Hon. Members, as you are aware Article 171(2)(h) of the Constitution provides for the membership of the Judicial Service Commission (JSC) as including; one woman and one man to represent the public, not being lawyers, appointed by the President with the approval of the National Assembly. A letter from the Office of the Permanent Secretary to the Cabinet and Head of the Public Service, dated 21st July, 2011 reads “The National Assembly has been advised that following the resignation of Bishop Anthony Muheria from the JSC and after consultations between His Excellency the President and the Right Hon. Prime Minister, His Excellency the President has nominated Rev. Dr. Samuel Kobia to take up the vacant position of Commissioner in the JSC.” His name has accordingly been forwarded to the National Assembly in accordance with Article 171(2)(h) of the Constitution.
Hon. Members, I direct that the name of Rev. Dr. Samuel Kobia and the accompanying Curriculum Vitae (CV) be forwarded to the Constitutional Implementation Oversight Committee (CIOC) for consideration prior to the approval by the House. The CIOC is subsequently hereby directed to table its report on this matter on or before Tuesday, 2nd August, 2011.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notices of the following Motions:-
to ask the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security:- (a) Is the Minister aware that armed bandits raided manyatta s at Pejelo in Laisamis and drove away over 2,800 goats to a neighbouring district on 13th June, 2011? (b) What steps has the Government taken to ensure that the stolen livestock is recovered?
Is Mr. Lekuton not here? Is he out of the country on Parliamentary business or Committee work in the country?
asked the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security:- (a) whether he could upgrade Mutomo Police Station to a Police Division and post an OCPD to serve Mutomo and Ikutha districts, with an area of 12,500 square kilometers and a population of 180,000 people; (b) whether he could also upgrade Mutha Police Post, Athi Police Post and Ikutha district headquarters to police stations; and, (c) whether he could establish police posts in Ikanga, Kamutei, Kituti (Mwangeni), Kanziko and Kasaala centres.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to apologise for my absence yesterday and I got your message.
Fair enough! Proceed!
I beg to reply.
(a) Mutomo Police Station has already been upgraded to a police division, that is, Mutomo Police Division. It is standard practice that once it is upgraded to a division that an Officer Commanding Police Department (OCPD) be deployed. Therefore, an OCPD will be deployed to the new division as soon as possible.
(b) Mutha Police Post was upgraded to a police station vide Gazette Notice No.3946 (CXIII) on 25th April, 2011 and an Officer Commanding Station (OCS) by the name Chief Inspector Jackson Lolmodoni was posted. Athi Police Post is yet to be upgraded.
(c) Additional police facilities will be established within Kitui County when funds and land are made available along with other counties in Kenya.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank the Assistant Minister because, first of all, as we talk, an Officer Commanding Police Divisions (OCPD) has already been identified for Mutomo and posted there. Similarly, Ikutha has been upgraded to a police station and an inspector has been posted there. I want to thank the Assistant Minister and also draw his attention to the fact that, that is a very vast area. It has some instances of banditry through the national park and Kitui South Game Reserve. Therefore, additional facilities would be useful. May I also say that, as the DDC, we have identified land for various stations as requested. Could he then assure us that since we have identified the land, he will establish the requested police stations and police posts?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes, we could look at that request and when we get resources--- Recently, we upgraded 37 police divisions. We moved from 108 divisions to 147 within a very short time. So, we will consider his request.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to join my colleague and thank the Assistant Minister for deploying an OCPD. That is because part of my constituency also falls under Kitui South. But my only concern is with police administration. You deploy an officer without a vehicle and the necessary equipment to do the work. As we speak now, banditry activities are taking place in Kitui South. Constituency-wise, the area is in Mutito. It is called Voo. Police officers cannot access that area because of lack of vehicles. What is the Assistant Minister doing to ensure that his officers are equipped to deal with that type of crime?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we will continue to control crime using the current limited resources. I must say that in this financial year, through the support of this Parliament, we have been able to get a budgetary provision of Kshs1 billion for police vehicles. We will prioritize those areas once the Exchequer releases are given, so that we can control the situation.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. My question was very clear. Is he in order not to commit himself on the issue of a police vehicle for the OCPD who has been transferred to Mutomo? That way, he will stop using the vehicle for Endau which is in Mutito Constituency?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will make every effort to ensure that all OCPDs have vehicles, including the one who is reporting to that station this weekend.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think the main challenge of that area has been banditry. If the Assistant Minister could assure me that he will send additional staff and equipment as indicated by my colleague--- I am talking in terms of vehicles for Ikutha, Mutomo and corresponding fuel. That way, the staff will be facilitated to be effective in their work.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is true that with the gazettement now, and realizing that Mutha borders Tana River, it is imperative that the necessary resources will be provided to the police officers, together with additional staff.
asked the Minister for Medical Services:- (a) how many medical doctors have been trained to manage victims of sexual violence under the National Guidelines on Management of Sexual Violence in Kenya; (b) whether there is a protocol between the Ministry of Medical Services and the Judiciary for special court attendance by doctors during hearing of cases involving sexual and gender-based violence; and, (c) how many Government doctors are available to attend to victims of sexual abuse in Nairobi. Before the Minister responds, I just want to find out the following:- Last week, there is a Question that was dropped and yet, I was away on parliamentary duty. I am asking whether it can be reinstated.
