Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to present a petition on behalf of IDPs who were affected in 1992 and 1997 and have been waiting for a long time for resettlement and compensation. The Government has already undertaken that by 30th December, this year, it will have completed the resettlement and compensation of the IDPs affected in the post election violence of 2008. It is our prayer that this will be done and that our fellow Kenyans affected will not spend a night in the cold this Christmas. However, for the IDPs affected earlier than 2008, the Government has, time and again, indicated plans to resettle them but this has not been effected to date. I have with me a petition signed by 4,388 Kenyans affected and who are praying that the Government, after completion of resettlement of the 2008 IDPs, will then commence the resettlement and compensation of the 1992 and 1997 IDPs. These are families that have been affected. They have been displaced for a period of close to 18 years. These families have been broken due to problems of lack of settlement and have fallen into crime and prostitution. They are praying that after the resettlement of the recent IDPs, they too will be remembered, resettled and compensated. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I beg to present this petition and lay it on the Table.
I direct that the Petition be referred to the Select Committee on IDPs.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Am I in order to seek the guidance of the Chair as to whether we should not have a few comments in support of the Petition in line with the provisions of the Standing Orders?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to support the Petition and thank Mr. Wamalwa for that timely Petition. It is true that we have IDPs dating back to 1992. However, because of the magnitude of the politics that surrounded the IDPs of 2007 and 2008, those of 1992 and 1997 have tended to be forgotten. It is important that this House
Fair enough! Under the circumstances, as I had initially indicated, I refer the Petition to the newly established Parliamentary Select Committee on IDPs. Dr. Khalwale, do you want to present a Petition?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not want to present a Petition, but I would like to use this moment to request the Chair to remember that I brought a Petition to this House on Kiborowa squatters and the Chair referred it to the relevant Departmental Committee. It is now six months overdue from the time you directed that they bring the Report to the House. GOVERNMENT GRANT TO PYRETHRUM BOARD OF KENYA
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to present a Petition on grant by the Government of Republic of Kenya to the Pyrethrum Board of Kenya (PBK). We, the undersigned 300 farmers located in the Rift Valley, Central and Nyanza provinces that depend on pyrethrum for livelihood, draw the attention of the House to the following. Whereas the pyrethrum industry was liberalized in 1997 exposing the PBK to unfair competition; whereas the Board was not cushioned from this unfair completion; coupled with mismanagement at the Board leading to inability to pay pyrethrum farmers for debts amounting to millions of shillings; whereas the farmers have been impoverished leaving them with no means of livelihood leading to abject poverty; whereas pyrethrum prices and demand continue to rise yet farmers cannot plant pyrethrum due to old debts owed by the PBK; recognizing the opportunity to support the farmers and the economy of this country; in this humble Petition pray that the Government of the Republic of Kenya urgently considers addressing the financial and operational problems facing the pyrethrum industry including payment for flower deliveries and farmers arrears for delivered crop to the PBK and take specific measures like injection of working capital and acquisition of a new extraction plant for the Board in order to rejuvenate the industry and improve the economic welfare of the pyrethrum farmers; and petitioners will ever pray. While presenting this Petition, I would like to say that millions of Kenyans depended on this pyrethrum. It is a foreign currency earning crop. It has brought foreign exchange in the country. It is because of mismanagement that the poor farmers in the provinces I mentioned above, that the Government has not given money to the PBK. This Petition requests the Government to inject about Kshs1.2 billion to this industry so that this Board could pay the farmers.
There being no hon. Member who wants to contribute on the same, I direct that the Petition be referred to the Ministry of Agriculture. PAPERS The following Papers were laid on the Table:- Report of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security on its fact-finding visit to Lari, Koibatek, Dagoretti, Kisauni and Nyakach over alleged extra-judicial killings in the district from 11th October, 2010 to 27th November, 2010.
Report of the Select Committee on Equal Opportunity on the Recruitment of the Managing Director of Kenya Bureau of Standards (KEBS)
Report of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs on Nominees to the Judicial Service Commission.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security on its fact-finding visit to Lari, Koibatek, Dagoretti, Kisauni, and Nyakach over alleged extra-judicial killings in the districts from 11th October, 2010 to 27th November, 2010 laid on the Table today, Thursday 16th December, 2010. ADOPTION OF REPORT ON RECRUITMENT OF KEBS MANAGING DIRECTOR
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Select Committee on Equal Opportunity on the Recruitment of the Managing Director of Kenya Bureau of Standards (KEBS) laid on the Table today, Thursday 16th December, 2010.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, this House adopts the report of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs on nominees to the Judicial Service Commission laid on the Table of the House on Thursday, 16th December, 2010. REGULATION OF BODA BODA SECTOR
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, being greatly concerned by the rising cases of accidents involving motorcycles popularly known as Boda Boda, being further aware of the fact that this fast growing sector that is providing affordable motorized and non- motorized means of transport to many Kenyans today all over the country; appreciating the role the sector is playing in contributing to our economy and in providing employment to many unemployed young Kenyans and conscious of the problems and challenges facing this sector, this House urges the Government to urgently provide a policy and legal framework to regulate this fast growing and vital sector of our society and to set up a Boda Boda Fund to provide funds to facilitate training and empowerment of these young Kenyans.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Why did the Laikipia East District Commissioner, accompanied by over 400 Administration Police officers, invade Eland Down Farm on 23rd November 2010, burn houses and evict over 300 families in disregard of court orders issued by the High Court at Nyeri on 22nd November, 2010? (b) Could the Minister explain the circumstances under which 18-month-old Baby Lekamario, was burnt during the illegal operation and why did Police Officers deny the Kenya Red Cross and Human Rights Officers entry to the farm to assist victims with medication? (c) Could the Minister withdraw the Administration Police Officers stationed at the disputed land, in order to avoid further harassment of the people, pending determination of the matter by the High Court?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will recall I had already
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Chair recalls that I had submitted a certified copy of the original summons from the High Court. This matter was deferred because the Minister was not here. Since I have submitted all the required documents to show these were genuine court order summons, would I be in order to appeal to the Assistant Minister through the Chair to withdraw the police officers in the farm to enable my people enjoy their Christmas holidays without any problem?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I indicated that the information I have on the ground is that we do not have police officers in the farm. However, if there are police officers within the farm, I will order them to be withdrawn immediately. However, we have police officers around the farm, who are doing their daily patrols to keep law and order. If it is true that the police officers are within the farm, I will instruct the Police Commissioner to withdraw them.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have two Order Papers. I do not know which one to follow.
Order! Stick to the original Order Paper. The tradition is that you will be directed when to shift to the Supplementary Order Paper. For now, use the ordinary Order Paper, which is there. One is Supplementary and the other one is an Order Paper for the day. We are now on the original Order Paper. Once I am through with the Questions, we will then shift to the Supplementary Order Paper.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You will remember that the Question by the hon. Member has been on this Floor for the past three weeks. Probably, this is the third or fourth time, it is appearing on the Order Paper. However, the hon. Assistant Minister continues to give the same answer to the Member. Does the Ministry not have any compassion at all on the people of Samburu? He keeps saying: “If the police officers are there, if the police officers are harassing, I will do something.” Has he not found out what is happening for the last three weeks? This is carelessness on the part of the Ministry. It is callous. The police officers are harassing innocent Kenyans. We are even aware that an 18-month-old baby was burnt in the process. However, he is still taking it lightly. This is really unfair.
