Order, Members, I have a Communication to make on the Seventh Edition of the East African Community games to be held from 4th to 11th December, 2016 in Mombasa County. Hon. Senators, I wish to inform you that the Seventh Edition of the East African Community (EAC) Inter-Parliamentary games is scheduled to take place from 4th to 11th December, 2016 in Mombasa County. The games are a key aspect of building relations between the East African Legislative Assembly and the national parliaments of partner States in the East African region. The games bring together representatives of the East African Legislative Assembly and from the East African Community partner States which include Burundi, Kenya, Uganda, Rwanda, Tanzania; and, from this year, South Sudan. The games play a major role enabling interaction and integration process among the Members of Parliament in the partner States. According to Article 5, they are meant to widen and deepen the integration process. Hon. Senators, the games which started in 2009 are held on an annual rotational basis. Kenya is privileged to host the Seventh Edition of the East African Community Games and the Parliamentary Service Commission has chosen Mombasa County as the venue for this activity. Towards this end, a committee consisting of Members from both Houses chaired by the Hon. Dan Wanyama was formed and inaugurated by the Speakers of Parliament on 16th June, 2016 to prepare and put in place the necessary logistics for the successful hosting of the games. The following Senators have been selected to form the Senate team at the games:- 1. Sen. Daisy Nyongesa 2. Sen. Kembi-Gitura The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Members, I have a Message from the National Assembly on the approval of the President’s Reservations to the Petroleum (Exploration Development and Production) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.44 of 2015) and the Energy Bill (National Assembly Bill No.50 of 2015). Hon. Senators, I wish to report to the Senate that pursuant to Standing Order No.40 (3) and (4), I have received the following message from the Speaker of the National Assembly regarding the referral of the Petroleum (Exploration Development and Production) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.44 of 2015) and the Energy Bill (National Assembly Bill No.50 of 2015) by his Excellency the President to Parliament for reconsideration. Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order Nos.41 and 142 of the National Assembly Standing Orders, I hereby convey the following message from the National Assembly. THAT WHEREAS in exercise of powers conferred on him by Article 115 of the Constitution, His Excellency the President refused to assent to the Petroleum (Exploration, Development and Production) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.44 of 2014) and the Energy Bill (National Assembly Bill No.50 of 2015) and refer the two Bills to Parliament for reconsideration; WHEREAS the National Assembly on Tuesday, November 22nd and Wednesday 23rd November 2016 reconsidered and passed the two Bills fully accommodating the President’s reservations and without proposing any amendments to the said reservations; NOW THEREFORE in accordance with the provisions under Article 115 (4) of the Constitution, I hereby forward the Memorandum of the President containing these reservations to the said Bills to the Senate for reconsideration. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. First of all, I want to thank the three citizens from Nyamira who have raised this petition drawing the attention of this Senate and, indeed, the general public to what is going on in Nyamira County. Those kinds of events or happenings concerning misappropriation of funds by those responsible or diversion of public funds to individuals and personal use is not only restricted to Nyamira. It happens in other counties as well. I want to urge this Senate, particularly the relevant committee to which this matter has been referred, to take a serious view and carry out proper investigations so that those who are culpable or those who are found to be responsible are punished accordingly. However, this is a common feature in our counties today where there is open plundering of public resources and open “thieving”, if I am allowed to use that word.
Order! You are not allowed to use that word.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, open plundering that is going on. We have situations where reports are made to the effect that funds are allocated for specific projects. However, when you go down to inspect those projects that are completed and paid for, there is absolutely nothing existing on the ground. We need to grapple with this and make sure that this situation is arrested and those responsible punished.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to laud the three residents from Nyamira for being bold enough to raise pertinent issues regarding public funds and expenditure in their counties. We, as a Senate, wonder why there is delay of releasing oversight funds to us because this would have helped the Senator for Nyamira County to notice such anomalies a long time ago. It is a pity that it is left to the citizens to raise those happenings in the counties. It is surprising that a county government purports to buy cows to give to the poor people while they take them to the home of the governor. Nyamira County is a small county with scarce land. Unless the governor owns a big land, where would he keep all these cows and the greenhouses? There are a lot of problems in the counties. For example, in the construction sector, there are various construction works going on without proper budget or approval from the county assemblies. In some instances----
Order, Sen. (Prof) Lonyangapuo!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in some instances, work that is supposed to be done in the next five years has already commenced without proper budget. This is chaos being witnessed. I laud the petitioners and we should encourage county citizens to be alert like them.
Bw. Spika, nakushukuru kwa kunipa nafasi hii. Nawashukuru wananchi wa Nyamira ambao wametuma Petition yao hapa. Hii ni dhihirisho ya kwamba Wakenya wamechoka, hawana nguvu na pia hawana pa kwenda. Wananchi hawa wako na mwakilishi wao hapa, ambaye ni Seneta, lakini hawawezi kuandika hiyo Petition kupitia kwake. Wanaona ni heri wakimbie mbele ya Bunge la Seneti ndiposa waweze kusaidika. Wizi wa hela za Serikali hapa Kenya umepita mipaka na Wakenya hawajui pakuenda. Juzi tumedhihirisha katika taarifa iliyosema kwamba kibunda cha pesa The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Thank you, Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to join hands with my colleagues who have lauded the residents of Nyamira for bringing out this important issue. I want to believe that this is the very first Petition specifically talking about an issue like this one that has been brought directly by citizens of a county. When this happens, then we know that something is very wrong. Why is it that the relevant authorities have not noticed that the Governor has been giving contracts to his relatives yet the information has come to the public domain? Why is it that they have not come up with a solution? This is why we are here as a Senate. As a Senate, we have kept on talking about the blunders that go on in the counties, yet our concerns keep on falling in deaf ears. I do not know the committee that you are going to commit this Petition to, but I hope that the relevant committee is going to get to the bottom of this issue. It should hold a public hearing and we should get results or recommendations that are going to be followed to the letter under the supervision of the Senate. Indeed if there is any culpability, whoever is responsible has to be brought to book. I am sure that many residents in the 47 counties would like to bring such petitions to the Senate but there is intimidation. Some people cannot come out clearly with a mission like this. I want to congratulate and laud the residents of Nyamira County who have brought up such an important issue. This shows that corruption is going on and it is rampant in many counties. It is going to---
With your permission, Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is going to make people to lose faith in devolution. I have said on several occasions that devolution is the future of this nation. We have everything to worry about when the people lose faith in it. In fact, as a Senate, we should not allow that to happen. That is my plea to the relevant committee of the Senate that is going to deal with this issue.
Could we hear from Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.? Members, you must be very clear. The prayers of the petitioners is that the Senate investigates this matter and makes appropriate recommendation to address the situation. We have not investigated the matter or determined it yet. So let us not do an overkill.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thought we were generally speaking on the subject. I want to say this with tremendous respect to everybody, that corruption in counties is officially the 48th county. In it, there are no coalitions such as The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the solution lies with this interrogation. How can somebody move cows---
You are also running the risk of unholy timing.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I hope I can stay within the holy time. The crafters of the 2010 Constitution did not envisage a situation where devolution was going to involve devolution of corruption and malpractices. I believe that the future stability of this nation is predicated on the good running of county governments. Let us never lose sight of the reason why we have devolution. Devolution is there to help Kenya be a more stable nation. While supporting the petitioners, it is good for us to look at the wider picture and all the management. Article 96(3) which gives this House oversight responsibility over management of county resources and devolved funds can never take effect because it is a word that only exists in the Constitution. It is not effective because it does not happen. For it to happen, the lawyers in this House must advise us on the law that effects article 96(3). This is because we should not be begging for funds to effect article 96(3), it should be in law. There should be a law that states the amount of money that the Senate must get to enable them to effect Article 96(3). Only then are we going to avoid situations where people are buying cows supposedly for the wananchi and then taking them to their own houses or buying cows to supposedly alleviate poverty in the county but just to use them as---The only way we can do this is by having a law that gives effect Article 96 (3). This House should not get money on the basis of the goodwill of others. Let it be in law that we must get this money. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I support. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I commend these Kenyans because they are obeying the law. They are taking due processes. They are not taking the law in their hands to start fighting. They are appreciating the institutions enshrined in the Constitution. It is our responsibility and I believe where we shall refer it, it should receive the best attention that it deserves. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a good opportunity for the Senate to investigate most of these issues and avoid the drama that some of the governors act by avoiding to appear before Senate committees. With this Petition, I am sure we will get all the documents and the results that we need so that the people of Nyamira County will defend what is theirs. This is applauding the devolution which was meant to send resources down to the villages and ensures enough participation by all Kenyans. This shows that Kenyans are alert, watching and they want to control all that they need. I commend them.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I will take a slightly different angle in this matter. I hail the patriotic residents of Nyamira County for having confidence in the Senate and bringing their petition to us. The issue of petitioning Parliament is important. That is why it is referred to twice in the Constitution. It is under Chapter Four on the Bill of Rights, Article 37 of the Constitution which gives Kenyans the right to petition Parliament. It is also mentioned under Article 119 in Chapter Eight of our Constitution. Mr. Speaker, Sir, since we started sitting in this Senate, we have received many petitions from many quotas. The residents of counties have been complaining about how affairs are being run in their counties. The reason why these petitions come to the Senate is because these Kenyans have confidence in this House. I want us to re-examine ourselves on this issue of petitions. How many petitions have been brought before this House? How many have been completed? Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., it is a serious matter. We do not want to lose that confidence that Kenyans have in this House. I know of many petitions that have been before this House. The Standing Order No. 277 (2) is clear that once a petition has been committed to a committee, that committee has 60 days to report back to the House. I know of petitions that have taken more than seven months and they have not reported to the House. I know of a number and they include one from Vihiga County Assembly where the MCAs petitioned the Senate and the Petition has been lying with the Committee led by Sen. Billow. I do not understand why the report of that petition has not been brought back to the House. These are some of the things that will make Kenyans to start losing confidence in us. We must stick to the rules that we made ourselves. The Standing Order No. 277 (2) is clear. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to encourage the Committee that this Petition will be committed to expedite the matter so that it does not become like the petition from Vihiga County Assembly.
