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"id": 184713,
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"speaker_name": "Mrs. Shabesh",
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"speaker": {
"id": 377,
"legal_name": "Rachel Wambui Shebesh",
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"content": "Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Let me start by, of course, congratulating the Minister and saying from the outset that, I do support the Bill. I would, however, like to digress a bit and raise my concern about the seriousness of this House on critical issues that are being debated here. I see that we are really not having a serious look into issues that I think affect this country. I really want to urge that when we have such critical Bills, we look critically into them because this is really where we are going to change the future of this country. I have looked at this Bill which has been brought here. I would like to start by saying that, for me, the culture of saving must be promoted in this country. I believe that SACCOs have really improved the method of saving. Bringing in that culture of saving has been something that SACCOs have done over the years. I have been brought up in a culture where SACCOs are part and parcel of life. That is the area of Central Province. I am privileged to have been married in Western Province where there is no culture of SACCOs, and I have been able to see the difference. It is huge. I do agree with the Minister that we must find a way to introduce SACCOs in areas where they have not probably benefited. I would like to speak on my pet subject, which is the young people. For me, if SACCOs could be the avenue through which young people could be encouraged to save, we would start seeing progress. I would like to compare this, for example, with the Youth Enterprise Development Fund which is being given to the young people of this country through the Ministry of Youth and Sports. I wish that the Government would learn from each other without having to re-invent the wheel. Sometimes, it is not necessary to re-invent the wheel. If the Youth Enterprise Development Fund had been given the same status or implementation as SACCOs have been, I believe that it would be definitely more effective than it is now. It would teach young people how to save. It would also be able to give out the very loans or money that the young people have saved to themselves so that they become responsible, rather than the Government giving billions of shillings to a Ministry to go and give to young people who do not even understand and appreciate the value of working for that money and saving. I would like to be bold enough to ask whether it would be possible - and I am glad to see the Minister of State for Public Service is also here - to really re- direct the Youth Enterprise Development Fund to the Ministry of Co-operative Development and Marketing. That is because, for me, that would be the beginning of seeing some realization of real entrepreneurship amongst the young people which they will appreciate and see its fruits. I also want to talk about the Women Enterprise Development Fund. Women have had what we call merry-go-rounds for many years. I started a merry-go-round as a young girl and, up to today, I am a member of, I think, about ten merry-go-rounds. The merry-go-round is just saving money and giving to one particular woman in one month. Sometimes, you can save and get that money even after one year. But it comes as good money and it has been some sort of savings. This, again, for me would have been the basis on which the Women Enterprise Development Fund should have converted to. It should have converted to what women were already doing to help themselves. That, again, is a method like that of the SACCO. If women who are already saving with the merry-go-rounds were given the model of a SACCO, then, today, the Women Enterprise Development Fund, again, would have been more productive and benefiting them much more. This is because, again, SACCOs teach women to save and value their savings and profits. Again, I would be brave enough to ask whether even the Women Enterprise Development Fund can be October 9, 2008 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 2649 managed through the SACCOs and the Ministry of Co-operative Development and Marketing. I really do believe that those two funds that are supposed to reach the most vulnerable of our community, which is the women and youth, would be best placed in a Ministry that already has experience and success stories. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, what many of my colleagues here have said is something that I thought I would want to support. But I want to take off from where hon. Mungatana has just left; on the issue of having young people and women sit in the Board of the Authority. We always talk: \"You cannot do this because you are not experienced.\" Surely, at what point are young people ever going to get experience, if they can never sit in boards or authorities? When will women ever know how to run businesses or co-operatives for that matter, if they are not allowed to sit in those boards? I want to assure the Minister that they will not let you down. They are vibrant and have new ideas. They are probably even willing to work for longer hours than those whose criteria you have set down. I want to urge the Minister to work with the Ministry of Youth and Sports and the Ministry of Gender and Children Affairs on this and really partner! I have been talking about this issue of Ministries partnering. We should ensure that whatever gains or experiences that are gained through the SACCO are transferred immediately to the vulnerable people in this society who are, of course, the women and the youth. So, I really want to emphasise the point that Mr. Mungatana has made, that for us, it is the key. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to look at the issue of the industries in this country. I know that most industries have a love-hate relationship with employees because of not having enough funds to give the employees the kind of benefits that the employees would want to have. I have in mind, for example, the Export Processing Zones (EPZ) factories in Kasarani. I know that many of the workers have always come to us to complain, as politicians, of what they can do about the factories that are not looking into their needs. They do not give them medical cover or anything. I would like the Minister and his officials to approach factories and industries and encourage them to start SACCOs, because it is not their money; it is the money of the employees. Therefore, they will help the employees to get loans to do what they have not been able to do with the salaries that are inadequate. This, to me, is a culture that, if introduced even in the private sector, would help our labour force to access better with better benefits, because where SACCOs have succeeded you will find workers do not want to move out of a particular industry or company, even if they do not get very good salaries. This happens because of the benefits of being in a SACCO, they are willing to remain in that job. This is something that I think if sold well to the owners of industries and factories, we can improve the lives of the labour force in this country. I also want to speak about what has been mentioned here about the Deposits Guarantee Fund and say that in the whole Bill, this is what is the most key aspect that has attracted many people to this Bill. The biggest problem we have in this country is for people to save their money under very painful circumstances and then lose it. Therefore, to see that there will be a Deposits Guarantee Fund is something that is very exciting. I would like to urge, as has already been done, that if you can find a way to increase that amount to allow for more savings, then, definitely, it will be something that the savers will appreciate. Let me urge the Ministry to be very careful with political intrigues. We have seen many brilliant savings and credit societies go down the drain because of political interests. Mr. Githae asked how somebody could use millions to campaign for a position in a SACCO. Why would you use millions to campaign to get that position? I would like to urge that you use every means possible to ensure that we do not see the SACCOs going the same way that we have seen, for example, the boards of certain parastatals going because, then Kenyans will lose confidence in them. If Kenyans lose confidence in the SACCO movement in this country, then we will never 2650 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES October 9, 2008 have hope of encouraging our Kenyans to save and invest. I really want that to be a key issue because we do not want to lose confidence in this sector. Again, I want to emphasise Clause 32 that has been spoken about here, and I agree that it must be scrapped because as a woman and a young person, I can assure you that I have never been able to get a loan from any bank, even with the best idea or proposal. But with a SACCO, I can assure that I have been able to save and get a loan that has allowed me achieve the dreams that I had, as a young person and woman. Therefore, we must develop SACCOs to a level where if I want to go international in terms of trade, I can. If I want to write cheques, I should do that! I really believe that, that should not be an impediment at all. In fact, to me, that is a threat! It is a way to keep the struggling poor people of this country perpetually poor so that they do not reach a level where they will be in competition with the high and mighty. We must take SACCOs to the level of the banks in this country. That clause, therefore, must go! Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me finish by saying that as we debate critical issues like this SACCO Bill that we are talking about, let us be very aware that these are the small things that change a country. We saw in India a certain gentleman getting the Nobel Peace Prize for a very noble idea. This is going to be a legacy that Kenyans will remember the Minister for. This will be a legacy for which Kenyans will be proud of this Government. This could be seen as a small issue, a SACCO movement growing and changing this country in small ways that make a difference. To me, these big things that we talk about in this House and outside, thinking that they are the most important, are not the most important. What is most important is how we are changing the life of that young man or woman who is on the ground. This is the only way in which we affect them. This is the only way in which we touch them. We do not touch them by arguing across the Floor about whether we should have an opposition or not. That is really irrelevant to the Kenyan people. What is relevant to them is how they get money, how they grow their families, and how they invest and move on. This is the Minister's legacy! I am proud to be associated with the Minister and this Bill. I support it and urge the Minister to continue being more innovative in the issue of SACCO and co-operatives, so that Kenyans can benefit. For once, let Kenyans benefit under this Government from their own savings and hard work. They should not just be told to work hard, but let us show them how their hard work can pay off. With those few remarks, I beg to support."
}