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{
    "id": 510424,
    "url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/510424/?format=api",
    "text_counter": 229,
    "type": "speech",
    "speaker_name": "Hon. (Prof.) Nyikal",
    "speaker_title": "",
    "speaker": {
        "id": 434,
        "legal_name": "James Nyikal",
        "slug": "james-nyikal"
    },
    "content": "country and making citizens of this country suffer by denying them the services that they would otherwise have. On this issue of confidential expenditure, even when I was in the Government, I really had issues with it. I always felt that however confidential it is, there must be a way of trying to verify what the money was used for. I am happy today because hon. Ng’ongo has said that there are certificates that the Cabinet Secretary should sign to verify that the expenditure actually took place. We should strengthen that. We are human beings. To say that circumstances are these, that people can use money without being questioned, it cannot work. As a House, all these regulations or laws are made and we should look at this area of confidential expenditure. We should relook at the laws and find a way of making people account for them while maintaining the security that the country needs. I know now that there is a certain fixed amount of money that a Ministry can withdraw in cash in a day. This was clearly exceeded in this case, which eventually totaled up to Kshs2 billion. I have been saying here a number of times that Kshs1 billion is a lot of money. If it serves the country, that is okay. But if the explanation is not adequate as it appears here, then we need to do something about it. More importantly, the officer who seems to have been singled out and was named is still in service. It is not even the senior officer that we are talking about, but even the accountant who seemed to have been involved is still in the Ministry and efforts to transfer that officer have failed. That, in itself, the fact that you cannot transfer an officer who was involved in a thing like that, raises a lot of questions as to the validity of whatever explanation is being given. We cannot go on as a country like that. We are told about 300 houses that were bought at the same rate. There is something in Government that we always must realize, when you are doing bulk purchase, you cannot purchase at the same rate. Somebody who is buying 300 houses at ago cannot be asked to pay exactly the same amount as one person who is buying a house with all the procedures being repeated. But I know again these are situations where you find people saying pesa ya Serikali. We must realize that our people need these monies, our country needs them and our sick people in hospitals need them. That is something we should look at. If we talk of a stalled project that had 80 per cent of the construction money paid, there are procedures. I cannot understand why the Committee did not bring out what the problem was, and who is liable because there are clear procedures of how you pay for projects. At every stage, you get a certificate and then you pay. At the next stage, you get a certificate and you pay. How do you get to pay up to 80 per cent even before the work starts? We would have expected the people involved to be named and taken to court. The court may find that they were innocent but to leave it at that, that there is no explanation, really we cannot do that. Remember in other countries - I have said this before - there is a certain level of corruption that if you are found guilty, you are executed. We may start thinking in that direction. On the issue of Anglo Leasing, it comes up again and again. I was surprised to see that there are issues that are pending; there are payments that, perhaps, should be coming towards the Anglo Leasing issue. Not long ago, we approved some payment because we lost a case. We wanted to do the Sovereign Bond and we were told that, that had sorted out the matter. Once again, the issue is still coming up. I have heard of KenRen matter from the time I was a medical student. This is still going on and Kenyans are still paying. I think we are really not serious at all. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, many things have been said but let me say something about the Integrated Financial Management Information Systems (IFMIS). It is important, as the Committee recommended, that all accountants and officers are conversant with IFMIS. IFMIS is The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
}