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"id": 207657,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/207657/?format=api",
"text_counter": 214,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Katuku",
"speaker_title": "The Minister for Water and Irrigation",
"speaker": {
"id": 281,
"legal_name": "John Mutua Katuku",
"slug": "mutua-katuku"
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"content": "I have appreciated the comments which have been made by several hon. Members, and I want to assure those who have raised concerns, and those who have commended the Ministry, that we greatly appreciate. I will try to respond to some of the issues, but I want to assure hon. Members that I came with the entire team from my Ministry, led by the Permanent Secretary, who have been keenly listening here since we started debate. I want to thank the team, because they have been taking notes and I am sure that some of the issues which I may not respond to now will be responded to out there in the field. For any concern that any hon. Member has about my Ministry, we have an open-door policy. Anybody can come and discuss it with my officers at the headquarters, boards, districts and even in the divisional headquarters, where you find officers who work in the Ministry. One more thing I want to commend hon. Members for is the way they have utilised their CDF on the water sector. Starting with my own CDF, I have spent more than 40 per cent of the budget I get on the water sector. I have also seen that in other constituencies hon. Members have put a lot of their money into the water sector and I want to compliment them. I also want to compliment hon. Members for the interest they have shown in following up monies allocated by this House, especially to the Ministry of Water and Irrigation. I have seen many hon. Members coming to the Ministry to either confirm, complain or compliment the way we utilise these funds. I would want to appeal to all hon. Members to take interest, not only in the money allocated to the Ministry of Water and Irrigation, but also the money allocated to all the Ministries. This is because we have people who implement these programmes on the ground. Those of us at the headquarters may not notice some of the things. It would be good if hon. Members visited some of these projects, so that they can draw our attention to areas where they think we are not doing well. We will be helpful not only to the hon. Members, but to the people who are supposed to benefit; that is, the taxpayers who are supposed to get the returns for their money. After all, the money that we are asking for here comes from the taxpayers. Therefore, it must also be properly utilised. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Members have commented on the reforms that we are undertaking in the Ministry. I also want to appreciate the support that they have given the reform process. The reform process started many years even before I moved to the Ministry. I 3404 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007 would want to commend the previous holder of my portfolio; hon. Karua, and also the members of staff in the Ministry, for working together to ensure that the reforms take root. Any change always faces resistance. We have faced a lot of resistance and challenges. I want to commend those who have been working with us to undertake these reforms. Hon. Muchiri asked whether we can say whether we are doing well on reforms or not. I would want to say that we are doing very well on the reforms. We are happy with the reforms and results that we are getting from them; even though any new thing has its own teething problems. We have been addressing the teething problems as we go along. I would want to appeal to hon. Members to support the process. They should point out where they think that we are not doing well. That is why I have ensured that all the Chief Executive Officers of the boards in various regions are in this House to hear the concerns of hon. Members, so that they can see how they can also reform alongside the reforms which are being undertaken. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Ndambuki talked about disparities in terms of allocation of resources. He said that for the last four years, we have been unfair to some areas. He cited some areas like Nyeri, Kisumu and others. There are reasons for each kind of allocation that we give to different areas. Some of them have to do with the Ministry's policy. For example, we had a policy to ensure that we have affirmative action on Arid and Semi-Arid Lands (ASALs) which have been lagging behind in terms of water. That is why we have allocated Kshs1.1 billion to address the issue of the distance people in ASALs travel to get water for their animals. That is also why some regions in this country have been getting more boreholes and dams than others. That has to do with the Ministry's policy to ensure that those areas which have been having water problems are addressed. There are also issues to do with the donor interests. Some donors come on board and say that they want to undertake some projects in a particular area, because of their own interests. As a Government, we have to give 10 per cent of our input to such projects. A good example is in Kisumu. An hon. Member asked why we spent Kshs1.5 billion in Kisumu last year. That is a project that we are doing with AFD. We are also doing a similar project with the Japanese Government in Nyeri, which is almost complete. These are donor-funded projects. That is why they have been allocated huge sums of money. We are also moving to other towns, especially major towns so that we can provide them with adequate water. For example, Wajir Town now has adequate water. That is why there are disparities in terms of the allocations. We have also given our boards autonomy to look at how they can work with donors and other development partners and, because some of them are moving faster than others, you will find those kind of disparities. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the amount of money that we want to spend this financial year is about Kshs15 billion. This is an increment from the allocation by the previous administration, which was Kshs2.3 billion in the 2002/2003 Financial Year. That is a substantial increment, but it is not adequate. As the Minister in charge, I would want us to spend more than that. I would be happy if we spent more than Kshs60 billion yearly, to achieve some of the objectives that we have in the Ministry. However, we cannot achieve this because of financial constraints. We are talking to the Treasury to see how we can get more funding. I am happy that the hon. Members of this House have supported this initiative. Like I said, we have just concluded the formulation of the Irrigation Policy. We would like to do irrigation on about 20,000 hectares yearly. Of course, we would like to make our contribution in order to achieve Vision 2030 and that would require not less than Kshs30 billion yearly. Therefore, we need the Ministry to be allocated more money by this House. I am happy that the hon. Members have raised this issue and the Treasury has heard this. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, a concern was raised by the Member of Parliament for Siakago Constituency, hon. Muturi, who happens to be very keen on a particular project. I want to agree entirely with him. That programme has its own problem. When I joined the Ministry, that programme was not running. It involves not only the Ministry of Water and Irrigation, but the August 22, 2007 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3405 Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources, Ministry of Gender, Sports, Culture and Social Services and Ministry of Agriculture. It has so many components. I think, in terms of the design of the project, something went wrong. There was too much emphasis on capacity building, community mobilisation and so on. I have held meetings with the officers concerned and my team, and we are trying to see how we can implement that programme faster in terms of getting real and tangible programmes in place. I want to admit that it is one of the programmes in the Ministry of Water and Irrigation which I, personally, find that it was not properly designed. However, I want to assure the House that we are re-looking at it, so that we make it beneficial. In terms of cases of corruption, I want to assure this House that we will take action. If there are people who can sit under a tree and say that there was a meeting where it was agreed to train 300 farmers or villagers, but it never took place, we want that information. That is corruption and we will take action. We cannot allow it in the Ministry. With regard to the sentiments raised by hon. Sambu, where we have officers who have their personal problems, we appeal to hon. Members to give us their names, because we cannot let down the Ministry. If one officer in the field is not doing his or her best, let us have that information and we will deal with such cases. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the need to protect catchment areas was key to this debate. My officers and I have heard the sentiments of the hon. Members. I am happy that even the Minister for Environment and Natural Resources and Minister for Lands have been listening to the debate. That is one area where we have a big challenge. As a nation, we must address the issue of water catchment areas altogether. It cannot be left to the Ministry of Water and Irrigation or Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources neither the villagers alone. We must work as a team. I agree with Prof. Maathai's suggestion of the need for different Ministries to work together. That is already there. We want to see more results on this. She also suggested that we should set time for planting trees. That is a very good suggestion. We will look at it. I will liaise with my colleague, the Minister for Environment and Natural Resources, whom we have worked together before at the Treasury, so that we can ensure that the Water Resource Management Authority, National Environment Management Authority and other institutions in our Ministries work together to see how we can protect our catchment areas. It was only yesterday that we launched the strategy for the Water Resource Management Authority. We want to see more participation by all the stakeholders, so that we can protect our catchment areas. I want to appeal to hon. Members and politicians out there to be responsible. They should not protect fellows who are cutting down trees or persons who are cultivating up to the rivers. When we push them out, they want to get some political protection. We will not listen to that. I want hon. Members to also agree with me on that. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Members have raised concerns about the issue of rain-harvesting. That is one area where we are trying as a Ministry. We want to build more pans and dams. In this financial year, for example, I am proposing to construct 180 new boreholes. Last year, we constructed 227 boreholes. In terms of the dams, last year, we constructed 308 dams. We are going to construct 189 dams this year for water harvesting. We are also having a programme where we are doing roof catchment. We have, through some water boards, given tanks to schools and other institutions, to develop that culture. I want to appeal to hon. Members to also come in, in terms of educating our people out there, so that we can have the culture of water harvesting. It is lacking among our people. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also want to commend Mr. Muchiri when he talked about local authorities. In fact, I have written to the Minister for Local Government. We are consulting on how we can make it mandatory that, before plans for construction of houses in urban and rural areas are approved, they must have a component for water harvesting. You must show in your drawing that you will do a tank, so that we can also, together, deal with the issue of water harvesting. It is a major issue. In the last financial year, we were able to add, the saving of water, 3406 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007 about 14 million cubic metres of water. That will go a long way. But I also want to appeal to hon. Members in terms of the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) and other funds like the Local Authorities Transfer Fund (LATF). They should also look at how we can address the issue of water harvesting. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, several hon. Members raised the issue of sewerage systems. They said that we are under-funding the same. Regarding the money that you are seeing in the books - about Kshs122 million - there is another component from donor support of about Kshs500 million. There is a substantial amount in that area. But that is not adequate because our towns are growing. That is a big challenge. We must have water and sewerage systems which are working. We are also in the process of implementing the board and say that they want to undertake some projects in a particular area, because of their own interests. As a Government, we have to give 10 per cent of our input to such projects. A good example is in Kisumu. An hon. Member asked why we spent Kshs1.5 billion in Kisumu last year. That is a project that we are doing with AFD. We are also doing a similar project with the Japanese Government in Nyeri, which is almost complete. These are donor-funded projects. That is why they have been allocated huge sums of money. We are also moving to other towns, especially major towns so that we can provide them with adequate water. For example, Wajir Town now has adequate water. That is why there are disparities in terms of the allocations. We have also given our boards autonomy to look at how they can work with donors and other development partners and, because some of them are moving faster than others, you will find those kind of disparities. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the amount of money that we want to spend this financial year is about Kshs15 billion. This is an increment from the allocation by the previous administration, which was Kshs2.3 billion in the 2002/2003 Financial Year. That is a substantial increment, but it is not adequate. As the Minister in charge, I would want us to spend more than that. I would be happy if we spent more than Kshs60 billion yearly, to achieve some of the objectives that we have in the Ministry. However, we cannot achieve this because of financial constraints. We are talking to the Treasury to see how we can get more funding. I am happy that the hon. Members of this House have supported this initiative. Like I said, we have just concluded the formulation of the Irrigation Policy. We would like to do irrigation on about 20,000 hectares yearly. Of course, we would like to make our contribution in order to achieve Vision 2030 and that would require not less than Kshs30 billion yearly. Therefore, we need the Ministry to be allocated more money by this House. I am happy that the hon. Members have raised this issue and the Treasury has heard this. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, a concern was raised by the Member of Parliament for Siakago Constituency, hon. Muturi, who happens to be very keen on a particular project. I want to agree entirely with him. That programme has its own problem. When I joined the Ministry, that programme was not running. It involves not only the Ministry of Water and Irrigation, but the Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources, Ministry of Gender, Sports, Culture and Social Services and Ministry of Agriculture. It has so many components. I think, in terms of the design of the project, something went wrong. There was too much emphasis on capacity building, community mobilisation and so on. I have held meetings with the officers concerned and my team, and we are trying to see how we can implement that programme faster in terms of getting real and tangible programmes in place. I want to admit that it is one of the programmes in the Ministry of Water and Irrigation which I, personally, find that it was not properly designed. However, I want to assure the House that we are re-looking at it, so that we make it beneficial. In terms of cases of corruption, I want to assure this House that we will take action. If there are people who can sit under a tree and say that there was a meeting where it was agreed to train 300 farmers or villagers, but it never took place, we want that information. That is corruption and we will take action. We cannot allow it in the Ministry. August 22, 2007 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3407 With regard to the sentiments raised by hon. Sambu, where we have officers who have their personal problems, we appeal to hon. Members to give us their names, because we cannot let down the Ministry. If one officer in the field is not doing his or her best, let us have that information and we will deal with such cases. same in terms of designs. Some of them will take time. But I want to assure this House that we are moving towards ensuring that every urban centre has a sewer system which works. That way, sanitation will be looked after in every area. