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"id": 1133648,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1133648/?format=api",
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Homa Bay, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Peter Kaluma",
"speaker": {
"id": 1565,
"legal_name": "George Peter Opondo Kaluma",
"slug": "george-peter-opondo-kaluma"
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"content": "It says that the State or a person seeking to justify a particular limitation shall demonstrate to the court, tribunal or other authority that the requirements of this Article have been complied with. The point I am making is that, if you fear, there may be a violation of the right to fair trial, make an amendment to the specific clause which is not mentioned here and we will delete it at the Committee stage. However, do not torpedo debate by the people. When we had the NYS issues in the country, how many lawyers were mentioned and how did they avoid the trap? They did so under the advocate-client confidentiality. Recently, Governor Sonko, the title is still his leaked what he calls the “Sonko leaks”. If you go to YouTube part 5, in a single day, an advocate’s account is getting remissions in terms of hundreds of millions. Would that not raise suspicions? Should that advocate in keeping with an open society not tell us the source of the money and what it is meant for? What is the problem in doing that? What is the problem with that? We can count and count but the fact of the matter is that the advocate-client confidentiality we were talking about in the old days, is not the circumstance which we are operating under today. It is a big issue. You intercepted with clarification when I was going to the first question you raised. That provision does not say “on suspicion”. There is a phrase before it called, “on reasonable suspicion”. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, you had the benefit of studying in better schools than me. You studied in a school owned by our second President, Kabarak High School, while I was in some village somewhere struggling. Tell these people being senior to me that there is a way in law we define “reasonable”. This is something Hon. Duale cannot understand. So, before you say “reasonable”, and remember in first year we could study it for a whole semester what a “reasonable man’s test” is, “the man on the climb a bus”, the man on a matatu going somewhere, those tests have to be met. However, that has to be read together with the provisions of Article 47 on the right to fair administrative action. Go and look at the ideals there. This is so that whether it is a court, or a Parliament as we are sitting now, we are waiting for Hon. Kimunya to persuade us whether the limitation of the right to privacy is something that complies with Article 24. We do not need to intercept them. This confidentiality thing was a rule in England and I can tell you I will be speaking later on this matter on the merits. Even in the United Kingdom, they have done this thing. Subject to compliance with their constitutional regime, which is unwritten, I will tell you how many states even in Africa are here. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, as I end, let us make a choice as a House. I want to beg we make a choice as a House. We are either joining Kenyans in fighting corruption or we want to be people to sustain avenues of purveying it. It is as simple as that. Therefore, the line is drawn on this Bill. You are either a money launderer or an advocate keeping those monies or you are a well- meaning Kenyan knowing the place of money laundering and you are making provisions to improve these Bill to ensure those things you call confidentiality can be allowed to some extent while we also require lawyers to make disclosures where necessary. In addition, I can confirm I will be supporting this Bill. However, with amendments I will speak to. Let us not kill the Bill unless you are on the other side. We are losing so much money to corruption and our business environment is no longer competitive. If you compare the losses in business we are having to Rwanda, Uganda and even small countries, this is because our environment allows money laundering and these small things. I beg you Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, you were with me when piracy started in Somalia. These mansionettes in South B were going for between Kshs3 and 4 million in 2004-2005. When piracy The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
}