For the remaining Members, you have only two minutes.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join my colleagues in congratulating the three petitioners who presented this Petition to the Senate. The responsibility given to this Senate is partly shared with the county assemblies in terms of oversight over our The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This petition is before this House at an interesting time. It is encouraging to see that the people who matter in regard to the role of the Senate still believe in the power of this House. They value the work that we do as Senators. I congratulate the residents of Nyamira County for the oversight role that they seem to be doing despite the inadequate resources that are at their disposal. This is an encouragement to the Senators that despite the challenges that we face, we can still do our work diligently with or without the resources that we have been seeking for some time now. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I serve in a Committee that has been mentioned and I have had an opportunity to look at some of the Petitions that have been brought before this House. You cannot help but sympathise with the residents of some particular counties when there is so much plunder and theft. You also feel encouraged that there are residents who are watching. As Senators, the Committee that will look at this Petition should give something great to the residents of Nyamira County. As we approach next year’s general elections, the confidence in the amount of work that this House does can be uplifted. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The reason you hear Members speak with certainty to this issue is that from the Members of the County Public Accounts and Investments (CPAIC) and the Committee on the Finance, Commerce and Budget, we encounter many of these issues that you can almost make an inference. As I commend the three residents of Nyamira County, I note their frustrations as have been cited by Members here. I know Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. is afraid to name Machakos County. In fact, the governor appeared before CPAIC not only accompanied by the chairman of the County Assembly Committee on Public Accounts, but also the County Assembly Majority Whip, Minority Whip and about eight MCAs. That is where the problem lies. The frustration you are seeing from these Kenyans is because the county assemblies can no longer exercise their oversight role. They have been unable and it has been proven to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also wish to agree with my colleagues on this significant issue. However, I wish to address specifically on the request that has been made by the petitioners who have asked the Senate to investigate. I wonder whether the Senate has the capacity, through its committees, to thoroughly investigate particularly if we will be asking the Auditor-General to assist us in this investigation. We know that part of the problems that we have in investigating some of these issues is the fact that the Office of the Auditor-General has not done a thorough job in order to allow us to fix whoever is dealing with these issues. This brings to the fore the question of the capacity of the staff of the Senator in that particular county. Could they have on board an auditor from the Office of the Auditor-General to work with them so that they avail useful information to the Senate so that we address these issues accordingly? As we investigate, we want to do justice to an issue that has been brought before us. Governors are now using the Integrated Financial Management Information System (IFMIS) as a scapegoat to cover for their misdeeds. They blame the IFMIS thinking that it is the “thief” of the county funds. This is not the case. It is the responsibility of the Senate to investigate and establish whether governors and other government officials are using this system to misappropriate funds in counties. I commend the petitioners of Nyamira County who have brought this petition. Let us now show them that the Senate can actually investigate and come up with credible and possible ways of legislating differently in order to stop this kind of thing. I support.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I congratulate the three eminent and patriotic citizens from Nyamira County for the bold step that they have taken to submit a petition to this House. I take this opportunity using the press that may be around to educate the public out there on what their rights are. Sen. Khaniri has eloquently quoted two articles of the Constitution. One of them is Article 37 which gives citizens the right to petition to public institutions. However, our Standing Order No.220(1)(a) and (b) on a submission of a petition, limits that ability to this House. It says:- (1) A petitioner to the Senate shall be – (a) submitted to the Clerk by the petitioner and reported to the Senate by the Speaker; or (b) presented by a Senator on behalf of a petitioner, with the consent of the Speaker. (2) Notwithstanding Paragraph 1(b), a Senator shall not be eligible to present a petition on his or her own behalf. This is the part that I want Kenyans to understand. For example, people from Migori County which I represent here wonder why I do not raise a petition on the Floor of this House on embezzlement of funds in the county. This is a wake-up call for citizens of this country to be bold enough and present their petitions to us following laid down guidelines of this Senate. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
That list is exhausted. I will only allow one Sen. Okong’o for obvious reasons.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also take this opportunity to commend the good residents of Nyamira County for having sought refuge in this “Upper House”. There are many issues which some of us as defenders of devolution and counties have been fighting for. I am happy now that we are reading from the same script with them in fighting for the rights of our people and making sure that accountability is finally dealt with expeditiously. I thank them very much and assure them that this House has no shortcuts; it will deal with the issues raised and make its recommendations accordingly.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I did not hear you commit the petition to a Standing Committee.
Thank you, Senator. Hon. Senators, pursuant to Standing Order No.227 – Sen. Khaniri had quoted all of them – the petition stands committed to the relevant Standing Committee, in this case, the Standing Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries. In terms of Standing Order 227(2), the Committee will be required, in not more than 60 days of the time of reading the prayer, to respond to the petitioners by way of a report addressed to the petitioners and laid on the Table of the Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I do not want to appear to doubt the directions that you have given. Whereas the petition prominently raised issues of cows finding their way into the Governor’s compound, I thought the issue was much bigger than the cows. It was about the use of and diverting public resources into personal use. Just that guidance because I think that would help.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, without contesting your ruling, I would agree completely with Sen. Sang because this is an investigation about fraud and not cows. It is whether or not public money was used rightly or wrongly. So, maybe that would not be the right Committee. Of course, I am not contesting it. In the event that it must go to that Committee, then maybe you can order that the CPAIC can also be coopted into it so that the issue of misappropriation can be delved into thoroughly.
I hear many points of orders, but you should know where to place your request.
.: Mr. Speaker, Sir, sitting next to Sen. Khaniri has some advantages. According to the Standing Orders, the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries considers all matters relating to agriculture, irrigation, livestock, fisheries and veterinary. The Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget investigates. So, where the petitioner seeks to investigate ---
Order! What order is that?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is the Second Schedule of the Standing Orders on page 165. It says:- “To consider all matters relating to agriculture, irrigation, livestock, fisheries development, veterinary services.” The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, hon. Senators. A number of you have raised the issue whether this should go to County Public Accounts and Investments Committee (CPAIC) or the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget; including the real contestation of whether to consider or to investigate. First, one thing is very clear; it cannot be CPAIC because it is a Sessional Committee. All petitions go to the relevant Standing Committee. My understanding is that every Committee of the Senate operates under Article 96(3). Oversight is not restricted to the specific committees. It is not finance. Some of these committees have direct provisions in terms of who receives the report of the Controller of Budget and who receives the report of the Auditor-General, but as far as I am concerned we are dealing with an issue about Nyamira County Small Holders Commercialization Programme. So, it is an agricultural programme. I also do not think the word “to consider” excludes investigation. Therefore, when you have a programme, you consider who benefitted. In fact, the issue is not value for money. It is; who are the beneficiaries of the programme; whether it should be the governor, his family members or the poor residents of Nyamira. So, it is all a matter of saying; what is the amount of money allocated to this programme? How many cows were bought? Who are the beneficiaries of the cows? Do they qualify according to the criteria set? Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., do you need any specialised training to check whether it is a cow and confirm whether it produces milk? In fact, if anything then, the product of a dairy cow can only be vetted by the agriculturalists. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., on that area, you can trust your Chair. Therefore, I maintain that the relevant Standing Committee is the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries. We are already on the next order; Papers laid. Proceed, Sen. Sijeny.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Wednesday, 30th November, 2016:- Report of the Standing Committee on Roads and Transportation on the Kenya Roads Bill (National Assembly Bill No.26 of 2016) The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Machage. Sorry, it is Sen. Billow. I had been given the impression that Sen. (Dr.) Machage will do it but now you are here. REPORT ON THE 2017 BUDGET POLICY STATEMENT
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Wednesday, 30th November, 2016:- Report of the Senate Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget on the 2017 Budget Policy Statement.
