary allocation. It will be very important to get that clarification.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will be brief. The disparity of the amounts that have been deposited in this account by the various counties raises a lot of suspicion. We need clarification on whether there was an agreed uniform amount. Secondly, is it possible that each governor is deciding on his own how much to deposit in this account? For that matter, it would be important that we are told how much was spent from each county, for example, whether I would want Trans-Nzoia County to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not want to repeat what my colleagues have said.
Sen. Murungi you have put your microphone far from you.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the clarification that I want to seek regards the erratic contributions that my county has made. If you look at Meru County which is region No.26 on the Report, we have contributed Kshs9.375 million in one year, Kshs27 million in 2014, Kshs6,140,000 in another year, Kshs7,820,623 in another year, making a total of approximately Kshs44 million. We are the second highest contributors to this fund. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we would like to know the criteria; why we, as Meru County, are among the number one contributors to this fund in the Republic. Is it because of the personality of the governor, the size of the county or which criteria? Is it part of the campaign funds for him to be the Chairman of the Council of Governors (CoG)? Secondly, what is the legal basis for the establishment of this fund? They say the fund was established on 5th June, 2014 by the CoG resolution at a meeting held on 8th May, 2014.
Sen. Adan, do you have a point of order?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Use your microphone, I cannot hear you. Please, move to the Dispatch Box.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me tell Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale that despite my first term in this House, I am not that illiterate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, having said that, I want to contribute, but unfortunately, I do not know whether you are reading me on your screen.
I am not reading you, but I have now heard you. May be your system is not working. Sen. Murungi, go on.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Maybe you should recognize Sen. Adan so that she can stop interrupting me. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, sorry because what I may say is a bit of repetition for I came in late. Please, bear with me. First of all, in terms of what I have seen here as money paid as legal fees, I am a little bit surprised that so much of this money could be paid as legal fees. I think the courts, even in elections petitions and a lot of legal fees that were expended by the governors were in regard to election petitions---. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you know that the High Court and other superior courts generally after the end of a hearing of an election petition, they cap the cost so that you are not allowed to demand costs of more than Kshs2 million. I have done one or two petitions where it was capped at Kshs2 million. So, I definitely agree with the preposition that the money being shown here as payment to lawyers should be audited because it is just a conduit. The lawyers just share this money with governors or their agents. If you look at the total money going to lawyers in those three years, it is almost Kshs200 million. This is about a quarter of the entire amount of the collections which the Government has submitted to the CoG. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
In fact, an assessment is made.
Precisely. The amount of money that the counties we believe are marginalized are paying to the CoG, does not meet their description. I, therefore, commend Members who are here and are not going to Meru. I am happy with the king of Meru for taking a stand. I am in solidarity with him for not going to Meru.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, a lot has been said, but I have one or two points to contribute. My question goes to the donors because they are really particular about the usage of their money. Why are development partners acting as conduits of money siphoning by the governors? The donors should go back to the drawing board and inquire how the money is used. The second point that has already been raised is in regard to the person who approved the allocations. We, as Senators, sit here and ask for money to be allocated to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will not go back to what my colleagues have asked on the issue of how these contributions are determined. However much has been contributed, these are public funds and we have expenditure items. I would like to know whether the expenditures are submitted to the public procurement requirements or the money is just spent by the CoG without following the public procurement requirements, yet these are public funds.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is a very important day for the people of Kenya, especially those from my county. It is sad for my county which only gets about Kshs4 billion. Part of this money ends up in the pockets of the governor and contractors. Most governors have at least ten contractors whom they use as “fishing baskets.” Tana River County is one of the counties which have problems in terms of accountability. The pending bills were presented in this House recently and Tana River County was not included. The Auditor-General has also clearly stated that Tana River County has not presented its report. However, I recently read in the newspapers that Tana River County is clean and free from corruption and does not have any pending bills.
