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{
    "id": 691110,
    "url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/691110/?format=api",
    "text_counter": 178,
    "type": "speech",
    "speaker_name": "Hon. Ogolla",
    "speaker_title": "",
    "speaker": {
        "id": 1264,
        "legal_name": "Gideon Ochanda Ogolla",
        "slug": "gideon-ochanda-ogolla"
    },
    "content": "I had indicated that the discretion is really yours, even if it is not mentioned. It is also not very easy to know what one is going to say. You cannot know whether they are going to dissent or not. But I want to support the Report based on a number of things. One, it is a clear indication that in the process of making international laws to be part of ours, this is a good indicator that the treaties are going to be treated as part of our laws. It is important that we look at them that way. That is one thing that this seek-for-approval is fulfilling. Two, is the issue of what has been going on over a period of time. In my elementary geography, we discussed factors that lead to the growth of towns. We listed many things, including crossroads and stuff like that. One that was very unique is how the military has contributed to the growth of certain towns in this country. One such town is Gilgil, Nanyuki and partly Isiolo. We were learning this in Class V or VI, I think. The military was contributing to the coming up of certain towns in the country. There are some of those unique things. Kenya exports very unique products. We export our climate and scenery in terms of the geographies and the physical features we have. In that sense, we export the conducive environment that the British military is looking out for, for purposes of training. So, it is a unique arrangement and export. If all of us were able to look at it in that manner, those are some of these things we are able to overcome. While that is so, we also need to be reminded of the principle of reciprocity in international relations. It is so critical that when activities and exercises like that are extended to us, they are fairly unique. We need to reciprocate in a manner that we also value our relations with the others. When we are looking at this, it is important we do not look at certain isolated cases. Many of us are trying to look at some of the very isolated case. They are important. We have had atrocities and injustices. We have had this issue of the rebate in terms of how monies or funds that are paid, and what happens to other countries. Those are some of the things that can be negotiated and looked out very keenly, in my view. The kind of disputes and problems that we have heard from the local communities, I wanted to suggest one or two things. One, if we are able to demarcate and locate the boundaries within which those trainings are supposed to take place, and the extent at which the British military are to use in terms of the geography such that we reduce the conflict between what we are calling “the leftovers” with the local communities, it will be good. If it is very clearly indicated that this is the extent at which, in terms of geography, the military will reach and where the community starts henceforth, we could create some kind of a buffer zone between those activity areas and the communities. In that sense, the other bit will be to engage the local community with some information that this is the extent at which you can go because those are dangerous areas. There is quite a bit of information and education that is required. In my view, this needs to be by both our Kenyan Government and the British Government in terms of sharing and giving out information to the local communities. Sometimes, when you look at encroachment, you will not know who is encroaching on whose areas. You will not know whether the military is encroaching into the local community’s areas or whether it is the local communities that are encroaching into the training grounds. So, there needs to be a clear demarcation of those boundaries. There needs to be indicators like: “You are now crossing on a dangerous area or into an area that is not yours.” We also need to look at what is it that is making the local communities encroach. Immediately, we realise that it could be issues of water, pasture or any other thing. We could do very creative The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
}