to ask the Minister for Transport:-
(a) Were Ms Japan Port Consultants, a Japanese Company, awarded a tender to undertake a feasibility study for the development of the Lamu Port and, if so, could the Minister table the report of the study?
(b) What is the status of the project and what is the anticipated date of completion?
(c) Is the project ongoing or has it been suspended and, if so, could the Minister state the reasons for the suspension and indicate when it will resume?
Is hon. S. Abdalla not here? We will come back to the Question. Next Question, hon. Anyanga!
Hon. Anyanga is also not here. We will come back to the Question.
Next Question, hon. Mwazo!
asked the Minister for Environment and Mineral Resources:- (a) whether he could provide a progress report on the rehabilitation of Voi River; and,
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) There is no ongoing rehabilitation on Voi River and, therefore, I am not in a position to give any progress report on the river or its rehabilitation. (b) No funds had been set aside for rehabilitation of Voi River. The problem, if any, has not been established.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am surprised. This same Assistant Minister visited Voi in June, 2008, during the celebrations of the Environment Conservation Day, when we visited the river and addressed a big baraza . He pleaded that his Ministry was going to allocate funds, so that Voi River could be rehabilitated, so that the overflowing that happens during the rainy season would stop and thereby stopping the resultant destruction and loss of lives. I am surprised that he is now reporting that nothing is being done. What do I go and tell the people of Voi in terms of what the Ministry is doing to rehabilitate the river?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is true that I visited Voi River with my experts and the people of that area. At that time, I directed the District Commissioner (DC), Voi, to convene a meeting of the District Environment Committee and forward a report on the same to the Ministry. Had we received any report on River Voi, we would have acted on it. We have received nothing. So, as far as we are concerned, nothing has been established up to now. However, now that the hon. Member has raised the issue at this level, I would request him to come to my office, so that we can sort out the problem.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Assistant Minister has said â and I believe that he has done so in good faith â that the Questioner may see him in his office about part of this Question. I am wondering whether that is in order, given that once a Question is on the Order Paper, it becomes the property of the House. Whatever should be discussed on this matter should be discussed here, so that we know how it ends. Is it in order for the Assistant Minister to ask the Questioner to see him in his office?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have replied to the Question. That was just an additional statement. If the hon. Member does not want to come to my office, that is fine. Mine is just a suggestion. I have replied that the need for rehabilitation of Voi River has never been established.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Questions relating to water bodies, including rivers; sand harvesting and pollution of our water bodies have become the daily business of this House. I am just curious. Is there no master plan by the Government to address the issue of quality of water in our rivers as well as protect those rivers, lakes and other water bodies? This is an issue which is cross-cutting. It is not necessarily an issue of the Ministry of Environment and Mineral Resources alone. It touches on the Ministry of Water and Irrigation, and other Ministries. Does the Government have a master plan â as opposed to its current approach of waiting to receive complaints from Members of Parliament or directly from the public â to address the issue of pollution in our rivers as well as the issue of sand harvesting?
Hon. C. Kilonzo, you have made your point. You need not over-emphasise it.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I said earlier on that there is nothing like rehabilitation taking place on Voi River. So, I am not in a position to make any---
Order, Assistant Minister! If I got you right, you summoned the DC and asked him to convene a meeting of the District Environment Committee to come up with a proposal for action by your office. The DC is a member of the Executive. As a matter of fact, he is your junior in the Government. Why would you expect the hon. Member to go and liaise with two different Government Departments? Maybe, the Leader of Government Business should be able to shed some light on these things, because they have become too common. It is not proper for a Minister to come here and say that another Department of the Government is not doing things right.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I sympathise with this situation but let me make it very clear that---
Order, hon. Kabogo! Allow the Assistant Minister to finish what he is saying. It is a serious matter.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would say that it was the failure by the DC, Voi, to convene a `meeting on this subject. That is why we have been trapped in this problem.
Have you liaised with your counterpart in the Government on the same matter? Is that not the natural way to do things?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have not done that liaison.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Minister confirms that he is actually the one who directed the DC to do a report on this matter. Why was it necessary for him to give those directions if there was no problem at the Voi River?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I agree that there is sand harvesting going on at Voi River, amongst other problems. What I wanted at that time was for the DC to convene a meeting of the relevant district committee, so that the Environment Officer could bring us a report. That is why I am saying that I was there, and that I gave directives. However, we do not have any report to-date regarding rehabilitation of Voi River.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This is a very important matter, and I do not think the people of Voi need sympathy from the Assistant Minister. They need action. Since the DC, Voi, has failed to convene the meeting, and the Assistant Minister is not able to direct him on the same, would I be in order to, through the Chair, ask that the Minister to whom the DC is responsible, comes here and directs the DC, so that he can convene that meeting?
I do not see the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security here. So, maybe, the Leader of Government Business can shed some light on this disconnect amongst the various Government Departments.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think it would be prudent to have the whole Question put off, so that we can consult, so that Government comes here and speaks as Government. We
Do you have any suggestion as to when you would be comfortable to have the Question appear on the Order Paper?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think the Assistant Minister for Environment and Mineral Resources would not mind if this Question is put off to next Tuesday, so that I can also look at it.
Mr. Mwazo, are you comfortable with the Question appearing on the Order Paper on Tuesday, next week? Do you have any other business on that day?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have no problem, only that I want to give information to the House. I have actually sat in the District Environment Committee four times, chaired by the DC, Voi---
Mr. Mwazo, those are details which you should share with the Assistant Minister as they prepare a comprehensive answer to the Question. The Chair directs that the Question appears on the Order Paper of Tuesday next week.
Next Question, Dr. Nuh!
asked the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security:- (a) whether he is aware that Mbalambala and Bangale divisions in Bura District have no District Officers (DOs); and, (b) when the Government will post DOs to the said divisions.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to bring to your attention the fact that I have not been given a copy of the written answer. These are lamentations we have made in this House several times.
Are you willing to proceed and prosecute the Question without the benefit of a written answer?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is unbecoming because then, we will let the Executive ride on us the way they wish.
Would you like the Question deferred to the next earliest possible day?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not even seeing the Minister in charge of Provincial Administration and Internal Security. I just wanted to draw your attention to the fact that I do not have a written answer to the Question.
Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security? Yes, Leader of Government Business.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in my set of notes, I do not also have an answer to this Question. The hon. Member for Bura knows that I will wish those DOs to be in place in Bangale as soon as possible. However, I do not want to answer it at this stage. I will also follow it up with the Ministry of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security, so that it could appear on the Order Paper tomorrow.
Are you happy with that, hon. Nuh?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
The Chair directs that Question No---
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It has become a habit of Ministers not to be in the House. When Members are not in the House to ask the Questions, the Chair drops Questions that are not asked by Members.
What is it we will to do to this Government because they do not come to Parliament, and we are always here? Casually, we pass over Questions to other days. Maybe, it will be in order to see this Minister properly sanctioned by the House?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I recall that yesterday, hon. Minister, Prof. Saitoti was here and he assured the House that he would answer the Question this morning.
Was this Question on the Order Paper yesterday?
No, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is the first time I have asked it.
Mr. Olago, do you wish to apologise?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to apologise. I am wrong. I think it is the next Question that he assured the House that he was going to answer it.
Fair enough! The Chair did express frustrations on a number of occasions in the past. The Chair gets the feeling that when the Ministers are sanctioned by being barred from transacting business on the Floor of the House; the impression is that they are too happy to do so. I keep on wondering who will lose under the circumstances. However, I think something needs to be done about Standing Orders. There will be more punitive sanctions within the Standing Orders to be able to make Ministers to be thoroughly responsible for their mandates and responsibilities on the Floor.
Under the circumstances, the Chair directs that this Question appears on the Order Paper tomorrow.
asked the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security:-
Hon. Leader of Government Business, you have another Question that was deferred yesterday.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I request your guidance on this one. This is the fourth time this Question is appearing on the Order Paper.
Yesterday, the Minister sat with me here and I pleaded with the Speaker to allow him or his Assistant to answer the Question this morning.
Yes, indeed, you are right. This Question has appeared on the Order Paper a number of times. We will nonetheless, give a direction on this.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Last week, there was a Question by hon. Member for Emuhaya and the Vice-President and Minister for Home Affairs answered it. Why can he not answer this Question because he is the Leader of Government Business in this House?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The purpose of Questions is to ensure that the Executive accounts on the spot. You can see from the example of today, and what has been there before, this has failed.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the House cannot be held at ransom. The Speaker cannot be frustrated over this matter, because he has a lot of powers, and the exemption one is under Standing Order No.1.
( Prof. Saitoti was applauded as he entered the Chamber)
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we plead that your take appropriation action, against the Ministers who fail to answer Questions after they have promised like hon. Saitoti.
