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"id": 720989,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/720989/?format=api",
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Kang’ata",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 1826,
"legal_name": "Irungu Kang'ata",
"slug": "irungu-kangata"
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"content": "If at all America has been unable to ensure that torture does not occur in its shores and has an extrajudicial facility based in Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, then, that suggests to a certain extent that, maybe, torture may work to a little extent. Even the elected President of the USA, Donald Trump, said that waterboarding may work as he has been advised by some of his advisers. Therefore, we must also ask ourselves if we were to torture criminals like drug barons and terrorists a little bit, maybe we could have a positive outcome. I would not want us to become very lenient with people who are doing very bad things like selling drugs to our children and bombing them. When we capture them and take them to court, they go and apply for bail pending trial and go home to continue harassing witnesses. There are some situations which our law cannot remedy. For instance, the task of eradicating the Sabaot Land Defence Force, which was a very vicious militia, by just capturing them and taking them to court, they would intimidate witnesses and go back home. I would not want a situation where we make a provision which is going to make our law enforcement agencies ineffective. Therefore, this Bill must make a provision which will give our police some little bit of leeway. For instance, they should not show mercy to criminals. In the Philippines, there was a mayor called Duterte. He told his people to elect him because he was going to kill all drug barons and once he was elected, he did exactly that. Nowadays, no one is doing drugs in the Philippines. A country like Singapore has very strong anti-drugs laws, even Indonesia. The other day, I saw President Widodo saying that he has killed drug barons. I would not want this law to be used to make some of our laws lenient and allow terrorists and drug barons to get a free hand to do bad things in this country. I want us to have a strong police force that can face some of the challenges that we have in this country. Let us not use this law to soften some of our laws. However, I am not supporting the torture of political prisoners. I am not supporting the torture of people who hold a different set of opinions. I do not want the Nyayo Torture Chambers to return to this country. I am referring to known criminals; people who do bad things. These are people who kill our babies and those who think that prison is a holiday camp. Prison is not a holiday camp. Such characters who may hide information from the police--- If at all the USA is doing the same, we should not use this law to gag our police and army. Be that as it may, I also realise that we have expanded the role of the KNCHR. Why is it that we did not amend the law which founded the KNCHR and expanded its role instead of having a stand-alone legal Act? It appears that this law is a form of duplication. We could have just gone to the law establishing that Commission and added any other function instead of having a stand-alone piece of legislation. As I summarise, I urge the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security, headed by Hon. Kamama, to look at this law, consult security experts and pose this question to them: Will this law compromise your ability to combat crime in this country? If they say that it will not, I am okay. But if they say that it may fetter our country, I support a strong Government that handles crime and ensures our people are safe notwithstanding what the people in the civil society say out there. Without security, we cannot have any other right. Security is the first primary duty of any state. At times, in ensuring security for the people, you may step on some few toes here and there which is too bad. I would not support stepping on anyone’s toes negatively, but on the other hand, if by doing that we secure our people, why not? I ask for this Bill to be committed to the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security for consultation with security experts. Otherwise, we may be like the story we were told in primary school where the hyena and the hare once decided to beat up their mothers. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
}