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"id": 273436,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/273436/?format=api",
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona",
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"speaker": {
"id": 376,
"legal_name": "Millie Grace Akoth Odhiambo Mabona",
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"content": "I would also just want to urge a re-looking at clause 9 which says that the Parliamentary Budget Office shall continue to exist as part of the Parliamentary Service. It is poor drafting and, maybe, if we want to set it up, we should set it in a more affirmative way instead of saying it shall continue. I want to speak about Clause 12 and I want to laud the Minister and the drafters, especially in relation to Clause 12(b) that provides that the National Treasury shall manage the level and composition of national public debt, national guarantees and other financial obligations of the national government within the framework of this Act and develop a framework for sustainable debt control. I know that a few years ago, we did a research where it was indicated that every child in Kenya at birth owes this country over Kshs40,000. Therefore, if we provide a framework for sustainable debt control, then it means we will not be bequeathing debt ridden children to this country. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also want to speak to the same clause that provides under (e), the National Treasury shall prescribe regulations that ensure that operations of a system under this paragraph respect and promote the distinctiveness of the national and county levels of government. This is very important and one of the things that this Bill seeks to do is just that. However, there are certain provisions that, having said that, do not actually respect that principle. You will see in many instances in this Bill where the national government strives to dominate the county government even in the structure of some of the authorities that have been set up. Therefore, if we want to live that principle, the entire Bill must live by that principle of ensuring distinctiveness so that we do not just mention it but yet, on the other hand, we do not ensure that it is effectively carried through. I also want to speak about Clause 13 and again there is redundancy. We are talking about where reasonably necessary. I think it should be where necessary. But the issue of concern is Clause 13(1)(b) which talks about state organs or other public entity. I think this might create problems in future because then, we will be trying to define what a public entity is. It is through clauses like this that the national government might try to manipulate county governments. So, I would like to encourage that we either state that other state organs or other national public entities or delete all together the sentence “public entity” because public entity is very vague. Therefore, you want to be sure that when you are talking about the control and mandate you are giving national government, it is national public entity. It is not county public entity because that makes it a little vague. I would also want the Minister, in his response, to just address the issue of what mischief was sought to be addressed by Clause 13(1)(e) which says: “Provided that a person providing the information shall not be liable if at the time of providing the information that person, in writing, objected to providing such information on grounds that the information may incriminate him or her.” Is this a way of trying to protect people who have done wrong? Perhaps, he may address himself to that when he is responding. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, again I would like to encourage that under (f) of the same clause, we define what “state entity” and “state organ“ are. Under the clause on definitions, they are not defined and when you are dealing with the national and county governments, when you are not very clear about definitions, those will be causes of conflict. We know that this Parliament was brought to a standstill because we were not able to define the issue of consultation. So, if you are not able to define what “state entity” or “state organ” is, we will also be brought to a standstill and this would be 47 counties against one national government. So, we need to be very clear about that! I also want to speak about Cause 15(2)(f) and I think it is a very good standard to provide that in managing the national government’s public finances, the national treasury shall enforce the following fiscal responsibility principles: “a reasonable degree of predictability with respect to the level of tax rates and tax bases shall be maintained”. You know that all hon. Members were caught off guard on the issue of taxes. Then we were set up against the public when it was not the fault of hon. Members that they were not being taxed. So, this makes it very clear so that when the next Parliament comes in, this is very clear. But that is not the only point. I, personally, have been a victim where, out of the blue, I get a bill from Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) – and I am not the only one – other than the one that they are asking from Parliament. I am given another bill of Kshs3 million that I owe KRA. So, I am wondering what other private income I have other than this. We have to be clear what I am being taxed about. So, that is why it is very important that we are very clear. I am not a rich woman; I am a very ordinary Kenyan and so, we have to be very clear when you are taxing me; what you are taxing me over."
}