Hon. Prof. George Saitoti, you were supposed to answer Questions this morning!
Proceed. As a matter of fact, for your information, Question No.536 has been deferred to tomorrow. That is the Question by Dr. Nuh.
Order, Prof. Saitoti! Hon. Dr. Nuh does not have a written answer. You will have to supply him with the written answer before the Question is answered tomorrow when it appears on the Order Paper. In the meantime, proceed and answer Question No.810.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Maybe, the Question was not answered yesterday because they were looking for more details. Could he furnish me with the appropriate answer now that he is in the House before he answers the Question?
Fair enough. Let us proceed on with the other Questions; we will come back to this Question.
Order! Order, hon. Kabogo! Hon. Outa; Order! This Question will be answered on the second round.
Question No.539, hon. Kabogo!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not object to him answering the Question. But when it was---
Order, this Question will be answered during the second round.
asked the Minister for Public Health and Sanitation:- (a) whether she is aware that sewerage from Ruiru Town flows into Ruiru River resulting in several deaths caused by water borne diseases, and, (b) What immediate measures the Ministry is taking to curb the menace.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply on behalf of my colleague, Minister for Public Health and Sanitation. (a) Yes, I am aware that Ruiru Town currently lacks a conventional sewage system, and sewage for Ruiru Town occasionally overflows from filled up septic tanks and pit latrines; that has been finding its way into Ruiru River. However, this only happens when the Councilâs only sewage exhauster is overwhelmed and the situation is worse, especially during the heavy rains. I am also aware that plans to provide a conventional sewage treatment plant for Ruiru were initiated in 2009, commencing with
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to seek the indulgence of the Chair. When I forwarded this Question to the office responsible here in Parliament, I requested that it be given to---
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I need your protection from the noise from the Member for Nakuru Town.
Order! What is your point of order?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I requested that this Question be forwarded to the Office of the Prime Minister because as you are aware, it touches on several Ministries. It touches on the Ministry of Environment and Mineral Resources because of water pollution, the Ministry of Water and Irrigation because it is responsible for water and sewerage services. As you have seen, part âaâ states that a conventional sewerage system is lacking. I am not sure how you want us to proceed because in my mind, this Question is not properly addressed in as far as the issue of the sewerage is concerned. I think that it should be dealt with as we did with the other matter on Voi. I am sure what the Chair will rule.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this House has been, on very many occasions, talking about pollution of our rivers and water bodies. We have been dealing with the issue of Lake Naivasha, Athi River, now Ruiru and many other water bodies. This Question would be best addressed by the Prime Ministerâs office, so that we can get a comprehensive response by the Government in as far as Government commitment is to protect our water bodies.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Question seems to be cross-cutting. Water issues and the provision of water fall under the Ministry of Water and Irrigation. Pollution falls under the Ministry of Environment and Mineral Resources and now, we have the health aspect of it. As my colleagues have said, this Question would best be addressed by the Prime Ministerâs Office, so that, at least, the House can have a comprehensive answer and a clear direction.
Deputy Leader of Government Business, indeed, it is the Chairâs view that the Question is quite cross-cutting. So, what do you have to say on behalf of the Government?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I agree with the sentiments by the Members. There is a component of public health but obviously, there is some information that is to be of benefit to the rest of the House. I agree that we should reroute the Question and have it covered comprehensively under the Prime Ministerâs Time.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. As a matter of fact, yesterday we discussed with the Deputy Leader of Government Business and the Minister for Water and Irrigation, Madam Ngilu, and she said that this matter should be forwarded to her because she has money to do sewer systems. So, it is in order to send it to the Prime Minister.
Order! When the Deputy Leader of Business himself is convinced that this Question should be rerouted and the Chair is, you need not emphasize. The emphasis has absolutely been made. The Chair directs that this Question be directed to the Prime Ministerâs Office. It would be answered on one of the Wednesdays during the Prime Ministerâs Time. The Chair directs that this be given priority and be directed to the Prime Ministerâs Office.
Hon. Kioni! Is he out of Parliament today on non- Government Business? Any parliamentary business!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I saw him at the airport.
Going to where?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, I cannot be vague, it must be Hague!
To the best of the recollection of the Chair and as the Chair of the Liaison Committee, the Chair has never sent any Parliamentary Committee to the Hague. But under the circumstances, if he is not there during the second round, then the Question will definitely suffer the fate of similar Questions.
Hon. K. Kilonzo! He is not here.
asked the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government:- (a) whether he could apprise the House on the status of the Nairobi beautification programme; and, (b) whether he could also consider rolling out a similar programme in other towns and cities in the country.
The Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government!
asked the Minister of State for Special Programmes:- (a) whether she could indicate the number and particulars of Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) who are still in camps and also state their current locations; and, (b) whether she could also provide details of the IDPs that the Government is planning to resettle in Mau-Narok area of Nakuru District and also provide an inventory and details of the parcels of land the IDPs were occupying prior to the Post Election Violence (PEV)?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.
(a) The number of IDPS who are still in camps is 16,179 households, out of which 8,600 are post-election violence victims and 7,527 are forest evictees. Their particulars and current locations are indicated in the schedule given to the hon. Member.
(b) I cannot provide the details of the IDPs that will be settled in Mau Narok since we have not yet identified them. The IDPs will be identified after the land has been planned and surveyed and after the issues that are arising out of the land have also been resolved. We are in the process of resolving those issues. So, once they are resolved, we will be able to say who will be settled there. The IDPs being settled in various places were the landless who depended on hawking and small-scale businesses for livelihood prior to the post-election violence. The violence seriously affected their source of livelihood and that is why the Government decided to resettle them after it bought small holdings of land. The process of settling the IDPs is fully consultative. The Government seeks for expressions of interest from individuals or private groups within the Republic who wish to sell their land to the Government through open advertisement in the local newspapers. After receipt of the proposals, an Inter-Ministerial Technical Committee makes site visits
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Minister for that answer. However, there has been talk out there that the Government, instead of settling displaced persons, is settling landless people especially from one community. Could she confirm this position? If that is the case, the issue of landlessness in Kenya runs through the whole country and not in one section. Is it the Government position to settle landless people and not those who were displaced?
These persons were displaced from their homes where they were doing businesses as hawkers. They were in various places. It is not just one community; rather it is anybody who was displaced from the areas, that is, Eldoret, parts of Kisumu, parts of Kitale and so on. I have the list of names which I can give to the hon. Member. The people we are settling are the ones who went and bought land in 20 camps. Those are the ones we are dealing with.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Minister has said that she is settling hawkers. Hawkers do not have parcels of land. I believe that if you are to be settled, you must produce a title deed to show where you had land. When you are being given a new piece of land, you must have proof of ownership of the land you owned. Is this a resettlement programme or an IDP settlement programme?
I think I would call it a livelihood resettlement as opposed to a resettlement of land.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the displaced people must have owned land somewhere. Could the Minister provide title deeds of the land that was occupied by the displaced persons before the post-election violence so that the Government will be able to determine whether it gave out this land to other deserving Kenyans?
I think I have already said that they were displaced from their livelihoods.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have an issue with regard to Mau Narok where there are issues remaining. Given the confirmation that these people were evicted from their homes; and conceding that there are homes where they were removed, why is it necessary to force them on another community and, therefore, create a crisis when you know the homes and the lands where they were evicted? You could ask them to return if, indeed, there is a genuine policy of resettlement!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there are consultations going on with the community from Mau Narok. As soon as we resolve the issues we shall be able to decide whether to settle people there or not. It will all depend on the outcome of the consultations between us and the communities.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the Minister in order to evade the question asked by Mr. Imanyara? You heard Mr. Imanyara say that these people came from somewhere. They had land somewhere. Why is it difficult for these
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first of all they were displaced and that is why we are calling them IDPs. If you read the Constitution, it says that Kenyans can settle anywhere in Kenya. That has not changed as far as I know.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Minister is not coming out very clearly. Could she, please, clarify this: The people who were living in towns did not own land. Their livelihood was based on what they were trading in and they had permanently been tenants. However, because of the politics of the post-election violence they were evicted. Is that the position?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Mr. C. Kilonzo has explained it very well. And their houses were actually burnt down.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, time and again we have stated here that people from the pastoralist communities are displaced every other day because of clashes, drought, and many other calamities. However, the Government seems to always have empathy on the post-election violence victims without recognizing that all year round there are communities which are displaced because of the ravages of life. What clear policy does the Ministry have in trying to resettle such people?
