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"id": 1559992,
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"speaker": null,
"content": "(Question proposed)"
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"id": 1559993,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Omboko Milemba",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
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"legal_name": "Jeremiah Omboko Milemba",
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"content": " The first Member on my list is Hon. Wilberforce Oundo."
},
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"id": 1559994,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Ojiambo Oundo",
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"content": "(Funyula, ODM). Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker for allowing me to support the Treaty-Making and Ratification (Amendment) (No.2) Bill, (National Assembly Bill No.9 of 2024). Let me, speak from two points of view. I sat in the Committee on Delegated Legislation in the 12th Parliament. The saddest moment was when we had to annul regulations simply because there was no form of parliamentary participation in the process. I have also sat in the Departmental Committee on Trade, Industry and Co-operatives, and I have been involved in the ratification of several treaties, notably with the European Union and another by UAE, which is ongoing. A few issues, as my colleagues have pointed out, have come out very clear. One of them is the opaque way of negotiating, signing the treaties and then dumping them in Parliament, while telling Members to ratify them. We have had no role to play at all but to ratify the treaties as they are. I am happy that the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs under the good leadership of Sir. George has found it wise to bring these amendments so that there is The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
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"id": 1559995,
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"text_counter": 986,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Ojiambo Oundo",
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"content": "some semblance of the National Assembly participation in the treaty-making process. I say so in recognition to the statement by Hon. Millie Odhiambo. She indicated as it is written in the Constitution that, all treaties that are ratified by Kenya should become part and parcel of the laws of this country. Indeed, in the Constitution, the only body that is authorised to make laws is the National Assembly. The Senate just participates. For example, when you go to play a football match, there is a cheering squad. So, the Senate is like a cheering squad. Occasionally, the county assemblies make laws, but those are localized laws. The only body that can make laws for the country which bind everybody is the National Assembly. I have some points of concern. One, this elaborate mechanism for participation by the National Assembly is only restricted to economic-related treaties. Therefore, the country can proceed and enter into treaties that legalise deviant social activities like the lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans-gender and queer (LGBTQ). I imagined this Bill would have opened all forms of treaties. So, our country will continue to enter into treaties like establishing military bases that insulate the military from foreign countries who harass, kill and maim ordinary wananchi like the case in Laikipia. We could also get into a situation where after the country signs treaties, the ‘Jonnies’ are allowed to impregnate our women under no subjective paternity test and are not held liable for the child protection. This is a source of worry. I hope that during the public participation on the Bill, the Committee received such concerns. When we get to the Committee of the whole House, we will have a chance to review that matter critically. Clause 4 seeks to amend Clause 5 by including Clause 5a. This is a checklist of the issues to be checked and considered. The procedures are fairly elaborate but, at times, they can be cumbersome or onerous. This is the price we have to pay to ensure that whatever we legislate and approve in this country, has very clear provisions on the interests of Kenyans. I have two other concerns. If you may allow me, without interfering with my timing, I want the Chairman, at the appropriate time, to come out clearly on what is negotiation, execution of the treaty and ratification. In my understanding - and that brings me to Clause 9 - ratification is done by the National Assembly. I need to be guided and educated. I do not understand why the Leader of the Majority Party or the Minority Party forming the Government has to accompany the Cabinet Secretary in ratifying the treaty. I thought that Parliament ratifies. That is the reason why the Bill is about treaty-making and ratification. This is something we need to understand clearly. At the point of the Cabinet Secretary informing the National Assembly, they have already commenced the process of negotiating a treaty. Then, next is the issue of regulatory impact assessment. Inevitably, it will follow with some element of public participation. I am not so sure whether this is good use of public resources because when the treaty comes to Parliament, it will still be subjected to public participation. I need to be guided whether the Public Participation Bill that we attempted to discuss here was finally enacted. It set the threshold, modalities and process of public participation so that we can lift the views of the people, synthesise the same and clearly inform without wasting more public resources. Clause 7 of the Bill seeks to amend Section 8 of the Principal Act by deleting subsection (5) and substituting therefor the following new subsections— “(5) the National Assembly may introduce any reservations as a provision into a treaty. (5A) Where the National Assembly introduces a reservation under this section, the Clerk of the National Assembly shall indicate, in writing, to the relevant Cabinet Secretary the specific clause or clauses of a treaty for which the National Assembly proposes to make reservations and shall specify the reasons for which the reservations are made.” In the Bill before us, there seems to be nothing compelling the Cabinet Secretary to ensure the reservations of the National Assembly are incorporated before the negotiations are completed and the treaty is signed. We should seek an amendment to make it compulsory. The The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