Who has more Papers? Proceed, Sen. Karaba. REPORT BY THE MINISTRY OF EDUCATION ON THE IMPLEMENTATION STATUS OF SENATE RESOLUTIONS
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Wednesday, 30th November, 2016:- Report by the Ministry of Education, Science and Technology on Implementation Status of the Senate Resolutions Regarding:- (a) The Motion by the Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo calling upon the national Government to institutionalize and mainstream policies to support open and distance learning. (b) The Motion by Sen. David Musila calling upon the national Government to take immediate measures to release certificates held by heads of secondary schools since 2007 and to ensure that no head of a school, person or institution continues to withhold KCSE certificates. (c) The Motion by Sen. Halima Abdille calling upon the national Government to construct boarding facilities in at least three established schools in every ward in Arid and Semi-Arid areas as a means of facilitating nomadic children to access education. (d) The Motion by Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo calling upon the national Government to take deliberate measures to cascade research to lower levels of education right from childhood education level.
Next order! The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, the Senate adopts the Report of the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget on the 2017 Budget Policy Statement.
Next order! Order, hon. Senators. Before we proceed with that order, I have a Communication to make.
I would like to acknowledge the presence of hon. Gakure Monyo, Deputy Governor of Murang’a County, seated in the Speaker’s Gallery this afternoon. On behalf of the Senate and on my own behalf, I welcome him to the Senate and wish him well. I thank you. Do we have any Members seeking statements? What is it, Sen. Kembi-Gitura?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your permission, may I join you in welcoming the Deputy Governor of the County Government of Murang’a to the Senate this afternoon. I am sure this is the first time that he is sitting in the Speaker’s Gallery of the Senate. I welcome him to see in real life what we as Senators do towards protection of counties. I hope that he has watched satisfactorily the debate that emanated from the petition from the County of Nyamira about how seriously we take issues of corruption, and why we will not stop to deal with issues of corruption in the counties until counties become corruption free zones. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is important. I hope that we will see governors – I do not remember ever having seen a governor in the Speaker’s Gallery – come here more often. Something very interesting happened here. I think Sen. Wangari raised it; about a governor being summoned then coming with a heavy delegation of Members of County Assembly (MCAs.) That tells you very clearly about the negation of the duty to oversight by the county assemblies because if they are supporting the governor when an inquiry has been made against him on issues of impropriety in the county; and the people who are supposed to have the oversight role upon the governor, come with him to encourage him to withstand the trial and the inquiry by the Senate, then as Sen. Wangari said---
The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
We did not limit you, but I guess the trend now has been two minutes, so you must have exceeded.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me just to finish and say that it is important that we continue as a Senate going forward to see to it that corruption is dealt with firmly, and that the Deputy Governor, hon. Gakure Monyo, will take the message back to Murang’a County that this Senate is serious and is bent on dealing with corruption at all levels in the counties, and that we are not going to allow county assemblies that do not carry their oversight role seriously.This is because that is where devolution is going to be defeated and it must never ever be defeated, because it is the hope of this nation.
Order, Members. I see some interventions. Is it related to the communication?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join you and your deputy in welcoming the Deputy Governor for Murang’a County and also commend him for taking interest in the proceedings of the House. We know that we have had problems with governors because they are summoned to answer questions and none of them has ever taken any interest to come and see how the Senate operates. So I commend him for that.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to join you and my colleagues in welcoming the Deputy Governor of Murang’a County. I am happy to see him in the Speaker’s Gallery. The last time, I saw a story of him in the papers was that his office had been vandalized, and it had appeared as if it had something to do with the impeachment Motion of his governor in the Senate. I, therefore, hope that his office is up and running and that he is busy executing his responsibilities as the deputy governor and to call upon all governors to work hard and work together with their deputies.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as you know, Murang’a is my county of birth and I---
Order, Senator! How do you expect us to know?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thought I had pronounced it on this Floor over and over again, but I can inform the House that, yes, it is mycounty of birth and welcome the Deputy Governor of Murang’a County to the Senate, but most importantly, I want to allude to what has been touched by other Senators as a Members of the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee (CPAIC). I would like that the Deputy Governor to passage the message to the Governor of Murang’a that we are not interested in extraneous issues. We are only interested in finding out the truth about the monies allocated to the county. We have demonstrated that, even with the most stubborn governors. Just recently, we had the “Senator” of Machakos defy summons. He came and we have proved as a Committee that we are not witch-hunting. We have dealt with the matters as they are. We are still hopeful that the Governor of Kakamega can learn from the several governors who have changed their minds, and they will be able to come to clear audit queries as it should be.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir,
Hon. Ethuro): What is it Sen. Muthama? This is no business. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not whether you have heard Sen. Wangari referring to the Governor of Machakos as the Senator?
Is that what you said, Sen. Wangari?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I said Sen.Muthama, it must have been a slip of the tongue. I actually meant the Governor of Machakos who has since honoured the summons to appear before CPAIC. I apologize.
I reiterate that the conduct of the proceedings of any committee of the House is not the incentive for a witness to come. Witnesses come to the Senate on account of Article 125 of the Constitution. So, whether you like a Member or not is really immaterial. It is a constitutional duty that every holder of a public office must subscribe to.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Orders 45(2)(b) to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations concerning the deplorable living conditions in various police stations Administration Police camps and quarters for prison officers in the country. In the statement, the chairperson should state: (1) The various aspects and extent of police reforms being carried out by the Government. (2) Explain the impact of the proposed police reforms on the living conditions of officers housed in police and prison camps. (3) State measures that the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government is undertaking to ensure that the proposed reforms are fully realized considering the large number of complaints regarding the living conditions. (4) State whether there are monitoring and evaluation mechanism to ensure that the reforms are functional and the overall way forward of the police officers is improved.
The Chairperson, Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think this is a very straightforward request. We will endeavour to get it in a week’s time.
It is so ordered. Let us go to Statement A. The Member is not here. STATUS OF THE EQUALIZATION FUND
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Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Chairperson is in the House and is getting to his position. CONSTRUCTION OF KIRINYAGA SEWERAGE PLANT
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the matter of this Statement sought was discussed in my Committee today. This Statement was sought from the Committee on Roads and Transportation and apparently, they sent it back and said it is not in their docket. It was brought to our Committee today during our meeting. Looking at what is being sought about construction of sewerageplants; we observed that sewerage plants are these days constructed by counties. The Ministry of water and Irrigation no longer constructs sewerage plants within townships. As such, I needed your direction whether this statement should not go to the Committee on Devolved Government, which deals directly with the county governments. I seek your indulgence and guidance on this.
We will come back to it. Next Statement (c) by the Chairperson of the Committee on Education. PAYMENT OF SCHOOL FEES IN SCHOOLS/COLLEGES
Mr. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to 45 (2) (b), on Wednesday 20th July, 2016, Sen.(Prof.)Lonyangapuo requested for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Education regarding payment of school fees in various institutions, including secondary schools, Teachers Training Colleges (TTCs) and Kenya Medical Training Colleges (KMTCs). First, the Senator requested me to explain the policy guidelines of the Ministry of Education regarding payment of fees in the above mentioned institutions. The principals are expected to adhere to the guidelines which have been issued to them countrywide. For each year, a student, especially in college, is supposed to pay Kshs64, 472 spread across the three terms. Secondly, the Senator wanted me to clarify whether there was a requirement in place of fees to be paid annually instead of spreading it across the three terms of each academic year. There is a requirement for fees to be paid annually. Payment is spread across the three terms of each academic year. For the very needy students, principals are required to accept whatever amount of fees is available and allow the students to continue learning as guardians look for the balance. It has been noted that majority of the students admitted, particularly in TTCs, are from poor households. Many students complete the two-year training leaving a huge fees balance, and as a result, the TTCs are unable to meet their financial obligations. Thirdly, the Senator wanted me to explain whether the Ministry is aware that most school principals of the listed institutions of learning demand for full payment of fees to be done at the beginning of the first term and the remaining balance to be made in the second term, instead of spreading the payment in three equal installments per term. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Chair. Just state the amount.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the amount is Kshs64, 472 per annum.
