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    "id": 294265,
    "url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/294265/?format=api",
    "text_counter": 572,
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    "content": "even counties before they undertake some of these loans extraterritorial, that is, beyond the Government, we need sovereign guarantors. The problem in South Sudan, for example, at the moment, is that the Southern Sudanese State which has the same powers, if they try to go and get a loan from Germany, their sovereign guarantee is not respected. So neither the state government nor the national government can get these loans. In the final analysis, it is the Treasury that must make sure that there is sovereign guarantee. I think that is the management they were saying but when it comes to the counties being able to do this, the Senate shall guarantee them. I am speaking this as a prospective senator for Kisumu County. So I am also very conscious of that. Secondly on that, I want to make a few clarifications to my dear friend, Mr. Mbadi, so that when we come to amendments, we do not put the Minister for Finance in unnecessary jeopardy. I am just saying this so that we are all together. He had some misgivings about 12(2)(c) which says “The National Treasury shall have, in addition to the functions- co-ordinate the preparation of annual appropriation accounts and other statutory financial reports by the national government and its entities”. Surely, if, indeed, the counties are going to present their appropriation proposals to the Senate and so on, someone has to co-ordinate at the national level. Even the Budget Committee of Parliament is going to call the Cabinet Secretary in charge of finance to question him about the proposals of the Government about these things; he really must get the materials from somewhere. So I am wondering why he is uncomfortable coordinating the preparation of annual appropriation accounts. But you see the Government must see that these things are there and it is the duty of the Budget Committee of Parliament to interrogate - just as I was the Chairman of the Public Investments Committee (PIC), the audited accounts of the parastatals came to me as the Chairman of my Committee and I had to question these people but in the presence of the Auditor-General Corporations and to ask him: “How did you arrive at this, can you explain?” So, Parliament through the Public Investments Committee was holding the Government to account as an oversight body. If we think that somebody else is going to co-ordinate this, I do not think the Budget Committee can do it. They do not have the technocracy or the technology or the organizational capacity nor is it their responsibility constitutionally. Let us be a little bit sober about these proposals because I do not think they are meant to usurp the powers of Parliament or the Budget Committee. They are meant to enforce and make the work of the Budget Committee easier, so that the materials that you need to interrogate are prepared by somebody who has the means and the resources to do so, and the information. These things require a lot of information. After Clause 17(6) that my friend raised, I will stop because the others follow"
}