Order! Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona, you have been in this House for well over three years now, and you understand the procedure. That is not part of business to be transacted in the House today. So, you know how to approach Mr. Speaker or the Chair. Proceed, Mr. Minister!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) Management of sexual violence is not a training specialty in Kenya. Victims of sexual violence in Kenya are managed by doctors and their support staff - that is nurses, clinical officers, laboratory technicians, medical social workers and clinical pathologists - to whom they present themselves at health facilities. The national guidelines for management of sexual violence have been disseminated to all health facilities for health workers to acquaint themselves with, and to refer to when managing victims of sexual violence. However, certain cadres of health workers have professional training to manage certain aspects of sexual violence. The numbers we have in the country are summarized as follows:- (a) We have 7,745 medical officers who manage physical injury. We have 224 obstetricians and gynecologists who manage physical injury. As far as psycho trauma is concerned, we have 77 psychiatrists managing it. The handling of specimens is done by the 25 pathologists that we have in the country. That makes a total of 7,571 medical professionals who handle various aspects of sexual violence. (b)There is no protocol between the Ministry of Medical Services and the Judiciary for special court attendance by doctors during hearing of cases involving sexual and gender-based violence. However, doctors testify in courts on cases involving victims that they have attended to. You realize that it is the duty of every citizen in Kenya that when you are summoned to a court of law, you are duty bound to attend such courts. (c) Given the mobility of doctors into and out of Nairobi, including the capacity of doctors to work in more than one town, it is not possible to state the number of doctors available
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first of all, I would like to say that I am very concerned that the Minister, first, did not supply me with a written answer, and I can see why. It is because he has set up a very good Question and answered it. I am not the one who asked the Question he is answering. The reason is because he has given me several numbers of doctors who are available in the country, when my Question is very specific. I have asked how many medical doctors have been trained to manage victims of sexual violence under the national guidelines on management. He has totally evaded that Question; he has not answered it. On part “c”, he has evaded it and given me a long story about Nairobi Hospital. He knows there is only one doctor called Dr. Kamau in Nairobi who handles cases of children who are sexually abused. They cannot handle that from the figures. So, I do not know whether I would be in order to request that the Minister goes back and gives me a proper answer. That is because I am totally dissatisfied with the answer that he has given.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not think I will give the hon. Member any different answer because, as far as I can follow, the Question is very clearly answered. When the hon. Member asked how many medical doctors have been trained to manage victims of sexual violence, I told her that sexual violence is not a specialty in Kenya. Nonetheless, there are doctors who attend to sexual violence precisely because those guidelines have been sent to them and the hon. Member knows that the Ministry---
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am not talking about whether sexual violence is a specialty in Kenya, unless we are saying that Kenyan men are weird. There is no country which can say that sexual violence is a specialty. What I am asking the Minister--- There are very clear guidelines that I was even a party to developing with the Ministry of Medical Services, and doctors are meant to be trained. What the Government did was to take those guidelines and keep them, instead of training the doctors about them. What I am asking is: How many doctors have you trained under those guidelines. So, I am not asking about an overall figure of how many doctors are available in Kenya, and whether Kenyans are specialized in sexual abuse.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, quite rightly said! Indeed, I said that the guideline for sexual violence--- In fact, the Ministry has gone further and written very detailed instructions and further guidelines to doctors that the Ministry believes should be involved in dealing with sexual violence. Those are psychiatrists, pathologists, obstetricians, gynecologists and medical officers. There is no need training doctors who are oncologists for sexual violence because they will never be in a position to deal with sexual violence as oncologists. But, indeed, psychiatrists, pathologists, obstetricians and gynecologists will be relevant in dealing with sexual violence. In this particular case of professional qualifications, the Ministry has gone---
Order, Mr. Minister! Proceed! It is the business of the Chair to know who is interfering!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, apparently, hon. Members have answers. So, if they do, then I do not need to stand here and give it. I was telling the hon. Member that, indeed, I agree with her that there is no course, at least, in Kenya for specifically treating sexual violence. But we know that we have qualified doctors and medical professionals in the Ministry and various hospitals who should attend to sexual violence, and to whom those guidelines should be sent so that in those specific cases, they could handle these people and women effectively and competently. Indeed, it would be callous of me as the Minister not to pay attention to sexual violence. It would be equally callous for me to send guidelines to people who will not use them professionally. So, when I give the hon. Member the professionals in the Ministry to whom guidelines have been sent, and who have been directed to make sure that they deal with sexual violence as per the guidelines that the hon. Member was involved in drawing, then we have performed our duty. Thank you!