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{
    "id": 181047,
    "url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/181047/?format=api",
    "text_counter": 369,
    "type": "speech",
    "speaker_name": "Ms. Karua",
    "speaker_title": "The Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs",
    "speaker": {
        "id": 166,
        "legal_name": "Martha Wangari Karua",
        "slug": "martha-karua"
    },
    "content": " Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I just want to, once again, refer hon. Members to Clause 21 of the Bill, which we have already gone through. If you look at Clause 21(b), it clearly says that the experts shall have the mandate to undertake thematic consultations with caucuses, interest groups and other experts. If you read the word \"Caucuses\" and \"interest groups\" and then you come to the proposed Section 27(A), which says: \"Without prejudice to the powers vested in the organs of review under this Act, the Committee of Experts shall convene a reference group of thirty representatives chosen by the interest groups identified in the Fourth Schedule to facilitate the consultations referred to in Section 27\". It means that those 30 groups are not the only ones that they can invite, when they have consultations. So, it is not that I am being unfair, but the civil society insisted that, although it is 3252 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES November 4, 2008 indicated here that they will be invited, let there be a schedule which makes it mandatory for them to be invited. That schedule was basically looked into, bearing in mind what people had agreed in the multi-sectoral forum convened last year, involving all shades of opinion. So, the list is not exclusive, and even individuals who have an interest in the review process will be able to make their representation. It means \"must include\" but is not limited to. I am urging hon. Members, because it is not possible to provide for everybody--- I looked at the amendment proposed by the Committee and saw it as a breakthrough in this very agonising issue. It provides us with a way forward in the review process. All professional societies, including the lawyers who are named, are members of the Association of Professional Societies of East Africa. But bearing in mind that a constitutional making process also requires experts in the field, you will see that lawyers are named twice. When it comes to the ACK Church, those churches were being given representatives according to their perceived territory even in the earlier grouping. It is not perfect, we must admit, but it is the closest that the Committee could come to. I saw it as a breakthrough because the Ministry, on its own, was not able to have this breakthrough with all those groups, in spite, of the numerous meetings. I urge hon. Members to support the amendment by the Committee."
}