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{
"id": 188757,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/188757/?format=api",
"text_counter": 196,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Kajwang",
"speaker_title": "The Minister of State for Immigration and Registration of Persons",
"speaker": {
"id": 164,
"legal_name": "Gerald Otieno Kajwang",
"slug": "otieno-kajwang"
},
"content": " Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this Vote of the Ministry of Lands. The Minister is a man that we associate with reforms and we hope that there will be a lot of reforms in the land policy and settlements in this country in the next few years. First of all, before I go into the general debate on the land policy, I want to start by saying two things about my constituency, which the Minister may note. The first one is that in Mbita Constituency, there is Lambwe Settlement Scheme, which is one of the oldest settlement schemes in Nyanza, which was started in 1948 by the colonial government. The land was planned and demarcated properly. The people were issued with cards under the Settlement Fund and they paid for the land. From 1948 to 2008, there are many years. But we still do not have title deeds! Since the people who came to settle there are from all over Kenya, they fear that one of these days, the ancestral people of that area, like Kajwang, may turn against them and tell them to walk out. So, it is a serious political problem for me! Every time I go for elections they tell me: \"This time round, if you are not going to give us our title deeds, we are not going to elect you again because you are going to evict us! We have no title deeds!\" So, Mr. Minister, kindly note that in your diary. Unless there is a very serious problem, which you should bring to our attention, we need title deeds for Lambwe Settlement Scheme. They July 22, 2008 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 1985 have been long overdue. But, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, in Mbita, generally, when I was in Form III in 1973, that is when the adjudication was done. Up to now, there are no title deeds! Mbita Township is growing very fast. It cannot grow faster than it is growing because you cannot buy or sell land because there are no titles! Unless that is done, we are not going to be very competitive. These days, you need to invite as many investors in your constituency as possible to employ the young people. If I cannot attract them because there are no titles, that is under-developing my constituency and my constituents in Kenya! So, those are the two very serious issues that I have on my constituency. Now, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, on the general policy about land tenure, I think we must do something about land tenure again. The idea that somebody can be given an interest in land for 999 years is not tenable because that is his land, his grand children and great grand children! It is their land forever! They can decide to sit on it and do nothing about it. They can decide not to develop it and there is very little you can do about it. The Government cannot interfere because it has given them that land for 999 years! Then, of course, there are absolute title deeds that we also have. Sometimes, you want to change the policy and say: \"Well, instead of somebody having absolute interest in land, why can they not have so many years?\" That way, the Government can say: \"If you are not using this land for agricultural purposes, for which we created this interest, leave it for somebody else!\" The Government can also say: \"Pay us so much money per acre on your land!\" We pay rates for the land in the City here. Most people will surrender their land because it will be so expensive to pay some rates on an acre of land. The people who own all the land in Taveta will hand over their land to the Government to give to other people! The people who own the whole of Naivasha - and I hear there is one farmer who owns 88,000 hectares--- Or is it 90,000 hectares of land as hon. Mututho put it! He is doing completely nothing on it! They will surrender it to the people who want to use it! They will not pay! For example, if we just told them: \"Pay us Kshs100 per acre per year\", they will give it to the Government so that other people can make use of it! But the idea that somebody can sit on tracts and tracts of land, do nothing on it and enjoy the title of a \"land owner\" when people are dying of hunger, is not right! So, the land tenure policy must change. A lease must have conditions on it. If it is agricultural land and you are given a lease for 99 years, you must be told: \"You must do this and this on it! You must also pay us some rent on it!\" That way, people will surrender it quickly so that we can use it. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, last year, there was some money on the Settlement Fund - about Kshs1.8 billion. We saw it in the Budget. I understand that, that money was used to buy some farms in one area and settled the people from that area only! You cannot use public money totalling to Kshs1.8 billion to buy land somewhere and settle people from Mbita only, and think that you are developing this country! We must see that out of the Kshs1.8 billion, Kshs200 million was used in Mbita, Kshs200 million was used in Mau Forest and Kshs200 million was used in Kwale. That is how we can feel that public money is being used for the benefit of the people generally. I have looked at the Estimates this year and I have not seen any money for settlement and yet, we are telling people to move out of Mau Forest! We are saying that we are going to compensate those who have title deeds and there is no money in the Settlement Fund. So, I do not know how we are going to compensate them! Our policy must be backed with certain definite actions! That way, for example, when you say you are creating a district headquarters, and you know you are going to need land to build that headquarters, you must put money aside to compulsorily acquire land and pay land owners, so that they can make meaningful development. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, on city land, especially land which was grabbed - I do 1986 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES July 22, 2008 not usually use the word \"grabbed\" because it is not in law--- But those who have interest in the land in the city--- I see that land there, just next to Kenya Reinsurance Building. I am sure it was given to somebody just after Independence for a certain development in two years. The understanding was that somebody will do something on that land in two years and if he does not, it will be taken away and given to somebody else who has the money to develop it. But there are many court cases on it. I can see a parking there, which is informal because somebody cannot develop a proper parking. Why do you not, hon. Orengo, look at some of those grants which you gave, and which had clear conditions on what to do with the land, and if somebody has not performed according to the grant, take it away as it was provided for in the grant or the lease and give it to somebody who has the money to invest? That way, we will not have people becoming brokers; people who go to grab so that they can sell! They become speculators. That way, the people who are given land are the people who can develop it. I can tell you that, if you had money now, say US$100 million, and you entered America, they will give you land! You will not be called a grabber! They will give you land. They will give you the terms and conditions and the Mayor will make sure that you develop it in a few years! If you do not, they will give it to somebody else! Why do we not do the same so that we can use land for the purpose for which it was given to the people? Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, if you look at the land tenure, once again, and we charge some rent on land - not only idle land but any land that we have - people will start looking for other things, other than land, to sustain themselves! I think that will be a good thing for us. Not everybody needs to be a farmer, anyway! But the idea that people can be squatters for a lifetime is not right, especially in their grandfather's land! I have met people who have interest in the Mazrui land in the Coast. They say if the Government has money, it could buy it for them! They could be resettled there. Why do we not put in some public money to resettle our people? With those few remarks, I beg to support."
}