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"id": 188065,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/188065/?format=api",
"text_counter": 226,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Githae",
"speaker_title": "The Assistant Minister, Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and Ministry of Local Government",
"speaker": {
"id": 159,
"legal_name": "Robinson Njeru Githae",
"slug": "robinson-githae"
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"content": " Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to voice my comments on this very important Bill. I rise to support this very important Bill which, in my view, should have come to this House 45 years ago. I would like, first of all, to commend the team that was at Serena. The team that had a very heavy responsibility of trying to bring peace in this country. It voiced the concerns of their Principals and it has actually drafted this very important Bill. I am saying that because their job was not very easy. They had a lot of problems to sort out. They were also under immense pressure from their Principals, the Eminent Persons and even Kenyans as a whole. This is an important Bill and therefore, it requires all our support. It is a result of negotiations. Although it has been moved by the Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs, it has not actually emanated from her office. It is a result of negotiations that took place in Serena Hotel, where the two main political parties were well represented by very able personalities. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am supporting this Bill because, for the first time it is going to give Kenyans an opportunity to tell their side of the story. It is unfortunate that we have come up with the date of 12th December, 1963 when Kenya attained Independence. If I would have been asked, I would have said we need to go backwards to when Kenya as a nation we know today, first existed. I would have gone back to 1895. This is the time that some of the so-called historical injustices started. I have talked of the year 1895 because before then, Kenya, whether a colony or a protectorate, did not exist. This then would have given Kenyans an opportunity to go as far back as memory can remember. This would give the basis for the so-called historical injustices. Some of the so-called historical injustices are actually a result of colonialism. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I understand the dilemma in which the negotiation team were in. We are also used to blaming everything on our colonial masters knowing that they are gone and will not come back. So, in a way I can understand. However, in my view there is a provision where they can consider all pertinent and relevant issues. My advice to the Commission is that, they should not restrict themselves to the date of 12th December, 1963. They should obtain and receive evidence and hearing on matters that go beyond 12th December, 1963. That is the only way Kenyans would have an opportunity to tell their side of the story once and for all. I have compared this to the South African Act and there are quite a number of similarities. One of the main exceptions is that, for the South African one they had no foreigners in their Commission. Here we are borrowing three Commissioners who would be foreigners. Again, I would have preferred if this was a purely Kenyan affair. We cannot expect foreigners to come and tell us what is wrong with us. We know what is wrong with us! We know what is wrong with this country. We know the historical basis for some of the things that have happened. But, again, I can also understand the dilemma of the negotiation team in Serena Hotel when they wanted to give this an international outlook. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, probably, we could have given it an international outlook even with Kenyans in the diaspora. We have people like Prof. Makau who have been outside this country and Prof. Mazrui. Therefore, there could have been a provision for Kenyans but in the diaspora. But, again, as I said, I can understand the dilemma of the negotiating team at Serena Hotel. Probably, that is something that can be looked into. 2120 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES July 24, 2008 One of the functions of this Commission is to find the so-called historical injustices. I am one of the people who have been unable to understand what this so-called historical injustice is. I am saying this because it is more related to land, and more particularly, land in the Rift Valley. Again, going backwards, you will find that one of the reasons why we have the so-called settler communities in the Rift Valley was a result of colonial practices. When farms in the Rift Valley wanted workers, some workers were obtained from other places. When Hut Tax was imposed and some people did not want to pay it, they ran away. Most of them ran away to the Rift Valley in order not to pay the tax. Others went there looking for money to pay for the Hut Tax. So, it is important that this is realised. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the first settlement of non-indigenous people in the Rift Valley occurred very early in the life of this nation. I am told that it was as early as 1933. That was the first time official settlement occurred somewhere in Molo and Burnt Forest. Since then, it has continued. When we attained Independence the administration of Jomo Kenyatta came up with the rule of willing buyer, willing seller. Again, they say that the law is an ass. It prevents both the rich and the poor from begging on the street. This is true! You cannot expect a rich man to beg on the street. It is also true that when you have a willing buyer, willing seller, those with money will buy land. So, for us to understand the historical injustices, then we need to find out if we need to continue with this policy. As far as the Constitution is concerned, you can own land anywhere in the Republic of Kenya. You can work anywhere in the Republic of Kenya. You can marry from anywhere in the Republic of Kenya but when it comes to land issues, this contradicts the actual position on the ground. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in this country, there are some places where banks never used to lend money with land as security. This is because an \"outsider\"--- I will later come to the reasons I do not like words like, \"outsiders\", \"ancestral land\", \"settlers\" and such things. There is definitely a contradiction. One of the functions that this Commission should investigate is whether we should amend the policy of willing buyer, willing seller. What happens is that, sometimes you buy land then after 40 years or so, when the sons of the person who sold you land are told that the so-called \"settler\" bought the piece of land at Kshs300 an acre, they say, \"no, my father must have been conned!\". But if you look at the value of the shilling at that time, probably Kshs300 an acre in 1963 is equivalent to Kshs400,000 an acre today. So, there is that confusion and that is why you find some people saying, \"our community was conned\". There was no conning, it was just because of the value of the shilling then. Again, the Commission must investigate and come up with a conclusion. If it does not, the same contradictions that we see will continue. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is so sad that in this country we do not recognise local investors. I remember reading an article in the Newsweek in which the Boeing Corporation of America wanted to set up their headquarters. They wrote to all their States. They said, \"we want to set up our headquarters, what incentives can you give us\"? The 60 States went on a wooing spree trying to woo the Boeing Corporation to set up their headquarters in their State because of the various advantages. At the end of the day, the State had to give them free land and tax rebates. I think that was in the State of Washington where the Boeing Corporation put up their headquarters. So, we need to do the same thing here in Kenya. We need to give incentives to our local investors. A local investor need not necessarily be a person with Kshs100 million and above. Even a person who is buying one acre of land is an investor. He needs to be given protection, encouragement and incentives. It should not really matter where that local investor comes from because that is one of the dangers. If somebody is putting up a shop in an area, does it really matter where that person comes from? Does it matter from which community that person comes from? The fact is that if he July 24, 2008 PARLIMENTARY DEBATES 2121 puts up, say, a shopping complex there, then clearly, it might be rented out and people will be employed there. Therefore, it is to the advantage of that community for that person to put up that kind of shop. So, we need to accept and encourage local investors. We also need to give them incentives. We should not just think of investors as foreigners. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, one of the functions of the Commission is to investigate the illegal grabbed land. I wonder whether it is better to sweep thing under the carpet or to talk about them. This is because I can see us opening wounds when we talk about grabbed land. What exactly is it? What are we talking about? I can see resistance from the land grabbers. In fact, I see them sabotaging the work of this Commission. This is because they are a powerful cartel. They are the ones who grabbed land belonging to institutions like schools, hospitals, airports and so on. Some of them have actually developed them. So, the Commission should be prepared to face resistance from the land grabbers. It should be prepared for its work to be sabotaged by land grabbers because it will be going against what they have acquired. However, I would like to advise them to soldier on. At least, let us know how 200 acres of land belonging to JKIA was reduced to about 100 acres to the extent that even people have built houses and flats on the flight path of aeroplanes. We also want to know more about the current problem in Mau Complex where we are told that a certain amount of land was set aside for resettling the landless. There were some people who were living in the forest and they needed to be resettled in the Mau Complex. However, the land ended up with civil servants, senior military officers and senior politicians. Again, the Commission should expect a lot of resistance from the people who were given land in the Mau Complex. They are going to sabotage its work. This is because when they begin their investigations, they will realise that the 1,900 people with titles are not the original allottees. Most of them have actually bought it from politicians who had been allocated that land. So, the Commission should expect a lot of resistance. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the other function that the Commission will perform is that it will give Kenyans an opportunity to let off steam. Some people have had gloomy faces since we finished our elections. This will give them an opportunity to let off steam and ventilate. Probably, they will become less stressful. So, in a way, it is good. The other issue I like about this Bill is immunity. I was not prepared to support this Bill if it was going to give immunity to rapists and arsonists. I have always said that if you gang-rape an old lady, a young lady or even a child, what democracy are you practising? I do not see any connection between that and the so-called fighting for democracy or protesting against election. As far as I am concerned, such a person just wanted to take opportunity of the chaos to commit rape. So, I am very glad. In fact, when I saw the first draft, that is where I went. I had said that if I see a possibility of a rapist being given immunity, then I would not support this Bill. Fortunately, the crimes of rape and burning of houses have been exempted from immunity. So, for that reason, I support this Bill. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is one more issue I would like to take up with the Minister and that has to do with damages. Fine, the Commission will investigate and establish whether certain injustices were committed, but it is only fair that they recommend the redress. If, for example, you had been taken to Nyayo House and your manhood had been tortured, what can be done to redress that if you are already impotent? At least, you can be given some money as compensation. I do not know what they mean when the say, \"To recommend a redress\". I think there should have been a provision for damages so that once the Commission identifies the wrong that was done on you, then it should be able to recommend a certain payment. However, at the moment, it is not there. That is something that needs to be looked into. Again, the Commission has taken 28th February, 2008 as the latest day in which they can consider issues. I guess that is the day the National Accord was