We are in the process of formulating a policy which I think will be tabled in Cabinet and Parliament in the next two weeks. There is also a parliamentary committee which is looking into the issues of all the displaced persons in Kenya. That is the committee that will take care of the people displaced in the pastoral communities and any other displaced persons.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is the Minister aware that because of erroneous classification there are several IDPs who are facing injustice? For instance, in Nyanza Province around Kisii and Kisumu, there are IDPs who have been classified as âreturneesâ and âintegratedâ. We have seen people with both limbs missing and they have never benefitted from a cent of the money that was given. There are people who have lost their loved ones and property. However, because of the erroneous classification, we have several IDPs who are being discriminated against. What is the Government doing to ensure that proper classification is used so that those people who were displaced - whether by their own communities, whether by other communities, whether from their localities or others, whether they had purportedly gone back home or not - are considered as IDPs? I want to give an example of Nyanza Province where women who ran away from other places have gone back and have not been accepted if they are not married because culturally they cannot. So, they are staying in centres where they have to pay rent and they have not been given even a cent. What is the Minister doing to redress that issue?
I think that is a separate Question which needs an answer for another time. I have 350,000 integrated IDPs whose plight we have not addressed and I believe they fall in that category.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Minister has clearly explained to the House that the IDPs being settled now are those whose livelihoods were actually destroyed. Why could the Government not take that money that they are using to buy land and reinstate these people to the businesses that they were running in the towns other than look for land? We need to close the havoc that we have.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that sounds like a different Question. I think when they were given Kshs10,000 and Kshs25,000, they went and bought small parcels of land which were inadequate and unhygienic. That is when the Government decided to resettle them.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Kieni has about 3,000 IDPs who came from the Rift Valley and other places. Could the Minister inform the House what arrangements she has made to resettle them?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, those are the ones I am calling integrated IDPs. They are not in camps, but we shall start dealing with them in the near future.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the hon. Minister in order to keep evading the question? There is a very fundamental problem, especially with regard to the definition of IDPs. The moment you call people âreturneesâ or âintegratedâ, you exclude them. We are just fresh from Kisumu and the things we saw there are horrifying. This country has forgotten IDPs. We saw people with broken limps and others with no legs. We saw a woman who had carried the head of her husband to bury. She had not received a cent. There are people who are being resettled by the Government. They are being given land. They told us to ask: âAre they Kenyans or Ugandans?â What is the Government doing to address the plight of IDPs from Nyanza? I felt pain and cried at that meeting! Are Nyanza people, that is the Kisiis, Luos and the Kurias not part of this country? The Kurias have not even been given a cent. They have not even been profiled. Are they not people in this country?
You have made your point. Hon. Minister, to the best knowledge of Kenyans and the Chair, there is what is called post-election violence IDPs. You are giving so many definitions here. I do not think Parliament has been exposed to that. Can you tell us what you are doing for the IDPs that every Member is talking about?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first of all, my mandate was to resettle the ones who were in the 20 camps. Then, there are integrated IDPs. Those are the 350,000. They must be in the situation that Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona is talking about. If they were not profiled--- The books were closed by December 2008. So, if they missed out, I suggest that they should give me the names. I will look at them and see what I can do.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Government seems to be penalising IDPs who have already been integrated . It is looking at the people who are in the camps only. We came from Kisumu yesterday. There are people who have been profiled and recognized. The District Commissioners have been writing to your office for the last three years and you are not taking any action to assist those people. At least, give them the Kshs10,000 and the Kshs25,000 so that they can be resettled, instead of looking for people who are already in camps and you are looking for funds to assist them. Those ones are willing and ready to get a place that they can call home. Why are you not sorting them out, Madam Minister?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as far as I am concerned, the people in Nyanza were paid. What I have said is that if those people were left out, then I am not aware.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Minister has said that the IDPs from Nyanza were paid and yet, they continue camping at the District
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You will forgive me. I just arrived yesterday at 7.00 p.m. from Nyanza. Unless the Minister is misleading the House, the Provincial Commissioner, District Commissioners and Regional Commissioners have given us facts. In Kuria, there is a list that was sent and the Government, since 2008, has never responded. Not one person in Kuria has been paid. When they were asked, they said that the list was submitted late. Was it the fault of the IDPs? In Mbita and Suba, the list was sent and nobody has been paid. Personally, I know of a boy whose legs were cut off and who has been selling land to take care of his siblings because he is an orphan. Not one person in Suba, Mbita and Kuria has been paid and the whole Provincial Administration is frustrated because the national office is discriminating IDPs. They were asking: âIs there a deliberate attempt to cut off certain communities?â The reason I am talking about integration is because our own leaders are misleading people. There are people who have not been integrated. Women are staying in small centres where they are paying rent. They have not been integrated. They are pained women. They were crying there. This is a very serious issue.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think I will require the details that hon. Odhiambo-Mabona has. She should provide them to me so that I can be able to answer her adequately.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Perhaps, the Minister is not aware that there is a Select Committee of the House addressing this issue. The question which is being brought up is that District Commissioners have, indeed, written to your office on the issue of integrated IDPs. The list covers not only areas in Nyanza, but virtually the entire country - even in your own place, Central Province. So, could the Minister come up very clearly? If she is not in the know and has not done her job, let her admit and ask for more time to deal with the issue. Otherwise, by the time we bring our report, I think it will be too late.
On a point of information, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to bring to the attention of the House that there is a clear motive by a section of this House to try and hype up the issue of IDPs, especially now that we have cases going on at The Hague. In my constituency---
No! On a point of order!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I must be protected!
Order! Order, hon. Outa! Hon. Assistant Minister, you are grossly out of order. Hon. Members, this is not a fish market. When an Assistant Minister rises on a point of information to help a fellow Minister, he or she must give facts that are in the domain of the Government. Should you wish to do that, you can either participate in a Motion for Adjournment or Private Membersâ Motions that come here. However, what you need to do as an Assistant Minister is that when you rise on a point of information, you should give information that is in the Governmentâs domain.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am ready to do that.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the IDPs that are being referred to here are not only from Nyanza. In Juja, we have over 10,000 integrated IDPs who were displaced from different places.
Order! To the best recollection of the Chair, the Chair has not heard any Member say that IDPs are only in Nyanza or those who are having problems are only in Nyanza. I do not want this thing to transcend into some kind of camps in this House. We are dealing with an issue that is very sensitive and important in this country. We are dealing with the issue of IDPs. The IDPs are all over the country. You have mentioned the IDPs in Juja. Can you just talk about the IDPs in Juja?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, would I be in order, therefore, to request that the Minister be given time to come to this House with a comprehensive Statement on the state of affairs of the IDPs because we have them in Juja?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I would like to support the point of order by Mr. Kabogo that this is a serious matter. I support the people who have gone to The Hague and I am not using this to whip up any emotions. It is a matter of addressing the plight of the IDPs. These are people who live in terrible conditions and yet we are sitting here because they fought over us. We have a responsibility as a country and as a Government to these people. Even money that could have been used to pay these people was returned to the Ministry. That is what we are asking the Minister to do. Could she bring a comprehensive Statement on the state of affairs in terms of resettlement of the IDPs and payment of Kshs10,000 and Kshs25,000 to the IDPs? That should include what she is doing about the IDPs in Turkana.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to seek your guidance on this matter because the Minister has come to this House specifically to answer a Question relating to the Mau Narok situation but we have now moved to a totally different matter. In her answer, the Minister mentioned that, indeed, the Parliamentary Committee is looking into this matter, they are working together and a report will be brought to this House. There is a Cabinet Paper that will be brought to this House in the next two weeks. There is also a paper coming to the House---
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
But I am on a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order! Could you allow the Minister to proceed?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, a paper on this matter will be brought to this House. The hon. Members who walked into the Chamber after she had talked did not have the benefit of that information. I request that we go to the first Question and then move on to this matter which is very sensitive, is experienced in the entire country and look at it comprehensively.
Order, Mr. Minister! Except that the Question is not solely on Mau Narok. If you look at part âaâ of the Question---
Order! Mr. Mbadi, one more time and if you speak when the Chair is speaking---
Two weeks will be adequate, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I would like to thank the Minister because she has handled this very well. However, as much as people may think we are politicking, could I request the Minister to liaise with the Minister for Medical Services because we have people with pathetic medical conditions so that the Government can give them free medical assistance between now and the two weeks? There are people who have died.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order! The hon. Minister must have taken note of all the sentiments that have been expressed by the hon. Members. The Chair directs that this Question appears on the Order Paper two weeks from today. That will be on Wednesday in the morning.
Let us move on to the next Question by Mr. Mungatana!
Is Mr. Mungatana not in the House? Is Mr. Mungatana out of the House today on any official Parliamentary business either in the country or out of the country? Fair enough, we will come back to that Question.
