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"id": 188250,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/188250/?format=api",
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"speaker_name": "Mr. Mungatana",
"speaker_title": "The Assistant Minister for Medical Services",
"speaker": {
"id": 185,
"legal_name": "Danson Buya Mungatana",
"slug": "danson-mungatana"
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"content": "Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, when we have matters that touch on national importance, it is important for us, as a Parliament, to engage so that our views and thoughts can be heard. The unlawfully organised groups have been a phenomenon in this country for a number of years. They always arise just before elections and are active just after elections. This raises the question: \"What is the role of leaders in these organised groups?\" Unfortunately, some of them are elected into this august House. It, therefore, becomes impossible to investigate the same people, especially if the same people are appointed into the Executive either as Ministers or Assistant Ministers. It really becomes impossible to investigate. The attitude that has been there is that leaders are clean. Everybody else will speak outside there: \"We know the rumours and we know that it is so-and-so who is leading that group. He gives them money and does this and that.\" It is impossible to investigate these people because they hold positions of power and influence. That is why when we had a public offer from the Prime Minister at some point, that is, when he said that he was willing to discuss with the Mungiki, the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security said, \"No, such discussions cannot take place.\" You can see very clearly that within the conservatism of the State, there is a desire to protect things that are not right within the system. It is only this Parliament that has the power, strength and ability to make it happen. The truth must be told. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, if you look at this Motion, it is going to touch on extremely important personalities in this country, some of whom have retired. I would urge the Select Committee which is going to execute this mandate on our behalf to summon these people whoever they are. It does not matter whether they are retired politicians or not. Whatever positions they used to hold in this country, they must come and explain to the people of Kenya. It has become too much and this country has suffered for too long. What worries me, even as I support this Motion, is that the Standing Orders have a 2026 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES July 23, 2008 provision with regard to the execution of this mandate. Standing Order No.161 states that the evidence that they are going to receive cannot be made public. So, if this Select Committee we are setting up to investigate these unlawful organisations and their activities--- The idea is that they must come up with deterrence measures to the recurrence of these unlawfully organised groups. We need to listen to them or know what they are doing. The Motion states that the Select Committee will do this work for eight months and then report its findings to Parliament. This means that for the entire period of eight months, we will not get to know what it is they are actually doing. I would be much happier if the Mover of this Motion would also seek leave to move an amendment, at some point, that the operations of this Select Committee shall be public. It should be a public affair. I am saying so because if you ask the people, some of whom have gone public on these matters--- I remember reading in the Press about some of the young people who said that they have participated in these unlawfully organised groups. They said that they have grievances that need to be addressed. Perhaps, if these people can come out and talk about it, apart from their leaders, it can help us, as a nation, to make progress towards the sorting out of this problem. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, this Select Committee is also supposed to investigate the root causes of why we have these organised groups that crop at some point in our election cycle. Real recommendations will come out and we will see them. At some point, before the eruption of school unrest that we have right now, several commissions have been set up. However, commissions are controlled by the Commissions of Inquiry Act. They are supposed to report back to the appointing authority, ordinarily, the Head of State. Ordinarily, if the recommendations are too radical, they are shelved. The fact that this is going to be a Parliamentary Select Committee, it is my prayer that the recommendations that are going to come out of it, are not only made public when the Report is laid on the Table of this House, but also be implemented. This is because it may serve as an opening point or a window through which we can unearth the operations of things that are always kept secret under the Ministry of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security. It is my prayer that the recommendations of this Committee will be implemented. I pray that even the Minister will come out strongly to support this Motion. We need solutions towards the problems that affect us. In one way or the other, those affected directly and those not affected directly, we are all being touched by the problems caused by these groups. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, even in our region where we have not seen very strong groupings of this nature, we have a domino effect in a small scale. It is just like what is happening with regard to the unrest in our schools. If one school is affected, then the problem spreads to other places. We have had big gangs being organised in the country and then miniature versions of those groups developing across the country even in the rural areas. We need to know what can be done. It needs to be an open discussion without condemning anyone. We need to hear what those people are saying. What is the problem? Who is to blame? What can we do about it? Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, we have learnt from experience that whenever this country has problems, it has not been the strong arm of our security forces that has solved them. In fact, it has always been dialogue and discussions. I believe that if Kenyans are going to participate in open discussions, through this Select Committee, and truly say what the problem is, then we will have solutions that are going to help this country. We will probably not have a repeat of this pattern that has become part of our existence during elections. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, with those few remarks I beg to support."
}