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"id": 196575,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/196575/?format=api",
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Kioni",
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"speaker": {
"id": 49,
"legal_name": "Jeremiah Ngayu Kioni",
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"content": "Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand in support of this Bill. I want to congratulate the Minister in charge for having brought this piece of legislation to this House. This Bill is important because it will help the accounting profession get rid of a few of the quacks who may have infiltrated it. It is also important because accountants perform a very important exercise in all the public and private companies. They are actually a focal point of the activities that are witnessed in these companies. I do not want to repeat a lot of what has been said. But one hon. Member who spoke before me said that any siphoning of money that has been done in this country has had an input from the accounting profession. It is important that we continue evaluating how these professions are regulated from time to time. It is for that reason that I believe that the Bill that is before us is very important, because we are going through a lot of changes in our economy. We have a lot of companies that are floating shares for public ownership. For those reasons, I want to support this Bill. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there are a couple of things that I would like to point out, which if addressed by the Minister in charge, will help us move on and, perhaps, help us end up in a better position that we are in now. Clause 14 of this Bill provides for the establishment of the Kenya Accountants and Secretaries National Examinations Board (KASNEB). Clause 14(2)(e) states:- The Examinations Board- (e) may acquire, hold and dispose of investments in other enterprises subject to approval by the Minister;\" It is important for the Minister, if it is possible, in one way or another to let hon. Members and those in the profession know how they would benefit from the proceeds from such disposal of investments. April 16, 2008 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 511 Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the other area that is important to address is Clause 15. Clause 15 deals with the membership of the Examinations Board. Members will be drawn from various sections as contained in 15(1)(a) all the way to 15(1)(g). However, Clause 15(1)(h) provides that two members of the Examinations Board shall be nominated by the Board. How can a Board that is being nominated be required to nominate members to the same Board that will not have been constituted, or that is to be constituted? It is important that the Minister reviews that provision, so that we do not make it very difficult for the Board to operate. We also do not want to allow people to perpetuate themselves in this Board forever. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also have an issue with Clause 17, which deals with the Functions of the Examinations Board. Clause 17(1)(c) requires that the Board will issue certificates. It is a practice with other professional bodies that some of these certificates are held for periods that are inordinately long. It may be important for the Minister to specify within which time such certificates should be issued and released to those who are supposed to benefit from them. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I move on to Clause 19, which concerns those who are required to practise as accountants. Clause 19(2), to my understanding, seeks to exclude people who are salaried, or those who are employed by the Government, from the provisions of this Bill. It is important that those individuals also be brought under the requirements of this Bill. In any case, in the past, where we have experienced a lot of loss of money through mismanagement or fraudulent activities, more of it has been in the Ministries. When we exclude persons undertaking accounting work from the provisions of this Bill, we may not be helping the Government to become more accountable. I propose that even those working for the Government be required to meet the requirements of this Bill once it is passed into law. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, Clause 26 deals with qualifications for registration. Clause 26(3)(a) to (c) state:- \"Notwithstanding subsection (1) or (2), the Council may require a person making an application for registration to satisfy the Registration Committee, in such manner as it may direct, that the person has- (a) adequate knowledge of local law and practice; (b) adequate experience in accounting; and (c) acceptable professional conduct and general character which, in the opinion of the Committee, make such person a fit and proper person to be registered, and unless the person so satisfies the Registration Committee, he shall not be treated as being qualified to be registered.\" These are very subjective requirements that can always be misused at any given time. It is important to specify what adequate knowledge means, or at least set criteria for assessing what adequate knowledge will be taken to mean. Equally, when we talk of adequate experience in accounting, this, again, is a very vague and subjective phrase that will certainly be misused by those who will be in office, because this has been done in other professions. Clause 26(3)(c) emphasises the issue of the opinion of the Committee. This is another very subjective requirement. It will keep changing with changes in the Board. It is important that this be set against criteria that can be measured in one way or another. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me now move on to Clause 30, which has disciplinary provisions. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, again, I am echoing the sentiments of Mr. Githae. There is no provision on how the profession will be policed. The policing of this profession is lacking in this Clause. This is something that has given a headache to other professional bodies, because disciplinary measures are put in place, but how they get to catch up with people who misbehave in the profession, especially those who are not members of the Institute of Certified Public Accountants of Kenya (ICPAK), or those who do not fall within the purview of this Bill--- How such people can be disciplined is something that is important and needs to be looked into. 512 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES April 16, 2008 When the Bill goes to the relevant Departmental Committee, that aspect should be captured and provided for, so that once the Bill is enacted, it will be enforced far and wide. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, again, under Clause 31 which deals with the issue of the Disciplinary Committee the same issue will come up again. I have mentioned that the issue of policing this profession is very important. Another crucial thing is that of the Committee. Clause 31(3)(b) provides:- \"The members of the Disciplinary Committee shall be appointed by the Minister from amongst persons nominated in the following manner- (b) one nominated by the Council from another profession other than accountancy;\" This is very vague. It will be prone to misuse, because we have very many other professions. It is important that some direction be given, as to what the other profession(s) will be. Perhaps, we could, for example, think of using the Association of Professional Societies of East Africa (APSEA). May be, we could provide that the chairman of such an institution will represent other professions; or other criteria can easily be specified instead of leaving the situation so vaguely provided for. The same would apply to Section 31(d) where one is nominated by an organisation that promotes corporate governance. Again, this is something that is very vague. With corporate governance, I do not know how you would arrive at the organisation that will do the nomination. Again, you do not know how to gauge those that promote corporate governance and, perhaps, those that may be seen to be promoting, but are in essence working against the same idea that they are supposed to promote. That leaves me with the provisions under the First Schedule which deals with the election of the Chairman. The whole of Section 2 under the First Schedule regarding the Chairman of the institute deals with the appointment of a person to act as a Chairman. This whole exercise has been left to the Minister. I foresee a problem with the institution in the event that the Minister is not able to move with speed so that the institution is able to function or if we find ourselves in a scenario like we were in a few months ago where we could end up without a Minister for a while. That means that the institution will not be functioning because it will have to wait for the politicians to do their things so that professional bodies can function. I propose that this issue be divorced from politicians and be left to the Council. In the event that they need an acting Chairman, I think the Council can very easily pick one so that they are able to function even if politics have come to a standstill. The other major issue under the same provision, that is, the First Schedule, Section 2, is that when you have the Minister doing all that is provided for under that Section, then I think it is really interfering with the functions of this Council. It is important that these institutions be allowed to function outside the political arena without too much interference from the Minister. With those few remarks, I support the Bill."
}