Mr. Ruto, you did not have the benefit of being here yesterday, when the Leader of Government Business attempted to address the House on this. At that time, the picture of the 18-month-old baby who was burnt was brought here. This matter has been coming back and forth. My recollection is that when you are asked, you say: “If they are there”. Have you not found out whether they are there? Why always, “if”?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am, in fact, a very serious Assistant Minister in regard to answering Questions that relate to matters of this nature. On Tuesday, it was not our fault. It was the fault of the Clerks-At-the Table who should have advised the Chair what was remaining on the Question. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Chair ordered that when the summons were given, there was no rubber stamp to show the authenticity of that order. The Questioner came up with an original summon and I also asked if the Questioner is having the original
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Assistant Minister should not take us back. I said that the first summons was served from 22nd and they were to expire on 24th. It is for the same reasons that on 23rd, even before the expiry of the court orders, the police moved in and evicted those pastoralists. It is for the same reasons that lawyers went back to the High Court and were given court order on 25th. That was when they served the Provincial Administration and the AP Commandant. I have tabled the certified copies from the High Court. The Assistant Minister should not take us back. All that we are requesting is whether he can be kind. Kenyan police should not mistreat other Kenyans. They should withdraw from the farms; after all, the court orders are still alive.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Member was asked to bring a certified order, which I even think was too much, because once the Assistant Minister knows there is an order, service does not have to be proved because this Parliament. Is it in order for the Assistant Minister to continue arguing instead of apologizing to the House and undertaking to withdraw the police officers from that farm? If the House cannot compel him to respect the law, then who will protect Kenyans against those who are disobeying the law in Government?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, generally, if there is a Question, we normally check from the ground on what is happening. You can see the mood. It is as if it is me who does not want to act. I have checked with the District Commissioner (DC), who told me that there are no police officers inside the farm. I want to undertake that if, indeed, there are police officers in the farm, heads will roll. The police who are---
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have a lot of respect for this Assistant Minister, but he is gambling with the lives of Kenyans. When we request Ministers to do something, the burden of proof is not on us. It is for him to use all the Government machinery at his disposal, to confirm that the police are on site and have them removed. That is what this House expects of this Assistant Minister, and not “if” and “if”.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Ethuro is right. I am on record having said that according to the reports I have, there are no police officers within that farm. That is why I am saying that if, indeed, it is true that police officers are inside the farm---
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the Assistant Minister in order to focus on procedure when the Constitution, which is superior states that every person has a right to life and that life must be protected by the Government? An 18-month old child was burnt, and the Assistant Minister is telling us “If” and “When”. The life of a child is not dependent on “if” and “when”. What are you doing to protect the right to lives of other children?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I sympathise with the Member of Parliament for Samburu East, because this is the same Government which
Order! Order! The Chair, indeed, takes a very serious view of this issue. This issue has been in the House for a good number of times. It is important that we respect the lives of Kenyans. It is also important that the Government does not engage itself in endless technicalities. The Chair directs that the relevant Departmental Committee, which is headed by none other than the Member of Parliament for Mount Elgon, moves with speed to investigate the issue and reports back to the House the soonest possible. Next Question! LACK OF ELECTRICITY SUPPLY TO NYAKACH WATER SUPPLY
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Water and Irrigation the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Is the Minister aware that electricity to Nyakach Water Supply was disconnected almost a month ago due to an outstanding electricity bill of Kshs.2,000,000.00, leaving residents of Nyakach without clean water for domestic use, thereby rendering them vulnerable to cholera and other water-borne diseases? (b) When will the Ministry offset the bill? (c) Could the Minister also consider disbanding the Board of the Nyakach Water Supply Company for failing to effectively discharge its mandate?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am aware that electricity connection to Nyakach Water Supply was disconnected on 18th November, 2010 and re-connected on 4th December, 2010 after intervention from my Ministry. (b) My Ministry has paid Kshs1.9 million out of the outstanding electricity bill of Kshs2.4 million, and the Kenya Power and Lighting Company re-connected the electricity. (c) My Ministry will not disband the Board of Nyakach Water Company, which manages Nyakach Water Supply. Under the Water Act, 2002, the company was appointed by the Lake Victoria South Water Services Board to ensure efficient and economical provision of water services. The appointment was for five years, from 2007- 2012. However, due to high cost of operation and maintenance, the company has difficulties in meeting the costs of operation from the revenue generated. My Ministry, through the Lake Victoria South Water Services Board, will cluster the company together with others in the country to minimise the costs of operation and maximise the economies of scale, thus ensuring sustainability.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has mentioned that they have paid Kshs1.9 million. Could I know from him when this amount was paid, and whether he can provide proof that a payment of Kshs1.9 million has been made?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Nyakach Water Supply has two accounts. The first one is No. 640253, and was paid Kshs500,000. The other one is No. 640254, and it was paid Kshs1.4 million. The balance as of today is only Kshs500,000. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is worth mentioning that the hon. Member wrote a letter to the Minister. We had a meeting together with the Permanent Secretary, and we decided to pay the money immediately. It was only after paying the Kshs1.9 million that electricity was re-connected. The hon. Member can confirm that electricity has already been re-connected, and that the people of Nyakach are now receiving water.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Electricity was actually re-connected because of my personal intervention. Could the Assistant Minister provide proof that payment has actually been made? That is what I want to see here.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have the details of payment with me here, which I hereby table.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, under the Water Act, 2002, the Ministry is empowered to engage private companies to supply water to specific areas, but this is one area through which the Ministry is practising corruption. There are several small companies, like the one in question, which are not able to provide services. Although these are private companies, taxpayers’ money is used to supplement their services. There is another company in Kisumu called “Gulf Water Services Company”. Why is the Ministry using taxpayers’ money to off-set the costs incurred by private companies they have contracted?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the genesis of Nyakach Water Supply is that they have two levels of pumping water. That is why they have high electricity costs and the customers are not able to meet the cost from the revenue they receive. We have a long-term plan for this area. We are undertaking to construct one Koru Dam which is under feasibility study so that water can be flowing down by gravity. Therefore, there will be no high cost of electricity and the customers will be able to pay.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has not answered my question. My question was under what circumstances did the Ministry offset the costs incurred by a private company using taxpayer’s money?
First and foremost, the Ministry of Water and Irrigation has undertaken to supply water to Kenyan people whatever the cost is and the companies that are not able to meet the costs from their revenue, the Ministry has undertaken to subsidize those areas so that Kenyans can have water supply irrespective of the revenue received by the company.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, since there is a balance of about Kshs533,000, could the Assistant Minister confirm here when they are likely to pay this amount?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the bill that we paid was for up to November. We are waiting for the bill for December which will be together with the
asked the Minister for Youth Affairs and Sports – (a) what he is doing to increase salaries for instructors at youth polytechnics and pay them according to merit, in view of current payment for different job descriptions; (b) what has caused delay in payment of salary top-ups for more than three months; and, what the Government policy on payment of terminal benefits for retired and/ or retrenched instructors is.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I already requested you for a few minutes for the answer to arrive.
Order, hon. Kabando wa Kabando! How does an Assistant Minister address the House from the Back bench? Have you resigned?
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I asked for a few minutes because we are coming from a State function and the answer was with my boss. He is on the way. I will do the job.
This is the last Question on the ordinary Order Paper for today, before we shift to the supplementary Order Paper. So, we cannot wait for long, unless you want it deferred.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg you to skip it for a while. The answer is coming.
Fair enough! We shall come back to that Question.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Assistant Minister is telling the House the answer will be coming, yet I have a copy of the answer that he is supposed to give to the House. How come that I have the answer and the Assistant Minister does not have?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is a very simple administrative Question; I can borrow the answer from him for me to do the job.
Fair enough! We will come back to the Question. Next Question, Mr. Kaino!
asked the Minister for Labour- (a) whether he could provide a list of all the Managing Trustees of the National Social Security Fund( NSSF) since 2000 and indicate the rate of investment growth for the respective periods served by each of the Managing Trustees; (b) whether he could confirm that the current Managing Trustee of the Fund was sent on compulsory leave by the Board and, if so, state why; and, (c ) what measures he is taking to streamline operations at the Fund and to guarantee its stability.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) For the year 2000/2002, the Managing Trustee was Jos Konzolo and the growth rate was from Kshs42.5 billion to Kshs40.9 billion--- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me just be in brief because I have already supplied the Member with the list, the table of the managing trustees and the growth rates. It will take a long time. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as for “b”, I am not aware of any board decision to send the current Managing Trustee on compulsory leave. However---
What is the point of order?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while I appreciate the fact that the Member who asked this Question has the answer, but I think all of us would be interested. This answer is short, because it is only about the names and the growth rate which took place during their tenure. I think he can read the entire answer.
Hon. Assistant Minister, the managing trustees are not a hundred of them. Probably, they are a handful. Could you proceed and read them?
The first Managing Trustee was Jos Konzolo. He was there from July 2000 to May 2002. The Fund posted a negative growth rate of negative Kshs3.75 billion; that is from Kshs42.5 billion to Kshs40.9 billion. The other one was Mr. Ben Mutweta. He was there from May 2002 to August 2002. During his time, the Fund recorded a negative growth rate of Kshs5.81billion; that is from Kshs40.9 billion to Kshs38.5 billion. The third Managing Trustee was Mr. Naftal Mogere as from August 2002 to February 2006. The Fund posted a growth rate of 75.46 percent; that is, it rose from Kshs38.5 billion to Kshs68 billion. The fourth trustee was Mrs. Rachael Lumbasyo. She was at the helm of the NSSSF from February 2006 to September 2008 and the Fund posted a growth rate of 20.5 percent; that is, it rose from Kshs68.8 to Kshs81.9 billion. The fifth Managing Trustee who was in an acting capacity was Mr. Albert Odero. He was there from September, 2008 to May 2009. The Fund recorded a negative growth
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have gone through the copy of the written answer supplied by the Assistant Minister very carefully and I am satisfied with it. Therefore, I have no supplementary question on this Question.