Let us move on to the next Question by Mr. Warugongo.
KILLING OF GITONGA KINGâORI BY ELEPHANT
asked the Minister for Forestry and Wildlife:-
(a) whether he is aware that 68 year old Gitonga Kingâori from Miteru Village, Kimahuri Sub-location in Kieni East District was killed by an elephant in Mt. Kenya Forest on 24th January, 2011;
(b) when the Government will compensate the family and how much will be paid; and,
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.
(a) I am aware that 68 year old, Gitonga Kingâori from Miteru Village, Kimahuri Sub-location in Kieni East District was found dead in Meere Forest on 24th January, 2011. The body was found by the area police three kilometres within the perimeter of the forest after being reported missing for four days. There was indication at the scene on the cause of the death.
(b)The deceased was buried and as of to date, the next of kin has not reported to the Kenya Wildlife Service (KWS) for any claim. I wish to advise the next of kin to make a claim report through the local KWS office. According to the current Wildlife Conservation and Management (Amendment) Act, Cap.376, Section 62, a person injured or killed by wildlife shall be compensated under this section out of monies provided by Parliament for that purpose. Currently, the amount payable is Kshs50,000 for injuries and Kshs200,000 for loss of life.
(c)The community around Mt. Kenya National Park and KWS are undertaking the construction of fences and it is expected that this will reduce human/wildlife conflicts in the area. The fencing is being funded through the Mt. Kenya East Pilot Project Global Environmental Fund. This is Phase I of the fencing project----
Order, hon. Members! Please, listen to the hon. Assistant Minister.
Proceed, Mr. Assistant Minister!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to repeat.
(c)The community around Mt. Kenya National Park and KWS are undertaking the following construction of fences and it is expected that this will reduce human/wildlife conflicts in the area. The fencing is being funded through the Mt. Kenya East Pilot Project Global Environmental Fund. This is Phase I of the fencing project.
(i) Sirimon to Wangwembori fence which is 20 kilometres - to be completed within the next one month.
(ii) Mt. Kenya Estate fence which is 7 kilometres - to be completed within the next one month.
(iii) Gikumbo-Ritunduti fence which is 30 kilometres - to be completed in three monthsâ time.
(iv) Mt. Kenya West fence which is 18 kilometres - completed and another 62 kilometres to be undertaken.
(v) Thengu community fence which is 7 kilometres - completed.
(vi) Biriani Ward fence which is 7 kilometres - work is in progress.
(vii) Umma fence which is 12 kilometres - almost completed and wholly funded by the KWS.
Phase II of the Mt. Kenya East Pilot Project Global Environmental Fund will see the construction of another 50 kilometres fencing around the Mt. Kenya perimeter.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do sincerely appreciate the answer given by the Assistant Minister about the death of Gitonga Kingâori of Miteru Village, Kimahuri in Kieni. I will try and inform the family and ask them why they have not forwarded a claim to the Ministry. In the meantime, this death could not have happened were the fence around Mt. Kenya complete. I have brought this issue severally in this House. I have asked the Assistant Minister to complete the fence but now he has said that the project will be completed. There are several projects on the Mt. Kenya fence. What is the role of the community and the Government in the construction of this fence?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the KWS sources funds from either the Treasury or the various development partners. It works closely with communities to provide labour to do the fencing.
Mr. Warugongo, last question on the same.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want the Assistant Minister to visit the Mt. Kenya fence. It would be in order for him to give me a date when he can come over and have a look at the various projects of Mt. Kenya electric fence. We have the Umma fence in Irieini Ward done by local community; Mt. Kenya West, Gikumbo/Gikundu, Mt. Kenya Estate fence and Sirimon. I want him to come to the ground and see the truth. Could he give me a date now?
Assistant Minister, are you willing to go and see for yourself the sufferings of Kenyans in the hands of wildlife there?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will realize that since the beginning of the year we have managed to visit a number of hotspots. In addition to that, we are also beginning the long rainy season tree planting, which we will be launching on the 14th of this month. It is only a week ago, on the 24th, when we visited Shimba Hills National Reserve. We will go back there on the 18th for the branding of the park. I want to assure the hon. Member that within the next one and a half months we will be able to pay a visit to Mt. Kenya, as there are many other things we would want to check on. We will inform him, so that he accompanies us.
Assistant Minister, can you give an undertaking?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, within the next one and a half months we will visit the place and we will advise him to accompany us.
Fair enough. Question No.1 by Private Notice by Ms. Shakila Abdalla!
to ask the Minister for Transport:- (a) Were Ms Japan Port Consultants, a Japanese company, awarded a tender to undertake a feasibility study for the development of the Lamu Port and, if so, could the Minister table the report of the study? (b) What is the status of the project and what is the anticipated date of completion?
Is Ms. S. Abdalla not here? Is Ms. S. Abdalla out of the country or Parliament today on parliamentary business?
Yes, Mr. Y. Haji, you have---
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have no question.
Question No.2 by Private Notice by Mr. Omondi Anyanga!
to ask the Minister for Environment and Mineral Resources:- (a) Could the Minister explain the criteria and official requirements for mineral prospecting rights and licence for gold mining? (b) What criteria was used to award Mid-Migori Company exclusive prospecting rights and licence for gold mining in Nyatike Constituency and for how long has the company been operating? (c) How much has the company spent in corporate social responsibility for the benefit of the local community, particularly in view of the obtaining tension between the company and the local residents?
Is Mr. Anyanga not here? Question dropped!
Let us go back to ordinary questions.
asked the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security:- (a) whether he is aware of the disappearance and subsequent deaths of two brothers, John Kamuri and Peter Irungu of Yamugwe Village,
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while I would accept the answer given by the Minister, he is reading from a different script. I have an answer here which was given by his Assistant Minister in the past. The Minister may have given a summary, but the script he is reading is different from what I have. Peter Irungu and John Kamuri were handed over by the matatu crew. The conductor called a certain office when the matatu was between Murangâa and Ruiru. When the matatu got to Ruiru it stopped. The conductor got out and talked to people who were in a car. They came into the matatu and the conductor identified these two fellows who were pulled out of the matatu and put into this car. The following day the witness, who was their cousin, Kenneth Waitwika called on the matatu crew at Machakos and the fellow was handed over also to Kamukunji police. They were then asked to go to Kayole. The two bodies were found a day after at Ruiru. This is an extreme example of extra- judicial killings. This is because the police at Ruiru were the ones who directed the mother of the two boys to the City Mortuary. The answer given on this piece of paper indicates that the investigations are still going on. The answer is, therefore, incomplete. Human rights groups have gone to see the Prime Minister on the same---
Can you ask a question? It is Question Time.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is now evident that the Minister should own up to this action. Mr. Waitwika, who was the witness, on the 11th of last month was
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The hon. Member has raised a very serious matter. I happened to be in this House when the Assistant Minister gave an answer to the same Question. What I am hearing from the Minister now is very different from what I heard on that day. Given that these people are working in the same Ministry, should we not get some clarification on what to expect when a Minister and an Assistant Minister from the same Government give contradictory statements regarding extra-judicial killings? This is not an issue we can take very lightly given the number of incidents where police are involved in killings, and then purporting to do the investigations themselves. Minister, could you please be a little bit more serious and tell us why your answer is so different from what was given by Mr. Ojode in this House?
Minister, the point of order raised by Mr. Imanyara, as well as the---
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, essentially what the hon. Member has given, and which was given here--- Much of that information is already in the answer I have given. In my supplementary---
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Shall I hand over the answer given by the Assistant Minister? Could the Minister hand over what he has so that we can compare the two? Is he in order to continue misleading the House? I can hand over this answer.
Mr. Mwangi, in parliamentary business we lay documents on the Table. We do not hand them over. Please, proceed and Table it!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in my Statement yesterday I sought to be given time to look into this matter---
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Could the Minister table a copy of the answer he is reading in the House because I do not have it?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that will be tabled. However, I would like to say here categorically that yesterday I said that I needed time to look into this Question and ensure that there is no more information or further information that has not yet come. After looking at this matter very carefully, I came up with this answer. The answer that I have given today basically captures what was given by my Assistant Minister. They know---
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I still---
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me just say---
Order! Mr. Mwangi, could you allow the Minister to---
But I do not have a copy of the written answer he is reading!
Order! Proceed, Minister!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is what I have given. The most important thing is that my answer also has the same supplementary information that is already with the hon. Member. In other words, if he were to look at the answers I have given and the supplementary information in the answer that I will give even now â and I can read it â he will see it is the same word by word as to what he has. Therefore, there is no need for me to repeat it. If the hon. Member wants me to give the minute details of the investigation, which is what he has, I am prepared to go through it.