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, considering the gravity of the problem of sexual violence in the country and the fact that most of the times it is the very vulnerable groups that tend to be victims of sexual violence; could the Minister consider waiving P3 forms application fees for victims of sexual violence?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is an issue that had been extensively discussed in the Ministry and I do agree with the hon. Member that fees should be waived for victims of sexual violence. However, there are times and, indeed, very frequently, when the police are involved as they should. I do not know what the legal requirements are regarding who determines when P3 forms should be paid for or not. This is where boundaries in Government are very important, but as far as the Ministry of Medical Services is concerned, we do feel that once there has been an attack of sexual violence, indeed, there should be no encumbrance whatsoever in trying to access help.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You heard the hon. Minister say that he does not know who asks for pay for P3 forms, but he must know that in cases of actual bodily harm, grievous bodily harm, attempted rape, rape and indecent assault, the police issue P3 forms free. But when they are presented by the legal personnel for filling, that is where they are asked to pay between Kshs300 to Kshs500. Is it in order for the Minister to say that he does not know where this is paid?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am grateful for hon. Olago. Of course, that is how he earns his keeping, definitely. In that case, hon. Member, we do not pay to the police, but we shall approach his profession to waive the fees.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to congratulate the Minister for reminding the hon. Members that the issue of sexual offences does not require any specialty. In their curricular, all doctors are prepared to handle that adequately. But having said that, the challenge why patients or rather victims of sexual offences are frustrated, is because of lack of logistics in terms of not having enough doctors to attend to these patients in time; usually preferably the first one hour. Secondly, when those doctors eventually attend to these patients, by the time the matter comes up in court, the doctor who attended the case in Kakamega, for
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am really grateful to the hon. Member’s contribution. We are caught between the rock and the hard place. On the one hand, we do realize a need to train more personnel to handle more cases in the medical sector and on the other hand, we do not receive enough budgetary resources to do so. Indeed, just this morning, I was at a spinal injury hospital discussing with the Medical Superintendent the cases of trauma in that hospital and what we can do to improve services to those who are traumatized, including sexual violence victims. We have tried as much as possible to develop a programme with the University of Maryland, so that they can also help us with training gratis. We do hope that when this programme takes off we shall get more people trained in trauma, and sexual violence is one of the trauma cases, so that we can get more in the field. But in the meantime, to give doctors stipend for their work will depend on better budgetary allocation to the Ministry. As you know, from last year to this year, we have not received a single cent for training.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to follow up where hon. Khalwale left, particularly, where doctors are involved so much in cases of sexual violence and their time is taken in the corridors of courts. We are in one Government and need to have a protocol in place; where the Judiciary will ensure that there are specific courts that will address such issues. This will facilitate very easily the doctors when they appear for cases of sexual violence. What will the Minister do to make sure that, that protocol is in place for easy facilitation of these cases?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will remember that one of the recommendations that the team that worked on guidelines had was that we should have special courts to try sexual violence cases. This is something that we, in the Ministry, are for and I think the Judiciary should accept. I do believe that one of the reform measures that are going to be taken as the Judiciary gets reformed is to have special courts for sexual violence. In as much as in police stations there has been an attempt to have special facilities to deal with victims of sexual violence. That should be reciprocated in courts, so that there are special courts that deal with this. In fact, as my friend, hon. Olago, would agree, there should be judges in courts that are specifically focused on dealing with sexual violence as an offence.
Last question, Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to table a report by The Cradle, The Children Foundation called “ Healing the Scars; Milestones, Lessons andProspects ” which is monitoring cases on violence against children for 2010. That report quotes the police report at page 23, which shows that cases of rape, defilement and incest against children are on the rise, including unnatural offences, bestiality, indecent assault and abduction. Also, even at page 24, using The Cradle’s own reports over the years, the figures have been increasing every year. As at 2010 it stands at 81 per cent of cases of children who are sexually abused.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, since I was involved in founding The Cradle in 1997 to date, we have been saying one story; that there is one doctor called Mr. Kamau. Everybody in the sector knows. He cannot handle all the cases of sexual abuse, especially against children. So, most of the children are never examined. So, people who sexually abuse children go scot-free because we only have Dr. Kamau. What can the Minister do to just add another Dr. Njoroge or Dr. Otieno or Dr. Ligale or whatever the name, to deal with cases of people abusing children?