Sen. Bule, you are supposed to seek a clarification on the Statement issued by the Chairman of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget and not debate. S
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, governors have grown horns and the Senate should stand firm. We should ensure that we dehorn these fellows. My appeal goes to the---
Sen. Bule, however angry you may feel, they are still governors and not “fellows.” Please, refer to them properly.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we thought that governors would govern the counties well. They are Chief Executive Officers (CEOs) who are accountable to us. Tana River County contributed Kshs40 million to the CoG when our people are dying of hunger. Ours is one of the poorest counties in the country. We will not recover from poverty if we continue doing what we are doing now. I appeal to the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget to ensure that we do something because we should not encourage corruption. The other day, I said that this Senate is supporting corruption because we have never taken action to dehorn these people. Hon. Senators and governors are elected. In fact, I got more votes than my governor. Therefore, we must ensure that no single shilling goes to the counties before it is accounted for. I am mourning today. There is nothing more that I can say. We have to accept that we are the ones failing, not the governors, because we have given them these privileges.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I was watching this debate from the Senator’s Lounge, I was extremely excited to see the constructive The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
What is your point of order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You can see the level of interest and the seriousness of the issues being raised. We have established a tradition in this House where when matters are weighty as these are, we normally request the Chairperson of the Committee to invite the Cabinet Secretary in charge of the line Ministry to come to the Committee of the Whole. Will I be in order to request that you consider asking the Chairperson to invite the Cabinet Secretary in charge of Devolution and National Planning as well as the Chairman of the CoG, so that they could shed light on these important matters that need clarifications?
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I still have two more requests from the Floor. Let me listen to what they have to say so that we give everybody an equal chance before we give the Chairperson of the Committee an opportunity to respond. After that, we shall see whether what you are asking is a matter that can be accommodated.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to seek clarification on quite a number of issues with regards to this Statement. First, I congratulate my colleagues who have raised pertinent issues. I would also like to recognize that my county, Kiambu County, has suffered this injustice by contributing Kshs12 million to this kitty. The media and other reports may bear me out that as late as last week, children were dying in Kiambu County hospitals due to lack of oxygen machines and yet the governor had the audacity to contribute Kshs12 million to a kitty that is not only ambiguous, but largely, in my conviction, has undertaken illegal activities. As far as the Constitution is concerned, what are the defined roles and functions of the CoG? Secondly, is it justifiable that a total of Khs1.3 billion could have been spent to facilitate the functions of the CoG? Other specific areas that I would like the Chairperson of the Committee to clarify to this House is a follow up on what Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'- Nyong'o said so that the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget can apply some actual arithmetic to give us conclusive answers. I would also like to seek a clarification on what Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o said. For instance, in the 2014/2015 Financial Year, office rent for the governors was Kshs134 million, and then another Kshs102 million was added for purposes of maintenance of the same offices. That means that if every governor out of the 47 governors had an office in Nairobi, the amount spent on each office for that one year was Kshs5 million. What kind of office would be rented at Kshs5 million for one year? If you divided that by 12 months, it gives you figures that are unbelievable indicated as the cost of renting those offices for one year. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, also, on page 2 of the Statement, it is indicated that there are grants that are given to the CoG. Under these grants, there is a grant of Kshs265 million from the National Treasury. The question we would like clarified is: what assessment has been done by the national Government to determine that the CoG is worthy of Kshs265 million of taxpayers money to finance their activities? Besides that, you realise that, for example, in this one year, the CoG has spent Kshs265 million for the three years, they have further spent another Kshs1 billion. So, even if the Kshs265 The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Thank you, Senator. We will have two more interventions only. I hope they will be brief so that we can finish. Proceed, Sen. Okong’o.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will be brief because most of the issues have been captured by my colleagues. First, I would like to know from the Chairperson The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, mine will be brief. I would like to get a clarification on how the money is incorporated in the budget of the counties. Budget making in the counties begins by public participation where people present their views on what needs to be done. After that, the executive sits down and comes up with a budget which is later interrogated by the county assembly. So, at what point do these contributions come in? I am also wondering whether this kitty has been set aside by the governors to get funds to facilitate the next elections. This is a lot of money. In Kajiado County, for example, for the last three years, almost Kshs19 million has been spent. They have spent this money yet there is a ward called Mosiro which is in need of water. It is just the other day that we got a single borehole in a ward with almost 10,000 people. It is a very dry area. I believe that with the Kshs19 million, we could have sunk another six boreholes to solve the water problem. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it would also be good to know how the Controller of Budget allowed the withdrawal of that money. I believe that before they are allowed to have that money, they make a request through the Controller of Budget. Therefore, how does she allow that to happen?
Thank you, Senators. It has been a long session of clarifications. Sen. Billow, are you able to do all that now? If “yes,” bear in mind the point of order that was raised by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. Let us find the way forward.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank all the Members who sought clarifications. In fact, there is no Member who did not seek a clarification. This is an important matter because it is about accountability and how public funds have been used. Before I go on to specific questions - from the mood of the House and what the Members have asked - I propose that we organise a Kamukunji for all the Senators and invite the Controller of Budget, the Auditor-General, the Chairman of the CoG and the Cabinet Secretary of the National Treasury. Although these are county functions, the Cabinet Secretary for National Treasury may be invited nonetheless. They will explain issues relating to these funds. The reasons are very clear. They are as follows: The mandate of the CoG is clearly set out in law. The basis for their funding is also provided for in legislation. In fact, the Transition to Devolved Governments Act is clear that the CoG is a national Government entity. That is why it is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. Billow, you have made a good proposal which is acceptable and can be expanded to summoning all the relevant persons to appear before the committee and the Senators in a Kamukunji to answer the raised questions. Do you want to deal with them individually or you want it to be dealt in a
However, you have given a good preamble and a proposal.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is not exactly that way. I have no intention of going through each of them, but I just need any item that may not have been captured in the five points that I have mentioned.