Proceed, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Chairperson for bringing the response today, although it is several months late. I am surprised by the way the Chairperson has attempted to respond. He has evaded most of the questions that I asked. I asked about the secondary schools and TTCs in the entire Republic, but he has only concentrated on the TTCs. The practice today is that all secondary schools are demanding full payment of fees in the first term irrespective of where the students come from. He has not stated clearly whether there is a policy on the same. Also, he has not provided a list showing how much the different categories of secondary schools are supposed to pay as school fees. This House needs to know how parents are tasked by the principals to pay in full in the first term. Mr. Speaker, Sir, parents are told to pay fees through Mpesa and other electronic payment options due to their availability. I asked the Chairperson to state the policy on the same but he has stated that it is only TTCs that are allowed to use those options. I want the Chairperson to provide the fees structures and the policy. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is true that the contents in this Statement are for the TTCs. Separate guidelines were given to secondary schools. The total for secondary school fees is Kshs54,000, against that of TTCs which is Kshs64,472. It can be paid in three installments. These institutions need to collect this money because they cannot run without this it. This amount was arrived at as a result of there being a commission which was appointed by the President and all the stakeholders agreed that this amount of money be paid. As far as the issue of Mpesa is concerned, I have evidence that secondary school fees are also paid using Mpesa. Recently, they were advised by the Cabinet Secretary to follow and ensure that the money reaches the administration. I have done justice to your question.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the chairperson has not done justice to the question. The challenges on fees in public schools are two. First, some of the national schools in particular, have developed the tendency over the years to defy any directive that comes from the Ministry with regard to school fees. They, therefore continue to charge other fees, in effect becoming untouchable or sacred cows within the Ministry. What action will the Ministry take to ensure that schools like Alliance High and other national schools that consistently do not comply with these fees guidelines do so? Secondly, why do they want the fees to be paid at once? What is the rationale behind it? These are schools where people come in terms. Even banks allow one to pay in instalments. Why are we punishing parents?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Chairperson is not coming out very clearly. In this Statement, we asked about schools and colleges. Nowadays we do not have headmasters. We have principals for schools and training technical institutes (TTCs). I asked him to explain whether the Ministry is aware that most school principals and college principals demand full payment of fees. In the response, the Chairperson only says that as far as TTCs are concerned, the Ministry is aware that some principals demand full payment of fees at the beginning of the term. I do not know what he is trying to do by not coming out candidly. Secondary schools are very many in this Republic whereas TTCs are just about less than 50.
Order! How relevant is that?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, very relevant. Why is he evading to talk about the nerve centre where parents are about to suffer in January by being asked to pay full fees at once instead of three times in a year, which is legal? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Therefore, the issue is on why one should pay it all at once instead of three times regardless of the number of the institutions.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Ministry’s directives must be followed with tangible actions. Fees directives have been issued and schools like Alliance High have exceeded the fees deadline. A directive for a refund must be made. Is it possible that the Ministry walks the talk by making sure that parents are refunded or given a credit for the school fees that they have paid in excess of the guidelines offered by the Ministry? Otherwise the directive is like talking to birds.
Order, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.! For the benefit of the Chair, how does that happen?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, talking to birds is a phrase in English where you are talking to nobody. It is like playing a guitar to a goat. It does not make any sense. It is phraseology.
Very well. Chairperson!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the understanding here is that the schools and colleges demand fees. Fees must be paid. Whether one pays it in full or three installments, the requirement is that one pays Kshs54,000 for secondary and Kshs64,000 for college. That is what has been agreed in a policy issue guideline by the Ministry.
Order, Chairperson! You are confusing the House. What is the policy; to pay in installments for three terms or to pay at once?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the policy is that one pays an annual total school fees of Kshs54,000 for secondary and Kshs64,000 for TTCs. How one pays it is an arrangement between one as a parent and the principal. I have been a principal, and I have experienced this situation.
Order, Chairperson! You are just making your case worse. When you invoke that you were a principal before, it worsens. In your answer, you said that principals are expected to adhere to the guidelines. For each year, a student is expected to pay Kshs Kshs64,472 spread across the three terms. Where is the local arrangement here?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am talking about what I know and experience. To date, the principals have already issued fees for third term if it is the TTC.
What is it, Sen. Sang?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, is Sen. Karaba in order to allude to some experience that he has had which contradicts the policy that he has shared with us? He could have had that experience but it is the wrong way of doing things. Is he in order to contradict his own answer by giving his personal experience which is definitely wrong?
Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, a quick one, not another dissertation.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, is Sen. Karaba in order to imagine that he is the only one who has ever been a headmaster in this House? If it is true, his experience is very old. I do not know when he was a head teacher last. It may be 30 years The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo! Is there something you are trying to communicate but you are not also being candid? When was the last time you were a principal? Proceed, Sen. Karaba!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am talking about what is in the policy. The policy is that one pays Kshs54,000 for secondary and Kshs64,000 for TTCs. One can pay a certain amount for each term depending on private arrangements which can be done and it is in the guidelines. If one wants to pay the whole year, they can go ahead and pay. That is what some people do.
Order, Chairperson. This is a serious matter. There are few things that are very critical to manpower development of a country which also affects the income of parents. Every parent struggles to raise fees for their children. Each one of us here can confirm the veracity of these assertions. You are always called upon to fundraise and contribute to school fees. We did not want to get confused in a system of that nature. We want to make it abundantly clear that that is the correct position. You are giving the wrong position. The correct position is that there is an amount of money to be paid in one year. That amount of money should be spread across the three terms. Many fee statements have a fee structure for each of the three terms. So, tomorrow afternoon, you need to come with a clear statement and with sample of fees structures, including secondary school, because you have only given for the teachers training colleges. It might appear basic to you as a former principal, but with the poor Kenyans out there struggling to get their children to school is a matter of life and death. Chairman, I demand you take this very seriously.
Order, Chairman! You cannot be on your feet when I am on mine. Yours must freeze in appreciation of mine. So, tomorrow afternoon come with a comprehensive statement on the fee structures and the payment breakdown. Hon. Members, what was the next Statement? Statement (E), the Chairperson is gone. We will revisit it later. Next Statement (F). AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ASSISTANCE TO PASTORALIST COUNTIES
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I can see the Vice Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations who was eloquently handling the same matter last time is present.
Indeed, my apologies. I had not seen the Vice Chairperson because the Chairman usually sits in a very prominent location. Last time, I The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am sorry, I still do not have the statement with me. I have tried to get it from the relevant Ministry, but I have not succeeded. I will request to be given more time to get a response on this statement.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, last week, you had directed the Vice Chairperson to take this statement seriously and respond to it today after she had excused herself that she was unable to get it from the Ministry. How long will we entertain the Vice Chairperson of this honourable Committee? Yesterday, I was there and my people have been displaced. Therefore, I want to know what the Government has in store for us just like they had for Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs).
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You have been asked a question or you want it repeated?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have given the position of the Committee. As I had said earlier, we have tried to get this statement. Unfortunately, we do not have it. I am requesting Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo to give us more time.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You know the Constitution gives you powers if there is adamancy in releasing an answer. You need to apply those powers?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Vice Chairperson has referred to serious stern steps to be taken at certain stages but the Senator wants an answer. I think this is the point of taking these serious steps. According to her, she wants to move it forward, but up to when? Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo wants answers to the questions he raised. So, let the steps be taken now not on another day.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Maybe we are being too hard on the Vice Chairperson because, obviously, she cannot make the statement now. The steps cannot be made now since she is in the House. How long do you want to take to bring the answer to this question?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish the Vice Chairperson would provide the answer tomorrow as directed. Any more stories after tomorrow will be disapproved. We will wait for tomorrow and then deal with it from there.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You have put it well that you wish she could respond to the statement tomorrow. However, if all wishes were true, you know the rest of the sentence. Try and bring the answer tomorrow. We have to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Do you have the answer?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not have this one also. I would request to be given more time.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Can you bring it tomorrow, if possible?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will try my best.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. It is so ordered.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It looks like today is not a good day for me, but you will remember last time the Ministry requested for two weeks. However, I was requested by the Speaker to try and make sure that we have the answer this week. So, I have discussed the same with Sen. Muthama and I will try and persuade the Ministry to give us an answer together with the others.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Tomorrow?
Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): It is so ordered.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of order. This is the third time now that we are postponing this response. The issue here concerns a person who is locked in a foreign country and the family here really needs to know whether they can hire a lawyer to help him in the legal process. The delay is causing a lot of anxiety. It is my wish that the response is given tomorrow and I will ask for the indulgence of the Chair.However, if it is not there, commit the Committee through the Senate for the Cabinet Secretary of Interior and Coordination of National Government to appear on this matter.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): We cannot anticipate what will happen tomorrow. Let us hope you will bring the answer tomorrow and anticipate for the best.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we are not pushing for this matter because of the Chairperson, it is because someone somewhere is not doing his work yet he is being paid to do his work---
The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Muthama. That somebody somewhere is not our concern. It is you who is our concern because you are the one who asked for this Statement. We do not know about that somebody somewhere. Could we hear from the Chairperson of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights? The Chairperson is not around but I can see the Vice-Chairperson. Sen. Sang, do you have an answer for Sen. Wangari? THE PLIGHT OF RESIDENTS OF KASARANI MALEWA WARD IN GILGIL CONSTITUENCY
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we do not have an answer for this. As I indicated yesterday, this Statement was directed to our Committee and we directed the same to the Attorney-General’s Office. Then it appeared that it should have been taken to the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government and some bit of it should have gone to the Independent Boundaries and Electoral Commission (IEBC). We are pushing the Attorney-General’s Office for a response. However, we have written directly to the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government and to IEBC. We are doing everything that we can to ensure that we get an answer. I request Sen. Wangari to give us more time to allow us to get the response.
On a point of order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is your point of order, Sen. Wangari?
Yesterday, the Speaker directed that this issue be brought to this House because it is long overdue. I have waited for this response for over a month yet I do not hear any commitment from the Chairperson. He is not telling us when he will bring the response. We do not want to be caught up in a situation where there is some recruitment going on and the same problem recurs yet we have not mitigated the previous problem. I would like to hear from the Chairperson of what has changed from yesterday and what has he done to ensure that we can close this week with that matter resolved.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I understand the frustration of Sen. Wangari. I know that she is a Vice-Chairperson of another Committee and she appreciates that there is so much that you can do. I commit to Sen. Wangari that we will have a response before any other recruitment for the police, National Youth Service (NYS) or any other.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What if they announce that there is recruitment tomorrow afternoon?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will try.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. INCREASED NUMBER OF POLICE CHECK POINTS ON MAU-SUMMIT-SOTIK ROAD, KERICHO COUNTY
On a point of order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is your point of order Sen. Cheruiyot?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Last week on Wednesday, I requested for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations. The Speaker directed that it be on the Order Paper this afternoon.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Could you repeat what you just said?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was notifying you that last week on Wednesday, I requested for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations. The Speaker directed that the answer be brought today. Unfortunately, it is not on the Order Paper.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): It will be on the Order Paper tomorrow.
Tomorrow is okay.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Yes, tomorrow.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. ELEVATION OF PROVINCIAL SECONDARY SCHOOLS TO NATIONAL SCHOOL STATUS
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): We still have three more Statements. Could we have the response on the elevation of some provincial secondary schools to national school status from the Chairperson of the Committee on Education? It was sought by Sen. Kagwe.
Thank you Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Pursuant to Senate Standing Order No.45(2)(b); on Wednesday, 20th July, 2016, Sen. Kagwe requested for a Statement regarding the upgrading and the elevation of some former provincial schools to national school status. The Senator requested the Chairperson to state: 1) The number of national schools and the list of such schools per county in the country. The answer to that is; the number of former provincial schools elevated to national status is 85 going by the list of schools per county. I have 47 counties, with your permission, I can go through it.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Please, table the document.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there are two national schools per county except for Nairobi and Kiambu counties. If you so wish, I could go through it.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Just table the document.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it will be tabled.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Just comment on the status of Nakuru and Kiambu counties. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in Nairobi, we have Pangani Girls which has been elevated to national school status. Otherwise, there are quite a number of national schools in Nairobi County. It is the same thing in Kiambu County because we have a number of national schools there. We have the Alliance Boys’ and Alliance Girls’. In Nakuru County, we have Nakuru Boys’ and Nakuru Girls’. We then have two national schools in every county. The number of old national schools are 18. We also have 18 new national schools. These include Mang’u and Starehe Girls’. 2) The Senator also wanted to Chairperson to state how much money was allocated to each school to enable them transform to national school status. The answer to that is; the amount of money allocated to each school to transform them to national school status was to Kshs25 million. Each of the 18 old national schools was allocated Kshs48 million. 3) The Senator also wanted the Chairperson to explain the rationale that guided the aforementioned allocation in (1) above. The rationale that guided the aforementioned allocation was the need to establish enough national schools. It was as a result of; i) The Sessional Paper No. 1 of 2005. ii) Continuous demand for national schools places by the public iii) Presidential directive in January 2011 for the Ministry to establish additional national schools. The Sessional Paper No. 1 of 2005 outlined the policy framework for expanding access, equity and quality of education. In addition, in the Constitution of Kenya 2010, the education sector has been charged with the responsibility of fostering national unity and social cohesion. This is besides offering quality education and preparing the learners for the job market. In the Sessional Paper, the Government through the Ministry of Education was to work towards establishment of two national schools, one for either gender in counties that had none. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the objectives here were:- (1) To enhance access and ease pressure on the demand for Form One places in already existing national schools. (2) To enhance national cohesion and integration. (3) To stimulate academic excellence and improve education standards in all counties for national development (4) To improve and expand infrastructural facilities for the provision of quality education. (5) To enhance equity in line with the new Constitution. The Ministry of Education planned to elevate provincial secondary schools to national status in three phases of 30:30:27. The Ministry developed criteria to determine schools to be elevated. The criteria is as follows:- (a) Consistent good performance in KCSE exams. (b) Equity:- (i) Geographical distribution. (ii) Affirmative action: in exceptional cases, where no school in the entire county meets the set criteria, affirmative action would be applied. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first and foremost, I congratulate the Government for the policy to expand the national schools across all counties. It is a good thing, especially towards what the Chairman has just said on national cohesion. In fact, I am believer that many schools as possible should be made national schools. Our children should live and integrate with each other from as early an age as possible, so that the future Kenya can be stable and less tribal than the current one. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, having said that, I want to seek clarification on two things. First, the Chairman has told us that 18 ‘old’ national schools like The Alliance Boy High School, Alliance Girls High School, Maseno High School and others were given Kshs48 million per school. The new ones like Kagumo High School, Lugulu Girls School and others were given Kshs25 million. Actually, logic would have it that it should be the reverse, because The Alliance High School is already established; it already has the infrastructure. Kagumo High School does not have the infrastructure for a national school. This question arose when I went to Kagumo High School as the guest of honour on their parents’ day. I realised the stress the school is in as a result of the shortage of funding. There are students from all over the country and their boarding facilities are bad. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am not against the Alliance Schools getting the Kshs48 million because there can never be too much money in those kinds of schools. What I am against, and I seek that it must be corrected, is that at the minimum, they The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Chairman, hold on for another one.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am not ‘another one.’
The Temporary Speaker referred to me as ‘another one.’ Was it ‘another question’ or ‘another Senator’?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Wetangula!
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am sorry, but I think the rules apply to all of us.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order!
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, allow me to seek the following clarifications. In addition to what the distinguished Senator for Nyeri has raised, I have three or four questions to ask. First, we have no issues on the criteria to have two schools per county as a base. However, where is equity when a county as large as Kakamega County, with a population of over two million people, is given two national schools and another county, with a population of 110,000 people is also given two national schools? I thought the more rational approach would have been two schools basic for each county and upgrade the number in accordance with the population. Counties that had many schools like Kiambu County did not deserve to get any more national schools because they were already oversupplied. However, there are counties like Kisumu, Machakos, Nyeri, Kakamega, Bungoma and Nandi and others, which should have been more than two national schools, so that we can accommodate the population. Secondly, the Ministry went to counties like Nyeri and took the best performing schools that have had universities entrance rate of almost a 100 per cent. I can tell you of Kamusinga High School in my county, which fields 187 students and in any exam, the last one would have a C plus. That means every student qualified to join a university. Now that it has been given national status, standards are being compromised by drawing children from everywhere. We have no problem with that, but admit children who are qualified, so that the schools are not pulled down in their performance in the name of giving them national status. That is what should be done.