Yes, Mr. Imanyara! Are you asking a supplementary question?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Hon. Members, let us interrogate the Question!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, given the fact that it is the police that is being accused of these extra-judicial killings, is the Minister satisfied that the same police officers can actually carry out independent investigations?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as per the law today, when there is such an allegation against the police, it is the police that does it. This is something that we have already observed and that is why very shortly I will bring a Bill before this House to establish an Independent Police Oversight Authority. This is because it is wrong as is the case today--- There is a legal lacuna because if there is an allegation against the police, it is the same police which is mandated to carry out investigations as per the law. We hope to do away with that lacuna by one of the Bills that we will bring before this House. The Bill will be brought before this House any time because it is ready. That is the Independent Police Oversight Authority.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have been following the issues to do with the killings for some time. If you look at the place of origin for the boys who are being killed, you will discover that they all come from a particular area within Murangâa. Is there a designed programme by the Government to eliminate the youth from Murangâa for a particular cause?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to inform this House that there is no policy set out by the Government intended to eliminate young people in this country leave alone Murangâa because the youth of this country is the future of this country.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. If you listened to what the Minister has told us in this House, it is very strange that young men are disappearing all over this country. Just as somebody else has asked, is it the policy of the Government to eliminate young people from our place? This is because this is not the first time we are hearing about young men disappearing. This country is behaving as if we are in a banana republic and I am sure Kenya is not a banana republic where people just disappear every day, we come and report here and nothing happens. I am sure this is what happens and the Government is aware of it. Could the Minister come out clean and tell us exactly what is happening, because he must be aware?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, what we are aware about is the fact that there exists a plethora of organized criminal gangs who have been carrying out criminal activities, including killing each other in their own fight. It is not long ago that I brought
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the hon. Minister in order to mislead this House? I was an hon. Member of the Select Committee that dealt with organized crime and almost three-quarters of the young people who have been shot and killed come from Central Kenya. Specifically, they are Kikuyu. Is the Minister in order to mislead the House?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in no way am I misleading the House. It is, indeed, true that data vary from place to place depending on the scope of activities of the criminal gang and where it is. However, on what was sought from me, there are criminal gangs. Let us own up to that truth. We are leaders and we have criminal gangs in various places who have been committing criminal activities, including killing innocent people or even killing each other.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this being a very serious matter, could the Minister provide to this House conclusive findings by ballistic experts on the cartridges found on the scene of the murder to establish the type of gun that was used to terminate the lives of these innocent Kenyans?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, like I have said, this matter is under investigation and the Director of the Criminal Investigation Department is spearheading it. Once the investigation is complete and the report is out, I will be quite happy to come to this House and give it that information.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me a chance to seek some clarifications. The Minister has admitted that there are criminal gangs in the country. He has said that as the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security, he is aware about them. However, he has not said what he has done about those gangs. Secondly, the Minister has also admitted that there is a police inquest file which has been opened at Ruiru. We all know that when inquest files for such cases are opened, invariably, they end up without anything having been done. They just disappear into thin air. Could the Minister corroborate what is happening on the two cases with the report that was given by one Philip Alston, which was similarly based on extra-judicial killings? What action has been taken on that report because the issues that we raised that occasioned the inquest inquiry by Philip Alston were similar to this one? Or, will we continue to talk like a talk show on the Floor of the House when we are national leaders?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I said regarding this matter, an inquest file was opened at Ruiru Police Station. The Director of Criminal Investigation Department (CID) has taken interest in this matter. He is following it very closely. That will determine, depending on the investigations results, whether the culprits are the police or some of the organized criminal gangs. For that reason, therefore, at this particular time, it is not reasonable to state that it is the police who killed of those people. Finally, I
Mr. Speaker, Sir, you have seen the interest that the House has taken in this Question. The last sentence of the answer, a copy of which you have, says, and I read:- âA Ruiru Inquest File No.47/2010 was opened and the matter is under investigation by police and officers from CID Nairobi. Appropriate action will be taken once investigations are complete.â Those two brothers; Peter Irungu and John Kamuri, and their cousin, Kenneth Waitwika, who was also eliminated on 11th March, 2011--- Mr. Waitwika was supposed to go to court on 6th May to give evidence. He was picked from Muthurwa and killed in Loitokitok. Could the Minister, since this answer is incomplete, give a date to the House as to when he will report back the findings of the investigations on Peter Irungu, John Kamuri and Kenneth Waitwika, who are relatives? They were picked seemingly because of the same case. The conductor who called whoever he called is being protected by the police. The work of the police is to protect property and the people of the Republic of Kenya. How can the Government protect the witness who is supposed to say who he called to come and pick those two boys? Mr. Waitwika was picked on Friday after he attended a court hearing. He was taken by the police. Could the Minister be honest enough and commit himself to give a report after the investigations? He should tell us why the conductor was released and yet, he is the one who called whoever picked those people? Could he commit himself that, at a given date in future, he will bring a report regarding the three named persons?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me, with your permission, prefix my answer by saying that we are dealing with a matter of death of Kenyans. This is a grave matter. I also feel sad about it and I am committed to ensure that we get to the bottom of it. That is why I stated that investigations have now been elevated to the level of Director of Investigations. I will, upon the completion of the investigation, come back here to report.
Fair enough! Are you able to give a tentative assumption on when the investigations will be concluded?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not in a position to do so now. However, I will do so to ensure that the police finalize their investigations as soon as possible. This is not something that I can come and say it will be ready tomorrow or the day after. There are many details and a lot of work must be done. What has been brought here is the progress so far.
Hon. Minister, the Chair takes note of the fact that three members of one family were killed. These are lives of Kenyans and it is a very serious allegation. It includes one who is a potential witness. It is only fair if you can give a provisional period in which you think you will be ready. It is provisional in the sense that you must give hope to Kenyans that their lives are safe. Could you do that?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to say: Give me one month. I will try to pull the police together so as to expedite the investigation. I will then come and report here whether it will be a final or an interim report. I will oblige with the request made by the hon. Member.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You have heard the Member for Kiharu say that while this Question was pending here in Parliament, a witness was picked from court and killed. As the Minister is asking for time, could he give an assurance that he will protect the remaining witnesses because it is the system which is killing those people? Somebody disappeared from Githurai. The father of the boy who disappeared, his daughter in-law and his daughter were sent to the same Ruiru Police Station which is in my constituency. Those people disappeared once and for all and until today, they have never been found. So, we could be buying time only for those witnesses to be killed. Could he give an assurance to this House because it is not God who is killing those people? It is the police who are killing those people. Prof. Saitoti is the man in charge of the police force. Kenyans are being killed day in, day out. We keep on saying investigations will be carried out and inquest files will be opened. For how long?
You have made your point!
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. There was a Committee that was dealing with organized crimes. All the witnesses who appeared before the Committee, which were basically the leadership of Kenya Youth Alliance Group, said that their lives were in danger. True to their word, all of them, with no exception, who appeared before that Committee of Parliament, were all executed. As we wait for the progress on that particular case, could the Minister assure the House that extra-judicial killings will cease forthwith?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have, on a number of occasions and, on various forums, stated that, yes, indeed, there have been cases of extra-judicial killings. That is not a Government policy and I have stated that. I have also said that in cases where extra-judicial killings have been detected, the Government has taken action. We are doing so. As a matter of fact, hon. Members may be aware that the scenario is declining rather than increasing. I will, however, say yes, I will take the necessary steps to ensure that the witnesses are totally protected. That is much more so because we passed a legislation regarding witness protection here.
This Question has had a very fair share of time. Indeed, it is a very serious matter that touches on the lives of Kenyans. It is because of that, that the Char has given sufficient leeway. However, we have other business to transact. Next is Question No.629.
Question No.659, hon. K. Kilonzo!
asked the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government:- (a) whether he could apprise the House on the status of Nairobi beautification programme, and, (b) whether he could also consider rolling out a similar programme in other towns and cities in the country.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me, first of all, apologise for not being here when the Question was asked in first round.
We were not aware in the weekly programme that this Question would feature. So, I do not have the answer to the Question at present. However, I would request the Chair to defer this Question to tomorrow afternoon and I will answer it.
Are you happy with that, hon. C. Kilonzo?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Fair enough! The Chair directs that this Question appears on the Order Paper tomorrow afternoon.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. When you called for Question No.659, I want to understand whether Mr. K. Kilonzo is out of the country on official business or unofficial business to The Hague.
Order, hon. Shakeel! The Chair did, indeed, confirm that the hon. K. Kilonzo is not out of the House today either on parliamentary business out of the country or out of the House on a Parliamentary business. Under the circumstances, the rules are very straight. The Chair has no business knowing privately where hon. K. Kilonzo has gone. It cannot be the business of the House to do so. Therefore, you are out of order.