Hon. Odhiambo-Mabona, to begin with, you cannot lay a paper. You table a paper when you have a problem with the Minister. For the given sake, the Minister is not aware. So, it is like you are substantiating. What is it that you are substantiating that the Minister said he is not aware of?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, what I am substantiating is that the Minister said that there are several doctors when there are none. This report is actually saying that there is only one, that is, Dr. Kamau.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, can I, therefore, table the document?
( Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona laid the document on the Table)
The Minister has said that the offence itself is segregated in a manner that the medical field and trained doctors competently deal with it. There is the physical, gynecological and psychiatric effect of it. Another medical doctor in the House said that there is no special training for this. So, the issue can only be that of understaffing in the sense that there are no enough trained doctors. This is something they are trained in the medical field, unless you have evidence to prove that, that is not right. Proceed.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with regard to this one, I am the expert. I have worked on this issue since 1997. I am the expert. I was the one who drafted the Sexual Offences Act. I would like to tell you that any doctor can receive children. But only one Dr. Kamau handles cases of sexual violence.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the hon. Member in order to suggest that she is an expert in this, while I am a pediatrician and, in the course of training as a pediatrician, you are also trained on the issues of sexual offences on children? Most pediatricians, if not all, are trained experts on the sexual offences issues. Is the Member in order?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I will say and if there is a panel that can examine us, I am willing to subject myself to it. I am more of an expert than Dr. Eseli. I have trained internationally, locally and have expertise on this issue, but do I say?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am willing to be subjected to the same panel, and I would like to inform the Member that I am also trained internationally.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I bow to the expertise of my two colleagues. That is why hon. Odhiambo-Mabona was involved in drawing of those regulations. However, I said, with due respect to my dear friend, hon. Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona, that we do recognize the shortage of those who specialize in special violence, notwithstanding the fact that they are medical professionals. It is in that regard that we have recognized sexual violence as one of the trauma cases. We, in the Ministry, have isolated trauma as an area where we need focus and we are developing a programme with the University of Maryland, which has one of the best trauma centers in the world, to ensure that we cover the whole spectrum of trauma, including and up to spinal surgery, which is still not done in this country. This is a very serious subject. I agree with my friend. I was only stating facts as they are, nothing extenuate, to ensure that we are reading from the same page. Lacking specialties like Dr. Kamau, we decided that the best thing was to disseminate those guidelines to as many doctors as possible because women or children who are sexually violated will report to the nearest health facility and they will need to get people who know the guidelines and who can help, if only on a first aid basis.
Order! Hon. Members, you will see from your Order Paper today that we have the Prime Minister’s Time. That is supposed to commence at 3.00 p.m. Consequently, Question No.950 by Peter Kiilu, Question No.983 by hon. Benjamin Langat, Question No.944 by Silas Ruteere, Question No.976 by hon. Muturi Mwangi, Question No.979 by David Koech and Question No.1023 by David Njuguna are all deferred to Tuesday and Wednesday next week. They will appear in the order that the Chair has read them. They will assume the priority over other Questions.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I would like to inform you that next week, I will not be in the House. I will be out of the country on parliamentary business. Could my Question be reschedule to the week after?
Fair enough! It is rescheduled to the week after. Any preference on a day?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Tuesday.
Fair enough! It is so directed. We are still on Question Time. We have not moved to the next Order. Proceed, Mr. Chachu Ganya.
asked the Prime Minister:- What concrete action is the Government taking to provide relief assistance and save the lives of the millions of Kenyans affected by drought/famine following the declaration of drought as a national disaster by the President on 30th May 2011, considering that drought emergency intervention requires an effective multi-sectoral approach?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Question happens to be the subject of what I will talk about in my Statement. So, I assume that the issues raised in the Question will be answered in the Statement.
So, you are convinced that it will be answered in the Ministerial Statement?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, once again, I stand before this House to explain the situation with regard to drought and famine ravaging our country. I, particularly, want to highlight what the Government has done and will continue to do. I stand to categorically state that if the Government had not acted with speed and organization that it has so far, this country and region would be staring at a worse crisis than it is being witnessed today. The entire Horn of Africa is afflicted by drought believed to be the most severe in more than half a century. In my statement today, I shall review the Government action to address the humanitarian crisis, the refugee’s situation and the national security. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, more than 9 million people in the Horn of Africa (in six countries) now live within desperate hunger. That humanitarian crisis is compounded by high global food prices and insecurity. The situation in Somalia has also major and direct implications
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank the Prime Minister for a very detailed response to this major crisis facing Kenyans. I also want to salute our Government for taking the refugee issue very seriously, because this is a human crisis and as good neighbours we have to do our bit. The issue of drought is a major crisis that has been recurring again and again. I also want to thank the Prime Minister and the President for the attention they have given this issue for the last three years. I think both of them have been in the northern part of Kenya trying to see what they can do as a Government to assist the Kenyans who have been facing this major crisis for quite some time.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while I appreciate the Prime Minister’s response and what the Government has done so far, I can testify to you that as a leader of that region that this has been happening. The issue of supporting the livestock sector, in particular providing strategic water points for our livestock to save the livelihoods of the pastoralists, has not been done well enough. It is true that the food rations have been doubled and people are getting food. However, it is not just about saving lives; it is about saving the livelihoods of these pastoralists, so that after this drought, they will have a livelihood to support them and not be dependent on food aid. We need support for the livestock sector in terms of strategic water points drilled as well as providing hay to areas that are worst affected.
