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{
    "id": 950272,
    "url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/950272/?format=api",
    "text_counter": 163,
    "type": "speech",
    "speaker_name": "Kiminini, FORD-K",
    "speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr.) Chris Wamalwa",
    "speaker": {
        "id": 1889,
        "legal_name": "Chrisantus Wamalwa Wakhungu",
        "slug": "chrisantus-wamalwa-wakhungu"
    },
    "content": "go to the equivalent of the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK). Then, one gentleman helped me by showing me the direction. As a Kenyan, after he has done some good work for me, I offered him USD10 but he said: “No, I cannot take it”. In the fight against corruption, we must start with the change of culture. When you go to a hotel nowadays, and a waiter serves you, they want kitukidogo. This culture is coming even to this Parliament. At times when you are in our dining, you are served and people want kitu kidogo. We must look at the institutions. Corruption is institutionalised. I had a female Member of Parliament complaining that she went to the restaurant and she was not served tea. Why? It was because she has not been giving kitu kidogo. So, when we talk of corruption, it is not just an issue of penalties. It is a culture that we must fight against. The issue of toa kitu kidogo is now everywhere. There is a song by Erick Wainaina that talks about Nchi ya Kitu Kidogo. This toa kitu kidogo is where the problem is. The fight against corruption has more to do with culture. It is not about penalties. That is what we should look at. Why are investigators doing shoddy work? When you appear before a court, the magistrate or the judge will make a determination based on the evidence that is before him. If the evidence is weak, then the case is lost. We should remember that corrupt people also get lawyers to defend them. That is a fundamental right in the Bill of rights. The accused shall also be represented in court. So, we must look at the entire process and establish where the problem is. Corruption is a big problem in this country. Thirty per cent of our budget goes down the drain because of corruption. How should we look at it? Is it an issue of leadership? The leadership must be at the forefront in the fight against corruption. We have seen a lot of corruption cases on big projects. A project like the Galana-Kulalu is supposed to help this country to be food secure. The leadership is on the frontline advocating for corruption. Two weeks ago, I visited the Galana-Kulalu Project and the cost has been exaggerated four to five times. That is the corruption I am talking about. It is coming from the leadership. The culture of this county is more of the problem than the issue of penalties. If you want to get a birth certificate in Government offices, nothing will be done unless you have signed something. Therefore, the problem is with our culture. How will we change that culture? If we change it, courts will have little to do. They will determine the issue of penalties. That is where there is a big problem. We agree that, indeed, corruption is a big problem in this country. When Lee Kuan Yew took over Singapore, he changed the culture of that country. You will agree with me that he came up with a housing project. So, we need to do more on culture change and not on penalties. On investigations, there is also a problem. We are calling upon the EACC to act. We changed its leadership. The Chief Executive officer is Major Twalib Mbarak. We want to see how much he has done. We were told that as far as asset recovery is concerned, they have done much. However, when it comes to investigations, the people who are doing it need to be trained more instead of having talks without action. If an investigation is done well and the evidence presented in court, there will not be a problem. We need an empirical study to tell us how many people have been convicted. In this country, we have enough laws that can govern and help us to fight against corruption. There is the issue of enforcement. Where is the problem? However, I know the problem is culture. Recently, the President closed shop for the Kimwarer Dam Project. We were told that the project is not viable and the cost was exaggerated. Who did the exaggeration? It is people in leadership who did it. That is where the problem is. It is not with “wanjiku” down there. “Wanjiku” does not do the costing. When the National Youth Service was supplying pens, a pen worth kshs10 would cost Kshs1,000. That is where corruption is. It is institutionalised. For us to fight corruption, we must look for ways of de-institutionalising it. It has already been The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
}