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{
    "id": 1371851,
    "url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1371851/?format=api",
    "text_counter": 218,
    "type": "speech",
    "speaker_name": "Sen. Mungatana, MGH",
    "speaker_title": "",
    "speaker": null,
    "content": "process server, met some difficulties. In the first instance, even reaching the Inspector General of Prisons was very difficult. On the second day when we sat down, we said that the officer in charge of Shimo La Tewa Prison would be personally liable if this person does not appear. There was a change because people realised it is personal. In fact, we said, it is not the Director General of Prisons, it is that person. Madam Temporary Speaker, what the officer did, he now made access possible for the process server from Parliament to effect service on Paul McKenzie. The only difficulty that came was the time schedule because the lawyers needed more time and so on. However, if we had gone through the whole process through the Director General of Prisons in Nairobi, it would not have worked. This has been demonstrated in various arguments here that Committee of this House have a difficulty in effecting the attendance of witnesses to appear before them. I fully support the thinking behind this amendment and we must enhance the powers. Madam Temporary Speaker, we need to do two things, which hon. colleague, Sen. Osotsi, has captured; we need to fine these people and we need to attempt to effect arrest. When we talk about fining, the enhancement to Kshs2 million is not sufficient. I would propose, and I know the figure of Kshs5 million has been given here, but I know that if we made it to Kshs10 million, so that the Committee can decide what is reasonable in between. It will enhance the seriousness of this matter. I remember when we fined Dr. Johansen only Kshs500,000, he appeared and explained that it was not him who refused to come to the Committee, but it was his Minister who told him not to appear before us. Having listened to his plea and having been a very cooperative person all along, we decided to lift that. I am trying to drive at one point that the amendment must be clear, not just to enhance the fine. It has to be very clear that it is personal to the witness so that that the gravity of the thing of the whole process is captured. I say so because the amendment that is proposed in this Bill says that the fine is a civil debt recoverable under summary procedure. That is what Sen. Osotsi has said. The sponsor of the Bill needs to look at it afresh, so that it is specific to the witness and it is not recoverable as a civil debt, but recoverable from that particular witness as a debt so that if it is a Government officer, it should go even further to give power. I hope Sen. Osotsi will capture this. We can also work with him at the first stage to make it such that, there is direct power ordered to attach the salaries and benefits of any officer who has been found guilty of failing to follow the instructions of the Committee of the House. This is so that if we are talking about a governor, and a fine of Kshs5 million or Kshs10 million has been put, then, there should be another provision that allows the attachment of their salary. This should also be within a certain period of time so that the gravity of this issue is captured. Madam Temporary Speaker, on the question of fine, I think there can be deeper thoughts around that so that we enhance the powers of this Senate and the National Assembly in this Bill."
}