HTTP 200 OK
Allow: GET, PUT, PATCH, DELETE, HEAD, OPTIONS
Content-Type: application/json
Vary: Accept
{
"id": 186983,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/186983/?format=api",
"text_counter": 202,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Dr. Eseli",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 141,
"legal_name": "David Eseli Simiyu",
"slug": "david-eseli"
},
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to contribute to this very important Bill and, in the course of contributing, to strongly support it. From the outset, I would like to say that I strongly support this Bill. That is because many things have happened in this country since Independence in 1963. Many people, in the course of time, have lost their livelihood and all their property at various stages since Independence. Indeed, in my constituency, I am a host to very many who have been displaced from all over, including Mt. Elgon, since 1963. It is a good Bill because I believe that those people will be able to bring out what they have gone through and, maybe, find some form of reconciliation. Maybe, some justice will also be found in the course of that period. However, there are a few things that may require to be looked into more carefully, when the Bill will be fine-tuned. I do not know whether it is right to try to make a law that will work retrospectively. While this is not exactly a law, we are going to be working retrospectively. So, we might need to look at that very carefully, so that we do not seem to be doing things--- Actually, universally, it is accepted that laws should not act retrospectively. When you look at page 589, Item \"J\", one of the actions will be inquiring into the causes of ethnic tensions and making recommendations of the promotion of healing, reconciliation and co- existence among the ethnic communities. It is, indeed, very sad that we have to have such a Commission for us to face the truth. That is because, many times, we, Kenyans, like burying our heads in the sand, so that simple things like how we have entrenched ethnicity and discrimination in our population; starting from the school system that essentially allows a child to grow up in Kakamega, and goes to nursery school, primary school, high school and university in the same place. We expect that person not to have any ethnic entrenchment in him. It is the same kind of mentality that makes us now put up a group to go around investigating why we are having violent strikes in high schools and yet, those children are just responding to what we did after the last general elections. Those children were watching what we did after the last general elections. They know that people committed crimes and got away with it. They think that, that is the way of life. In fact, many of them facing court cases are now wondering: Why them! There are other people who participated in worse things after the elections and they went scot-free in this country. It is very sad that we have to have a Commission such as this, for us to actually face the truth. Again, when we go on to page 598, it is said that nine people will be nominated to the Commission, three of whom will be from the Panel of Eminent African Personalities and four will be Kenyans. Then, we go on to say that we should have regard to the principle of gender equity and regional balance. I do not know how four people who are Kenyans are going to ensure regional balance. I think that, that number is too small. We might not be able to ensure regional balance, unless we want to face the truth ourselves. Our country has been divided into blocks and regions based on tribes and issues like those. So, if we really want to bring in regional balance, we need to look at that number very carefully. I know that, probably, the person who drafted this Bill was, maybe, remembering that we do not want to make a Committee of too many people because, then, it will be the people who manufactured the camel. But all the same, if we are to take care of the regional balance issue, maybe that number might be too small. 2282 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES July 31, 2007 On page 605, Clause 20(1), the Commission shall be inaugurated within 21 days of the appointment of its members and shall operate for two years. Healing and reconciliation is not a shot-gun affair. I do not think that healing and reconciliation is something that we can peg on two years. I fear that, that period given might be too short for that Commission to achieve the mission that we want it to achieve. Maybe, we might need to look at that duration again, so that we give it ample time to actually give the right emphasis. On page 607, Clause 25(3) a victim, perpetrator or witness may apply to the Commission for proceedings to be held in camera. I think, as the previous speaker said, the issues of confidentiality have to be taken very seriously. Knowing the tensions in the country, anybody giving evidence to that Commission, actually, might be risking his or her own life and so on. Probably, we should not leave it to the person giving the evidence to decide whether he or she wants to be in camera or not. Probably, we might have to require some sort of preliminary hearing so that we can decide whether that person needs the privacy or not, so that we do not open them to further abuse after they have given their evidence. On page 611, Clause 34 Part III, the commission shall not grant or recommend amnesty if the act, omission or offence to which the application relates is an act, omission or offence that constitutes crimes against humanity or genocide within the meaning of international human rights law. This is dynamite! How will it be received by the people who could potentially come out to give that evidence? If we say that the Commission shall not grant or recommend amnesty, if the act--- I think we need to be very careful there. That is because we would like as many as we would wish to give evidence in that Commission to come forward. Although there has been an attempt to, sort of, cover that problem on page 613, item 6, which says:- \"Notwithstanding the provisions of Section 34---\" But then that, again, introduces the issue of contradiction. I think we should not have any ambiguity in this Bill. It should be very clear. In fact, the number of Kenyans who are lawyers are a very minute percentage. If we allow that sort of thing and yet, the people coming to give evidence are not necessarily all lawyers--- On page 614, Clause 9(c), the confession or admission shall not be used in any court proceedings against the applicant, whether or not amnesty is granted. Where amnesty is not granted, that confession should be used as evidence against that person. When amnesty is granted then, maybe, that evidence cannot be used. But I do not think that they should get away with everything so clearly. What about the issue of quorum? We have said that quorum of the Commission shall be four people. But then we have also said that if there is a tie, the Chairman, will be the one to resolve the issue. If the quorum is four members, then we have given it a very high chance of there being a tie. Maybe we might need to revise that bit on quorum. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the part of winding up, on page 625, we are saying that:- \"Before the Commission is dissolved, the Commissioners shall, among the final administrative activities of the Commission organise the disposal of the remaining property of the Commission\". Yet section 43(5) on page 620 suggests that the assets will revert to the Consolidated Fund. So, if the assets revert to the Consolidated Fund, what are these people doing disposing of assets? Which assets are these they are disposing of? Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think it is a good thing apart from quite a number of things that need to be looked at, so that every Kenyan feels that they will actually benefit from this and that they will not be threatened by this. I think this is a Bill that we should pass for the betterment of this country. I beg to support. July 31, 2008 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 2283"
}