The Chair directs that Question No.706 by hon. C. Kilonzo appears on the Order Paper tomorrow afternoon. Next Question by hon. Danson Mungatana.
Is hon. Mungatana, by any chance, out of the House today on some official Parliamentary business? His Question is dropped.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move: THAT, in accordance with Section 174(h) of the Constitution---
Order! Correct it. It is article and not section
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move: THAT, in accordance with Article 174(h) of the Constitution which provides that one of the objects of devolution is to âfacilitate the decentralization of State organs, their functions and services, from the Capital of Kenyaâ, noting that Kenyans face serious challenges in acquisition of national identity cards; this House urges the Government to facilitate the decentralization of the issuance of national identity cards from Nairobi to the 47 counties in line with the provisions of the Constitution within the next six months.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is a very serious matter. This is an issue that will help this country. The idea that national identity is not a right, but a privilege is gone, when we enacted the new Constitution. Article 12(1) of the Constitution declare, and I quote:-
12(1) Every citizen is entitled to-
(b) a Kenyan citizen passport or any document of registration or identification issued by the State to the citizens.â
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you can see even as I move this Motion, the Minister of State for Immigration and Registration of Persons is not here. The Assistant Minister too is not here. So, it tells you---
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is a lot of loud consultations.
Order, Members! Allow the Member to move the Motion. Please, consult in lower tones.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the absence of the Ministers speaks very loudly about this matter. The Government could be here. There is a line
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Government and the previous Government of the Ninth Parliament have achieved a lot in various sectors be it in the road sector, water or devolved funds. But when it comes to the issuance of the national identification cards, it is a disaster. There is a perception within the Government that the right person to issue the national identity cards and the person with the right information is the Principal Registrar. When I got my first ID in 1982, I was a Form Four student and I got it in school on the spot. I filled my form, my teachers confirmed the details, they took me a photograph and it had everything including the fingerprinting. I am just curious. The first question on my ID is my name, which is Mutavi Kilonzo. My villagers know my name. The next question is the date of birth. My mother
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity to support this Motion. I want to thank Mr. Affey for bringing this timely Motion. This is something that affects every single part of this country. We have several young people who have not been able to receive their identification. We know that the ID is a very important document in this country in relation to access of resources and services. It is now a right under Article 12 (2) of the Constitution. It is a fundamental right. I know there are people who would argue that because it is in Chapter 3, it does not fall within the Bill of Rights in Chapter 4. However, you can see that it is a right that can only be limited under Article 24 of the Bill of Rights. It means that all the provisions under that chapter are fundamental rights. Because of that, one of the things that the Government must now understand and appreciate is that we did not pass the Constitution for merely cosmetic purposes. We passed the Constitution to get us from a wrong and negative past to a more progressive future. A progressive future is one where we do not have Kenyans being criminalized for not having IDs when it is the Government which has not given them that identification. It is also a present and a future where people can access services because of identification. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, under Article 6(3) of the Constitution, it is provided that any national State organ shall ensure reasonable access to its services to all parts of the country. Therefore, in every single part of this country, there must be a nearest centre that gives identification cards. This issue of centralizing the issuance of IDs in places where people cannot reach and having in place provisions that make people not get IDs is not in order. In fact, IDs should be availed at absolutely no cost. Kenyans should have IDs at absolutely no cost. I know a lot of young people who have not been able to get recruited to the police and the Army because they do not have IDs. We know that now there is a cut-off age and yet there are people who have been waiting for IDs for more than three years. In the process of waiting for their IDs they have passed that age limit. We are being discriminatory to those people. I spoke about IDPs earlier today. One of the things that we gathered from the ground is that a lot of the IDPs are not able to get food and the money rations because they do not have IDs. When we spoke to the Nyanza Provincial Commissioner, he said that millions of shillings were returned. Even though they had the list of names, many of the people did not have IDs. We know that a lot of the youths cannot access jobs because of lack of IDs. Because of that, as a matter of urgency and priority, we must make sure that we avail the IDs within six months. We know that voting is a constitutional right. If we do not give
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity to support this Motion. We realize the importance of national identification. Getting an identification card is the road towards getting a job. Without one, you cannot vote or get a loan. Virtually, you cannot do anything without an identity card. In the new constitutional dispensation that we passed last year, it is very clear that, that is a constitutional right for every single Kenyan. It should worry us in the Government and all the political leaders in this House that more than 15 million Kenyans do not have identification cards up to now. This is something that should be prioritized for everyone and all the areas.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you have to realize that the current identification card registration is so inadequate. It is so centralized in Nairobi. The system is very slow and cumbersome. Some areas are not even covered, particularly areas that do not have registration officers at the district headquarters. This is basically because we are told that to roll out the mobile registration into those areas, funds have to be provided. However, the Treasury has denied the Ministry of State for Immigration and Registration
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. You have heard the Assistant Minister really expressing the need for identification cards. I am not seeing anybody from the Government side who is really taking notes on behalf of the Government so that these kind of ideas will actually be put to good use. Are we acting in vain here?
Dr. Wekesa, have you heard those sentiments?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, perhaps, my colleague who is from my region did not see me. But I have taken three pages of Membersâ contributions. This is a very important Motion and the Government is taking it very seriously.
Proceed, Mr. Nanok!
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. The whole reason why we are devolving national government functions down to the grassroots is because we, and Kenyans, have found out that the national Government cannot function when it is so centralized. We have been unable to provide essential services to the people. This is a critical function. I think the Ministry should decentralize the service down to the counties. That way, county governments, together with the national officers who will be posted to those counties, can be able to work closely and make sure that every single Kenyan who is above 18 years has an identification card, birth certificate and all the essential documents that will entitle them to get a job, vote, apply for loans and any other issues that they may require an identification card for.
With those few remarks, I support this Motion and urge my colleagues to fully support it so that within six months, it is passed.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. My colleague is asking me whether I have a kipande, and I am prepared to show it to him.
Address the Chair, please.
He is wondering whether we have that. I can show that to him. However, on a more serious note, as has been said by my colleagues - and I will not want to repeat too much â having an identity card is your fundamental right. It appears that the minority groups are the ones that are hit the worst, especially the Muslims, tribes in North Eastern Province and other places. We wonder whether there is an hidden agenda to disenfranchise those groups, so that they do not vote. It is a shame to see the same Government wasting money.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we saw the other day that the issue of getting condoms seems to be more important than the one of identity cards. We are jumping all over the place saying that we do not have condoms. What about the question of identification cards? We have no identification cards. It is also wrong to blame the Treasury all the time that it has not given us the money if the Ministry of Planning, National Development and Vision 2030 has not budgeted for that money. This is one of the pillars of Vision 2030 that every person must have the right to vote and they must vote. I hope sooner than later, we will pass a law that everybody must vote. However, that cannot be implemented until the time we will all have identification cards. We are very far behind. The question of new generation identification cards is not even relevant at this moment in time. The colonial government, as bad and as hated as it was, gave everybody a kipande without fail. The reasons were different. Here, the reasons are still identification to ensure that, that gentleman or lady is a citizen of this country. What shocks me is that it is easier to get a passport than an identification card. A passport is an important document. It allows you to travel all over the world. In Kenya, we are going to serve the rich. The poor are always suppressed because they cannot make noise. We can get a passport within 24 hours but a poor man will sit outside in the rain waiting for the chief to sign the documents. The chief will take another Kshs100. Somebody else is also going to sign and he or she will take some more money. It can take a poor man up to six years or even more to get an identification card. I am told that there are people who are over 50 years old and they do not have identification cards. So, I would like to tell the Ministry of State for Immigration and Registration of Persons to get off its back side. This is an issue of national importance more than some of the things they are doing. If the Ministry does not have money, it should stop issuing work permits for Godâs sake. If it has no money, it should stop issuing other documents. It should issue identity cards. If the Ministry has no money, it should stop issuing passports but issue identity cards because this is for the poor and it must be done. If it is not done, then the Ministry has failed in Vision 2030. There is nothing like Rapid Results Initiative (RRI). At the same time, this Government should realise that we must share, understand and prioritize costing or expenses. It is a shame that one arm of the Government says that there is no money for identity cards and resettle Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) who are languishing while the other arm of the Government is going round in shuttle diplomacy. We are talking more about The Hague than the issuance of identity cards. I really wish that at every function where we are talking about The Hague, somebody was talking about identity cards because this would have helped a lot. I am not taking away for a minute peopleâs
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to support this Motion. In a very brief way, I wish to say that this is a timely Motion. This is the document that we need as soon as possible. I also thank the hon. Member for bringing this Motion at this time because the budgeting process is on. When we talk about six months, we are talking about this issue being prioritized in the Budget. If we do not prioritize this item--- We do not want to debate a Budget that does not have this item. We have had problems on the ground. We have people who are carrying waiting cards which show that they have applied for identity cards. They have been with these waiting cards for the last one or two years. It is a shame that we are unable to issue people with identity cards on time. This means that people have not been able to open accounts in banks and apply for any other document because this is a very basic document. In our Ministry, Kazi kwa Vijana (KKV) is done differently. The KKV is not paid weekly. We require that our youths open accounts. When we talk about the cleaning of Nairobi River and the new project of cleaning of Sosiani River, we employ people on a monthly basis and our youth who do not have identity cards have suffered a lot because we demand that they open bank accounts through which they will be paid. We have discovered that many youths do not have identity cards. There are a number who have waiting cards which show that they have applied for identity cards but there are many more who even gave up on applying. This is because the minute they know they will not get the identity card but a card that only indicates that they have applied for an identity card, they do not apply. It is for that reason that a number of them have been disadvantaged. Even now we are struggling to sort out the street children who require identity cards so that they can be employed in the same project. To us, the project must take care of the youths across the board including street children.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Motion is timely and it is very important that we decentralize the issuance of identity cards. âDecentralizationâ means that that
Thank you, Mr. Temporary deputy Speaker, Sir. I am glad to see that the Minister is now here and he can take notes although there was collective responsibility from our Minister. I just want to reiterate what my colleagues have already said that this is a constitutional right. The Constitution mentions it in more than two sections. We have Article 6(3) and also in Article 12(b). This is a right for all Kenyans. Kenyans are crying across this country because of the issue of identity cards. If you go to schools, you will find that students are talking about leaving school without their identity cards. If you are looking for employment, you will find that everybody is saying that they cannot get a job because they do not have an identity card. If you go to any institution, you will find that everybody is crying aloud. What is the problem?
