HTTP 200 OK
Allow: GET, PUT, PATCH, DELETE, HEAD, OPTIONS
Content-Type: application/json
Vary: Accept
{
"id": 186985,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/186985/?format=api",
"text_counter": 204,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Kioni",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 49,
"legal_name": "Jeremiah Ngayu Kioni",
"slug": "jeremiah-kioni"
},
"content": "Thank you Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to say a few things about this very important Bill that is before this House. Of course, I am still amazed by Members of this House. This is a very important Bill, but I think we like discussing things that are more controversial than things that may help us move into the future. Having said that, this intended legislation is very important. This House cannot fail to recognise the amount of effort, time and thought that was put by the key persons who sat at Serena Hotel and negotiated. Even for the work that was put in place by the Panel of Eminent African Persons, I would like to go on record for having congratulated them for the work they did. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I support this Bill, there are some things that I would like to point out. First, with regard to Clause 5 of the Bill which is about a cut-off date of between 12th December, 1963 and 28th February, 2008. There is a bit of qualification under Sub- clause (i). However, there are many things that happened way back from 1895. If we do not pay attention to the atrocities that were meted out to other communities from way back in 1895, then we will not be able to interrogate all the historical injustices that have befallen the people of this country. I would, therefore, strongly urge that the cut-off date be moved back to the time the colonialists came to this country, if not before. The other thing I would like to point out is under Clause 5(ii) and (iii). It is important that care be taken so that we do not have people being schooled to come and say things before this Commission. We have seen it happen in other Commissions some of which are still going on. It is important that we provide for penalties for persons who may want to take others through some tutorage so that they can distort the truth that would otherwise have come out. In this particular clause, there is still the element of 1885. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am particularly happy with the provisions of Clause 5(h)(i) because it is important to pay attention to the possibility of a premeditated position before the violence so that we do not forget that there might be--- Even many human rights organizations have said that there was premeditation of the violence that was meted upon Kenyans. After the elections, if there is evidence that there are things that were planned before the elections, then it should come out clearly. It is important to pay attention to this particular clause. Under Clause 5(m), which is about facilitating the granting of conditional amnesty, this maybe used as a loophole. It is important that we make sure that this provision is not used as a loophole to grant amnesty to those people who otherwise should answer to crimes against humanity getting their way out. Again, under Clause 6, there is the issue of the cut-off date. I still insist that the cut-off date be taken way back to 1895, if not before then. Clause 6(i) talks about educating and engaging the public and giving publicity to the Commission's works. As I said earlier on, this is an area whose provisions could be used to school people and tutor them. We need to be careful so that this exercise does not end up being a source of work for groups or a way of money getting into the country. Such money could be used for other reasons other than what this good Bill is intended to achieve. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, Clause 6(k)(i) talks about reparation to victims. Last week, we were told in this House that each internally displaced person was paid Kshs10,000. This is very little money. If this is the kind of reparation that victims have to receive, then it is inadequate. Certainly, it does not meet the needs of those people. There are people who had July 31, 2008 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 2285 actually taken loans to engage in business. So, if they are given Kshs10,000 only, they cannot really make ends meet with that kind of money. It is, therefore, important that attention is paid to the amount of money or reparation that is accorded to the victims. With regard to Clause 9, we have the selection of those who will sit in the panel. What criteria was used to arrive at these institutions? There are other professional institutions that have been left out. It is, therefore, important that the list of these institutions be reconsidered. For example, we have the AAK, IFK and so on. These institutions and many others have not featured in this Bill. It is important that a criteria for recruiting institutions be established. Perhaps, most important is the question: What criteria is used by these institutions in selecting, appointing or sending representatives to the panel that we are talking about? Over time, we have seen the same faces appearing in every other commission or committee that has been appointed. It is important to interrogate these institutions so that we do not end up with the same persons who have now seen employment opportunities in everything that Parliament enacts. It is also important to hear new ideas. It will be wrong to see the same faces that were there during the Constitution of Kenya Review Commission appearing in this Truth, Justice and Reconciliation Commission. They are the same ones who are seated in the Kriegler Commission, the Waki Commission and so on. It is important that we try not