In addition, I also request the Prime Minister to look at the issue of providing water to schools; we are really concerned because most of our schools might not be re-opened in early September because some of them have actually been closed down due to lack of water. If that situation is allowed to persist, we may not have students back in school in third term.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I seek your indulgency because there is an issue I want to raise with the Prime Minister, and I want him to listen carefully. The refugee problem is now with us and will be with us for a long time unless we do something. The Somali situation requires the Kenya Government to do something and not to sit and watch people suffering and crossing our border daily because of suffering and insecurity. This insecurity has been there for over 20 years and we are going to bear the burden of people who are illiterate and poor robbing the whole country and causing insecurity. Last month, we lost 15 elephants in the Maasai Mara and five rhinos, and they are preying on our wildlife because they are poor.
So, it is a situation that the Kenya Government must address; if we do not stabilise Somalia, then we will always have problems in this country. I am suggesting that the Kenya Government commits funds in our Budget and ensures that all the Somali children go to school, because they must be educated. They must be helped. The insecurity problem must be addressed by the Kenya Government and we have the international community to help us. Other countries in Africa should be part and parcel of the problem of Somalia; we need to solve it once and for all.
I am asking the Government of Kenya today that it is time that we do not sit back and watch people suffering and dying. I tried to register them when I was the Minister for
Hon. Members, I understand we are working within our own rules. This is a statement which has been given and so you seek clarifications. Given the sensitivity of the matter, the Chair is prepared to give a leeway for certain suggestions, but we cannot turn it into a debate; you should not go on making a speech.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while appreciating the statement given by the Prime Minister, I would like him to inform the House what the Government is doing in terms of air lifting food and medicine to the malnourished and dying people in North Eastern Province.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I come from one of the areas which is most affected by drought. What surprises me is that we are living in a country where one part has drought and the other part has a lot of maize. However, the same Government has refused to buy this maize. It leaves it to millers who end up buying and exporting the maize while on the other hand, the Government at all times is ready to import maize. What is the Government doing to ensure it buys maize locally and put it in the Strategic Grain Reserves (SGR)?
Secondly, Mr. Prime Minister, you have been in Government for the last ten years and you know very well that this problem has been recurring. The Coalition Government is unable to come up with sustainable methods of ensuring that these droughts do not catch Kenyans with their pants down.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I understand the desperation with which the Government is trying to alleviate the suffering of people through the drought and starvation. I would like the Prime Minister to clarify whether sentiments that have been in the air for the last several weeks that the Government in trying to alleviate this problem wants to import GMO maize into the country is real or these are falsified information?
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. First of all, I would want to thank the Prime Minister for the Statement he has given. I also want to thank the Government. The last time the Prime Minister raised this issue, I raised a concern about raising the ban on omena fishing which the Government did. I was asked by the Abasuba people to thank the Prime Minister for the action they took.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to inform the Prime Minister that the Suba people and Gwassi Constituency, which hon. Mbadi represents, and which is the food basket of Suba, have said that crop production has failed completely. What is the Government doing to take care of the people of Suba, Mbita and Gwassi constituencies?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Chachu Ganya has, of course, appreciated the efforts that the Government is putting in order to address this situation. However, he has said that the actions have not been sufficient, particularly with regard to livestock and supply of water to schools. I may agree with hon. Chachu that, that maybe true but there are some reasons for it. We are dealing with a large area which is sparsely populated and majority of the people are pastoralists. As you know, pastoralists wander with their livestock in search of pasture. Sometimes you find pasture in an area where there is no water.