Let us move on to the next Question by Mr. Sirat!
asked the Minister for the Development of Northern Kenya and other Arid Lands:-
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. The Ministry for the Development of Northern Kenya and other Arid Lands has since inception been allocated funds as follows:- 2008/2009 – Kshs2.6 billion 2009/2010 – Kshs4.1 billion 2010/2011 – Kshs3 billion The list of projects which were undertaken in Wajir South, East, North and West are hereby tabled.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Ministry for the Development of Northern Kenya and other Arid Lands was created after the Government recognized that the region was underdeveloped. The Ministry was not created for Wajir East. Why did the Minister favour his constituency which is Wajir East? The Minister gave over Kshs110 million to Wajir East while he gave a mere Kshs30 million to Wajir South. The Minister purposely omitted three dams that he gave to his constituency, Wajir East. That is Sarman Dam - Kshs20 million, Dambas Dam - Kshs16 million and Dasheq Dam - Kshs15 million. This is in the copy of the written answer he has given me. Could the Assistant Minister tell us why there was unfair and unequal distribution of resources within Wajir County?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Ministry does not discriminate against any district within arid areas. However, there are certain criteria which are used in the identification of projects in any given district. Among the criteria used is that every project proposal has to be approved by the District Steering Groups. The projects have to be vetted to ensure only socially inclusive, economically viable and environmentally friendly interventions are implemented. All the proposed projects must be of high priority within the respective target districts in order to facilitate achievement of the highest impact with the least resources. Lastly, priority is also given to co-funding of viable micro-projects where communities are unable to raise enough funds for the completion of such projects.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has just tabled what the areas of priorities are but the question is very specific. Could he tell us how much did Wajir North, Wajir South, Wajir East and Wajir West get so that the other hon. Members can know what he is telling us, other than read out a tabled document because it might not get to everyone? Tell us exactly what is there because we want to question why the money went to that direction.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the list is very long but I will do what I can. Here is a list of projects which were undertaken through the Arid Lands Resource Management Project---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I had asked the Assistant Minister to give us the total amount of money allocated to each constituency. It is very simple. He should tell us that Wajir North got this amount and Wajir South got that amount. He should do that, other than going through the list.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think the hon. Member can do that because we have given him a copy of the written answer. This is simple arithmetic. In the 2008/2009 Financial Year, Wajir South got Kshs4.5 million while Wajir East got Kshs5.5 million---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. There is a huge cheering. Maybe, the Assistant Minister can continue after the cheering so that I can also listen to what he is telling us.
Order! There is no cheering! Proceed, Mr. Assistant Minister!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the 2008/2009 Financial Year, Wajir South got Kshs4.5 million, Wajir East - Kshs5.5 million, Wajir North - Kshs5.3 million and Wajir West got Kshs6.2 million. In the 2009/2010 Financial Year, Wajir South got -Kshs10 million, Wajir East - Kshs8 million and Wajir North - Kshs5 million. In the 2009/2010 Financial Year, we covered the educational sector. It is a long list and I will table it.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, to show that there are disparities in the allocation of resources in Wajir County, I would like to draw the attention of the Assistant Minister to the 2010/2011 Financial Year. Out of Kshs64 million allocated to Wajir County, Kshs40 million went to Wajir East where the Minister comes from while Wajir South got a meagre Kshs900,000. Is the Assistant Minister telling us that Wajir East has more problems than Wajir South? Could he explain that disparity? What does the Minister want to show the rest of the Arid and Semi-Arid Lands (ASAL) areas if that is not being selfish of him?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is not true. If we look at some of the projects in the Minister’s constituency, we will find that they are communal
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister is misleading the House. I would have been happier if the Minister, hon. Elmi, was here to answer my Question. Unfortunately, he is sick and I pray for his quick recovery. However, the Assistant Minister indicated that a proposal has been made to Orio Programme for the funding of water to be pumped from Habaswein to Wajir to facilitate the sewerage system. What would happen if that proposal is not granted, yet the Assistant Minister is already undertaking a sewerage programme worth Kshs1.5 million? How can he take the horse before the cart? He should have first obtained the funding to pump water from Habaswein to Wajir and then embark on the sewerage system.
Ask a question, please?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, would it not have been in order to have a sewerage plan in place before the works?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the feasibility study and the design of this project were done by the Ministry of Water and Irrigation. This is part of the Vision 2030 and, therefore, we are on the right course. We have to plan and after planning, we look for money. That is the procedure.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. In his answer, the Assistant Minister for Development of Northern Kenya and other Arid Lands has said that the programme is under the Vision 2030. Does that exempt the contracts for the appraisal of the Kshs1.5 million from being done transparently and practicing nepotism?
I am not sure that is a valid point of order. It is a supplementary question.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, although I am a new Member, I am not happy with the answer. I would like this Question referred to the relevant Departmental Committee.
You are fully entitled to write to the Committee requesting that they take up any issue any time. You are at liberty to do so, any time.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will do that.
asked the Minister for Lands:- (a) whether he is aware that land for Banita Settlement Scheme in Rongai was bought by the Government to settle squatters living in Makongeni Location, and if so, state the value of the 16,000 acre land; (b) whether he could explain why the Government cancelled the first survey works and commissioned another one using the same Government surveyors and also state why allotments done in 2002 were cancelled, leaving out some of the previous beneficiaries; and,
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am willing to answer this Question, but it was in the Order Paper yesterday in the morning. However, it was dropped without being communicated to us. Now, it has been put on the Order Paper again without telling us. How do we handle it?
Assistant Minister, are you able to answer the Question or do you need time to answer it?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Question was dropped because the Questioner was not there.
Order! Do you need time in order to answer this Question?
Yes, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
How much time?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, up to next week.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as much as I would want to indulge the Assistant Minister, it is very interesting that we discussed the issue with him yesterday and we have had a chance to also look at the Question today and now, he says he wants more time. He has already supplied me with an answer. He told me that he is ready to answer it. I do not know what else he is looking for.
Are you happy with the answer given to you by the Assistant Minister?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, he has given me a partial answer.
Mr. Assistant Minister, have you supplied an answer to the Member?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this answer was given yesterday, but the Member was not there to ask the Question. So, it was dropped.
Have you not supplied an answer to the Member?
Not today, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Kigen, under those circumstances, I am implored to allow the Assistant Minister time to come and answer the Question if you indulge him. He says he gave you the answer yesterday, but you were not there to ask your Question and it was dropped.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, then I can wait.
The Member is agreeable to the Question being deferred. It is deferred by a week.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the Assistant Minister in order not to answer this Question, yet he says that he has an answer? The people of Banita have been waiting all this time to get a solution to this problem.
Order, hon. Sirma! Next Question!
asked the Minister for Youth Affairs and Sports:- (a) what he is doing to increase salaries for instructors at Youth Polytechnics and pay them according to merit, in view of current payment for different job descriptions; (b) what has caused delay in payment of salary top-ups for more than three months; and, (c) what the Government policy is on payment of terminal benefits for retired and/or retrenched instructors.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank you for your patience. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a There are two categories working in the public youth polytechnics, namely; instructors employed by the Public Service Commission and instructors employed by the youth polytechnics board of governors. Limit of salaries to the instructors employed by the Public Service Commission is guided by the established Government scales and the increment of their salaries is determined from time to time by the Collective Bargaining Agreements (CBAs) between the Government and the Kenya Union of Civil Servants. Those who have served for three years in one Job Group are eligible for promotion as per their scheme of service. Currently, those instructors who have served for three years in one Job Group have been promoted. The second category consists of instructors employed by the various boards of governors, whose salaries are determined by the respective boards. To support the efforts of the boards, the Government has continued to provide top-up grants to assist the management committees to meet their obligations. However, the responsibility of remunerating instructors under this category is the responsibility of the respective boards. (b) There is no delay in the payments of top-up grants to youth polytechnics. The Government provides top-up grants to the youth polytechnics on quarterly basis. During this financial year, my Ministry has processed grants up to the month of September and is preparing for the months of October and November, 2010. (c) The payment of terminal benefits for retired and/or retrenched instructors employed by the Public Service Commission is strictly guided by the code of regulations, Section R41(r17) to (27), which provide that an officer can retire voluntarily on attaining the age of 50 and be eligible for retirement benefits or mandatory retirement on attaining the age of 60.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, while I thank the Assistant Minister for the answer he has attempted to give, I want to observe that it is known everywhere in the country that the Ministry is set out to reduce unemployment by creating jobs through training the youths through the youth polytechnics. But in the opening statement, the Assistant Minister has talked about public youth polytechnics. Could he explain why we have a public institution with two different sets of instructors who have two different ways of remuneration?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, first, I want to correct the impression that I attempted to answer the Question. I actually answered it. In addition, it is not clear from the hon. Member what sort of two categories he is talking about in the public polytechnics. The Question is not very clear because as per my understanding, there is only one category.
