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{
    "id": 950271,
    "url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/950271/?format=api",
    "text_counter": 162,
    "type": "speech",
    "speaker_name": "Kiminini, FORD-K",
    "speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr.) Chris Wamalwa",
    "speaker": {
        "id": 1889,
        "legal_name": "Chrisantus Wamalwa Wakhungu",
        "slug": "chrisantus-wamalwa-wakhungu"
    },
    "content": " Thank you Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity. First and foremost, I salute Hon. Nyoro for this Bill. Research has shown that 30 per cent of the Budget in this country goes down the drain through corruption. When you look at the entire process, this is where I am asking myself whether the problem is with the stiffness of penalties. Where is the problem when it comes to the fight against corruption? We have laws that govern the fight against corruption. They are very good laws. The problem has been in investigation. How I had wished that the law was touching more on matters of investigation. We have seen His Excellency the President lamenting in many quarters that the problem has been with investigation. I think the investigative arm has been doing a shoddy job. We have seen the Chief Justice (CJ) saying that a matter coming before them in court is based on evidence. Who brings the evidence? It is the investigators. If the investigation does not bring evidence, there is no way the people can be convicted. That is where the problem has been. How I wish an empirical study had been done based on the laws and how many people have been convicted. If you amend based on penalties, the rule of the thumb says that, maybe, convictions have been there, yes, but people have found Kshs1 million to be so little that they have been paying and getting out. That has not been the case. When we talk of 10 years, that somebody should not be convicted for less than 10 years, it beats logic. How many people have been convicted for 10 years? We have not seen this in an empirical study. Suppose somebody has stolen Kshs1,000, should he be convicted for 10 years? Should he be given a fine of not more than Kshs1 million? I do not think the problem is with the penalties. There are three arms of the Government. The Legislature enacts laws. Parliament has put laws in place. When you amend a law, it is said that the shoe wearer knows where it pinches. Maybe a law is in place, and out of empirical study, it shows that the penalty was so lenient and was not stiff enough. That is not the case. We have not seen people get convicted in this country. Why? This is because of poor investigations. The fight against corruption has been operationalised. It has been institutionalised. That is where the problem is. Maybe we need to change the culture of this country. I was at the academy of anti-corruption for a two-week training, and I wanted to exchange money. In China, FOREX bureaus cannot be done by any commercial bank. You must The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
}