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Members raised the issue of water tariffs. As far as the Ministry is concerned, we have a system. No board or water company can come up and fix water tariffs or prices without consultations. The last time we reviewed that was in 1999. I have not yet issued any gazette notices of any new tariffs. But where there are companies which are exploiting the consumers, let us know. The regulator is there to look at those issues. I know there are about three hon. Members who have talked about that issue. I will go and check on what is happening in that area. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the issue of District Officers in relation to CDF and other funds like the LATF--- Sometime this year, there was a Question that came to this House about the same. We are also finding it very difficult, as a Ministry, in terms of what we are expected to do within our budget--- That is in terms of design and planning. We have a budget that is very limited. But we get other requests from hon. Members, authorities and people coming up with programmes which need to be funded and designed. I appeal to hon. Members for understanding between us and the officers on the ground. But I will not allow any officer to go out of his or her way to charge any professional fees for any design that he or she is doing. But if he or she is asking for a paper or something which he or she does not have to design or draw whatever you want him or her to draw, you can provide that service. If he or she wants to be moved from point one to two or point \"A\" to \"B\", and he or she does not have the fuel, you can fuel the car. But he or she does not require to be paid anything. But if he or she sleeps out there and he does not have an allocation from the Ministry, I want to appeal to hon. Members to look at it at that level. They should not be charging anything. I will not allow that. I have said that before. If we have those kind of officers who are charging, let me know so that I can take action. That way, we can also work together. We feel that we are complementing what you are doing. So, designing a programme for you is just encouraging you to do it, so that we get more water for our people. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, Mr. Wetangula and several other hon. Members talked about Lake Victoria. Mr. Ahenda talked about the treaty. He also talked about the war. I want to assure the hon. Member that the war will not originate from that area. That is because, as the riparian countries in the region, the Ministers for Water in the ten countries within the Lake Victoria catchment area and basin have been working together for the last ten years. It is only last month when we concluded the treaty. There is only one aspect that has to be sorted out by the Heads of States. It is before them. Once that is sorted out, the treaty will be brought to this House. You can have a look at it and debate on it. That is where we are. Nobody will be allowed to over- exploit others. We are setting up a commission in Kisumu to look at the issue of Lake Victoria. It will ensure that there is no over-exploitation by any State. The catchment areas will also be protected. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, programmes that cut across the National Irrigation Board (NIB) are there. Mr. Wanjala, just last week, undertook to visit some of those programmes in Nangurai, where we were told that they are not working. I am sure we will get a report very soon. We also have trans-boundary programmes like the Mara. Those programmes are real and, soon, they will bear fruits. We will get water to those people. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the issue of reforms, some hon. Members think there is bureaucracy. I want to appeal to hon. Members--- We organised several seminars for hon. 3408 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007 Members to understand the reforms. Unfortunately, very few hon. Members turned up. Next time, when we organise another workshop, I would like to see many hon. Members attending. That way, we can be together in this. There is need for every stakeholder to understand where we are in terms of reforms. We do not want to operate in isolation. We would rather be together. That is why I am saying that, when you get those invitations, find time to come. You will know where to go when you need that money. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in this Budget, we are proposing that about Kshs4 billion will go to the boards. Some of the hon. Members do not even know where their boards are. Those boards are not constituted on political grounds. They are not constituted in terms of our regional boundaries like provincial administration boundaries. Water does not follow the provincial administration boundaries, neither does it follow tribal arrangements. It follows its natural way. That is why you find some people are in Lake Victoria North and yet, they are from another region. The grouping of those boards has nothing to do with the tribal and geographical arrangements. The people upstream and those downstream must work together within that one catchment area, so that the people upstream do not mess with the water. The people downstream will have no water for their needs. That is why we need people to understand that arrangement. Mr. Ndambuki talked about the lack of water in Machakos and Makueni. We are addressing that issue very seriously. Soon, we will be getting out of it. Mr. ole Metito also talked about water in certain towns. I want to assure him that, as a friend of mine, we are looking at that very seriously. Soon, we will get that done. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I may not be able to touch on every aspect that was mentioned. But I want to assure hon. Members that I have heard them. I am very happy. My officers have felt very encouraged by the way hon. Members have contributed. I am sure that, out of your comments, we are going to deliver better services to Kenyans. We will do that with your support. With those few remarks, I beg to move."
}