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"id": 19547,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/19547/?format=api",
"text_counter": 243,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Orengo",
"speaker_title": "The Minister for Lands",
"speaker": {
"id": 129,
"legal_name": "Aggrey James Orengo",
"slug": "james-orengo"
},
"content": " Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I will try to be as brief as possible. I know we have already debated the Police Service Commission Bill. However, I am not sure if it has been assented to by the President. If it has, then the issues on the terms and conditions of service of the police or other matters that affect the police, I will not dwell on that because they are appropriately addressed by that legislation because we did give our views during the presentation for debate of that particular Bill. I would also wish to say that in supporting this Bill and welcoming the establishment of this Authority, that is the Independent Policing Oversight Authority, this time round I hope that the creation of this body will bring a change in the manner that will make the police accountable for the work they do. I am also conscious of the fact that there must be some balance because if we have an oversight authority like the one we are creating, if there is no sufficient balance on their responsibilities and the general mandate and functions of the police service, you may create a situation whereby the police feel that this authority is going beyond its mandate and making it very difficult for it to discharge its functions. So, from the outset, I hope that we will create that balance. The creation of these oversight bodies sometimes can interfere or place hurdles against institutions which are very important. I want to note that in all democracies as we understand them today, without a proper police force and an efficient police force all the rights and privileges that every citizen has under the Constitution may be a figment of one’s imagination. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to tell a story. Once, I went to a police station trying to get somebody released because in my view, the arrest was unjustified. He had been kept in custody for a long time and the circumstances under which he was arrested were wanting and questionable. This was in Nakuru. As a lawyer armed with the Constitution and all manner of tools of trade, I told the police officer in charge of the province that it was against the law to hold that particular individual for more than 48 hours and the offence that was recorded or the allegations contained in the occurrence book (OB) were of such a nature that they would not amount to felony. It was just a simple misdemeanor. I tried to argue my case out and I tried to impress upon the police officer that it was against the Constitution and the law to hold a citizen who had not been charged before a court of competent jurisdiction for a longer period than is necessary and without being taken to court. This police officer told me that “you may know the law, that is your problem, but as far as I am concerned and being a police officer, I only understand power. Now that I hold the power to detain and keep this man in custody, you can go to court if you wish or you can go anywhere and make the report”. It was very frustrating because we tried to come to Nairobi and make those complaints to other higher authorities but, of course, those were the days of very authoritarian rule. We were not able to get anywhere. With the creation of this Authority, there should be a difference. I want to echo what hon. Mungatana was saying that if we have an institution like this which is based in Nairobi and is not well spread out, and we know most of the abuses are taking place in the rural areas, there cannot be any value in the creation of an authority like this one. Indeed, now that I see hon. Affey here, it reminds me of another incident when I went for a case in Mandera. Those days, it was the District Commissioners who used to conduct criminal proceedings. I had been instructed by some very well to do citizens from Mandera and they actually put me on a charter flight to Mandera. These individuals had stayed in custody for nearly six months, they had never been charged, they were still in a police station and other than the District Commissioner, there was no other judicial board to complain to or file an application in the neighborhood. In Garissa, there was not a judge of the High Court and I believe the situation is the same. So, imagine if you are being persecuted, arrested falsely or falsely charged or detained in Mandera and the Board is based in Nairobi. By the time you get your complaint lodged and they get the relevant information and documentation, it will be a year or two. I can tell you that the injustice that relates to police abuses are injustices that relate to human rights. When human rights are abused, they should be corrected expeditiously if not immediately. I would encourage the Minister - this is something I heard him whispering - that it may be an administrative process, but it needs to be put in place as quickly as possible, so that if I have a problem in Siaya, I do not have to travel all the way to Nairobi to lodge a complaint or if I was in Lodwar, I do not have to come all the way to Nairobi. Otherwise, it may not serve the purpose for which it is being established. As I speak, there is the Kenya National Commission for Human Rights. I have represented this body in court in instances where they have been denied access to police stations although their enabling legislation gives them power to enter into police stations and to make inquiries and make a determination not only at the status of police stations, but on the basis of those who may be detained or in the course of their duties, when they are dealing with complaints. I can tell you also that I did not have a very good experience in that because neither the court, nor the police authorities would accede to the fact that there was a new dispensation; a new way of thinking and a new way of looking at the law that gave certain powers, especially on monitoring abuses and violation of human rights, that this role now was directly with the Kenya National Commission for Human Rights. But that did not impress the police officers that I dealt with. I hope that with the sequence that we have seen of how this legislation has come about, namely, we began with the Constitution, a very different Constitution from the one we had, the one we repealed last year, which recognizes the centrality of human rights as opposed to what was described in the previous Constitution as national interest or security considerations which most of the time were interpreted to override considerations of human rights. But we have an entirely new way of looking at things and a new worldview. The Minister did very well that as a consequence of the new Constitution, he brought two very important Bills basically to reform the police service. Without a reformed police service, this kind of legislation may not be very useful. I heard my colleague, the Assistant Minister, Ministry of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security, earlier when he was presenting this Bill, although I was not in the House and I think he got everything right, but now he is changing the spirit of this law into action. We all the time must look back into our history to understand why we are making all these changes, why we need a new police force with a very different kind of outlook with different values as enunciated in the Constitution. All this legislation is coming about because of the past; the history. I am very happy that for once, we have now an Inspector-General and a Police Service that will not be answerable or accountable to any Government in place except to the law and the Constitution, and not to any political outfit or formation. It is true, let me not go overboard, I think they will be accountable to some extent to a Government which is properly elected and is doing the appropriate work, but we now have parameters which are well established. We should never go back to the days when the police were used as a vehicle of carrying out oppression, intimidation and harassment. I, for one, had many of these experiences in the past, but that is now history. Let us look to the future and let us have regulations and systems that will make sure that this Board is going to be felt at the grassroots level. With those remarks, I support."
}