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{
"id": 58785,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/58785/?format=api",
"text_counter": 146,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Orengo",
"speaker_title": "The Minister for Lands",
"speaker": {
"id": 129,
"legal_name": "Aggrey James Orengo",
"slug": "james-orengo"
},
"content": " Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is not a fair point of order. I can allow him to have his day in Parliament, but that will not change the facts that I am putting before you. More importantly, I am trying to say that when you do a land transaction, please, be careful and carry out due diligence because somebody may give you legal currency, but what he is actually giving you may not be legal currency. So, you have to be conscious of that. Hon. Imanyara asked about the steps that are being taken. A lot of the revocations that we are doing, we are not just doing them randomly. They are cases which have been investigated by the KACC. In fact, they regularly are sending lists of properties that they have investigated and asking us to revoke or take some action like placing a caveat against the titles. But if a criminal act was committed, then it is upon the KACC, the police or the Attorney-Generalâs chambers to deal with the matter. All the time, we are working in consonance, particularly with the KACC, to make sure that if there is a criminal act, then they can take the necessary steps. But from our part, if we find that, indeed, land was unlawfully acquired, then we take the necessary action as contemplated under the Constitution. Hon. Twaha has brought up a very interesting case. You find that a lot of public land that was available up to 1963 was not interfered with. This is the great amazement that I have that up to 1963, you will never find that a public institution has given out a health centre like the health centre at Highridge. But after Independence, the Agricultural Development Corporation (ADC) farms, prisons land and in Kitale a whole public hospital was given to private individuals. A lot of times, this is given without giving the full value for it. The second issue that I want to react to in relation to what hon. Twaha has said is that when carrying out this exercise, we do not just look at the Government Lands Act. For example, the Water Act has got certain limitations about what you can acquire or not acquire over water masses or water sources. The National Environment Management and the Survey Acts have very clear provisions. I know that the hon. Member has a problem in Lamu, which is being addressed, but he knows why we exactly took that particular action. The Member for Ainamoi says that these transactions are carried out by my officers working in my Ministry. Well, I have to say that the fact that a document has been in the hands of a member of staff in my Ministry does not legitimize that legal instrument. It is just like saying that if I sign your cheque and if the signature is similar to yours, that can be a legitimate cheque. It must be done properly. They must follow the procedure that is required. A Land Registrar has a responsibility which he or she must carry out in accordance with the law. As far as the Kisumu Molasses Plant is concerned, there is a case in court in which the current director of the KACC was acting for the Kisumu Molasses. The facts are that the Kenya Government had a business transaction between the proprietors of the Kisumu Molasses Factory and the Treasury. Those documents are available for anybody to inspect. So, the question of illegal acquisition does not arise, whatsoever. But if you can show and give me reasons to believe that, that is so, I would take the necessary steps and I do not fear anybody in carrying out my responsibilities. I think that deals with all the questions."
}