I have visited these schools. There was no accountability for the Kshs25 million that they were given for a start. Half of the money was stolen by the boards. Nothing came up. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): No. I have to limit you. Please, seek clarification.
Thank you, Sir. I am seeking clarification. If you go to The Alliance Boys School, the residents of Kiambu County alongside the national streams have built a full stream to take children from the county. We have done the same in Friends School Kamusinga. Now, children from such places are taken to a place where he will be lucky if, at the end, he will even qualify to go to a diploma college. We want as you elevate schools to the national level, pump in money and give them all the facilities that they require. It is because “national” as a description does not help the school, if it has no facilities. Lastly, can the Chairperson tell this House---
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): So far, everything that you have said did not seek any clarification.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that man is so brilliant. He has picked the questions already in all these.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! Sen. Wetangula, God forbid that we will have such a President in this country. You least qualify to even present yourself as a presidential candidate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not want to altercate with the Chair. However, when the Chair says such outrageous and preposterous things---
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You again repeat what you said yesterday?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have to protest in the strongest terms possible. We are on air and you cannot dare address me like that, whether you are on the Chair or not. I will not take this. Jokes aside; this is a House of honour. You cannot use a seat of privilege to insult me. I will not take this.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is it, Sen. Sang?
If you want you can send me out. I will not take this. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on several occasions based on the emotive nature of the debate in this House, it has never happened that a Member would dress down the Speaker of this House. Even if the Senator has issues with the directions of the Chair, there are better ways and times to raise those issues. If we are on air, the same Member then disparages the entire House by dressing down the Chair in the manner that he has done. Is he in order to do so?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Hon. Members of the Senate, communication is a two way process. Respect is a two way process. However much English you may know, it is bad to talk in idioms or a satirical manner to demean the intelligence of any Member in this House. As the Temporary Speaker, I will hit you hard when you show such tendencies. I will not care whether we are on air or not. I have a job to preside over this House and it must be presided to run with decorum.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for that direction. In conventional terms, the Speaker does not participate in debate. Let me make my last point. Could the Chairman, in his response, tell this House whether he will engage the Ministry to ensure that no schools, coupled with adequate resources are promoted to national level, but with clear criteria that in densely populated areas, a specific quota is set aside for children from those counties? This is so that they are not dispossessed of the opportunity to go to schools that their parents have painstakingly built over the period.
.: On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. With your permission, I will seek just one clarification. Following what Sen. Kagwe has said, what exactly is this money supposed to do? Each of the 18 old national schools was allocated Kshs48 million and the newly elevated ones got Kshs25 million. I am asking this because in the case of Makueni County, Mbooni Girls High School does not have water. They have been calling all of us for fundraising to build laboratories and dormitories. So, what exactly was this money supposed to do if at all it was ever disbursed?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): That is the kind of clarification that I expect from Members of this House.
.: Thank you for the compliment.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Not stories of giving the Chair a difficult time of trying to see what exactly you want to say. Clarifications.Very well, Sen.Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. It is certainly a very warm afternoon.
I think the issues raised regarding the fees, especially by the Senator for Nyeri are very important. Would you tell us whether, after these schools have been elevated into national schools and Kshs25 million pumped into each of them several years down the line, there has been any evaluation on the performance of these schools? Are they still The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have two clarifications to seek from the Chairman. One, as said by Sen. Wetangula, some of the schools that were elevated were schools that communities, leaders and counties had worked hard to improve their facilities. Kapsabet Boys in my county is an example. People lost their livestock to build this school and then the national Government elevated them to national schools. Even some of the local arrangements where the leadership had invested in getting facilities to create a class or two for the locals ended up being eliminated. In the last two financial years, we have seen the Ministry give finances to support infrastructure in schools. Now that these counties lost some of their best investments in terms of the provincial schools, is it possible for the national Government to create one or two of such schools and upgrade their facilities to match the status of those schools that we lost? This is to avoid a situation where needy children from those schools or counties are unable to get quality education from the schools that we lost.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will answer all the questions. The first one is about the amount of money given. I stated in the response that Kshs25 million was given to the new national schools and Kshs48 million to the old ones. That is the way the Government found it fit. We thank the Government for coming up with this policy because in previous years, we have not had this kind of development. There are schools in some counties which are given Kshs25 million to start off. As I respond to Sen. Kagwe’s concern, this is a process of upgrading schools which does not start off within the first one year and stops. It continues. So, the Kshs25 million may be given this year; next year they might get Kshs20 million and the other year, they might get even Kshs30 million, going by what is called evaluation of schools, performance and the population demand of that area. The other issue is upgrade in population. We have heard about Kakamega where population is high. It is important to appreciate the two schools which were not factored in have been considered, and more will be considered.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Mr. Chairperson, if I heard correctly, the question was; what was the rationale of allocating Kshs48 million to already very developed schools and allocating Kshs25 millions to less developed schools. If I may quote Sen. Kagwe, “the inverse should have been the practice.”
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the rationale is that even the established schools had not reached the threshold of the population optimum of the students. Some of these old schools – you can hold me right or responsible for the utterance – a school like The Alliance Boys High School had two or three streams. The three streams were not able to cope with demand of the pupils and the population in the neighbourhood and the country. So, for them to continue with the standards, of course, on infrastructure, they had to be given more so that they can add more classrooms, facilities, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is it, Sen. Kagwe?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The Chairperson on the Floor is not just the Chairperson of the Committee on Education, which I am a Member. He is also, as he well knows; a former headmaster of one of the schools involved in this thing. He is also a Senator and understands the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution. Secondary schools are not devolved functions. Secondary schools fall under the national Government. Is the Chairperson in order to speak so irrationally about a subject that is so clear? When he says that there is rationale in giving established schools more money, would I be in order to propose to the Chairperson to reconsider his answers very carefully, given his background and the actual situation on the ground? He is wavering from one end of the pendulum to the other. He is totally irrational in his inconsistent answers.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is it, Sen. Wetangula?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Please, prod the Chairperson to move away from that irrational position that he has taken. I thank the Senator for Nyeri for bringing this because it is very important. Could he also – I do not expect him to have this now – take time and bring to this House statistics of every school from the time they were elevated to now, the progression of performance, the population of students, number of teachers in each school and the cost of maintaining those schools?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the question of expense is not a question of an opinion. Maybe that is where Sen. Kagwe is coming from. We cannot say, logically, that it makes sense when it does not when the criteria is not there. It is a technical question. It can only be answered by technical expertise.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): If I listened to the Chairperson carefully, he said the established schools had more streams and the addition of students required establishment even of more facilities that required even more funding. That is his argument. However, you cannot casually make that kind of opinion which is yours. That is why another question, properly designed---
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, but even then my additional question was; even the Kshs0 to Kshs18 million is a figure. It is a well calculated budget whether it is Kshs18, 25 or 48 million, there is a criterion. That criterion cannot be based on an opinion that is so general because a school in Mbooni is not the same as a school in Mwea.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Mr. Chairperson, what do you have to say about that? If you do not have that with you, just say so, then, I will decide what to do.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that is what I am saying. I do not have the figures. As I said earlier, land, water, telephone and roads were part of the criteria used to identify the schools to be upgraded to national status.
On a point of information, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Who do you want to inform
Mr. TemporarySpeaker, Sir, this is a very crucial and important aspect of the management of our educational system in this country, and towards cohesion for our nation. So, I wantto inform the Chairperson that all secondary schools in the second category (B) moving from category A which is the 18 schools are suffering very seriously. You remember that one of the issues that the Chairperson raised very eloquently was that more money was going to be given to these schools. If the Chairperson would undertake, and I am a member of his Committee, so I can assist him The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): This is a very emotive subject on matters of education. Just like the former question which raised that kind of emotion, I do not want to recap or remind you on the comments of the Speaker who was presiding. Elevation of schools to national level has its own emotional brackets that must be carefully considered, and this Senate demands some answers. However, I will not want the Chairperson to hide under our own Standing Orders that the lapse of this Session will save him. I, therefore, demand that tomorrow, you answer all the supplementary questions that have been raised. It is so ordered.
Senator Billow, you have a Statement in reply to Sen. Hargura. STATUS OF THE EQUALIZATION FUND
Mr. Temporary Speaker Sir, with regard to the Equalization Fund, Sen. Hargura asked how much money had been allocated to the Fund since the promulgation of the Constitution. The table has been provided in the Statement. The total entitlement for the six years is Kshs20 billion but Kshs12.4billion has been provided so far.
Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Hargura.