Mr. Assistant Minister, let him explain to you his Question. Dr. Monda, please, explain to the Assistant Minister what you want from him?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Minister has talked about public institutions being youth polytechnics. My question is; he has talked about instructors who are hired by the Public Service Commission (PSC) and those ones who are hired by management boards of the youth polytechnics and they are paid differently. So, these are public institutions. How then does a public institution get two different types of instructors with two different types of payments?
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Now it is very clear. I said that there are employees by the PSC, and this is automatic when you have employees engaged through the PSC through the normal process to work for the Government and, in this context, the youth polytechnics. But just as it happens in schools with the challenge of personnel, there is, indeed, an option for the board of governors in the respective public youth polytechnics to employ more instructors. Also, we have an ongoing recruitment of additional 2,000 instructors across the country to be assigned to various youth polytechnics, both the currently existing ones and also the newly registered ones that have been constructed by various constituencies through the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) money and even the Local Authority Transfer Fund (LATF). So, the option to employ instructors through the board of governors is actually very encouraged.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, now that we are aware that the youth polytechnics are meant to play a very big role and considering that the largest portion of our population is comprised of the youth, why can the Ministry not consider having a clear harmonized scheme of service so that these people can be engaged straightaway through the various youth polytechnics?
In fact, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is now ongoing. As hon. Members may know, we recently posted specific officials – not
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, aware of the importance of youth polytechnics and village polytechnics in Kandara Constituency, we have pumped quite some substantial amount of money from the CDF kitty in putting them up. What is the Government doing to make sure that we have instructors, because these institutions do not have instructors?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, again to repeat what I said earlier, we are taking the following steps. One, we are going to employ additional instructors for the existing polytechnics and priority is being given to polytechnics that have actually also admitted more students and, thus, have more demand for instructors. Also, to advise hon. Members that polytechnics built in their constituencies should be duly registered by the Ministry through the District Youth Officer who exists in their constituencies/districts. That will give an opportunity for those polytechnics that are lying out of the mainstream recognition by the Ministry to also be considered for additional instructors.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Assistant Minister because they are going to employ additional instructors. I would want him to assure this House that they will make deliberate efforts to post instructors to those registered youth polytechnics – like in my Constituency, Kitutu-Masaba, which does not have instructors – to ensure that those youth institutions which do not have instructors, first of all, get the instructors before the others which have instructors.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I can assure this House that fairness and justice will be done to existing youth polytechnics which have been duly registered with legitimate boards of governors and with the requisite number of students that will make the demand be met by my Ministry. It is also good to inform this House and to request hon. Members, as I answer this question, to put more focus on the youth polytechnics – not as the old village polytechnics – but as a new medium of upgrading even Form Four qualifiers with grades “d”, “c” or even “b” because for the first time, last year, we conducted an examination through the Kenya National Examinations Council (KNEC) and those who passed were more than 72 per cent from 32 youth polytechnics which did the pilot curriculum.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister indicate that there are youth polytechnics in this country which do not have even one instructor, who is a public servant of the Public Service Commission, and what he is doing to immediately address this shortcoming?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, through the Kenya Technical Training Institute here in Nairobi, we have been upgrading the skills of the instructors in the polytechnics who have not had the minimum grades so as for them to be employed by the Public Service Commission. We are engaged in an effort to upgrade the capacities of instructors in existing polytechnics so that they may have the ability to pass interviews and be employed permanently by the Government through Public Service Commission.
Hon. Members, at this point we move to the supplementary Order Paper and there are two Questions therein. Dr. Nuh.
asked the Minister of State for Special Programmes the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Could the Minister give an overview of the membership of the District Steering Groups (DSGs), specifically for Tana River District and also explain their source of funding, roles and mandate? (b) What are the respective contributions of the Government and the World Food Programme (WFP) in the Protracted Relief and Recovery Operation (PRRO), and could she also explain their respective mandates in that regard as well as the process of identifying the lead agencies? (c) Could the Minister provide the minutes of the meetings of the Tana River DSG on selection of the lead agency to undertake distribution of relief food, the details of the three entities who applied for the distribution, state why the recommendations of the DSG in the selection were disregarded and indicate what action she will take to resolve the issue?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) The Membership of District Steering Group is made up of as follows: The Chairperson is the District Commissioner. Other members are the district heads of department, local Members of Parliament and any other co-opted members. The above is
Order. How long is your answer?
It is very long. I was told to be very comprehensive in the morning.
I am asking you to summarize the last part and table it.
In conclusion, there are 27 districts which are beneficiaries of this programme, and we had issues in five districts. We have met with the Members of Parliament in those areas and it was confirmed in this House that we will repeat the exercise, so that we can see what their issues are. In the meantime, we have re-instructed the WFP to ensure that food is distributed, so that nobody goes hungry. This exercise is ongoing and we expect to finish by February. Thank you.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Minister for giving half the information as she promised this morning. I want this House to take cognizance of the well stated facts by the Minister; that the works of the DSG are, among others, to plan timely provision of relief supplies, and to make recommendations to the Ministry headquarters on organizations that qualify for appointment as lead agencies in a ranking order. Those are the words of the Minister, not my words. The reason as to why I am saying that the Minister has given half information is that the Ministry made a decision contrary to the recommendations of the DSG. I just want to table a few documents. The PS wrote to the District Commissioner, Tana River, appointing German Agro Action contrary to the award by the DSG to the Kenya Red Cross. The DSG again met and this is a letter forwarded by the DC to the PS. I want to forward---
What is your question?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me just build up the question after tabling these two documents.
From the DSG minutes I just want to quote one sentence. The DSG, after a meeting, said the award to the co-operating partner, that the German Agro Action, had its proposal only for function 21, which is EDP management and no proposal was submitted for function 22, which is secondary transport, food distribution and monitoring and evaluation, hence members felt there was little local social inclusiveness. The Minister alleges that in cases where DSGs flout the regulations of choosing a co-operating partner, then the Ministry has an overriding authority to pick another agency. Could the Minister tell the House which regulation was flouted in the case of Tana River?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Kenya Red Cross which was recommended by the District Steering Group (DSG) was overpriced. It was actually
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the fact of the matter is that this Ministry, when it comes to appointing of lead agencies, is hardly accountable and transparent. The District Steering Groups (DSGs) are given so much work to do technical evaluation of these lead agencies. However, their recommendations are hardly followed. That is the case for Marsabit District where I come from. Is this Ministry strategically biased against local grassroots based Kenyan Non-Governmental Organizations at the expense of international organizations such as the Red Cross and many others?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, unfortunately, in some of these areas, some of the Members of Parliament are actually the people behind the Non- Governmental Organizations (NGOs). One of the guidelines was that we must have no political affiliation in food distribution. So, when we do not pick your agency, it is because maybe, you, as a Member of Parliament, are behind the agency.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I think the Minister is making allegations which are very grave and serious; that the Members of Parliament are affiliated to those NGOs. The Kenya Red Cross is a local organization that was set by an Act of Parliament. So, does she want to tell this House that they did not choose the Kenya Red Cross because some of us are affiliated to the Kenya Red Cross? Could she substantiate or withdraw?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Kenya Red Cross has relatives of Members of Parliament and I am willing to substantiate that. Again, as far as I know, the mandate of the Kenya Red Cross is to deal with humanitarian issues and actually not to distribute the food that we are given by the World Food Programme (WFP).
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have a document here which is an advertisement by the WFP, purportedly recruiting staff for distribution of the food, as the Minister alleges that it is the WFP which will distribute food for the next two months. But at the end of it, the letter is supposed to be submitted to Germany Agro-Action, the same organization that they awarded, but which was overturned again by the DSG, which they said they will reconsider. Is the Minister in order to purport that the WFP is doing the distribution when in real sense, it is still Germany Agro-Action?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is for food for German Agro Action and not the WFP.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have a HANSARD copy of 12th October, where the Assistant Minister to the Minister said: “I want to report authoritatively here that those complaints have now been addressed.” But the answer the Minister is giving is that we are going to repeat the exercise. The Assistant Minister even went ahead to give a timeline in which the lead agencies would take position, which the Minister has changed. Is she in order to change positions everytime she comes to answer a similar Question?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think I am in order. I have said that we are repeating, so that you cannot come and ask me about the procurement. By 1st March, 2011, we shall have finished the exercise. CANCELLATION OF PUBLIC RALLY AT KAMUKUNJI GROUNDS, NAIROBI
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Could the Minister give reasons as to why the Police cancelled the meeting scheduled for 12th December, 2010 and organized by the hon. Eugene Wamalwa and Mr. Maina Njenga at Kamukunji grounds, Nairobi, in disregard of the Constitution? (b) Could the Minister also explain why the Government failed to provide security at the venue as required when the meeting was rescheduled on 13th December, 2010?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg the indulgence of the Chair. This Question appeared in the Order Paper this morning and hon. Shebesh was not there to ask it and then it was dropped. So, I am ambushed to see it on the Order Paper this afternoon. I would seek the indulgence of the Chair that I answer it in the next sitting.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am okay with that.
