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{
"id": 881,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/881/?format=api",
"text_counter": 386,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Farah",
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"speaker": {
"id": 16,
"legal_name": "Farah Maalim Mohamed",
"slug": "farah-maalim"
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"content": "Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am thoroughly shocked. What the repeal of this law intends to achieve is to eliminate impunity. For somebody to insist that we maintain in our books; our statutes, a law that contravenes, not only our Constitution, but every other shred or vein of Constitution in any civilized environment. We are in a situation right now in the world in which the prison warders in the Auswich and who worked in Germany at the time of the Nazi Holocaust, those of them who are living are brought to book today. There is no statute of limitation on criminal liability. What we are looking for are not genuine Kenyans who are fighting the force who are from the other side who are also armed. We are looking for the criminals who perpetuated Wagalla, Malkamali, Walkatasi, all those genocides and massacres and some of them enjoying high profile positions in the Government today as I speak. When we are trying to deal with impunity, seeking to reform this country and to leave behind a legacy and our President, His Excellency, hon. Mwai Kibaki, wants to leave a legacy behind, I would plead with my good friend, the Professor of law, who was one of those people whom we thought were going to uphold the fact that impunity should always be punished regardless of how long it takes, even posthumously, to advise the President that this cannot work in this day and era. It is a different dawn in this country and it is not constitutional."
},
{
"id": 882,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/882/?format=api",
"text_counter": 387,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Imanyara",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Deputy Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 22,
"legal_name": "Gitobu Imanyara",
"slug": "gitobu-imanyara"
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"content": " Order! Order! It is not the Attorney-General’s President. It is our President."
},
{
"id": 883,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/883/?format=api",
"text_counter": 388,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Farah",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 16,
"legal_name": "Farah Maalim Mohamed",
"slug": "farah-maalim"
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"content": "Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I agree with you but as the Attorney-General, he is the legal advisor to the Executive and the Executive is demonstrated, exemplified and overseen by the President. It is because of that, that I am telling him to not only accept what he has been told but to also advise the President and tell him what is constitutional and what is unconstitutional. We cannot keep this law in our books. It has to be repealed. You can even be taken to the International Criminal Court on the same, because there are no statutes of limitation in criminal liability. So, this is unconstitutional and, therefore, the matter should proceed. The Act is unconstitutional and it has been repealed as far as this House is concerned."
},
{
"id": 884,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/884/?format=api",
"text_counter": 389,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Prof. Muigai",
"speaker_title": "The Attorney-General",
"speaker": {
"id": 408,
"legal_name": "Githu Muigai",
"slug": "githu-muigai"
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"content": " Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me make one thing very clear because I may have been quoted out of context, and I want this to go on record. My own understanding of the instructions from the His Excellency the President is that His Excellency the President, in person and his entire Government, are committed to the rule of law. We are committed to the enforcement of the Constitution that we waited for so long to get. His Excellency the President recognises that Parliament enacted this legislation on 14th April, 2010. The President understands perfectly well the reasons for which this particular statute was enacted. What His Excellency the President has sought to do, and what I think unhappily now we are not able to do in the context in which we are debating this, is that the substance of the amendment is not now available to the House from me. We are discussing the procedural issue of whether it should or it should not be laid on the Table of the House; but in the same debate, hon. Members are contributing on the substance without an opportunity, on my part, to lay the ground; this I was going to do substantively, as to why, in the opinion of the President, as advised by our then Attorney- General, my worthy predecessor, the hon. Amos Wako, on 26th August; he sought to persuade Parliament that there should be an amendment. The decision as to whether that amendment is a good or not is a matter of debate, and if this House determines that it has rejected the proposed amendment by the President, both the President and the Government will comply with the law as made by this House. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Farah Maalim, who is one of my oldest friends and a very distinguished Member of this House, has alluded to a comparison to international criminal offences, to Nazi offences and so on. I want to say with respect that that is a slight exaggeration of what we are dealing with here. Kenya engaged with the"
},
{
"id": 885,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/885/?format=api",
"text_counter": 390,
"type": "scene",
"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Shifta"
},
{
"id": 886,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/886/?format=api",
"text_counter": 391,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Prof. Muigai",
"speaker_title": "The Attorney-General",
"speaker": {
"id": 408,
"legal_name": "Githu Muigai",
"slug": "githu-muigai"
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"content": "in a legitimate war that was voted upon by this House. We sent men for six years to be engaged in the war. In those days, there were not many women in uniform. I want to remind my colleagues, with tremendous respect, that this is a self-succeeding House. Parliament never changes. Members of Parliament may change but Parliament remains the same. When the Shifta War came to an end, in its wisdom, Parliament decided that it required an Indemnity Act for those persons who had served in that war, and who had acted within the law. Parliament then said that that indemnity did not cover acts in bad faith and outside the purview of the interest of public safety or public order or the maintenance of the public interest. If there was an officer who looted resources in that part of the world during that engagement, this law does not cloth him from prosecution or otherwise. If any person molested another citizen during that war, he does not enjoy immunity, but the men and women who wore the uniforms of the Kenya Armed Forces---"
},
{
"id": 887,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/887/?format=api",
"text_counter": 392,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Imanyara",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Deputy Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 22,
"legal_name": "Gitobu Imanyara",
"slug": "gitobu-imanyara"
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"content": " Hon. Members, let us bring this matter to an end. These are procedural issues."
},
{
"id": 888,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/888/?format=api",
"text_counter": 393,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Prof. Muigai",
"speaker_title": "The Attorney-General",
"speaker": {
"id": 408,
"legal_name": "Githu Muigai",
"slug": "githu-muigai"
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"content": " Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to rest my case by suggesting that it was not a flippant or frivolous amendment that the President sought. As Head of State, he sought to find a legitimate accommodation between the expectations of this House about this law and the expectations of our new Constitution and our moral, political and legal obligations to the men and women who served to defend this country in a very serious engagement. Thank you."
},
{
"id": 889,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/889/?format=api",
"text_counter": 394,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Imanyara",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Deputy Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 22,
"legal_name": "Gitobu Imanyara",
"slug": "gitobu-imanyara"
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"content": " Order! Order! I have heard the arguments from the hon. Members who raised very valid concerns. I have also heard the Attorney-General’s response. I am convinced that this Order is inadmissible. I shall communicate the reasons in a considered communication from the Chair. As of now, the Chair is convinced that this order, as drawn, is inadmissible."
},
{
"id": 890,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/890/?format=api",
"text_counter": 395,
"type": "scene",
"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Committee Stage of the Indemnity (Repeal) Bill deferred)"
}
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