Order, hon. Members! Proceed, the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this situation is so grave and I do not understand how hon. Members could be consulting so loudly when we are talking about lives of human beings. Our view has been that we put a screening point at the border so that we can be able to screen these people as they come. If this is done, we will be able to differentiate those who require immediate medical attention and shelter from the suspected criminals. This is because there are also criminals – the members of the Al Shabab – who take advantage of this situation to come into our country and cause insecurity. That will be dealt with at the border. That is why I directed that a screening point be put at the border to be able to do the screening there. The hon. Member went further to ask whether we should put some money in our budget for the education of children in Somalia. We would have loved nothing less than that. However, the way things stand right now, we do not even have sufficient funds for our own education. We do not even have sufficient funds for hiring additional teachers in our country. We are suffering and that is why we are saying that the way things stand, we are already paying more than our fair
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the Prime Minister in order to evade answering my question? I did not ask about the merits and demerits of importing GMO maize. My question was very specific and that will be a discussion for another day. I want to know whether the Government, which wants to alleviate the issue of food insecurity, has okayed the importation of GMO maize. The answer is either a straight “Yes” or “No”.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member is asking an obvious question because that matter has been in the public domain for a long time. It was reported after the Cabinet meeting that the Cabinet had sanctioned the importation of GMO food on condition that it will be tested by the National Bio-Safety Authority that is designated by law to do so. The GMO maize will only be imported by millers who will take it to their warehouses, mill it and sell it as flour so that it does not find its way into the market as seeds.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Last week, the Assistant Minister for Environment and Mineral Resources who is here gave us an undertaking that no GMO maize will be imported into this country until it is approved. As of Thursday last week, she confirmed that there was no GMO maize that had been imported at all. Could the Prime Minister clarify whether that is the Government position or that was just the position of the Assistant Minister?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is no contradiction between what the Assistant Minister said and what I have said. She said that no GMO food has been imported and that is a fact. No GMO food has been imported into the country as I speak now. However, I talked about the condition which has been attached to the importation of GMO food; that is, it will have to be tested and certified by the National Bio-Safety Authority when it comes. This House passed the biodiversity law which is an Act of Parliament. I do not see why there should be any contradiction at all over this issue.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Prime Minister talked about compassion. Hon. Members will remember that Somalia refugees who are in this country are here courtesy of the UN Convention on Refugees which Kenya is a signatory. A Minister of the Government of the Prime Minister and President Mwai Kibaki is on record as having said that all those refugees should be relocated to Somalia so that the Kenyan Government can feed them from there. I would like the Prime Minister to confirm whether, indeed, this is the official position of his Government and allay our fears that the reason we see emaciated and dehydrated young Somalia refugee children dying is because the Government is not too keen on taking care of them as evidenced by what that Minister said. Finally, Mr. Prime Minister, is the Chairman of the Cabinet Sub-Committee on Food Security. The issue of food shortage is not only limited to the people who live in the arid and semi-arid areas. Even Kenyans are finding it difficult to access food because of the high prices. What has the Prime Minister done as the Chair of that Committee to ensure that the cost of food and foodstuffs is brought down?
Order, hon. Members! When a matter of the lives of Kenyans and refugees, who are our fellow African brothers is being discussed and this House goes into the
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Recently, members from the northern parts of Kenya and other drought-affected areas had audience with His Excellency the President. We requested five water bowsers each per constituency but they were reduced to two water bowsers per constituency. Does the Prime Minister have any information on how far the implementation of this programme has gone?
Yes, the Member for Tharaka!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, most of the times when we talk about drought in this country, Kenyans’ minds is driven towards maize and therefore, we create maize shortage in this country. Quite a number of crops also grow in this country, including green grams, sorghum and even millet. What has the Government done to make sure that these crops are also promoted to a level that Kenyans also appreciate that they are food that also need to be eaten other than maize whenever there is drought?
Yes, the Member for Machakos Town!
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. In fact, it is a great shame that Kenyans are still facing famine 50 years after Independence. Every two to three years, the Government has to be fire-fighting because some sections of Kenyans are suffering from famine. What has the Government done to subsidize fertilizer prices as well as give free inputs to those poor farmers and also assure them of good prices and market for their produce?
Yes, Mr. Kiuna!
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Could the Prime Minister tell us the measures the Government has taken because already, we are aware of the problem that the people of northern Kenya are facing because of drought? These people are also Kenyans. We would like to assist our brothers from the Somali tribe. However, as much we would like to assist them, what has the Government done to make sure that it has petitioned the United Nations (UN) Security Council to intervene and create a no-go zone within Somaliland so that the international community can start feeding our Somali brothers who are starving and are crossing our border on a daily basis; that is over 1,000 of them? What measures has the Government taken to request the UN, Kenya representative to intervene and help it?
Yes, Mr. Lessonet!
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I would like the Prime Minister to tell us whether he can take personal responsibility for this menace of drought in Kenya, especially this year. Could he tell us exactly how many Kenyans does he want to wait for them to die in order for this Government to start reacting on a very serious note?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for Mr. Lessonet to ask the Prime Minister to take personal responsibility? What is so personal about drought? This is because I cannot remember reading anywhere that drought can be caused by an individual. So, what personal responsibility can an individual take?