signed. We have been hearing of 2122 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES July 24, 2008 youth that are still in jail. The reports that have been given by the police indicate that only about 300 people are continuing with court proceedings and yet we have been told that over 5,000 youth cannot be accounted for. The Commission is also supposed to investigate what happened to this. We have been told that there are no youth in the prison. Some youth ran away from their homes fearing that they would be arrested. These are the youth we are being told have supposedly been arrested by the police. So, it would be good to tell the youth who have run away from their homes to go back. They should not run away from their homes. They should go back home so that even politicians can stop making political propaganda on this issue. We are told that only 300 are either in remand or in jail, because they were fined some money and were unable to pay it. I am told that it was not much. For some it was Kshs1,000, Kshs2,000 and for some Kshs5,000. So, we would also like to appeal to the people who had engaged these youths to go and pay for them the fines, so that they come out of jail. So, as we continue considering the Bill, this issue can be put to rest. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on specific provisions of the Bill, I see that the headquarters will be in Nairobi. I wish this was not specified, so that the Commission can set up its headquarters wherever it likes. If it wants to set it up in Ndia, or in any other constituency, that will be most welcome; that may be a good idea. To conclude, this is a good Bill; it should have come like yesterday but now it is with us. I am requesting all hon. Members to support this Bill, so that we can start giving Kenyans an opportunity to say what they know, what injustice they have suffered from 1963 to now. This will also give them a chance to ventilate whatever is in their heart, so that this country can move forward. However, as we do this, sometimes it is not possible to legislate against people's hearts. You cannot legislate that you love your neighbour or somebody from another community. You cannot do that! This is an attempt, and it is a good one. Let us understand it, so that some of the generalizations that have made communities not like each other can be looked into, so that communities in Kenya can start living together. It was sad to see a fellow Kenyan taking up arms against his neighbours. Even more sad, was somebody taking up arms against their own children, just because their mother is not from their community. It was so sad! I think it has never occurred anywhere else except in this country. Even in places where genocide, for example, in Rwanda, took place, a man would retain the children and chase away the wife who was from a different community. But in Kenya, I think we got into the Guiness World Book of records, where during these chaos, parents and fathers chased away their own children and wives. It was sad! Clearly, a wife belongs to the community in which she is married. Once somebody has been married there, she belongs to that community. She belongs to that clan and, therefore, she ceases to be a member of her previous community. It was sad when some were being chased away, even with their own children. I think this is something that we should not allow to occur again. It is good that these people will be given an opportunity to come forward and tell us why they chased away their own children and wives. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the people who revenged are no better than the ones who perpetrated genocide. They are no better, because even the good book says: \"Leave vengeance to me, says the Lord!\" Two wrongs do not make a right. Even the ones who revenged did wrong. In this country we believe in the rule of law and, therefore, we should have allowed the law to take its course. It may be slow but that is the law. This Bill now gives us an opportunity to know what really happened for all those years, what really happened at the Nyayo House Torture Chambers and what happened to the land that was grabbed. It will also enable the Commission to investigate all the past civil servants; everybody who has been a public servant can also be investigated. But it has been given an onerous job of trying to know the motive and perspective of the person responsible for commission of the July 24, 2008 PARLIMENTARY DEBATES 2123 violations. I think it is a tall order to really try to investigate what somebody was thinking, what was in somebody's heart when they were doing this thing. It is a tall order, but I have no doubt that if the right commissioners are appointed, they will achieve this. If credible commissioners are appointed, I have no doubt that they will achieve this. If experienced people are appointed, I have no doubt that they will achieve their purpose. There is no point of inventing the wheel. I think the first job of this Commission should be to invite the former Chairman of the Truth and Justice Commission in South Africa, Archbishop Tutu, to come and show them how he managed to achieve what he did. He will also show them how he managed to conduct investigations, and get the respect of all the parties in South Africa, whites, blacks and the various other communities. I think they will, first of all, need to invite him to come and tell them how he did it. There is no point of inventing the wheel; it has been done. I think they should also visit Sierra Leone, because it also has a commission of this nature. They should go there and learn how it was done, because the purpose of this Commission is not to create jobs. This country almost collapsed. It is by the grace of God that it is still in one piece. The forces of evil were rained on this country, but God loves this country and we were able to come together. What is required it to preach reconciliation, and for the leaders to talk to their people and urge them to accept the people who are returning to their farms. What is required now is for the local authorities to accept the IDPs, who were hawkers in their areas of jurisdiction, because I understand there is still a problem. Some of the hawkers have been unable to go back to the towns in which they were hawking their products. So, it is now upon us, leaders, to preach reconciliation and peace. We should stop politics, so that this country can move forward, because God loves it. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I beg to support."
}