There are many issues that were raised. The Senators wanted an in-depth clarification from the persons that you have mentioned. Since you have come up with the proposal yourself - which Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale had raised in a point of order - that will be the correct way forward.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that will be the right way to go. We will get all those specific sets of questions from the HANSARD and our committee will prepare that. First, we will then invite the Auditor-General and then the Controller of Budget, the Cabinet Secretary for the national Treasury and the CoG. After that, we will then take necessary actions. In the meantime, we need to also invite the EACC to examine that account as a matter of urgency because there are claims that the money could have been used as a slush fund to finance some of the governors. At the same time, we could act on other issues that I have mentioned. We could suggest that they conduct special forensic audit in that meeting. Therefore, I agree on the way forward.
Very well, Sen. Billow. The issue has been very well articulated and ventilated. It is my view that it is a matter that we must pursue so that we get the answers because my take from the Senators’ contribution is that they are acting pursuant to the powers under Article 96 of the Constitution; to protect the interests of the counties and county governments. So, this is very important and it is good that it has gone that way. Sen. Billow, it will depend very much on you on how fast you can move the process to have the relevant persons or officers and the CoG come before the Senate to answer all those very pertinent questions that have been raised. I will order that the HANSARD be made available to your committee as soon as possible because you will need it to summon or invite all these persons to come before us. They must be made aware of the several issues and questions that have been raised. They must also deal with them to the satisfaction of your committee and this Senate. That is so ordered. Next Order! The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You intent that we move on to the next Order, but the Speaker, before he left, had agreed that Statement (d) will be issued.
Could I have a copy of the Order Paper?
Are you the one to issue the statement?
I can see Sen. Mositet is here. Are you ready to give the statement?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Okay, that will be the last statement.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will try to be very brief. THE KILLING OF TWO PEOPLE IN KAJIADO COUNTY BY MARAUDING ELEPHANTS
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on 17th March this year, the Senator for Kajiado, requested for a statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Land and Natural Resources on the killing of two people in Kajiado County. He specifically requested that an explanation be given on the circumstances that led to the death of Mr. Saitoti Santamu Oleku and three year old Ntompo Ntoipo Nchaiyo within Kajiado East Constituency on 2nd February, 2016, and 6th March, 2016, respectively. Secondly, he wanted an explanation on the status of compensation claims for the two victims. Lastly, he sought an explanation on the measures taken by the Kenya Wildlife Service (KWS) to keep watch over wildlife and ensure that they do not pose danger to people living around wildlife conservancies, game reserves and national parks. In response, I want to say the following. The late Saitoti Santamo Oleku was killed by an elephant on 1st February, 2016 at around 6.30 p.m. The incidence occurred while he was guarding his water pan to restrict wild animals from watering from it. An injured elephant attacked him and he was rushed to Merrueshi Health Centre where he died while undergoing treatment. The second case involved the child. On 6th March, 2016, at around 3.00 p.m., the KWS Rapid Response Team based at Kiboko area received information that a three year old child by the name John Ntompo Ntoipo Nchaiyo was accidentally trampled on by an elephant while coming from church in the company of his mother at MCK Village of Kajiado East Constituency, Kajiado County. The child was rushed to Masimba Dispensary where he was referred to Makindu General Hospital. He passed on while undergoing treatment at Makindu General Hospital. The area where the incident occurred is generally bushy and the mother could have been caught unawares. The KWS suspects that the elephants could have been in a The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Thank you very much, Senator. Sen. Mositet, do you want to seek a clarification?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also thank the Chairperson for trying to answer the few questions that I had asked. First of all, you heard the representative of the Chairperson say that the three year old child was trampled on by elephants on 6th March, 2016 and Mr. Oleku was also killed on 1st February, 2016. He then stated that the Committee which is mandated to look at the compensation sat on 24th February, 2016. I really doubt whether by 24th February, 2016, the child was still alive. So, I do not know how the child’s compensation had been picked up by the Committee. That is something that I want the representative of the Chairperson to clarify. You heard that Mr. Saitoti Santamu Oleku was killed while guarding his water pan. That is very sad. That is the pan that his family, the neighbourhood and their animals depend on. While guarding the water pan, the elephants came, trampled on Mr. Saitoti The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. Mositet, you are seeking a clarification and you cannot possibly be giving a complete new statement.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me just propose one thing or give a suggestion. Could KWS try to come up with either a strategic environmental impact assessment on the animals that we have or a social impact assessment on animal versus human beings. That way, we can see how we can mitigate in case of the problems that we are already experiencing. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we know that the Nairobi National Park which is supposed to ---
Sen. Mositet, please, wind up because you are seeking a clarification. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes I am seeking a clarification.