Mr. Temporary Speaker Sir, I have received the answer and gone through it. I would like to seek some clarifications. It is very clear on the issue of how much has been generated, how much has been budgeted and what is outstanding. We hope the Ksh7.68 billion will be forthcoming. On the identification of the projects, the answer states that it was done through National Government structures and MTEF Budget process which entails public participation. At no time, as a Senator from one of these counties, did I come across any invitation of this nature, whereby I was supposed to participate in a process of identifying these projects. I do not think any Senator from the 14 affected counties has been invited to this kind of a process. These projects have been identified by the Members of the National Assembly which churned the funds which are supposed to benefit counties so as to bridge the gaps of marginalization. Could the Chairperson clearly state at what point this consultations were done because I am not aware? I do not think the identified projects were the priorities of my county. For the last two days, there has been an advertisement that on 5th and 6th, there will be consultations to be held at the affected counties by Government officers headed by Principal Secretaries. What is the purpose of those consultations? Already, the Government has identified projects for us which are not our priority and they claim to do public consultation. Is that not a process of sanitization of what they have done wrong by being arm-twisted---
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Let us not assume what is supposed to be. The Chairperson will answer that. Before the Chairperson answers, we can take another clarification from Sen. Wetangula.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I know that my Chairman in the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget has strong views on this matter. I know that the Statement that he has read to this House is not in sync with his thinking. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I will not allow that. We would rather he makes that kind of statement.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Equalization Fund was set up under Article 204 of the Constitution. This Senate engaged in the process of identifying 14 counties; the dispossessed of the dispossessed and the marginalized of the marginalized. They include Mandera, Wajir, Kitui, Tana River and Kilifi counties, where there is poverty beyond believe. We consulted with Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) and agreed. This is a clear case of indictment of the Houses of Parliament for allowing themselves to be captured by the Executive and the National Assembly hijacking the role of this Senate. What we have now is not an Equalization Fund as envisaged under the Constitution, because the National Assembly has sat and decided that every constituency will have a share of the Equalization Fund. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I hope that Members of the Senate will not pass the Bill at Order No.13 that tries to sanitize that irrational decision. We may have a pocket of poverty in Kiambu, but it is born out of greed and neglect; it is not because of historical injustices. We are addressing historical injustices. Could the Chairperson tell us whether the Committee that he chairs can recommend to the Senate to encourage the Speaker of this House to lead the Senate, like he has done before, to go to the Supreme Court to challenge the irrational decision in the manner in which the Equalization Fund is being managed? I have heard roadside pronouncements from the Executive in rallies that they will send Equalization Fund to do a particular project in a particular place. That is not the way to go. Could the Chairperson clarify?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. I will encourage shorter clarifications, so that the Chairperson can focus. What Sen. Wetangula has said is true, but he has said it with very many words.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am concerned that the national Government has published in the dailies what they call public participation on this. The Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget has raised serious concerns about this Fund. One of the concerns is that 10 per cent of the money that the Chairperson has mentioned will go to administration. That is why they can splash headlines and spend Kshs1 million on advertisements, yet the Fund is supposed to be used for needy courses. Is the Chairperson satisfied that the proposals that we made as a Committee to the Senate were not that important for purposes of ensuring that they came back or de- gazetted them? The proposals ensured that, one, county governments are involved, two, that the involvement of the respective counties and people who are affected were put in the board to ensure that this matter is not left to the national Government.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the clarifications that have been sought are very important. To start with the last one, I am not satisfied that the National Treasury has taken into account the concerns of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget and this House with regard to the regulations for the Equalization Fund. It is a matter that we are still pursuing. The National Treasury has been elusive on this matter and it seems to be under siege on this matter, but we will continue to insist that the 10 per cent and other issues that we have raised are addressed by the National Treasury. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Wetangula, in his opening remarks, tried to describe your feelings on the issue of this Fund, and it is in the HANSARD. Do you want to comment on it or we leave it as such?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have already commented on this and that is why I said, my own county. In the Senate Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget, we have raised a number of issues on this Fund and the way it is being run. In fact, it is within our plan to get the National Treasury to come before the Committee and pursue some of the issues we have raised. What they are doing is not in line with the regulations.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as it has come out from the comments by the Chairperson and the other Members, the way these funds are being planned for is not in line with what it is supposed to happen. I agree with the Chairperson that he needs to summon the Cabinet Secretary for National Treasury. This will help these things to come out clearly and those people from marginalized areas can get these funds to do what Kenyans thought when they passed the Constitution.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. I see a point of order by Sen. Mositet.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the purpose of the Equalization Fund was purely to bring those marginalized areas in our country at par with those that are perceived to be developed. Going by my own county, the poverty survey which was done The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Mositet! I gave you the opportunity to seek clarification not to debate the issue.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we are talking about the National Treasury going to the perceived poor or marginalized counties, however, we still have quite a number of counties which are more marginalized than the ones the National Treasury and the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) had identified as the most marginalized. There is no way one can say that Narok County is more marginalized than Kajiado County and neither can one say that Narok is more marginalized than Makueni or Kitui counties. For that purpose, we need to review and map out the most marginalized areas in this country rather than going with the list given by the CRA.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as per the CRA workings, the 14 counties were identified and that is the first one. There will be a review that will be done next year. Probably some will be dropped and new ones will be added. A case was raised about Mwingi Constituency among others. He is right that that is not the final list. CRA will do the entire review for that and hopefully that will be taken into consideration.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. That is the end of Statement Time. I will defer Order Nos.8 to 20 on the Order Paper. What is it Sen. Karaba?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, earlier on, there was a ruling by the Speaker that the Statement be revisited to establish in which Ministry the Statement falls. Is it the Ministry or Lands Housing and Urban Development? The Chairperson of the Committee on Lands and Natural Resources denounced it and pushed to the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructure. At the same time, he talked about the Committee on Devolved Government and that it could fall under the Ministry of Devolution. It has not been established which Ministry will handle this.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Mositet, who do you want to inform?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to inform the Chair.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): The Speaker does not want to be informed by you at all.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is on the same matter.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You could use the point of order and figure out how to put your information.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Would I be in order to let my colleague, Sen, Karaba, know that the sewerage and treatment works in the whole country are done through water services boards mapped out in the whole country? These water services boards are directly under the Ministry of Water and Irrigation. For example, we have a very big sewerage project in Kiserian which just started last year under the supervision of the Athi Water Service Board and is also under the Ministry of Water and Irrigation. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. My office will look at that issue and direct the question to the appropriate committee. Let us leave it at that. I will defer Order Nos.8 to 20 on the Order Paper.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): This Bill was being seconded at the time we stopped debate. Sen Wetangula was on his feet. He had 55 minutes to go. I saw him within the premises.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I request that you use Standing Order No.1 to allow Sen. Wetangula who seems to have responded to an urgent call which could well be a call of nature because all his documents are here. He just went behind the Speaker’s Chair. Kindly use your powers to allow him to speak when he comes back, probably, shortly.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): It is an interesting request, indeed. Usually, it is the Speaker who can request for such. However, the way it has been eloquently put by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I am thinking about it and will give my decision in a moment.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank you for that direction. I have requested the Office of the Serjeant-At-Arms to go behind and make sure that Sen. Wetangula comes quickly.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. Thank you, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, for being so patriotic to see the importance of this Bill. Again, being a The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. It is unfortunate the Mover and proponent of this Bill is not here. I had just started contributing to the Local Content Bill (Senate Bill No.13 of 2013) and I had given a short preview on why local content as defined in the Bill should be expanded beyond the extractive industry. I had said that we need local participation. In fact, the term that is easily understood by everybody is local participation where Kenyans have an opportunity to participate in ownership and benefit of resources. When you go to countries like China, Cuba and others, the local participation is by the state. If you trace our history back, you are, probably, not old enough to know, but Sen. Karaba would. In the old days, county councils were the custodian of public good. They owned property on behalf of the public. They invested on behalf of the public. I do not know whether Sen. Karaba benefitted, but many people of his age went to school on county council bursaries.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I want to apologise to my party leader for interrupting him, but I just want the record to be straight. Did you hear my party leader say that you are not old enough to know about the history of county councils in this country? Given that county governments ended only four years ago, could he be imputing improper motive on the Speaker?
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. Sen. Wetangula, I heard you clearly and I was waiting for you to finish and for sure maybe you could have been wiser to say before the grabbing mania went into the councils. Otherwise, I was born so many years ago and I saw it happening. You have to withdraw.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was coming to that. What I meant was even I who is much older than you, did not benefit from the bursaries of county councils because they had already been phased out through corruption. So, I did not mean to be derogatory. You are much younger than me, but I did not even benefit. That is I why I am saying that the Senator for Kirinyaga probably went to school on bursaries of county council because he is much senior citizen than we both are.
