HTTP 200 OK
Allow: GET, PUT, PATCH, DELETE, HEAD, OPTIONS
Content-Type: application/json
Vary: Accept
{
"id": 188525,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/188525/?format=api",
"text_counter": 214,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Orengo",
"speaker_title": "The Minister for Lands",
"speaker": {
"id": 129,
"legal_name": "Aggrey James Orengo",
"slug": "james-orengo"
},
"content": " I am very sorry Mr. Chanzu, through the Chair. It is time limitation and it is time to reply. I am sorry about that. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to commend the House for the support it has given during this debate. In fact, there has been unanimity in support of this Motion. The views that have been expressed by the hon. Members who contributed to this debate are positive. One particular aspect of the debate is that, again, nearly to every hon. Member who was taking part in this debate, spoke out for the Ministry of Lands in saying that the amount of money that has been allocated to the Ministry is inadequate. Indeed, it is inadequate. We will look forward at an appropriate time through the Government procedures to ensure that your voice is heard and that we are allocated more funds in order to deal with the activities of the Ministry, which was set out during my speech. I also do not take that support for granted. I have been speaking to many Members of Parliament. There are those who have visited the Lands Office and their particular concern has been the question of issuance of title deeds. I think you now understand why it has not really been possible to give out these title deeds. Although in some areas title deeds are ready and they are not being collected, sometimes because of distances, people do not just come for them. But I hope next time when you are talking to us or other people in Government, including His Excellency the President or the Prime Minister, if they visit your area and you ask for the issuance of title deeds, you will know the constraints that we have in the Ministry in ensuring that everybody who is entitled to be issued with a title deed does get a title deed. One other thing that has been expressed by many of the contributors to this debate is the issue of corruption. Again, with the team that I have in the Ministry led by the Permanent Secretary, we are going to deal with this problem. Even if we will not eradicate it totally, we will take measures to ensure that corruption does not bedevil the Ministry of Lands. In fact, by the figures which were published by a recent poll, the Ministry of Lands was categorised as ranking number three, which is not a very good record. We will try, to the best of our abilities, to ensure that the funds that have been made available to us will be used efficiently and for the purpose for which they have been given. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also would wish that, during my tenure in the Ministry of Lands, together with the team that I have, to be more proactive. For example, I really believe that in terms of the Ndung'u Report, there are things that we can do without waiting for another Commission because that, again, will be using extra public funds. But I think where necessary and where there is no legal hurdle, we should be able to make sure that some of the recommendations in the Ndung'u Report are implemented without further ado. July 23, 2008 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 2077 I must say, also, that some of the suggestions that we have given in terms of computerisation, modernisation and automation of our systems will enable us not only deal with the issue of corruption as a whole, but make it possible that, even as we try to retrieve some of the public lands that were grabbed, we are able to do it in a more efficient manner. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, land is a very important resource. It is not a limitless resource. It is a finite resource. We cannot be able to expand the land mass that we have as a country, unless we are able to reclaim land in the future, like some other countries have done, that will not add up to much. Yet, land hosts our forests and, as some of the contributors have said, it hosts our population, our rivers and our wildlife. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if we are not able to put it to good use, the few steps that we have made in modernisation and development of our economy will be worthless. So, we must plan for the use of our land so that land, as an asset, can become a national asset that we can use in advancing Kenya into a middle-income economy, as envisaged in Vision 2030. As you know, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, part of the problems that we have had is land grabbing. One of the things that amazes me, and which we must put a stop to is that, you will find that somebody is allotted land--- He may have spelt out some reasons as to why he wants that land allocated to him. But, eventually, you will find that the person who is the allottee is not able to use that land. He wants to sell it and if he cannot sell that huge chunk of land, he will engage in a sub-division plan in order to sell it in pieces. To the extent that they do that and to the extent that they have public land available merely for speculation, not only does the public suffer--- That is because when we want to build schools, public universities or public institutions, we have to go into the land market and try to buy land for the public institutions. Even if we use compulsory acquisition, the land will still be very expensive to the Government. So, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am putting people on notice that the days when you could be allotted land which you cannot use and you plan to sell it are gone. We are not going to allocate land to those people who are not in a position to develop it, so that land merely remains a dead asset. If you are given a time span in which to develop that land and you do not do it - and most allotment letters and leases will state the period within which you are required to develop the land - that land will revert back to the Government. That is not something that we need to go back to the Cabinet. It is not something that we need to come back to this Parliament. In any case, when you are being allocated that land, Parliament and the Cabinet are not involved! It is the Commissioner of Lands and, to some extent, the Minister who is responsible for land. So, if you are not able to use that land in terms of the conditions either spelt out in the grant or letter of allotment, we are not going to allow you to \"sit\" on that land without carrying out any development on it! The only option we are giving to such people is that, if you must be given public land and you cannot develop it, then under the proposals that are contained in the Draft National Land Policy, you have to pay tax on it! If it is your land, either as a freehold or absolute title, we have no quarrel for the moment, unless we come out with a land use policy which, I believe, we are going to come up with in the near future. But if you are given public land merely to \"sit\" on it or use it as a collateral, then you are going to pay for it. That is because there are other people who can put that land to good use! Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have been told in other quarters and even within the Government system that: \"You know, there are countries where land is so unavailable, even in some of the developed economies.\" Many of the examples that I am given are like South Korea or, even for that matter, Japan, Dubai and Middle East. If you have resources and you can show that you are going to do something for the improvement of that economy, and you put that land into effective use, then that land will be made available to you! But in this country, even those with resources to put land into good use, they find it very difficult to find land at rates which can justify the project that they want to put in place. For 2078 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES July 23, 2008 example, two months ago, I was talking to some officials of the Chinese Development Bank and they were telling me that to develop a low-cost housing unit in Kenya is almost an impossible task because the land on which they will put that single unit or structure, which should be cheap to an ordinary Kenyan, that simple structure could be about five times cheaper than the land it sits on! So, the land makes the housing unit so expensive that housing the poor becomes a very, very difficult task. So, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think in future, we must be emphatic"
}