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"id": 247795,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/247795/?format=api",
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Wetangula",
"speaker_title": "The Assistant Minister for Foreign Affairs",
"speaker": {
"id": 210,
"legal_name": "Moses Masika Wetangula",
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"content": " Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This Bill is long overdue. We have been moving backwards and forwards on the legislation on HIV/AIDS. I congratulate the Minister for finally bringing the Bill to the Floor of this House. As you know, this is the third legislation since Independence, that seeks to bring a legal framework on the prevention of a disease or a combination of diseases. The only previous laws are the Public Health Act, Cap.242 of the Laws of Kenya and Malaria Prevention Act, Cap.246. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, HIV/AIDS is a scourge that, each and everyone of us here, has either been affected or encountered in the course of our duty as Members of Parliament. Our constituents, friends and relatives have been affected in one way or another. We all know that, so far, HIV/AIDS has no cure. It is a disease that has far reaching implications to an economy, particularly of a developing country like Kenya. It is with that in mind that we need a legal framework for prevention, education and management of all other related issues regarding HIV/AIDS. This Bill is very comprehensive. It has all the needed provisions to deal with HIV/AIDS. As we deal with HIV/AIDS, I want to encourage the Minister not to forget about the resurgence of other deadly diseases like Tuberculosis (TB). I am told that TB is on the rise at a very alarming rate. We all know that TB is one of the opportunistic diseases that claim HIV/AIDS patients. Malaria remains the biggest killer in tropical countries in the whole world. Even as we have the Malaria Prevention Act, its management has not been effective. So, I hope that, once we pass this Bill, we will rejuvenate the process of public education, management and caring for HIV/AIDS patients. The Bill provides for free flow of information under various circumstances on issues affecting HIV/AIDS patients. It is absolutely important that persons who deal with the management of HIV/AIDS patients like doctors, those who embalm bodies, those who run massage parlours and so on are able to have legal protection. It is provided for in this Act. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Clause 9(1) of the Bill suggests that a person who offers to donate any tissue shall, immediately before such donation, undergo an HIV/AIDS test. That may June 8, 2006 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 1249 discourage people from donating tissues. People fear stigmatising issues. Perhaps, we should say that any tissue donated should be subjected to a test, so that those who want to donate tissues can do so without fearing that they will later discover they have HIV/AIDS. Many people, whether we like it or not--- Even among our colleagues here, if you tell them to go through that door for a test, you will see how many will go through it! It will be good if we test tissues after donation, just like they do in blood. If you donate blood, it is tested. If it is infected, it is thrown away. By that time, the donor has already left. That would be a much better way for our society to donate tissues, rather than subjecting people to tests before donation. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Clause 10 provides that all donated blood must be subjected to a test. That is very important and necessary because we have heard of cases where HIV/AIDS has been transmitted through blood transfusion. The Bill also provides for the protection of those who deal with patients on a day-to-day basis like dentists, mid-wives and embalmers by giving them the necessary surgical equipment. Once you have that, it becomes incumbent upon those who run those facilities to ensure that their workers and professionals are protected. If you go to rural clinics, or to many homes for the sick called private hospitals, once one is employed there, he or she is forced to do whatever the owner wants. But the law is here now. You cannot force a nurse to attend to a patient without providing gloves and other protection. That is absolutely important because it removes our professions, nurses and others from the line of danger. That is good foresight on the part of the Minister because we need to protect our people. In Clause 11, I would have liked the Minister to provide that any owner of a hospital, a nursing home, a massage parlour or any of those generic places who forces an employee to work without protection, commits a criminal offense and should be punished. That is the only way that you can provide a deterrent against money-hungry investors who do not care whether the workers are protected or not. Indeed, safe practices are the cardinal principles and cornerstones of medical practice. At the Committee Stage, I would like the Minister to consider expanding Clause 11, so that we can provide a penalty to offending owners and proprietors of hospitals, massage parlours, nursing homes, beauty care homes and all those institutions that have a skin interaction between the customers and the people who work there. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Bill also deals with the issue of compulsory testing. That is in conformity with the Constitution. I laud those who drafted the Bill because the Constitution protects the people from being forced to do anything that would amount to giving evidence against yourself, except in cases of defilement or rape, where the offender can be forced by the court to be forcefully tested to find out whether the accused is HIV+ or not. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, one very important Clause in this Bill is Clause 16, which provides for testing centres. Without offending the rules of sub judice, you know the scandal about a lady who proclaimed herself a prophetess, and the ring of fraudulent testing centres. They were pretending to pray for people and cure them of HIV/AIDS. After the prayers, you are taken to a fraudulent clinic where you are given a false certificate showing that you are now cured. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am happy that this Bill now takes care of those kind of fellows. You cannot have a ring of dishonest Kenyans; so dishonest to the level of preying on the plight of the sick. If a fraudster pounced on a healthy man like my colleague here, we can understand. But if you commit a fraud on a sick person, especially if you are a professional, it is a shame. Whoever calls himself a prophet or prophetess and enters an extortion ring and issues certificates to anybody pretending that you have been cured when you have not, you will be dealt with by this law. This is wonderful. I hope there will be enough capacity to enforce this law in order to stem this vice. In fact, the case of the prophetess in court is just one. There are so many others. And it is not just about HIV/AIDS. You remember the foreigner who came to Uhuru Park, hired some boys from the streets, folded their legs, prayed, unfolded their legs and said they had been cured from their 1250 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES June 8, 2006 disabilities. We have had these kind of issues. In the process, they make money from our people. It is important that we have a law that protects our people from those kind of things. I would wish that the penalty provided for offenders under this section is made even stiffer than it is provided in the draft Bill. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, because we all know that AIDS has no cure, those who are diagnosed to have it become helpless and desperate and they turn to any available avenue where a cure is promised. You have heard stories about even doctors; some even who have attained professorship, pretending that they have found a cure. We have heard of Pearl Omega and many others. They sell these drugs to Kenyans and defraud them of millions of shillings. This Clause should be widened, not just to deal with testing centres, but also all persons, including doctors and those professors that we all know, who have been pretending to have concocted cures for AIDS. There is an enterprise called Makini Herbal Clinic. Every Thursday and Friday, they announce on radio that they are appearing in Kisii or Bungoma and that all people with AIDS should turn up, they have a cure. The Minister for Health must rein in these fraudsters because we know, unless we are not being told the truth, that AIDS has no cure. Then, why do we allow persons who are not even trained doctors to announce on public media that they are going to cure people of AIDS. When they go there, the first thing you are asked is how much money you are carrying. We must expand this Clause to cover all those dishonest people. We must urge the Ministry to investigate, visit and check on these so-called herbal clinics that we see everyday being advertised. In fact, they even advertise in the print media. So, the Minister will not have a problem getting evidence; it is all there. If you go to KBC, you will get the clips of the advertisements every Thursday and Friday. You can rein in and we will be there to support you, Madam Minister. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Bill also, as it should, provides for confidentiality. AIDS being a disease that carries a terrible stigma, I think it is important that the identity of those who are diagnosed be protected, unless accentuating circumstances. For example, if you are a paedophile and you are HIV positive, I think it is absolutely necessary that you be published as duly as possibly for everybody to know you. In the UK, for instance, once you are convicted of paedophilia, you are branded so that everywhere you pass, it is clear that you are a paedophile. This should happen to rapists. There was the case of someone in the mid-eighties; a gentleman who took a co-operative loan and went to Nyeri and feasted on women, keeping a record while he was sick. When he was eventually arrested, he was taken to court. But he died before he was convicted. If he was convicted, one would have expected the court to order, and it has to be within the law, that such a fellow must be branded so that everywhere he passes, everybody knows who he is. That gentleman, and many who think like him, will now be caught up by this law, because the Bill provides a penalty for people who knowingly and wilfully infect others. This is good because we have many people who are so devious that they will always say \"I cannot die alone\". Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the provisions of Clause 24, I want to urge the Minister that while we need to deal firmly with those who transmit the disease, the penalty provided on page 157 is a bit too harsh. Generally, we know AIDS is a poor man's disease. I always share in the views of President Mbeki of South Africa, that AIDS spreads fastest in poor circumstances. Where you have poor people, you will find that their only source of recreation sometimes is sexual activity and nothing else. That is how AIDS spreads very quickly. When they drink chang'aa or other intoxicants, even if you distribute to them free condoms, a helplessly drunk person will not even know how to use it. So, when you proscribe a punishment of Kshs500,000 to a person who has transmitted AIDS, I think it is like giving a death sentence to a poor person. Perhaps, what we should do is to graduate the penalty. Although we are saying \"not exceeding Kshs500,000\", magistrates will always think that since Parliament thought of Kshs500,000, if I was to give half of it, it would be Kshs250,000. That is a lot of money to an ordinary poor person, by any standards. I June 8, 2006 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 1251 think we need to look at that to see whether that sentence is appropriate within all the circumstances of Kenya. If you come to Sirisia and you fine any of my constituents Kshs500,000, you are just sentencing them to death because they will go to jail and die there. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also want to mention something about the provision on insurance. This is really good. This Bill now says that insurance companies cannot deny you insurance or credit simply because of your HIV status. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I saw in my legal practice before I came to this House that when one is borrowing money or taking a mortgage, he or she is subjected to a compulsory HIV test. If one turns out positive, he does not get the mortgage. This is unconstitutional. It is good that this Bill says one's status of HIV should not exclude him or her from getting even a life insurance. The insurance providers can qualify the policy to take care of one's special status. It cannot disqualify one from getting a mortgage. They can only qualify ones condition to fit his or her special status. This is good, considerate and constitutional because we have been letting insurance and mortgage providers to act on Kenyans unconstitutionally. The Constitution says that one cannot be discriminated against purely on an issue of being in a condition like that, and many other conditions. But this Bill now is in conformity with the Constitution. I laud it. I hope its enforcement will be vigorous. Even if one is HIV positive and he has a family, he can take a mortgage. The family will live in it, even after he is gone. Why should one be denied a mortgage simply because he is HIV positive. This Bill is really laudable. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, one of the most important clauses in this Bill to me is Clause 39. It talks about research on persons by professionals who are dishonest. They just want to make their names. We all know the Majengo case where doctors from the United Kingdom (UK) in collusion with those from our own hospitals have been carrying out illegal and fraudulent tests and researches on women. If we want to turn any human being into a guinea pig, we should explain the circumstances, consequences and all attendant factors, including a payment for people subjecting themselves to those indignities. If we all recall, a month ago, there was a test of new drugs in the UK. People were called to volunteer and the research had not been properly done. One of the volunteers died immediately after an injection. The pharmaceutical company is now paying millions of pounds to the estate of that person. But here we have doctors from outside Kenya in collusion with our own doctors, under the noses of the Ministry of Health, walk to Majengo and Mathare slums and give women Kshs5,000, or sometimes a beer, and turn them into guinea pigs. This Bill now takes care of that. I would like the Minister to, in fact, provide for a very stiff penalty on any fellows who come to this country and do such things to our people. This is against human rights. It is dishonest, profiteering and fraudulent. We must stop it and take care of our people. Of course, the women they do these things to are poor. They will take anything. So, we must make it known to them that a law is now here to protect them. They should know that they can subject themselves to medical research knowingly and wilfully, but they must be paid for it. The public must know, especially the Ministry of Health. The Ministry will then advise them, first, of the consequences of that research and the benefits that should come to them, should the research be successful in any event. I think if that clause is enforced, that will be great. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, equally important is the creation of the Tribunal that will deal with all matters related to the administration of this Bill when it is passed. This is important because matters of this nature are better off dealt with in a specialized tribunal, instead of taking them to normal secular courts where facts take too long. Secondly, it is too public and sometimes the evidence adduced is embarrassing. But if it is within the Tribunal and limited audience, people will be free to talk what they want and assist each other. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the whole, this is a good Bill. I want to urge my colleagues to support it. For heavens' sake, as a country, Government and leaders, let us not pay all our energy 1252 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES June 8, 2006 and attention to HIV/AIDS pandemic and forget other diseases that are killing Kenyans. Malaria is killing Kenyans in their thousands. Likewise, Tuberculosis is back, killing Kenyans in their hundreds. We also have diarrhoea, dysentery and many other diseases. We must also address the issue of other diseases with the same strength and enthusiasm with which we are addressing HIV/AIDS. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to urge the Minister at the Committee Stage to find a clause to deal with fraudulent Non-Governmental Organizations (NGOs) that are fleecing the entire public of funds in the name of pretending to be educating people on the HIV/AIDS pandemic and providing all manner of activities for the same. Many people out there are carrying briefcases; talking about the HIV/AIDS scourge even when they do not know what it is all about. I think we need to protect the public from such people. The funds from the National AIDS Control Council (NACC) are sent out there to the Community Based Organizations (CBOs) and NGOs, but they end up in the pockets of the officials. They do not help the HIV/AIDS patients and victims. I think it is important that we have a clause in this Bill that deals with persons who pretend to be educators. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have been told over and over again that Kenyans are 98 per cent aware that the HIV/AIDS scourge is real and it kills and has no cure. However, everywhere we go, there are seminars about HIV/AIDS awareness. If we are 98 per cent aware, why do we have endless seminars about awareness? This has to be checked and controlled. The only way to do so, is by law. We should rein in those fraudulent characters carrying briefcases and pretending to be educators on the HIV/AIDS pandemic when they educate on nothing. All they are looking for is money. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I beg to second this wonderful Bill."
}