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"id": 29050,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/29050/?format=api",
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Orengo",
"speaker_title": "The Minister for Lands",
"speaker": {
"id": 129,
"legal_name": "Aggrey James Orengo",
"slug": "james-orengo"
},
"content": " Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want, first of all, to congratulate the Minister for working very hard with his team to bring, not just this Bill, but several other Bills. This is a lot of work that has been carried by the Minister. Indeed, this is an important legislation. I was asking myself. Has the Minister succeeded in transforming this police force from a colonial police force, because I think that legacy remained with us, into a new police force that can serve the second Republic of Kenya? This is because after the promulgation of the Constitution we, indeed, have a new Republic. You will remember during the colonial times, it was our own native sons and daughters that were deployed by the colonial police to carry out police operations. They were kept under a discipline that they had to obey orders. A lot of police misconduct and misbehavior is from that history and legacy that they had to carry out orders, however illegal and unconstitutional they were. I am happy to say that reading through this Bill generally, and I want to congratulate the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security, that lo and behold! You have done a great job in transforming the Police Force into a truly civilian Police Force which is accountable to the people. One of the things that happened during the colonial days was that police officers had no rights. However, instead of lamenting about what the police have done to me, I am happy, as a starting point, that we have a Police Force where their rights under this Bill are clearly spelt out. The police will be well looked after. The Bill says that they cannot be members of trade unions. However, they can have police service associations in which their grievances can be heard. This, together with the fact that we are improving their terms and conditions of service, can greatly contribute towards transforming the Police Force in the manner that we require. The other important thing that the Minister should look into – and I know he is looking into it – is how to ensure that the police have the ways and means of carrying out their duties and functions. The important thing that even you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, have been subject to arrest and detention in police stations--- The schedules here are very important. They can form part of the Bill and we need to look at them. However, before I get there, I must say that hon. Otichillo was right in saying that the definition of torture as contained in this Bill is not correct. That is because under the Constitution, freedom against torture cannot be limited. It is one of the freedoms that the Constitution says cannot be limited. Even the right to life cannot be limited. So, I think hon. Minister, you need to look at that and make sure that it comes in tandem with the Constitution. Our police officers must know that when they arrest and detain anybody under this Bill, there are conditions spelt out on how and in what circumstances you can detain. If you detain anybody, that person has certain rights which are spelt out. One of them is to communicate with their members of the family and to receive visits. They should also have a right to have members of their family be informed of their arrest. This is critical, having been one of the persons who, at one time, was locked up for two weeks without access to family or lawyer. That is now clearly spelt out and I think the Minister has done a good job. In the Sixth Schedule, conditions of using force are clearly spelt out. The circumstances under which a police officer can use force is now not a matter for debate. It is there in the law. The conditions to use firearms are also clearly spelt out. We cannot have conditions like the ones we had during the post-election violence where the use of ammunition and firearms was a matter that was left to individual police officers. Now, they are accountable under this new law which sets out very clearly when they can do that. I wanted to persuade the hon. Member who was talking about the County Police Authority. Even at the local level, we must have a police service which is alive to the interests and rights of the communities. In fact, in other jurisdictions, you have autonomous police services in every region, state and county. We had to look for a balance and see how we can have a Police Force that is accountable to the people at the grassroots and also has a national command. Recently, when I was I complaining to a policeman in my area, even with the position I hold in Government, he told me: “I am not answerable to you. I am only answerable to the OCPD.” It was a situation where members of the public were there. I was being embarrassed and I had a genuine complaint. He told me that if I had a problem, he cannot talk to me. I could talk to the OCPD. When I went to see the OCPD, he also told me that he needed to see a man in Kisumu. Now, this new arrangement gives some level of accountability to the Police Force on the ground because security issues cannot just be left with somebody in Nairobi. Security problems exist and the people on the ground know how to deal with them and they can, indeed, help the police. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, now, from the day the President will put his signature on this Act, I will be a very happy man because many times, I have been arrested and tortured by policemen. I remember in Kisii where I was being paraded in front of market women and there was nothing I could do. They were holding me by my trousers at the back and I was frog-marched from the bus park to the police station. By the time I got there, I really had no clothes to talk about. So, I think with this Act, I will now be very supportive of the Police Force. Secondly, I plead on their behalf that they should get all they need to make sure that we have the security that we need; vehicles, forensic instruments and so on. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir."
}