to recycle the same mind. Clause 10 of the Bill states thus: \"The Commission shall consist of seven commissioners\". I have a problem with Clause 10(1)(a) which states that three of the Commissioners shall be non- citizens and selected by a panel of eminent African personalities. I wonder whether our having to rely on this panel of eminent African personalities does not make us feel like we have not matured. Is it something that we cannot do alone? Must we keep going back every other time to the panel of eminent African personalities and yet we are a sovereign State? When we now provide for their interfering with our day-to-day running of this nation, I do not think it augurs very well with our sovereignty. We appreciate what they have done so far. We know that they can still be consulted in future, but to provide that they become part and parcel of everything that we are going to do in the coming couple of years may not augur well with what we need to achieve. It is like we cannot move on any more on our own without the support of others. The same matter has been addressed in the third paragraph of the Third Schedule. It says:- \"The quorum of the Commission shall be four Commissioners at least one of whom shall be a Commissioner appointed under Clause 10(1)(a)\". We, therefore, see that because of the quorum issue, these eminent persons will be involved on a day-to-day basis because this Commission will not move if one of those eminent personalities is not present. I think that needs to be reviewed so that we can determine our own destiny. Again, under Clause 10(3), there is that aspect that was raised by other hon. Members, that is, the issue of regional balance. While it is important to continue balancing issues, it is also important to pay attention to how some of these quarrels and violence erupted. We may be saying that we need to balance regions and yet it was, perhaps, a case of a number of specific regions rising up against one region. When you talk about balancing regions, if there is an issue that requires objectivity, it will certainly be lost because the same bloc of thinking will still be against that which they were originally against. That way, we will not make any progress. We will end up in a position that will not help us heal. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with regard to Clause 10(5)(d), again, these individuals are required to be impartial. They need not have been involved with any political grouping. However, it is not possible that a person who has been involved in some political activism, all of a sudden be able to become objective without having the influence of where one has come from. So, it is important that we look into this Clause, because it may be very difficult for 2286 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES July 31, 2007 somebody who has been very actively involved in party politics to have his mind freed from the position he has always held. The issue of eminent personality is again repeated under Clause 17. I do not want to talk about it. It is the same thing. It is also under Clause 18. Clause 27 provides as follows:- \"The Commission may establish special units to deal with specific issues.\" The four units that are there are women, children, persons with disabilities and other vulnerable groups. I do not know where men fall. I do not know whether men are not also a unit that needs to be looked at. Are men left to be seen as the ones who have caused all the mayhem or do they also need specific attention? Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, another clause that is important is Clause 49, which states:- \"The Minister shall report to the National Assembly within three months of receipt of the report of the Commission and twice a year thereafter.\" This clause talks of the Minister reporting to National Assembly twice a year thereafter. For how long? Is it going to be forever? Again, the provision under paragraph (2) of Clause 49 is such that a Minister can remain there without doing anything, but may encourage some bit of fence- sitting. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, Clause 51 states:- \"The Minister may make regulations generally to the better carrying into effect of any provisions of this Act.\" Whereas we have said that the Commission will move under the direction of nobody else other than its membership, Clause 51, again, comes to say that \"the Minister may make regulations, generally, for the better carrying into effect of any of the provisions of this Act.\" This is a loophole. Any Minister with good or bad intentions, can easily get involved and influence the outcome of the Commission. The Third Schedule says that the Commission shall meet not less than four times every financial year. The life of the Commission is two years. So, if we say it shall meet not less than four times every financial year, it is important not to leave them that loose, because they may meet eight times in within the two years the Commission is supposed to be in place. That may not be adequate. So, it is important to ask the Commission to meet as often as possible. They may need to meet every day. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it might have been necessary to capture the issue of the speeches that may have incited violence amongst the people, and the things that keep waking up ill feelings towards one another. I do not know how this Bill could capture that, but it would be very important to do so. Some penalties could be specified for people who may want to take us back through use of Short Text Massaging (SMS), and other means, to, again, arouse bad feelings amongst communities. We should provide for ways of dealing with such people, having given ourselves an opportunity to heal through this legislation. With those many remarks, I support the Bill."
}