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{
    "id": 94888,
    "url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/94888/?format=api",
    "text_counter": 120,
    "type": "speech",
    "speaker_name": "Mr. Mungatana",
    "speaker_title": "",
    "speaker": {
        "id": 185,
        "legal_name": "Danson Buya Mungatana",
        "slug": "danson-mungatana"
    },
    "content": "Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion. I just want to make two fundamental points. Kenya is not the first country that has gone through constitutional change in a successful and peaceful manner. The Republic of South Africa during the adoption of the new constitution, there were negotiations between the party that was led by the then leader of National Party, President De Klerk, and the then to become President Mandela. Everything was done and the new constitution was supposed to be passed, but then the Members of Parliament from the old Parliament that were going to leave wanted to know what was going to happen to their gratuities, pension, terms and conditions of service and how they were to relate with the new parliament. It was a very big issue. In fact, the then members of the party of De Klerk were very adamant and members of the other side were also very adamant. What broke the stalemate was negotiations. These negotiations involved Mandela himself and De Klerk himself. They had to leave out the emissaries who were negotiating so that they could resolve the question that was causing the stalemate between the parliament that was in transition and the parliament that was supposed to take over. When the Joint Chief Whip moves a Motion before this House and asks for time so that negotiations can be done so that some reasonable agreements can be reached, negotiations is the way to go because history has shown us that indeed negotiations is the way that saved the final lap of the making of the constitution in the Republic of South Africa. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the second point I want to support in this Motion is that of the legalities around this whole question of emoluments. This Motion is actually grounded on Section 48 of the existing Constitution. If you look at Section 48, it states very clearly; “Except upon the recommendation of the President” signified by a Minister, the National Assembly shall not, proceed upon a Bill---“, that is we cannot discuss any Bill or anything that has the effect of imposing taxes or charge on the Consolidated Fund or withdrawal from the Consolidated Fund or composition or remission of a debt due to the Government of Kenya. That is under Section 48 (a). That concerns a Bill. Section 48 (b) states that the National Assembly shall not proceed upon a Motion (including an amendment to a Motion), the effect of which, in the opinion of the person presiding, would make provisions for any of those purposes; that is the purposes I have already stated out. So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, in fact, seriously speaking, there should not have been a proceeding of the earlier Motion if the intention or the effect would have been to bring any of those four issues that I have laid out before as outlined in the Constitution. Therefore, in order for us to make things proper, under the current Constitution, even the Report which we adopted in this House cannot be discussed if the effect is a charge on the Consolidated Fund without the consent of the President, without the recommendation of the President as signified by a Minister. In effect, I want to ask my colleagues to see that we have no other way around this Motion but to support it because whatever negotiations that must go on, they must be grounded on the law, the current Constitution and in my opinion, even the initial Motion should have had the approval or the recommendations of the President as signified by the Minister in this House. Otherwise we should not in fact have proceeded with the debate. Mr. Speaker, Sir, now that, that is a past event, what is pending is a question of the Bills that must be brought before this House. The correct thing to do is for this House to give the Minister time to do his consultation with the President and then when he receives the correct recommendation, the correct approvals, then he can bring the necessary Bills that shall be supported or opposed on the Floor of the House. So with those two points, I want to urge my colleagues to see to it that this Motion is passed without much debate because it is actually a constitutional issue. We need to do things correctly. We need actually to get the President’s approval before any debate can proceed on the Floor of this House. In fact, the Constitution does not give us any choice and I would urge my hon. colleagues that this is the way to go, this is a harmless Motion, this is a constitutional thing, we need to do it properly so that we get a resolution that is backed by the Constitution as we know it. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would very strongly urge that we pass this Motion as moved by hon. Midiwo without much debate. With those few remarks, I beg to support."
}