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{
"id": 192549,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/192549/?format=api",
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Orengo",
"speaker_title": "The Minister for Lands",
"speaker": {
"id": 129,
"legal_name": "Aggrey James Orengo",
"slug": "james-orengo"
},
"content": "Whenever somebody is doing a search, he is given this document which can run, in relation to some titles, into ten volumes. The lawyers and other people who normally have matters to do with the lands registry, would sit with those registers for a day or two; trying to look into the history of a title before they effect a transaction. Mr. Speaker, Sir, some of these titles run from the year 1918. For example, the first title on this register is for the year 1919. In respect of this title, you will find that the transactions are not just in this volume. They are in other volumes which look exactly like this. Mr. Speaker, Sir, when somebody is carrying out a personal search, he or she has a tendency of removing pages from this register of titles. For example, there is a page here where our officers had to reconstruct one of the titles. So, it is a sad state of affairs. That is why we are trying to discourage personal searches. The supporting document for these titles would be a deed file. The deed file basically consists of photocopies because the originals are with the owner of the land. So, every transaction, be it a mortgage, is contained in these deed files. When members of the public have access to a deed file, what they do is pluck out these copies and introduce fake title deeds and charges. I even have a file here - because each title has a corresponding file--- Mr. Speaker, Sir, when people are doing a search, they come with files that they have generated from outside. They take the official file, put it in their jackets and introduce a new file. For example, this is a file with the Ministry of Lands. They have introduced a fake title into the system. They have even gone further and subdivided the land on the basis of a fake title. Every time they do any transaction, they do a search to make sure that what they have done is reflected in the records. Mr. Speaker, Sir, they go even to the Kenya Airports Authority (KAA) and get a letter which is forged. The property owner may find out that somebody else is holding a title deed to his land. Two weeks ago, I had a family which had spent Kshs100 million on a fake title deed. So, at some point, I will plead with the House that we need the money to computerise our records, so that somebody can check on line. It will be a lot cheaper. You can imagine somebody sitting with this register for two or three days and every time, we have to post an officer to oversee what that person is doing. Literally, we have to employ extra staff to supervise what is happening. There are about 100 people at any one time doing a search. June 24, 2008 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 1317 So, I am pleading with you that, short of increasing the fees in order to minimise those who are conducting searches, it is going to be an impossible task. There are other people who conduct searches but, at the end of the day, they do not collect certified copies of those results of the searches. For your information, for the time being, I have suspended those fees that we had gazetted until further notice."
}