It is so directed!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to make a Statement by the Government on the ICC process. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have had the opportunity to peruse the records of yesterday’s proceedings in the House. I appreciate the interest the Members and the public at large in seeking a Government Statement on the matter regarding the ICC process. I further appreciate the anxiety, uncertainty and desire for clarity on a matter as weighty as the ICC process. The voice of the Government, therefore, needs to be heard loud and clear in these circumstances which have never before been experienced in our country. I want to state here that I have had extensive consultations with His Excellency the President on this matter and, therefore, this is the official Government position on this matter.
We will take a few clarifications!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Prime Minister. Indeed, this is what we wanted to hear yesterday. But he did not go far enough and this is where we want him to come clear on the position of the Government in terms of how we should go forward as a country. He has given us four clear options. But he has not stated
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while I appreciate the Statement by the Prime Minister, I also could not understand where the Government Statement ended and where he started making personal statements. The reference to people who opposed or may have held different views about the local tribunal cannot be part of the Government Statement today. We are entitled to express our views and we are also entitled to express different views at different times, depending on the circumstances. But in this particular case, we do not want to be misunderstood. We are asking today about the alternative local judicial mechanism; not necessary a local tribunal of The Hague. At that time, we had not promulgated the new Constitution. At the moment, we have a new Constitution that establishes an apparently much better judicial system. I think he referred to the same in his Statement. I thought he would have elaborated further on that instead of then getting into dangerous waters of trying to appear annoyed over, maybe, certain statements that may have been made. It is important that we draw a line between where the Government statement ended and where the personal statements by the Prime Minister started.
Order, Mr. M. Kilonzo!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am offering information to the Prime Minister. I want to supply information to the---
Order! Mr. M. Kilonzo, you have been in this Parliament for a long time. This is your second term, I presume. You realize that Ministers can only address the House from the Dispatch Box. If you have resigned from your position, you might as well tell us. Have you resigned as the Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs? Under the circumstances, while you are trying to move to the Front Bench, I will allow Mr. Imanyara to proceed.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I appreciate what the Prime Minister has indicated to the House and I fully share his concerns about this country’s stability and calmness. In order to facilitate that status of our calm to enable the matter to be dealt with in a manner that is consistent with what the Prime Minister has said – he has said it is a Government concern - would he, now that he has confirmed that, indeed, proceedings are alive at the ICC and that the ICC is very much part of the Kenyan judicial process in
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to thank the Prime Minister for that elaborate statement. However, I want him to clarify his sense of justice; if justice can be balanced in terms of particular numbers from each political divide. Why was it necessary that the list was reduced from ten to six? If the idea is to identify who has committed a crime, I could imagine even ten or 20 persons could come from one particular side of political divide.
Bw. Naibu Spika, ninataka thibitisho juu ya mkutano wa faragha uliofanyika kati ya Bw. Ocampo, Waziri Mkuu na mhe. Rais wa Jamhuri ya Kenya. Inadaiwa katika mkutano huo, Bw. Ocampo aliwataka Waziri Mkuu na mhe. Rais kutia sahihi mkataba kuwa hawatakuwa vizuizi au pingamizi juu ya kukamatwa na kushitakiwa katika korti la kimataifa washukiwa wakuu wa ghasia na fujo iliyokumba nchi hii baada ya uchaguzi mkuu. Je, ni ukweli Waziri Mkuu alikuwa tayari kuweka sahihi kukubaliana na mkataba huo na huko Rais akikataa kutia sahihi mkataba huo? Je, huo ni ukweli wa mambo yaliyotokea katika mkutano huo wa faragha au ni porojo?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order! Hon. Kutuny, the Right Hon. Prime Minister wants you to repeat your clarification. For God’s sake, could you put it in a language that is understandable to all? It is true that you are very good in that language, but could you put it in a language that all of us can understand. Mhe. Kutuny, uliza swali lako kwa lugha inayoeleweka.
Bw. Naibu wa Spika, nitauliza swali langu kwa lugha rahisi ili kila mtu aielewe. Je, ni ukweli kulikuwa na mkataba kati ya Bw. Ocampo, Waziri Mkuu na Rais? Je, ni ukweli mkataba huu ulishurutisha Serikali isiingilie kati wakati korti la kimataifa litawakamata washukiwa hawa sita na kuwa wao hawatakuwa vizuizi na watakuwa tayari kuwashika washukiwa hawa? Inasemekana kulikuwa na mvutano kati yenu wawili. Waziri Mkuu alikuwa tayari kutia sahihi yake katika mkataba huo lakini Rais alikataa katakata kutia sahihi na kusema sheria ifuate mkondo wake. Je, mkataba huu ulinyima Serikali mamlaka yoyote juu ya washukiwa hawa? Ninataka Waziri Mkuu athibitishe madai hayo.
Hoja ya nidhamu, Bw. Naibu Spika. Je, ni vyema kwa Mhe. Kutuny kuleta usabasi na umbea ndani ya Bunge ambao hawezi kuuthibitisha?
Order! Order! Allow the hon. Minister to respond to the clarifications that were sought.
On a point of information, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Hon. Prime Minister, do you wish to be informed by the hon. M. Kilonzo?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Proceed, hon. M. Kilonzo!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the hon. Prime Minister for his statement. I would like him to clarify to the House and the country that the option that he has given of withdrawal from the Rome Statute would nevertheless, leave the country still exposed, particularly the citizens who have been named. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to inform the Right Hon. Prime Minister that Article 2 (5) reads as follows:- “The General rules of international law shall form part of the Law of Kenya”.
This is the information for the Prime Minister. It is not for anybody else. It is up to him to use it or not. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, therefore, the fact of that matter is that a withdrawal of Kenya from the Rome Statute does not solve the problem that we have. The Germans who were prosecuted during the Nuremberg Trials, in fact, the Rome Statute had not yet been executed. In fact, the son of Tailor was arrested by the United States and he was subjected to prosecution under customary international criminal law. The Kenyans whom we may think we want to protect by withdrawing from the Rome Statute would be left without any protection under the international criminal law. That is the information to the Prime Minister.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Mungatana wanted to know the options preferred by the Government out of the four options. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Cabinet met this Monday and came out with a resolution that the Government will continue to pursue the option of a local judicial process, as started. You remember that the Cabinet approved the Bills which were brought here to the House seeking the establishment of a local tribunal. Unfortunately, they were shot down. Now, the circumstances have changed and the Cabinet took note of this and resolved that we pursue a local option, which includes setting up a local credible judicial process to deal with this matter. That is also the same question that hon. Ruto was interested in. The other one as to where the Government statement ended and personal one started, is academic. Everything that I said was said on behalf of the Government. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Imanyara wanted to know about the law of sub- judicature in this particular case. All I want to say is that as things stand right now; these people are presumed to be innocent because there is no trial that has been instituted against them. That is why I have said that they will continue to exercise their duties as officials of the Government until such time that the situation has changed. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I could not agree more with hon. Ethuro about the balancing; you take so many from the ODM and so many from the PNU to appear to be fair to both sides. That is trying to politicise what is purely a judicial process, and I do not agree with that at all. What should have been important would have been to look for the
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is very clear in the Standing Orders that you do not mix the languages. Is the Prime Minister exempted from that particular Standing Order?
Hon. Prime Minister, indeed, unless you sit down and come up again on another clarification, you cannot mix the two languages on the same clarification. So, can you proceed and complete in the language you started?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think this is an issue to which the Standing Orders Committee will have to apply itself more, because if you are asked several questions by different individuals and the language is mixed, is it in order, since you are the same person who is answering, to insist on answering in the same language? This question was asked in Kiswahili. So, I am just saying that, that is a matter which can be dealt with by the Standing Orders Committee. As you have said so, I can go on and answer in English. First, hon. Kutuny is right in certain aspects. He says that there was a meeting amongst the President, the Prime Minister and Mr. Moreno Ocampo. They were the only three in the room where the meeting took place. There was not another person. Unless walls speak, how does he know what the three people were discussing? So, that is what I call “gossip” or cheap rumours; the relationship between the ICC and the Government of Kenya is contained in an agreement which was signed between the Government and the ICC on the court’s operations in Kenya. The agreement was signed on behalf of this Government by none other than the Minister for Foreign Affairs, hon. Moses Wetangula, and the Registrar of the ICC. Those are the ones who signed that agreement. So, Mr. Moreno Ocampo could not have asked the President, or the Prime Minister, to co-operate by signing the agreement. The agreement was already signed. So, that could not have been a basis of our discussions. We were discussing much higher issues than those mundane issues.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am just asking whether you can use your discretion to allow further clarification.