For the record, in fact, what you are saying is quite correct. Somebody like the late (Prof.) Saitoti benefited out of that for him to go to America. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, my own father is now 87 years old. He went through school on county council bursaries up to Massachusetts State University in the US to get a degree in those early years which was fully paid. I am saying where to place local interest, local content because looking here, there is a real danger in this Bill, the devil is in the detail. If you look at this Bill, we are trying to create oligarchs because what Sen. Moi is trying to do, even as the idea is good, the rich are salivating for oil and minerals. There is no way a Masaai man from Kajiado will have an opportunity to participate in extractive industry. It is the rich who are going to get richer and keep the poor poorer. So this so called local content must be defined very clearly. You will see as I develop my submissions why the devil is in the details. Those good old days, in 1959, the County Council of Elgon Nyanza, the successor entitled to Bungoma, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale can tell you, led money to her Majesty’s Government in England from local management of resources. Today, as we went into devolution, greed had entered all county councils and everybody fought to become a councillor for only one singular agenda – to steal public land, get contracts and money directly. By the time we went to devolution, even the outfit that we put in place called Transition Authority (TA), they stole even more. They stole assets, public land, public houses and they did all manner of things. Then they handed over the button to governors who are stealing even more. So, we have a serious problem of probity in this country and we really need as we pass any law, Waswahili
We have been roughed to the extent where we live under permanent fear of watching each other, in law, we ask “who will watch the watchers?” You send a watchman and you have to send another watchman to watch the watchman whether he is going to steal or not and you have to send a third person to watch the man watching the watchman to see whether they will join together to steal public property. That is why when you look at this Bill - I hope our good clerks will pass the HANSARD to Sen. Moi - first of all, the establishment of a Local Content Development Committee is a good idea. However, I wish that we are setting up a public corporation and not a committee. This Committee, as we go through the Bill is going to be a department of government; a department controlled 90 per cent literally by the Ministry concerned. If you look at the history of this country, all these tycoons you see in central Kenya, the likes of Kiereini, the late Michuki, the late Philip Ndegwa and others, all of them were public servants. They were recruited from school without a second suit, walked into offices and worked for themselves instead of working for the country. They are owners of property in this town, county and everywhere. They have all been public servants who spent their time working for themselves and not for the public. So, when you talk of local content, I would want to see that if the minerals in Kajiado – and we provide for local content as we were providing – the stakeholder for that local content is the County Government of Kajiado. Your governor today may not be good, but I know your governor is not a bad person. That when the bad one leaves, there will be a good one. Nothing lasts forever. All the current thieves will go either through natural attrition, some will go to jail midstream or they will be invaded and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. Wetangula, just stick to the debate on the Local Content Bill. Do not personalize some of these matters.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to encourage you to google on your phone and read the definition of a hustler. I did not call him a hustler. He is the one who calls himself a hustler. We shall soon start using the alternatives of a hustler as defined in the Oxford English Dictionary. Clause 9 states that the committee shall, within a period of six months from the date of its constitution, develop and keep a regular review, a comprehensive register of all equipment and service categories required to effectively supply the needs of the extractive industry. It also states that the committee shall assess the capacity of the local industry to supply the goods and services. Again, we should not be too intrusive in private enterprise. If somebody buys a gypsum mine in Kajiado County, it is on the white hill, on your left as you go to Namanga, and invests his equipment, he is a private investor. This is because he has invested to make profit or losses. The state has no business to go and take an inventory of his equipment. There is nobody who is foolish enough who could borrow money internationally to come and to invest just to make a loss. Knowing Kenya, we could probably take an inventory and insist that we should be the suppliers of spare parts to private enterprises. We should not be so intrusive into private enterprises, so that we let them grow. The membership of the committee is where the devil is. The chairperson shall be appointed by the Cabinet Secretary in accordance with subsection (2). If the chairperson is appointed by the Cabinet Secretary, we should have that person nominated by Cabinet Secretary vetted by Parliament, meaning, both Houses, like in the case of the Inspector General of Police. Such a person can be subsequently appointed chairperson by the Cabinet Secretary. Otherwise, people will appoint their relatives. I am sure you know that the brother of hon. Adan Duale is a Principal Secretary in this Government and the brother of so-and-so is serving in another position; they have shared the country unashamedly. Unqualified people are now sitting in places of qualification because they have their brothers in Parliament. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
You are implying that I know that hon. Adan Duale has a brother who is a Principal Secretary. I do not know that.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, since you are not a central player in the Jubilee Government, you are unlikely to know that.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Bill then says:- “The Principal Secretary responsible for matters relating to petroleum and natural gas or a representative designed in writing.” Again, the Principal Secretary responsible for petroleum and natural gas should not sit on this committee, because this is a professional outfit that advises the executive. The executive cannot advise itself. The tycoons in this country are all the Ministers and Permanent Secretaries at Independence. So, we are just creating an ‘eating’ House. All these fellows we are listing will abandon their jobs and concentrate on local content, because they are the local content. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in fact, it has loaded many people, including the Principal Secretary in charge of petroleum and natural gas, the Principal Secretary responsible for matters relating to finance or a representative designated in writing, the Principal Secretary responsible for matters relating to industry and enterprise development. All those people have no business in this committee. This is like an ombudsman; it will check on the conduct of public officers. It will check whether public officers are using their offices for self-gain or to serve the public. Therefore, this corporation - if Sen. Moi will agree to change it - must have independent people. We can have nominating entities like the Kenya Private Sector Alliance (KEPSA), Central Organisation of Trade Unions (COTU) and other bodies. I agree with Clause 10 (1) (e) which talks about the chairperson of the Council of Governors, only to the extent that the Council of Governors is represented. We should have a nominee of the Council of Governors, but vetted and approved by Parliament. The nominee will then sit in the committee. What we are doing is that every chairperson of the Council of Governors will have a stake in any enterprise that emerges at his or her tenure. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have seen somewhere the Bill says that this committee serves for four years. Under the law, the chairperson of the Council of Governors serves for a maximum of two years. It, therefore, means that when the chairperson of the Council of Governors leaves, another one will take over and so on. We will lose continuity. The Council of Governors, as a custodian of the interests of Kenyans in the counties, should sit and nominate two or three persons. In my opinion, the Principal Secretaries should exit and allow for this. We will then vet, with gender parity, and put them in the committee to protect the interests of resources based in counties. We should avoid a situation where people sitting in Nairobi revoke titles in Lamu and allocate themselves the same land, redraw old blocks or allocate themselves forests and sell the land. We must move away from this, because this committee is purely and simply a public watchdog. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Now, they are the ones saying---
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale!
Now, they are the ones saying: “ Kila mtu abebe msalaba wake .” Na yeye pia abebe msalaba wake . What is good for the goose is good for the grander. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we must resist the temptation for the executive to invent itself and run such an important organization. The Bill says that an operator, in No.20, “Shall, before applying for or bidding for a license permit or interest and before engaging in any extractive activity prepare and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
Mr.Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is African culture that a parent taps the shoulder of a good child. Could you use Standing Order No.1 to congratulate the Coalition for Reforms and Democracy (CORD) for keeping the Senate going since 4.00 o’clock?
Sen. Wetangula): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is only fair.
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, when the Senate Minority Leader is given one hour, he should utilize it all. He fell short by five minutes. However, all in all, he did very well and I think the better part is the one where he has said that he will put up a memorandum in writing. Otherwise, congratulations and you have always done well.
Mr. TemporarySpeaker, Sir, I would like to thank Sen. Moi for coming up with this Bill since it legislates on an issue which we have been grappling with, we who come from counties which are once in a while visited by these investors. In my county, we have had three oil explorations, the first one being in 1988/89 by an American oil company, Amoco, then we had Tullow Oil and Africa Oil and we now have other multinationals engaging in use of our resources like the wind and we expect solar and all that in the future. We have been struggling as locals on how to get our local content from these mega projects but there was no legislation on how we could go about that. I can remember the case of Africa Oil, where it took the communities to block the roads and demonstrate for them to come and listen to the communities so that they could develop this kind of an agreement on what the community could supply. If there was this kind of legislation, then this would not have happened because as the Bill indicates, the company would have even submitted to the local content development committee what their local content will be before they go out and do the actual extraction. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
I will defer putting the question.
Since Sen. Kagwe is not here, we will defer the Bill.
It is now 6.30 p.m., the time to adjourn the Senate. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 1st December, 2016, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate