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"id": 194654,
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"speaker_name": "Mr. Muthama",
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"legal_name": "Johnson Nduya Muthama",
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"content": "Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to share my experiences with my colleagues here because my understanding is that there is absolutely nothing 954 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES May 8, 2008 new in what has been printed here. The reason I am saying this is that 99 per cent of my business deals with exports. Today, if I export goods to the USA, the UK or South Korea, my customers will pay me through wire transfer. When that wire transfer reaches my bank account, despite the fact that the bank is very much aware that my business deals with exports; before the money is credited to my account, the bank will seek to know from me why that money is being paid into my account. At that point, my company will submit an invoice that was sent to the customer and also export documents, which include the permit to export gemstones from the Commissioner of Mines and other relevant Ministries. After verification of those documents, the money will be put into my account. What I am trying to say is that there is absolutely nothing new in this Bill. The law has been there. What I understand is that the Minister is trying to refine and make them effective. In 2001/2002 and backwards, this economy was almost brought to its knees. The reason was that money was exchanging hands without control. There was plenty of money in the market. People could walk into the bank and deposit Kshs6 million or Kshs7 million in cash and nobody could give evidence on where that money used to come from. If the circulation of money is not controlled and if strict measures are not applied, Kenyans who work hard, like those who are in the Civil Service and the private sector, will be made to suffer. I am saying this because drug trafficking is one way of creating money laundering. Kenya has been regarded as one of the transit points of drug trafficking and money laundering. When this money gets into the country, somebody wakes up with Kshs50 million because he has sold drugs. That person goes to the market and buys a plot that was being sold yesterday for Kshs10 million at Kshs20 million. A Kenyan who has been working and sweating cannot raise Kshs20 million to buy such a property because its price has gone up to Kshs20 million. That way, money earned through sweat turns out to be absolutely nothing. I concur with the Minister and I want to ask him to make sure that those controls are applied properly. These laws must be tightened than ever before. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the money market, there is no justification at all for someone to bank Kshs10 million in cash without giving proof of where the money came from. I want to agree with my colleague who talked about NGOs and gifts to different religious groups, including Christian and Muslim organizations, that there has to be proof beyond reasonable doubt. Everybody who wants to send a gift to a religious group should have their address written somewhere. If someone is sending a gift from Dubai or the United Kingdom, there will be the address of the sender. That organisation must be established so that it does not encourage money laundering. At the end of the day, that money may be used to cause problems. Therefore, there must be proof of the sender of any funds to any religious group. It is not always true that you will find people who cannot cause problems among Christians or Muslims. They can be used as a stepping stone to cause problems through money laundering. We have bad people in churches, among the Muslims and in the NGOs. For that money to be authentic, the sender has to be established. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am happy that Mr. Okemo said that the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade will sit down and look at this Bill properly and make amendments where possible. I do not see any problems arising. The Departmental Committee belongs to Kenyans and the Ministry of Finance is also run by Kenyans. All those people who are concerned are working for the interest of this country. Therefore, I believe that they will come up with the right format that will give guarantee safety and protect Kenyans. I agree with all those who said that there could be witch- hunting and hatred among other things. Someone can come and allege that a certain property was acquired through money laundering. If you are employed or you are doing business which is known and the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) knows your returns and progress, I do not think there would be any doubt. May 8, 2008 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 955 However, if you wake up one day with sacks of money and start running from one bank to another, you must be questioned. That money must have come through unacceptable means. I want to support this Bill and wish that those who will make amendments will do it for the interest Kenyans."
}