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{
"id": 217540,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/217540/?format=api",
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Munya",
"speaker_title": "The Assistant Minister, Office of the President",
"speaker": {
"id": 279,
"legal_name": "Joseph Konzolo Munyao",
"slug": "joseph-munyao"
},
"content": " Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have, time and again, said that we will not negotiate with those criminals. If you negotiate with criminals, you legitimise their criminal activities. This Government is not prepared to do that. I know there have been recommendations not only from one Minister, but also from leading Opposition figures that the Government should enter into talks with that criminal gang. That is not the approach of this Government. Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is no economy with the truth. What I have issued is a very detailed Ministerial Statement. Our concentration, as a Government, is not to harass any particular religious group. What we are concerned about is the criminal aspect. We would not be concerned if somebody wanted to have long hair or sniff tobacco. What we are concerned with is the criminal aspect of the Mungiki sect. That is why we have been pursuing them because we can see their activities are also connected with criminal activities. If they were just a religious group pursuing their own traditions, we would not be bothered. But we get bothered when we realise that they are extorting money and killing people. That is what we follow up. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the mere fact that there are leaflets going round when we do not know the source--- Sometimes, even politicians throw leaflets around to tarnish other people's names. The mere fact that there were leaflets naming people is not enough to tell us to go and arrest Ministers. If Mr. Raila has better information, and he seems to have better information because he says he 1932 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES June 20, 2007 knows the high command, why has he not gone to the police station to give that information? We have been asking him - and he seems to have a lot of information - to help the police with that information so that, whoever is involved, whether he or she is a Minister or not, is arrested. But he has not been forthcoming! The pictures he has--- He can take them to a police station. We will try to find out whether they are authentic pictures or frame-ups. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to say that we do not have any evidence anywhere that any Minister or hon. Member is involved or is a member of the Mungiki sect. What we have is information that some of them have been using them for their political purposes. We have seen some of them going to police stations to record statements. But, so far, we have not got any evidence that an hon. Member or a Minister is a member of that sect. Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the Kamukunji rally, the police went to that venue to apprehend anybody who would have gone there. Nobody came there! If they were coming to a scene, how else do you arrest them if you do not go there? You have to go there to arrest them. They never came there. If they came, they would have been arrested! Mr. Speaker, Sir, the people who were killed in Mathare slums were exchanging fire with the police. In fact, it was a fierce battle between those gangsters and the police. So, when an hon. Member stands here and says those were all innocent people who were killed--- There are hon. Members who want the Government to be hard on crime. But on the other hand, they are busy exonerating criminals. They have no evidence. They were not at the scene! Other than reading the newspapers and hearing allegations, they were not at the scene. They do not have any information. It is always important for leaders to cross-check the information they have before going out to the public to accuse others. When it comes to security matters, let us all be responsible. If you hear the Government is pursuing criminals, do not link other leaders to those criminal activities, unless you have information. If you have the information, it makes better use for you, if you take it to the police for purposes of making use of it and arresting those who are responsible. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Mungiki cells may not be as widespread as some of us might believe. They are mainly concentrated in some pockets of Central Province. In fact, it is not the entire Central Province. In Nairobi, they are mainly in a few areas in Eastlands. I know right now that the police are up to the task. We have been able bring the sect under control. We will continue dealing with them until we wipe them out. We also intend to wipe out any other gang that anybody might want to start in future. Thank you."
}