Entry Instance

HTTP 200 OK
Allow: GET, PUT, PATCH, DELETE, HEAD, OPTIONS
Content-Type: application/json
Vary: Accept

{
    "id": 558622,
    "url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/558622/?format=api",
    "text_counter": 252,
    "type": "speech",
    "speaker_name": "Hon. Ogalo",
    "speaker_title": "",
    "speaker": {
        "id": 2679,
        "legal_name": "George Oner Ogalo",
        "slug": "george-oner-ogalo"
    },
    "content": "Thank you. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I sat in the sub-committee with Hon Kihagi and, for the benefit of the Members, from Page 10 of this Report to the upper part of Page 13, our sub- committee went into details of the documents one by one. Land transactions and registration of land is a chronological thing. You cannot just jump and create interest. Interest gets created and transferred at the beginning when land is allocated. For this one, we are clear it was allocated in 1919. Then, that interest can be sub-divided, transferred or sold. We have looked at all those transactions leading to the transfer of those interests. As the Chairman has said, up to 1978, both the documents given by Muchanga Investments, through court, and Telesource Limited, through the Ministry, bear similar entries. It was after 1978 that the real issue of this land comes out. There is absolutely no connection that we could establish, even from the documents presented by Muchanga Investments, between Arnold Bradley and Mchanga Investments. There is absolutely no connection. When we made observation No.4 on Page 13, we did so on the basis of whether out of all the documents that we could gather, there was any iota of information connecting the last known owner, Arnold Bradley, and any of the two claimants. In the sub- committee, we saw correspondence and consent documents for transfer between Arnold Bradley and John Mugo Kamau. We saw that. We have not seen a corresponding document of that nature between Muchanga Investments and Arnold Bradley. This is the crux of the matter. If we solve that, then this matter of Karen land will be over. The reason we are making the recommendation is because we want to authenticate that consent document between Arnold Bradley and John Kamau. We want to authenticate the Kshs32 million paid to Barclays Bank by John Kamau. Then we want to authenticate the transfer from John Kamau to Telesource Limited. We also want to authenticate the documents of sub-division and transfer that took place after Telesource Company took this property. This is where we want the Criminal Investigation Department (CID) and the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC) to come in; most importantly, we want the CID to authenticate the documents. If those documents are authenticated, then this Committee will have made a very clear recommendation on who the owner is. It is because we could not authenticate the veracity of those documents that we said, “Please, verify.” I do want to agree with the Vice-Chair of our Committee. There was no time when the Cabinet Secretary for Lands refused to bring us documents. It is not fair for the Vice-Chair of our Committee to come to the House and claim that the Cabinet Secretary refused to bring some documents. He was not part of the sub- committee. Indeed, he was not there when the documents were required. The Cabinet Secretary appeared countless times with documents, and we were modifying the list as we were going on with investigations. I want to exonerate the Cabinet Secretary on the issue of bringing documents to our Committee. Our sub-committee received all the documents from the Ministry of Lands, Housing and Urban Development that we could rely on. What was not there could not be brought. If it was not there, it could not be brought. We noted that these are the gaps that must be filled by the CID and the EACC. They are very clear. The Committee has done its best with the resources available to us and you cannot expect us to extract blood from a stone, as the Speaker said. We only drew conclusions on the documents which were presented to this Committee. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
}