Yes, you are supposed to seek clarification.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. While appreciating the Statement by the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister, I just want to ask him whether he is satisfied that all the three named persons, supposedly from the ODM side, come from the same community? I just wanted to ask him whether he is satisfied about that fact.
Jambo la nidhamu, Bw. Naibu wa Spika. Ningependa kumuuliza Waziri Mkuu afafanue jambo hili. Tukiwa hapa kama viongozi, tuna wajibu wa kuwaambia Wakenya ukweli. Jambo ambalo liko mbele yetu hivi sasa linatoa mtaharuko mkubwa sana, na limefanya Bunge hili lisiendelee na shughuli nyingine. Ningependa Waziri Mkuu afafanue kinaganaga kwamba kwa kweli jambo ambalo lilo mbele yetu lilisababishwa na uchaguzi wa mwaka 2007. Kwenye orodha ya wale watu walioweza kuhojiwa na Bw. Ocampo, hakuna hata mmoja wa vinara waliotaka uongozi wa nchi hii. Yeye, kama kiongozi, na wale viongozi wengine, wangekuwa katika msitari wa mbele na kujitolea kutoa ushahidi. Imekuwaje
I will take two more clarifications and then the Rt. Prime Minister will respond. Yes, hon. Konchella!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the clarification I would like to seek from the Prime Minister is as follows. We have had a constitutional review process in this country, and the new Constitution was promulgated on 27th August, 2010. This process will end by the year 2015, when the enabling Acts will have been enacted by this House to operationalise the new Constitution of Kenya. Therefore, to meet that threshold, this country requires proper governance. Secondly, we have the ICC process, which is supposed to handle a certain situation and manage the problems we have had because of the election that we had. We also have the national reconciliation process, which is also supposed to take place, so that the people of Kenya can come together, and so that by the time the new Constitution becomes fully operational, the people are able to live in peace and harmony. Why are we, therefore, allowing this nation to go down? We know that there is going to be a problem? We must go the way of peace. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is the national interest and the general international concern. Ours is the national interest. Our national interest is putting this country together to allow the processes to go on. If the ICC wants to come and take away anybody from Kenya, let them come after 2015, when we will have gone through all the processes we have set ourselves to. If there will be any other problem thereafter, that will be the time they should come and collect whoever they will want to get. Now, saying that people should go to the Hague when we are in the process of re-building this nation, or bringing our people together, is not advisable. In this regard, therefore, the President and the Prime Minister have a duty to tell us whether we want a nation that is together, and which can go on until the operationalisation of the new Constitution is realised, or they just want to cause havoc.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Mr. Lessonet?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to seek two clarifications from the Prime Minister.
Seek one clarification on the Prime Minister’s Statement.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just want to ask the Prime Minister the following, now that he has indicated to us that he is very clear in his mind that there is a new Constitution, which can definitely enable us to handle the situation far much better than Mr. Ocampo can do, especially in the spirit of trying to heal this nation--- I was wondering, Mr. Prime Minister, whether your Government can write to the UN Security Council to request them to defer the actions of Mr. Ocampo. I am sure that such an action is possible, so that during that period, we can activate a local process?
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am happy that the Prime Minister has been able to give this Statement. He has also confirmed to this House that he
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Keter wanted to know why only the three people who were named from the ODM side come from one community. That is a question that I would also ask because I am not the one who prepared the list. That question should be directed to Mr. Moreno Ocampo and not Raila Odinga. But it is not the communities. It is basically the individuals and I said myself that it is puzzling that somebody can come up and say; I want to be fair and, therefore, I will take three from one side and another three from this other side. Unless there is culpability because there must be culpability and that should be the guiding principle. It is not just picking up names in order to appear to be fair. That itself is an injustice. But we have time to wait and see as these things unfold. I want you to know that I am the party leader of the Orange Democratic Movement of Kenya (ODM). My deputy party leader and my chairman are there. Therefore, I am the most agonized person. If you leave the community out of it and know that I am the leader of the party and these people are members of my party, therefore, I feel it as much as you feel it. Hon. Muthama wanted to know why the candidates were not interviewed. The candidates were not choosing those who were supposed to be interviewed. It was Ocampo who chose who to interview and who not to interview because otherwise that way, you will be directing investigations and you see that investigations should be objective, free and fair. Therefore, we did not choose the Hague option. We did not invite Mr. Ocampo to come here, neither did Mr. Ocampo invite himself. Mr. Ocampo came into the picture as a result of our own failure to set up a local tribunal to deal with these issues. Mr. Ocampo even waited, he said; “ try, first, to reconsider the matter before ICC comes in.” Koffi Annan pleaded with us and told us that the ICC is not a good option for your country because once the ICC gets involved, it becomes very difficult to remove them. That is why Koffi Annan stood up---
Why do you not allow the hon. Prime Minister to conclude and then you can rise?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Koffi Annan could have handed over the envelope to ICC on 2nd February, but he did not until July. In other words, he waited for five months for us to organize ourselves. We did not. So let us blame ourselves. Hon. Konchella talked about truth, justice and reconciliation. That is what we said that we need to reconcile this society when we get the new Constitution so that we can move together as one united country. But hon. Konchella said also that we should not try the Hague option. I have just quickly checked the list of the voting, the Division that day; hon. Konchella voted for the Hague.
Have you been adversely mentioned? Are you sure you have not been mentioned? Saying that you voted for The Hague option is not adverse mentioning.
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, but I think I want to clear something here.
What is your point of order?
Yes, I voted for The Hague because we did not expect the process here--- I voted for The Hague because we believed that even our judicial process could not handle the problem. I am not talking about the withdrawal of the Hague process but postponement of the Hague process until 2015when our laws will be in order so that they can come and see whether they need to take anybody or not.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am afraid that is not in our hands because the ICC has got its own procedures. Once it is engaged, it moves in accordance with its own rules. We cannot tell them: Do not come today, come in 2015 or 2020. I have articulated in great details, the manner in which we can extricate ourselves from the ICC process without chest- thumping. I have also mentioned that it is possible for us to go to the UN Security Council and ask for a referral. Hon. Lessonet was asking about this. This is the possibility. I mentioned four different options but to follow them, it means that you have to begin the process of setting up a credible local process to deal with this matter. Otherwise, you cannot just go and say; we want you to defer this process without coming up with something solid and substantive that this is what we are doing or we have already done or give us time to do abcd. So, this is an option but it is one among others. We are exploring the option of setting up a process and then asking for a referral to our local process. Hon. Mwiru wanted to know whether there were only six names in the Waki envelope. That is a question that only Justice Waki can answer because as you remember, that list was secret and there were a lot of speculations. It was mentioned that the names of Raila Odinga, Dr. Monda, hon. Eugene Wamalwa, among others, were in it and so on. But, ultimately, Mr. Ocampo has only come with these six names and he is saying that he is leaving the rest to Kenya to deal with. So, Mr. Ocampo has said that he is only dealing with six cases but he is leaving the rest to Kenya to deal with. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me say, in conclusion, that we look at this as a journey. We have a journey and a responsibility to the people of this country. It is important that we move together as a united country and we do not try to apportion blame and throw punches left, right and centre at a time like this. It is important that this House speaks with one voice and remain sober and looks at credible alternatives that are available for us so that we can explore. We must also have the interest of our other people at heart. If we go forthwith and say that we withdraw from the International Criminal Court (ICC) and it still proceed with the cases, then where are we? Sudan is not a signatory to the ICC and yet, Mr. Al Bashir has been indicted and cannot step in any country in Europe or, the United States of America (USA). Now, remove Al Bashir and
I will take two more clarifications and that will be the end of it.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Prime Minister to continue to mislead the House that the setting up of a local tribunal is actually a Rome Statute requirement while on the preamble, paragraph 10 says:- “Emphasizing that the ICC as established under this Statute shall be complementary to national criminal jurisdictions.” It goes ahead under Article 17(3) to state as follows:- “In order to determine inability in a particular case, the courts shall consider whether due to total substantial collapse or unavailability of its national judicial system---“ We are either admitting that there is a total collapse or almost collapsing. Because of that, the state is unable to obtain the accused who are around with us or the necessary evidence which they ought to be able and testimony or otherwise unable to carry out its proceedings. There is nowhere there is a major requirement for a local tribunal. That was the business of Waki. I ask the Prime Minister to confirm whether the Government of Kenya is today telling Kenyans and the whole world that our judicial system has totally collapsed or has substantially collapsed. We want that clarified even under the new Constitution, whether this situation continues to obtain.