I fully support this Motion that we must decentralize this activity. The activity must be decentralized to the counties. It is the counties where we can gather real information. I believe that even the supposed corruption that we have heard--- We have been told that there are undeserving Kenyans who have acquired Kenyan identity cards just because of money and yet the deserving Kenyans who should get the identity cards do not get them because they are unable give out money. We would like to tell the Ministry that this must be done with the urgency that it deserves; decentralization. We now have 47 counties which are firmly in our Constitution. If this activity is done at the county level, it will be expedited and will be faster. This will enable us to issue more Kenyans with identity cards than we are able to do at the moment. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are approaching 2012. All of us are interested parties, all of us are stakeholders. We want as many of our voters to be registered before 2012. But then again where is the problem? It is in the issuance of identity cards (IDs). We again have that problem. We want one form of identification in this country. We want to urge the Ministry of State for Immigration and Registration of Persons and other connected Ministries that we should be able to use one form of ID. Once you are registered with an ID, you should be able to use it both for voting and for any other business such as acquiring a job. Once everything is in a database, all we need is one form of identification, so that the only other thing you need is a passport when you want to travel out of the country. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to inform you that in my constituency in Sotik, we have an area, one of the divisions, Abosi--- I think every other person in that
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. This is a wonderful morning when we have this Motion on the Floor of this House. I would like to support it. This document called the ID is an essential document for any Kenyan. If you want employment, you need an ID. Even when you are dead, you still need an ID to be registered that as dead. If you want to open a bank account, you need an ID. If you want to register an organization in this country, you need an ID. If you want to vote, you need an ID.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Did you hear the Assistant Minister say that even when you are dead, you need an ID? Now if you have not attained the age of 18 years, do you need an ID in order to die?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to remind the hon. Member that I hope he knows that in his constituency every dead person has to be registered as dead. For you to get the death certificate for that person, you need to surrender the ID. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you need this document for any activity in this country. It is impossible to get this document. You make life difficult for every Kenyan who does not have an ID. I remember that when I was young, I was given an ID in school. There were people travelling around registering Kenyan students in schools and giving them IDs within a few days. In those days, we did not have technology. Transportation alone was also very difficult, and we had very few cars around. If those people could travel around to issue IDs--- There were no computers. You know what these people need? These people need just one computer per county, a digital camera because they need to photographs of those to be given IDs, a printer, USB cable to store the information so that you bring it to the headquarters and issue the IDs as you register the person. This idea that when someone wants to register, they need a recommendation from their grandparents who do not know how to write--- I do not know how you are going to teach them to write, so that they write a
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I want to begin by thanking Mr. Affey for this particular Motion. Mr. Affey is really helping this country. You remember the other day, he brought the Motion on indemnity, the Motion on the Equalization Fund, through which we even asked for 15 per cent of the National Budget, although in the Constitution, we are now given 0.5 per cent. I think this is a job we expect
Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. Equally, I would like to congratulate the Mover of this Motion and thank the Minister. These are special thanks on behalf of the people of North Eastern Province and, in particular, Garissa County. In the spirit of the new Constitution and inclusiveness, the Minister has facilitated and put up an office in Garissa. The office is giving services to people in terms of acquiring passports. This has given an opportunity to people to apply and in two days, they have the document. That service is in Garissa. That is what we expect from the Minister because we know he has the ability, capacity and we know that he can do it. That is what we are asking him to do. We are trying to help him to address these particular issues. We are telling him that the Constitution gives us express mandate for every person to be given a service. Look at the section on Values and Principles of Governance in our Constitution. I will read:- âOne of our values is inclusiveness, participation, human dignity and non- discrimination.â How can you have inclusiveness in a process in the Government if you are not able to participate? If you do not have a national identity card, you will not participate. You will not be inclusive in any process in this country, be it socio-economical, cultural and political affairs of this country. So, if only we follow the values that we have given ourselves as a country, then we have an obligation. The Ministry has an obligation to give an identity card to every Kenyan. Look at Article 12. It says that every citizen is entitled to a Kenyan passport and any document of registration or identification by the State. The State has the obligation to give everybody a national identity card, passport and any other document that they require. The Minister has that responsibility because the identity card, the passport and the death certificates fall under his docket. If you look at the Bill of Rights, you will see that it is very fundamental. It is expanded and has given us all the freedoms that one can get. If you look at the Rights and Fundamental Freedoms, Article 19(3)(a) says:- âThe rights and fundamental freedoms in the Bill of Rights belong to each individual and are not granted by the State.â That means that every person has the fundamental right to acquire all that he or she requires. An identity card is a fundamental right. The State is supposed to facilitate the process so that when I am looking for something, I can produce my identity card that reads Sophia Abdi. If you look at Article 21(i), it reads:- âIt is a fundamental duty of the State and every Start organ to observe, respect, protect, promote and fulfill the rights and fundamental freedoms in the Bill of Rights.â
Hon. Members, I only have five minutes before I ask the Minister to respond. That was the agreement.
Hold on. Let us get some clarifications.
Have you agreed? Can we continue?
After clarifications have been made, we will continue.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker for giving me an opportunity again to contribute to this very important Motion. First, I will thank the Mover of this Motion, hon. Affey, because the Motion is timely and long overdue. Kenyans have been crying over the acquisition of that document for a long time. All corners of this nation have been in anguish because the procurement of this document has been a nightmare. Decentralization of this service will rescue Kenyans from this predicament. At times, bribes have been given in order to get this document. This should not happen in a modern Kenya where freedom has been guaranteed to Kenyans in the new Constitution.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, at times, people wait for the issuance of this document, and pass on without getting it. We should make it possible for all Kenyans to access it. We also remember that there have been syndicates operating in River Road in Nairobi issuing fake identity cards. If this system is streamlined, the issuance of fake documents will not be there. Therefore, by bringing this service to the County Government, communities will be happy. They will be able to access the document without any problem. Our constituents will be able to get the document near their homes. The transport element will also be reduced. The spirit of the new Constitution will also be maintained.