Yes, Dr. Laboso? Do you want to stand or do you want to sit?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to stand. It is openly claimed that the reason why we have the current huge shortage of maize is because our maize was taken to our good neighbours, Southern Sudan. I want the Prime Minister to clarify whether this information is true and, if so, what has the Government done to ensure that we do not feed our neighbours at the expense of Kenyans who are now starving because they have nothing to eat?
I think the Prime Minister will probably take one more on this round.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. While we appreciate what the Government has done about this problem and the assurance the Government has given that it will contain the problem within two or so years, there are already reports being acknowledged even by the UN that the main reason why we are having this serious drought in the Horn of Africa is as a result of climatic change, and specifically global warming. The countries responsible for this are specifically the industrialized countries. They are actually the ones responsible for this situation in the Horn of Africa. What has the Government also done to sensitize the world and also urge the rich industrialized countries to take responsibility for the mess they have created amongst the poor of the world who are least positioned to cope with the situation?
The Rt. hon. Prime Minister, can you respond to those requests for clarification?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Dr. Khalwale alleged that a Minister of the Government has stated that the refugees should return to Somalia. I do not remember, but if it has happened, that was a personal view from the Minister. That is not the policy of this Government. This Government has never said that the refugees should return back to Somalia. Return back to what? There is no government and food in the Somalia side. So, if you say that these people should go back to Somalia, you are actually asking them to go back to their sure death. So, that is not the policy of this Government. That is the policy of an individual and we will say that it is very irresponsible, indeed!
About the high prices of food, first, let me say that the high prices of food are caused by shortage because of the long drought and poor harvest. Secondly, it is caused by the high cost of fuel which is occasioned by the crisis that we are experiencing in the Middle East. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thirdly, they are caused by the high prices of food in the international market. This is a situation that is not likely to be resolved very easily or soon, because of a number of other factors which have changed on the international market. Other countries that we call the emerging economies have become more affluent and, therefore, consume more and more. That is the reason why there is much higher demand on the international market than the supply. Having said that, we are very concerned about this and that is the reason why the Government waived the duty on imported maize, so that it could be imported cheaply. When it arrives here cheaply, we expect that the cost of the milled maize flour will be cheaper. Likewise, the same thing will apply with wheat as well as rice. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the other good news is that other parts of the country are already harvesting. The Government is already buying maize from the farmers at the market
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is now evident that the issues of importation of the yellow GMO maize, power rationing and fuel shortage in this country only occur as we approach the general elections. Could the Prime Minister confirm whether this is a ploy by some individuals within the Government to raise funds for their presidential campaigns?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to ask for a small clarification. The Prime Minister is aware that due to the prolonged drought, we have total crop failure in most of the sectors, especially the maize and coffee growing areas. Most of these farmers had taken loans from the Agricultural Finance Corporation (AFC) and because of the crop failure, most of them will not be able to repay the loans. Could the Government consider writing off these debts? The farmers will not be able to repay the loans with the returns they are going to get from the produce.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in Kenya, we have so many rivers and streams. We also have one of the longest rivers in the name of Tana River, which is almost 700 kilometres and around 410 miles. It runs through almost half of this country through Thika, the Aberdare Mountains, west of Nyeri, Mt. Kenya into the Masinga reserves. It also crosses around Garissa, Hola and Garsen before entering into the Indian Ocean. When will the Prime Minister come up with a prospective irrigation scheme to help the people of Coast Province and Kenyans at large in food security? The Government should come up with a positive irrigation programme. As you all know, rivers are sources of fresh water. When will the Prime Minister come up with a permanent solution in terms of irrigation?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was almost getting worried that you were marginalizing me in the House. First of all, I would like to commend the Prime Minister for his eloquent response. I want to agree that the Government has not taken quick measures to avert this crisis that we are facing. Information in public domain clearly indicates that the Executive and the Cabinet are playing partisan and double standards in all their functions. This is information in the public domain. I would like to observe that when the Minister for Medical Services was speaking here today, he mentioned under-funding in his Ministry. We have also heard about issues of under- funding in other Ministries and this is in the public domain. Is it true that there are partisan politics within the Cabinet? Are they the ones that are making us not to take early measures to avert this kind of crisis? It is clear that the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance underfunds the Ministries whose Ministers do not play his ideology of politics. Is it true that this is happening? When is this going to stop? We have heard these complaints from all the Ministers from the other side.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I recall that in November last year, the Prime Minister issued a Statement predicting that there would be drought in the country. In March this year, through a Supplementary Budget, we passed - I stand to be corrected - about Kshs5 billion to mitigate the situation. Could he tell us how that money has been used? Why is food not reaching the needy especially in Turkana, Samburu, North Eastern, Lamu and other parts of the country where the people are really suffering? Why is the Government not letting the Red Cross, which appears to have the matter at hand, to distribute all the relief food that the Government can muster?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also wish to commend the limited efforts by the Government. They come too little too late in the day. In fact, if you look at the Statement by the Prime Minister, the wording is telling. It is “drought, food security and refugees”. Indeed, the victims of drought who are food insecure are as good as refugees because we do not belong to the Republic of Kenya. Is it true that part of the reason why food is not reaching the needy is because even the directives that your office has given in terms of lead agencies are being ignored by the World Food Programme (WFP) which seems to have a lot of control over the Government? It has even reduced the food that it is giving the Government to distribute. If the Government is in charge of these operations, why is it that for the last three months, there has not been any general food distribution in North Eastern Province and Turkana? Finally, I would like the Prime Minister of the Republic of Kenya to go beyond appealing to our emotions. What long-term solutions are we giving in order for these chronic food deficit areas to be able to grow their own food? Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Let us have the very last one from hon. Wamalwa.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Prime Minister has addressed the plight of refugees from Somalia, but we are aware that we have Kenyan refugees who have been in Uganda for the last three years. What is the Government doing to ensure that we bring back those Kenyans who are refugees in a neighbouring country and that their plight is addressed in the way we are addressing the plight of the Somali refugees?