That is a clarification. Mr. Prime Minister, could you take another clarification, then we dispose of this matter.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity to also echo my observations. First of all, let me thank the Prime Minister for issuing this desired Statement. In addition, I urge him to give full assurance to the nation that the peace, stability and economic growth realized in the last three years would not be disrupted by the current predicament in the nation.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in answering the questions that were asked, the Prime Minister stated that the Cabinet has resolved to pursue a local judicial system. I want him to clarify whether this is mutually exclusive or it goes parallel to the ICC.
Mr. Oyongo Nyamweya, the Chair has considered you. Proceed!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am happy with what the Prime Minister has said but he has said that the Cabinet met and agreed to go for a local solution. Kenyans are anxious. Could he come up with a time frame when that can be implemented so that we can know that the Cabinet made this decision? Even the House can stay here to form a local tribunal so that this issue is resolved and the nation knows where it is going.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, to respond to Mr. Njuguna’s clarification, the President issued a Statement yesterday to say that the Government shall ensure that peace and stability is maintained in the country during this
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to seek a Ministerial Statement from the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security. In his statement, I would like him to clarify whether he is aware that Mr. James Kiarie Ng’ang’a, who was the personal driver of Mr. Ashok Rupshi Shah, the Managing Director of Abacus Limited, was petrol bombed on 10th May, 2010, along the Fourth Parklands Avenue within Nairobi area and died. He should also clarify to this House why Mr. Hiten Kumar Raja, who was a suspect in the case, has not been arraigned in court to date. He should further clarify why Nuri Akasha alias Tinta has been accorded 24 hour security while extorting money from investors, harassing and threatening them. Is this another Magaryan affair? He should also state the action he is taking against Mr. Nuri Akasha for having threatened and extorted money from one investor, a German national, Mr. Stephen. The case was reported to Nyali Police Station on 11th October, 2010, and nothing has been done since Nuri Akasha alias Tinta is said to have police escort and is deemed to be very powerful and connected to high authorities. The investor has also written to the Police Commissioner, Mr. Mathew Iteere. However, no action has been taken to date.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will check and give an elaborate Statement on Wednesday morning.
It is so directed!
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order! You have been given an undertaking on the Statement. Could you take your seat!
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order, hon. Sonko!
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I had sought a Statement from the Prime Minister on the police brutality at Kamukunji meted on hon. Wamalwa. The Prime Minister was not here, but the Vice-President and Minister for Home Affairs and the Leader of Government Business promised that the Prime Minister will issue a Statement as soon as he comes. Now he is here.
Right hon. Prime Minister, it is the recollection of the Chair that the Vice-President and Minister for Home Affairs gave an undertaking on your behalf.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we referred that issue to the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security. This is the subject of the Question by hon. Shebesh, which I hope hon. Ojode has undertaken to respond to next week.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we were told that the Prime Minister is the supervisor of all Government Ministries.
The Prime Minister attends to issues that are cross cutting in the sense that they affect two or more Ministries. Indeed, that matter is only within the docket of the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security. It is the responsibility of that Minister to give an undertaking. Hon. Ojode, could you, please, give an undertaking on the same?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Yesterday, I sought a Ministerial Statement---
Order! Can you allow the Chair to dispose of one matter at a time? Indeed, the Chair has recognized that the Ministerial Statement you sought and the Question by Private Notice by hon. Shebesh are very similar. Did the Chair give a direction on when this Question will appear on the Order Paper again? It will appear on Tuesday. Under the circumstances, the Chair will give the kind of leeway for that Question to be interrogated to the fullest to also accommodate hon. Kombo’s Statement on the same. Fair enough! ARREST OF HON. WAITITU BY POLICE
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yesterday, I sought a Ministerial Statement from the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security on the harassment and arrest of hon. Ferdinand Waititu.
Order! When you seek a Ministerial Statement and it is listed for today, you wait for the Minister to deliver it. You do not rise on a point of order.
Much obliged, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Due to the constraints of time and the fact that there is a very important substantive business before the House today, you will be allowed to deliver the one that concerns the hon. Members of this House and the rest of them will be deferred to other dates. Proceed!
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Statement that we sought was not restricted to just the question of payment. The HANSARD will bear me out. The main issue was the utilization of the emblem of the Coat of Arms. I want to draw the attention of the House to the fact that the National Flag, Emblems and Names Act, Cap 99 of the Laws of Kenya makes it very clear. Indeed, the Constitution that we passed makes it very clear under Section 9 (2) that these are national emblems that cannot be utilized in the manner in which the Assistant Minister has tabled, in fact, as advertisement for a personal statement. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there are issues there and, indeed, criminal responsibility under Section 3 of the Act. So, it is not just a question of one issue. I would want the Assistant Minister to look at it and bring a proper Statement before the House. I beg that the Statement be treated with the gravity that it requires. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
That is fair enough. That part of the Statement you sought which, in the view of the Chair, is not so urgent, will be delivered by the Assistant Minister – at the moment he is going to give an undertaking – but as far as the payments for the advertisements are concerned, the relevant documents have been tabled and the Chair is satisfied that they are authentic.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will agree with me that Amb. Muthaura is still the Chief Secretary. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will give a scenario where hon. Ojode was a Member of Parliament without being a Minister and my business card had the emblem of the crown. I know for sure that a majority of my colleagues are also using business cards which have the emblem. So, I do not think there is any big grudge on that.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, can I make progress?
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will defer the Statement on insecurity in Kericho Town for next week. I will defer the one of Martin Opiyo Ouma for next week---
Order! You do not defer; it is the Chair that defers!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Chair actually has allowed me to issue one Ministerial Statement. For purposes of those who sought the Ministerial
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I appreciate your ruling and I think hon. Ojode is abiding by your ruling. But is it really fair for this House to think of their own hon. Member as opposed to the people in Turkana who are being killed because of frequent insecurity? This insecurity has been there for three months concurrently. I think just as important as it is for hon. Members first, then we must also ensure that the citizens we represent are also factored in. I demand for my Statement because I have been seeking for it for the last one month.
Order, hon. Members! You realize that we are in unusual times. It is extra-ordinary time in the sense that we have business to transact that touches on the very foundation of our own State, including the need for us to operationalize the newly promulgated Constitution. That is the substantive business of the House. I do realize and I am as much as you are touched by the insecurity in Turkana. The Chair now will direct that you give that Statement on Tuesday without fail. Proceed now and issue the Statement on the hon. Member!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to give the following Statement. It is a short one. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on 15th, hon. Mbuvi asked for a Ministerial Statement on the manhandling and arrest of hon. Ferdinand Waititu, the Assistant Minister for Water and Irrigation by police officers on 13th December. The hon. Member sought clarification on the circumstances under which hon. Waititu was manhandled by the police and whether the manhandling sent a bad image to the public and the world. He also wanted to know the actions that will be taken against the Commissioner of Police who gave the orders to the police to manhandle the Assistant Minister. Further, he wanted to know when the police reforms will be implemented and the Inspector-General be appointed in line with the new Constitution. Finally, he wanted a clarification on whether the Government is aware that the current Commissioner of Police, Mr. Mathew Iteere, is not qualified to be an Inspector-General as per the new Constitution. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to state as follows. On 13th December, 2010, police officers under the command of OCPD, Embakasi, SSP David Rono Bunei, were providing security during the execution of a court order by auctioneers acting on behalf of Supplies and Services Ltd within Kiang’ombe Slums, which is in Langata Constituency. I have the court order here and I will table it for the hon. Member to peruse. The hon. Member for Langata Constituency is the Right Honorable Prime Minister, Raila Amolo Odinga.
No! He was!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, he was arrested and handled with the respect and dignity---
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order! Order, hon. Members! Order, hon. Waititu! Order, Dr. Nuh! Order! Allow the Assistant Minister to conclude giving the Statement!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, he was arrested with respect and dignity befitting his status!
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order, hon. Bifwoli!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, after the arrest of the hon. Member, the situation normalized and---
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order, hon. Bifwoli! You can rise on a point of order after the Assistant Minister has concluded giving the Statement. Proceed, Assistant Minister!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the situation normalized and the eviction proceeded very well. The Commissioner of Police did not at any one time order the manhandling of the hon. Assistant Minister. His arrest and subsequent incarceration was necessitated by his behaviour and acts which were in breach of the law; therefore, the Government is not contemplating any action against the Commissioner of Police.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Bifwoli, if you want to rise on a point of order you had better come to address the House from the Dispatch Box. Proceed, Mr. Bifwoli.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is the Assistant Minister in order to mislead the House by telling us when one Assistant Minister was arrested and beaten in front of Press cameras, and he says it was honourable? Is it honourable for Ministers to be beaten and manhandled in front of Press cameras? We want protection.