Madam Temporary Deputy, it is vivid in our minds that, in the past, our schools have been issuing the documents. Principals in our secondary schools are competent enough to facilitate issuance of this document. It is, therefore, imperative that we facilitate the decentralization of this service. Our principals will be able to issue this
Hon. Members, you will need to concur that we reduce the time to about three minutes for each Member, so that it can take us to about 12.10 p.m. We have a contribution from the Minister for five minutes and another five minutes for the Mover. So, we have ten minutes. Can we agree to take three minutes for each of the speakers?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I will take three minutes. I stand to support this Motion. From the onset, I want to thank the Vice-President and Minister for Home Affairs and the ODM-Kenya for nominating hon. Affey to this august House. I will be very brief. If there is an institution that must be reformed in this country after the Judiciary, it should be the Immigration Department, more specifically the unit responsible for the issuance of ID Cards. The way we are about to reform the Judiciary, we must think of how we can reform the Immigration Department, more so the issuance of IDs. The people of northern Kenya, 47 years down the line even under the current Constitution, are day in day out, being discriminated against in the issuance of IDs. They follow a different set of procedures when they want to acquire IDs. Even their Member of Parliament, hon. Dualeâs son or daughter must go through a different procedure from that of hon. Kajwangâ, the Minister of State for Immigration and Registration of Persons. Why do we have double standards? Why do we implement this Constitution differently? The Minister must tell Kenyans why the people of northern Kenya who border Somalia and Ethiopia are treated differently from our colleagues who border Tanzania and our colleagues who
Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to also make my contribution. First, I want to thank hon. Affey for bringing this Motion. When I was a student, it took me two days to get an ID. That was way back in 1985. At that time what was required was a letter from the headmaster and another from the Chief. Currently, the procedure is too long. At that time, IDs were issued at the district level. Currently, forms have to be filled and sent to Nairobi. One is made to wait for six months or one year before getting an ID. We need to be serious when talking about this decentralization. Initially, the issuance of IDs was decentralized but we later on introduced obstacles which are too complicated for the present day Kenyans. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, we need to be serious with the rising population. It seems we are not prepared. Way back, these things were done in an easier way. At the moment when we consider ourselves to be in the computer era, things are done in a hard way. I think we need to be prepared because the population of Kenyans is rising and yet the Government is not prepared to face the challenges. In the new Constitution, Kenyans are allowed to have dual citizenship. A Kenyan who goes outside Kenya will get another passport more readily than the one residing here who will still be struggling to get an ID. That is not fair. We have to be serious and move forward as a country. We need to move in tandem with the global changes. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to support this Motion and say that we need decentralization in order to provide better services to our people.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I want to congratulate Mr. Affey for the great job he has done. He thought about this in advance because when we start work on devolution, we might have problems if we do not have this thing put in order. I also want to thank the Minister because since he took over office in the Ministry of State for Immigration and Registration of Persons, things have really improved. That is the truth of the matter. There has been major improvement in the delivery of IDs. Before, we never used to have an office in Garissa, but now we do. I think it is a good job he is doing. However, the reality of things is that there is categorization of citizens. If you are
Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I would like to thank hon. Affey as my colleagues have done before and also commend the Minister for easing issues. I want to support this Motion. I want the Minister to also read the realities that Kenyans are facing that might have formed the basis for such a Motion. Just about two weeks ago, the Minister was here lamenting that 2 million applications were still lying at the headquarters because of issues of procurement â very simple matters. Above all the 2 million applications that are lying there, there are millions of Kenyans who have even failed to get an opportunity to apply for such an identification card.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, that document is very critical. When the citizenry is gauged depending on whether you have a national identity card or not, then that goes deep down to even say who you are; whether a Kenyan or not. Decentralization will give the counties the opportunity to prioritise their needs. One among them is the issuance of identity cards to those who qualify.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, we are talking of budgetary constraints. Every time and again, we come complaining about identification cards. The Minister gags us and tell us that it is the failure of Treasury to release money. I cannot offer more than this. If this opportunity was given to the counties, then we would not be complaining about the national budget. Counties would have an opportunity to make sure that those who attain the age of 18 years are able to get an identification card.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I know that issues of security, authenticity and identification will come into the fore. Sometimes, I wonder what is wrong with the Government. The Government invests in a person in primary education, pays the fees for
I will now call upon the Minister to respond. Are you giving Dr. Wekesa one minute? Okay.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I did summarize the contributions from my colleagues which I have handed to the Minister. But, first of all, I want to concur with my colleagues. I want to congratulate hon. Affey for bringing this Motion which has been supported by many of the previous speakers. Secondly, I want to congratulate the Minister for taking his job very seriously. This is one Minister that I know has travelled to all corners of this country. He has been to Suam at the border of Uganda and Kenya. He was there with me. He has been to the borders of Tanzania, Ethiopia and everywhere. He is really doing his job properly.
I think this Minister is only crying for one thing which has come from the Floor; that if all hon. Members can support him in getting his Budget to the level that he can now use the technology that we have here--- We have the fibre optic and we are now developing the e-government. With all these facilities in technology, if the Minister gets the right amount of money, this is doable. I just want to identity myself with the mood of the House that this should be done.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, let me apologise for not having been here on time. I had something that held me and I thought my Assistant Minister was here but he was not. I am very sorry.
Let me start by saying that I agree with the general sentiments that the issuance of identity cards should be something that is done at the grassroots and that it is a right. Let me start with the history about the issuance of identity cards. I remember that I received my first identity card, the one which used to look like a driving licence in 1974 when I was in class. It took me about ten or 15 minutes to get the identity card. I used it until the first generation identity card came. When we issued the second generation identity card,
Minister, you have a few minutes.
Let me put it this way; this Motion is good. The only little thing that is a problem with it is the mechanism of doing things for the time being. When we go to the third generation IDs what will happen is this: We will capture your data where you are, your photograph, name and whatever else, and then your form will be put in computer. It will be transferred electronically to the headquarters. The ID will be produced simultaneously. In fact, just because of transporting it back to you it might take some time. However, between the time you are registered and the time your ID is produced, it may not be 24 hours. So we are going to revolutionize the issuance of IDs. It will not be a problem anymore. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, later when we get a little more money and we put systems in place in every district, we will be able to print your ID at the district. This is because we will be able to check the information at the headquarters. It will come back within seconds and tell us that you have not registered before, and so you can be registered. I have seen this happen in many places where we have gone for benchmarking and so on. So, it can be done. I do not want to limit the vision that this Motion has, because it is achievable. It can be done. It is just a matter of equipping our headquarters and equipping our districts. The only thing that I do not think it says, and I do not want it to be imported, is that each county can register its own people in exclusion. We must check at a central data base whether you are a Kenyan or not, whether you have registered before, whether you have lied before or whether you have been a refugee before. So those things can be checked at the headquarters. However, producing an ID card will be done even at the district headquarters. Thank you.
Can we have the Mover?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, because of the interest in this matter I will give Mr. Yakub two minutes and then I can continue.
I hope you realize we have only five minutes left!
Asante sana, Madam Spika wa Muda. Nitajaribu nichukue dakika mbili tu.
Mwanzo, ninaunga mkono Hoja hii iliyoletwa na Bw. Affey na ningependa kumfahamisha Waziri ambaye amejaribu sana kurekebisha haswa ofisi ya kupata cheti cha kusafiria--- Ukiangalia Sura ya 14(1) ambayo inaeleza wazi kwamba ikiwa mwenye kuomba kitambulisho ni Mkenya, basi mmoja kati ya wazazi inatosheleza yeye kupate kitambulisho. Sura ya 12(1)(b) kuhusu cheti cha kusafiria katika Katiba mpya inaeeleza kwamba ni haki ya kila Mkenya kupata. Lakini ningependa kumfahamisha Waziri kwamba kwetu Pwani, shida hii ni ya ajabu. Mkenya akienda kuomba kitambulisho, huambiwa apeleke cheti chake cha kuzaliwa, cha babake na cha babu, kadi ya sindano,shahada ya shule, hati ya nyumba naleseni ya kufanya biashara kutokana na
Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I just want to thank the Minister and all my colleagues. This Motion has received contribution from 17 hon. Members and all of them, with one voice, have said that it is the right way to go. If we do not go this way, then there is a possibility, as hon. Members have said, that we can deny millions of Kenyans an opportunity to register as Kenyans. What we want to do is for the Minister and his staff to change their mindset and the policy and treat Kenyans as Kenyans because the problem is the mindset!
If there is a feeling that a section or part of this country is registering foreigners, target it and do not target the whole country in the hope of solving a problem that we have in one part of the country. I know if you decentralize this service in Coast, north eastern and all parts of Kenya properly, then many Kenyans will be registered. There is always a challenge, as you have already said. Challenges will arise but the Minister should not use them to deny Kenyans an opportunity to acquire an identity card. Because the Minister has said that he will do it; because the House has approved this with one voice; I know the Committee on the Implementation of the Constitution will now pick up this--- If it is a question of money, then the Minister should tell us that that is the problem. He should tell us that it is not the mindset, it is not the policy but it is only the resources and we will find the resources whether by the Government or by friends. However, this is a good thing for the country and we should implement it within the next six months so that before the next general election, the millions of applications we have here are processed and Kenyans are able to participate in these elections. With those few remarks, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move.
Hon. Members, that concludes the business on the Order Paper. Therefore, the House stands adjourned until this afternoon at 2.30 p.m.
The House rose at 12.30 p.m.