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{
    "id": 624546,
    "url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/624546/?format=api",
    "text_counter": 233,
    "type": "speech",
    "speaker_name": "Hon. Mulu",
    "speaker_title": "",
    "speaker": {
        "id": 1955,
        "legal_name": "Benson Makali Mulu",
        "slug": "benson-makali-mulu"
    },
    "content": "Under Clause 32, the Senate proposes that we increase the penalty from Kshs1 million to Kshs10 million. The Committee has not supported that amendment. I look at this from two perspectives. The first perspective is that a very low penalty of Kshs1 million would encourage people to commit that mistake and say they could always pay. A very high penalty of Kshs10 million will bar people from doing what is supposed to be done and that could open the gates for corruption. People may say that since the penalty is very high, they would rather be corrupt and pay a bribe for them to get out of that particular problem. Even as they reject the Kshs10 million penalty, the Committee would have been fair to Kenyans by agreeing on a middle-ground of Kshs5 million so that it is not too low to encourage people to commit crimes since they can pay the penalty, or too high to open doors for bribery. The Kshs10 million fine is quite high and Kshs1 million is too low. I would be more comfortable with a figure of about Kshs5 million. The other area is the issue of participation of the civil society in this Council. I support the Committee’s observation. In this country, those doing a lot of work and more so, at the grassroots relating to climate change and providing leadership in this area are the civil society rather than government organisations. It would be unfair to lock this important stakeholder out of the whole process. At the same time, you realise that these civil society bodies have qualified people in terms of expertise. These people can help make serious contributions on matters to do with climate change. I support the Committee on that observation that the civil society should be included. On the matter of the Senate being involved in vetting, I am a bit concerned. This Bill was passed by the National Assembly in March, last year. After that, it was forwarded to the Senate for debate. It came back to the National Assembly in December. That took an average of nine months. I support the observation to leave out the Senate in the vetting process. If that is the amount of time we will take to sort out matters between the two Houses, then we would rather minimise situations where the two Houses are involved. I support leaving out the Senate in the vetting of the Council members. With those few remarks, I support the Committee’s observations. I wish that the penalty was brought down to Kshs5 million instead of Kshs10 million."
}