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{
"id": 275233,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/275233/?format=api",
"text_counter": 251,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Orengo",
"speaker_title": "The Minister for Lands",
"speaker": {
"id": 129,
"legal_name": "Aggrey James Orengo",
"slug": "james-orengo"
},
"content": "Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, Part Four deals with community land but only to the effect that it contemplates that particular legislation which will be coming in the fullness of time. That is the Community Lands Bill. Then there are the provisions that relate to the administration and management of private land. Those are found in Part Five and I do not want to go through them because really it is a question of rationalizing what is in place and ensuring that the systems of land administration that existed under the various Statutes are harmonized and made to cohere and in a manner that is user-friendly. My last shot on this, because I said I did not want to take a lot of time, but I think I have taken sufficient time is; I hope that in this new dispensation in relation to land, and particularly public land, the interest of the people will always prevail. Where the rights of an individual cannot be rationalized as against the public interest, the paramount interest should be that of the public. That is the spirit of the Constitution. The classification of land as envisaged in Article 65 is that all land in Kenya belongs to the people of Kenya collectively as a nation, as communities and as individuals. A simple reading of that statement is that the people of Kenya have a radical title and interest to own land in Kenya. To that effect I hope that the abuses of the years past in relation to land will be a thing of the past when we pass this legislation. With the coming up of the county governments, I hope the land courts in dealing with disputes in relation to land will have a more effective and efficient and not just expedient but a process that will not delay justice in any manner or form. We appeal to the courts, as I speak now, that we have had a history where a lot of public land was taken away from public institutions by characters who were not using that land for any good but merely to make extra money which again if you go to the bottom was used really to create fear and despondency in the politics of the land. The court should not fear but subject to Article 40 which gives the right to property which is recognized but looking at the overriding interest of the public, there should be consideration. We have had a very bad history where, for example, my learned friend who will second this Bill--- and I want to congratulate him for being appointed the Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs and I think he will be up to the task in many ways--- Already my being with him at various levels underscores this. Therefore, I am delighted that he is seconding this not only with his capability but also because he is the Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs. Like in his constituency where somebody took a public institution; a hospital and turned it into a private property, there cannot be any excuse in law or in equity to try and reason out that that person was holding a title and, therefore, you cannot interfere or take away that land from that particular individual. I believe that for Kenya to move ahead and to make sense in this new dispensation there may be a need to decisively deal with the injustices of the past, both to communities and to the people of Kenya. In the court trying to administer justice in accordance with the Constitution and the law, this broad consideration should be at play. This is because right now, we are having conflicting judgments on whether or not in the spirit of the Constitution we can recover public land or not. There are conflicting jurisdictions. But on the face of it, some of these lands that were acquired in instances and areas that you cannot even sit and wait, but in the name of the people of Kenya for whom we act decisive action needs to be taken under those circumstances. Now that we are going to have community land, and I invite Mr. ole Ntimama to have a sit-in through when we hold workshops and deliberations on community land because I think it should be known to the people of this country that most of the land in Kenya will become, by dint of this Constitution, community land. Nearly 80 per cent of the Kenyan land territory will be community land. How they are dealt with and administered, the community land law which I do not want to anticipate debate on will be very important. What I am saying is that in our system of courts, if those community interests are not recognized not just in terms of whether the law is there, but in terms of what is moral, ethical and just. If they were to take those into consideration, then my friends who have suffered from these injustices in Coast Province, in the Maa community--- Even without this basic law, just in the name of morality and justice, and when that justice is being pleaded with fountains of justice within the houses of justice which are the law courts, the arguments of communities who were dispossessed by oppression and colonialism should have been determined even without the use of these laws that we are trying to legislate. That is if they went before courts or went before governments that were committed in righting these historical injustices. I want to say that in some instances although people have thrown words at me where I found that communities have been disadvantaged--- These are the Bajuni, the people at the Coast, the Maa community and communities in the Rift Valley which include the Kalenjin community and even the Kikuyu community. Some people forget that the displacements were not necessarily at the Coast and in the Rift Valley. Even in the Central Province there were displacements that if, for example, you had a more decisive action you will not have those colonial villages that you see in Limuru or in Nyeri. Those should have been things of the past whether it was the law or not just on the simple invocation of ideas, requisites of justice and equity. I think those are the problems that we have to deal with, yet they remain questions that are still looming large even as we enact this Land Bill."
}