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"id": 1559996,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Ojiambo Oundo",
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"content": "National Assembly represents the people. We presume the Act on behalf of the people and, consequently, whatever recommendations we make must be carried. This brings me to another similar issue, “that might be considered” does not make it mandatory. Clause 6B in page 293 states: (6) The responsible Cabinet Secretary shall ensure that – (a) all comments or submissions are considered before an economic treaty is made.” The word “considered” does not mean it is mandatory, unless in legal terms it is different from the typical English word. One can simply say, “I will consider but I am not duty- bound to include the recommendations”. Also, one can consider and disregard by saying: “What you asked me to consider, I did so but did not find any merit in it. Hence, I disregarded and proceeded to sign”. The danger is once a treaty is signed… Most could be multilateral treaties involving very many countries and different organisations. So, even if the National Assembly makes reservations, it will be very difficult to implement them within the given time. This will be a big issue. So, Hon. Temporary Speaker..."
},
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"id": 1559997,
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"speaker": null,
"content": "(Hon. (Dr) Ojiambo Oundo spoke off the record)"
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{
"id": 1559998,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1559998/?format=api",
"text_counter": 989,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Omboko Milemba",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 13328,
"legal_name": "Jeremiah Omboko Milemba",
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"content": " You have had your bite. You indicated that you support the Bill. Let us have the next speaker, Hon. Mary Emaase."
},
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"id": 1559999,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Teso South, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Mary Emaase",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this Bill. From the onset, I support the Treaty-making and Ratification (Amendment) (No.2) Bill, 2024. It is very timely and important. Firstly, it gives Parliament the opportunity to represent and protect the people of Kenya by allowing the National Assembly to scrutinise a treaty before it is approved. We know that all treaties that are signed have some ramifications. They have multifaceted impacts, economically and politically. Echoing what Hon. Oundo has said, sometimes, some agreed- upon treaties have some political implications that can mess up the relationship between nations. This Bill is important because Parliament will have an opportunity to look at the objectives. Do we need this as a country? Will the passing of this treaty increase trade? Will it help the country access new markets? Will it increase investment flow into the country or shall it have other effects in terms of curtailing other policies and laws that directly impact the economy and affect taxes? Clause 5 (a) gives Parliament the opportunity to scrutinise treaties before they are approved. At the same time, the clause recommends timelines within which the House needs to be notified for any changes to be made to any treaty. Clause 5 (a) (ii) provides for seven days within which notification for such a change should be brought to the National Assembly. The other good thing about this Bill is that it gives room for consultations between the National Assembly and the Cabinet Secretary. This is for Parliament to register its reservations. This is further addressed in clause 7 where we can give our reservations as Parliament, with reasons. The Cabinet Secretary must also give an annual report of the status of all treaties. Hon. Temporary Speaker, this is a good Bill and I support."
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Omboko Milemba",
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"id": 13328,
"legal_name": "Jeremiah Omboko Milemba",
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"content": " Very well. Next is Hon. Mishi Mboko."
},
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"id": 1560001,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1560001/?format=api",
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Likoni, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Mishi Mboko",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Ahsante sana, Mhe. Spika wa Muda. Naunga mkono Mswada huu unaozungumzia kutengenezwa na kudhibitishwa kwa mikataba ya kiulimwengu. Kama tunavyofahamu, taifa letu lina sheria zinazotokana na sheria mama ya Katiba yetu. Pia, tunazo sheria ambazo zimetokana na mikataba ya kiulimwengu ambapo nchi yetu The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
}
]
}