Mr. Bifwoli, you are out of order.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I do not know whether you noticed that when Mr. Ojode was answering our questions, he was pointing fingers at the hon. Members who were rising on points of order. Is the Assistant Minister in order to intimidate us in a manner to suggest that if we persist in our points of order, he will manhandle us as he manhandled Mr. Waititu?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I never realized that we have people who are cowards!
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I wish to table the eviction order served on the police by Mr. Mansukhlal Shantilal Patel, the Director of Supplies and Services Limited, the plaintiff in case No.3970. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as per the orders served, the eviction was supposed to be effected on one plot; that is, LR No.209/11126. Could the Assistant Minister clarify why Mr. Patel, under the supervision and assistance of the police, went ahead and demolished houses belonging to poor citizens of this nation on LR Numbers: 209/11249, 11250, 11126, 11309, 11125, 11410, 12110, 11312, 11311, 11310, 11254 and 11255. Further, could the Assistant Minister table the academic qualifications of the Commissioner of Police, Mr. Mathew Iteere.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in making his Ministerial Statement, the Assistant Minister did say that Mr. Waititu was arrested in a manner that signified his position. I saw the manner in which he was arrested. This particular Assistant Minister came to this House and tried to defend an incident where chiefs were beaten and almost castrated in Wajir North; now, he is saying that it is normal for somebody to hold an hon. Member’s trousers and put him into a Land Rover. That was an Assistant Minister. What would happen to me, a mere nominated MP if this Assistant Minister is made to answer---
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is not the first time that we have seen the manhandling of this particular Assistant Minister and the Member of Parliament for Embakasi, neither is it the first time we are seeing the manhandling of Nairobi MPs, because of having to always deal with court orders that are effected by police, and who behave as has been narrated. Could the Assistant Minister tell us, at what point will he allow MPs of Nairobi to do their work, instead of having to tackle policemen who remove women and children from their homes when the court order clearly states where to evict and where not to evict?
The last supplementary question, Mr. Mbugua.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is a trend which has been going on; if we do not ensure that whatever is happening is stopped urgently, then as Members of Parliament, will find ourselves not doing what we are mandated to do by the people. I seek your ruling on whether a Member of Parliament should be arrested by the police, or whether he should be summoned by the police to present himself at a police station. In the case of the court order which was presented to the OCPD, Embakasi--- I think that the Assistant Minister should ensure that police officers go to a seminar, so that they can learn about the new Constitution because they do not know that use of excessive force is not allowed. This particular court order talks about eviction and not demolitions. The court order was given by a magistrate’s court, and we are talking about corruption. This is corruption of the highest order! There is no way a court order for eviction can be given by a magistrate’s court.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I respect your ruling that, that be the last clarification sought, but due to the interest generated on this matter, I request that you allow more ventilation.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This case is more serious than maybe, what the Assistant Minister is thinking. Mr. Sonko has just said that---
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Minister has just referred to Mr. Sonko. Could we get a clarification as to who Mr. Sonko is in this House?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have just said “Hon. Mbuvi.”
Order! He is referring to hon. Gideon Mbuvi alias Sonko. Proceed!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the genesis of this problem surrounds what Mr. Mbuvi has said; that a court order was given for one parcel of land and the same order was used to demolish some other 12 parcels of land. I went to the site to seek an answer from the police as to why they were demolishing the other pieces of land. I do not know in which style I can talk to my constituents so that it does not appear like I am inciting them. Already, they had been incited by the police by demolishing their houses. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the trend we have in Nairobi now is that some people are taking fake court orders and using them to demolish houses belonging to poor people. That should not be allowed under the new Constitution.
Order! Order! The Chair has given you a leeway, notwithstanding the fact that you are a Minister in the same Government and the fact that Section 17 of the old Constitution which is still in force, because the Executive aspects of that are partly still in force, does indicate inter alia, “ there shall be a Cabinet consisting of the President, Vice-President and other Ministers. The functions of the Cabinet shall be to aid and advise the President in the Government. The Cabinet shall be collectively responsible to the National Assembly for all things done by or under the authority of the President, Vice-President or any other Minister in the execution of this office.” We do understand, of course, that the arrangement of the Executive has changed and the Prime Minister is there, but nonetheless, this is still in force. This means that it is only because you are the aggrieved person that you were given an opportunity to interrogate your own Government which you are a member of, but under normal practice, it should not be allowed. The Government issues should be sorted out within the Government itself. It is going to be one time off and in future, the Chair will take a very firm position on that. But nonetheless, I also want to state the National Assembly Powers and Privileges Act, which is very explicit. As far as immunity is concerned, it says: “No civil or criminal proceedings shall be instituted against any member for words spoken before, or written in a report to, the Assembly or a Committee, or by reason of any matter or thing brought by him therein by petition, Bill, resolution, Motion or otherwise.” That clearly excludes any activity of a Member of Parliament outside Parliament and the Parliamentary business. This means that you have got immunity from legal proceedings, but only to the extent of what you have done in the precincts of Parliament.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am happy that the Prime Minister is in the House and looking at the conduct of the Front Bench. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like hon. Ojode to clarify the different treatment that he has accorded to fellow Members of Parliament, in the matter of hon. Kutuny, hon. Kapondi and Dr. Machage who was an Assistant Minister. They were arrested and then charged. They actually spent a night in the police cells, while in the case of my good friend, hon. Waititu, who is an Assistant Minister--- The Minister has not referred to his colleague as an Assistant Minister. Instead, he kept referring to him as the hon. Member. Why is the Government giving preferential treatment to people who serve in the same Government? This Government seems to be very eager to enforce court orders of the rich and when the court orders are coming from the poor peasants of Samburu, as was the case this morning, they have been extremely reluctant. Could the Assistant Minister confirm if the law is applicable only to the poor and not the rich?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, part of my queries have been covered by hon. Ethuro. Are there different standards of court orders? Why would the police be so eager to enforce court orders for evictions, but when the poor peasants get a court order restraining the police from evictions, then the Assistant Minister says that the court orders are from River Road?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me respond to some of those interventions. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first and foremost, I wish to table the court order which was supposed to be enforced by the police officers.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will also remember that two hours ago, I was being roasted in this House for not enforcing the court order on Samburu. How come when my police officers are now enforcing the court order I am equally being roasted?
Order! Order, hon. Assistant Minister! The concern of the hon. Members is that you are enforcing the court order selectively. That is the area you need to address yourself to.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that particular area is a flight path. I have several other court orders which we are going to enforce to demolish those illegal structures, in order to bring sanity. I need to have the flight path free from any encumbrances. It is for our safety. It is not for anybody else. I do not want hon. Members to be bogged down simply because we have illegal structures within the flight path area. I will not allow that because I want them alive.
Order! Could you, please, conclude?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to say that, let us behave with some dignity. Let no MP throw stones to the police or to anybody else. Let us behave with dignity because we are hon. Members.
Order! Let us move to the next Order. All other Statements are deferred to Tuesday next week.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs on the Report of the Interim Independent Boundaries Review Commission (IIBRC) laid on the Table of the House on Thursday, 16th December, 2010. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, before I proceed to prosecute this matter, let me draw the Members’ attention to a number of annexures to this Report. Owing to the haste in which the Clerk’s Office had to put together all this material which is quite bulky, the numbering of some of these annexures was mixed up. Also, Members may not have had prior access to some of these annexures. I want to clarify to hon. Members that these annexures are marked as JLA. JLA (1) is the minutes of the Committee meetings during which it considered this matter in the preparation of this Report. Those minutes are marked JLA (1) and annexed to the Report as the first annexure. JLA (2) is a matrix representing a record of oral presentations made by hon. Members to the Committee in a bid to identify outstanding issues from the IIBRC Report. JLA (3) is the proposed Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission Bill. That is the Bill that the Committee proposes to be processed in order to establish the new Commission for purposes of dealing with matters outstanding from the work and the Report of IIBRC. That Bill that I drew Members’ attention to is annexed and marked JLA(3). The document marked as JLA(4) is a presentation made to the Committee by the former Chairman, of the now defunct IIBRC, hon. Andrew Ligale on 13th November, 2010. JLA(5) is a presentation made by the IIBRC, including data on the proposed constituencies and their delimitations, maps, diagrams and other supporting documents for that delimitation. That is marked as JLA(5). JLA(6) is a dissenting opinion presented and submitted to the Committee by three members of the Commission that dissented to
Order, hon. Namwamba! You will have 18 more minutes to complete moving the Motion next time. Order, hon. Members! It is now time for the interruption of business. The House stands adjourned until Tuesday, 21st December, 2010, at 2.30 p.m. The House rose at 6.31 p.m.