It has taken too long because you had the statement.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, not really a statement. I also wanted to give some input which can help or guide the Chairperson as he goes to seek further clarification. Currently, we are having a serious problem with animals within Kajiado County, particularly those which come from Nairobi National Park. Could I request the Chairperson that when he brings further clarification, let him also find out what the Ministry and KWS are doing to mitigate so that we do not have conflicts between animals and people within Kitengela all the way to Amboseli? We want to seek for finances to make sure that we have a corridor linking Amboseli and Nairobi National Park.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to seek clarification on two matters very quickly. How many such cases have occurred? We are just seized of these two cases because Sen. Mositet brought them out. However, it would be useful to understand the level of human being-animal conflict in this region. Secondly, obviously the measures do not seem to be working. Could we get more clarification on more dynamic measures that they intend to put in place to ensure that such cases do not happen again? We do not need to have even a single person losing their life. It is not about compensation here, but the loss of life. Could we have clear measures, whether it is clear demarcation, use of electric fences or something definite so that we can be assured that such incidents do not recur?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to clarify that we are aware that the accident involving the child took place on the 6th March, 2016. So, on the 24th February, 2016, when this Compensation Committee met, the child was alive. What I said in response was that both the relatives and the guardian of this child have been identified. They have been given claim forms to fill and they have done that. What I said is that we hope that at the next meeting of this Compensation Committee, the case of the child will be discussed and the recommendations made. However, in the case of the adult, Mr. Saitoti, recommendation has already been made to pay compensation to the tune of Kshs5 million, in accordance with the law. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to admit that the Senator for Kajiado has raised a number of issues challenging the---
How have you dealt with the issue of the accident of 6th March, 2016, and you are talking about the 24th February, 2016, Sen. Obure? It is not quite clear.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, what I said is that after the first incident involving Mr. Saitoti Santam, the committee went on to meet and discuss his compensation claim. They made a recommendation that he be paid an amount to the tune of Kshs5 million. Subsequently, there was the case of the child on the 6th March, 2016. The relatives of the child has been given the forms to fill, which they have done and the committee at its next meeting will consider the issue of compensation for the child. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Thank you very much, Sen. Obure. That is the end of statements. Next order! Hon. Senators, I request you to stay in so that we can finish the business of the day for the few minutes.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion that the Senate adopts the report of the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget on the second basis for equitable sharing of revenue among the county governments which was laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, 30th March, 2016. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this matter has been thoroughly discussed in various fora and recommendations made by the Commission of Revenue Allocation (CRA) which has been accepted by the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget. To me, this is a very good formula for us to use in the next three years. Population had been given recognition of 25 per cent. All the counties will equally share 26 per cent. Poverty in terms of affirmative action which should also be read together with the development factor is going to uplift the areas which have been previously considered as marginalized and it takes care of them. Also, expansive areas like Marsabit land area at 8 per cent, is also a very good consideration. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the most important is fiscal responsibility. Many counties are not able to make sufficient budgetary arrangements and are not able to put in place proper accounting mechanisms. Giving them 2 per cent for capacity building is a wise consideration. Without wasting much time, I would like to support the report of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget on the second basis for equitable sharing of revenue among county governments. Thank you.
Thank you, Senator. Sen. (Dr.) Zani, you wanted to contribute to this debate?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Oaky. You only have one minute.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also stand to support this report. As we have discussed, the allocations are quite clear. There are very few changes for equitable sharing that has increased. That is good because it means more equitability within the counties. Poverty has reduced which should be as a result of counties having improved from equitable share last time. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
There is no more interest.
There being no more interests, could I request that we defer the voting on this particular Motion to a later time when we have quorum in the House?
We defer voting or the putting of the question?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we defer putting of the question and subsequent voting to when we have requisite number in the House. Thank you.
Very well, the putting of the question is deferred to tomorrow, Wednesday, 20th April, 2016 at 2.30 p.m. so that we can be done with the business.