Yes, the Hon. Prime Minister.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not understand the clarification that was sought by hon. Mbuvi. I was very clear about GMOs. He talked about power rationing and the cost of fuel, but he did not relate them to the subject we are discussing. So, I have not seen the clarification that he was seeking.
The Member for Mathioya---
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Prime Minister to insist that he did not understand hon. Mbuvi? Hon. Mbuvi was very clear on the connection between general elections and the issues we are facing. Is it in order for him not to answer this question yet we are aware that Ministries of one side of the Coalition Government have been given enhanced Budget allocations in the recent Budget, whereas the budgets of the Ministries on the other side of the Coalition Government have been reduced? Take even the case of the National Security Intelligence Service (NSIS), an agency. It has been given over Kshs2.7 billion extra, yet the Strategic Grain Reserve, which is critical in feeding the people of Kenya, has been given only Kshs1 billion. These amounts are meant to be spent in next year’s general election. Is it in order for the Prime Minister to deny the obvious – that there is a scheme by this Government? A lot of money has been lumped in the Ministry of Finance for no reason. Is it because the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance, who is a presidential candidate, wants to use this money for his campaign next year? If that is the case, why can the Government not get the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance out of that Ministry?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the hon. Member to say what he has said against hon. Kenyatta? He has said that with a bad motive.
Proceed, Prime Minister!.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
What is your point of order?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Mbadi is a Member of the Budget Committee, to which I am also a Member. We have scrutinised the Budget but we have not seen anywhere in that Budget an allocation for financing the elections through the NSIS. Is it in order for the hon. Member to mislead this House?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I sit in the Budget Committee. The NSIS is a very important Government agency. They deal with the issue of security for this country. They are entitled to those funds. We made our decision as the Budget Committee. So, the hon. Member should wait until we debate the Budget issue here rather than drag the name of someone into the issue.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for hon. Mbadi to mention my name in such a manner? Unless he is going to substantiate what he has just said, he needs to withdraw the statement.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is no justification for increasing money for the NSIS and giving Kshs1 billion only to the Strategic Grain Reserve. No one else would want to ask for any substantiation. If you are Minister who cares for the welfare of the people who are dying in Turkana, you would have seen that it is important to put more money into the Strategic Grain Reserve.
Order! Order, hon. Mbadi!
Order! Order! Hon. Members, this is the Prime Minister’s Time. It is not time to bring in other debates. Allow the Prime Minister to respond to the clarifications sought.
Order! Order, hon. Members! Order, hon. Nkaisserry! Order, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance! The Chair is the one which is mandated to run the affairs of the House. Can you listen to the Chair? While the Chair mediates and considers the statement of hon. Mbadi, I want the Prime Minister to continue. I will give direction on the same.
Proceed, Prime Minister!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have said that I do not see the link between the subject and the coming elections.
The Member for Mathira has asked about the loans which farmers had taken in anticipation of the Budget and suggested that they be written off. In the past, the Government dealt with issues of farmers’ loans very compassionately. There have been cases where the Government wrote off loans completely, just like in the cases of coffee and tea farmers, and so on. This is an issue which will be raised formally by the Government and it will be considered on a case by case basis.
Hon. Yakub asked about the issue of irrigation. I would like to inform him that if he listened very carefully---
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. There was a question about writing off of Agricultural Finance Corporation (AFC) loans. In his reply, the Prime Minister said that the Government will consider the issue on a case by case basis, while there is a solution of this House, which was passed in 2009, following a Motion that was fully debated, for writing off AFC loans held by farmers. Is the Prime Minister in order to totally disregard the resolution of this House to that effect? Can he indicate as to when the AFC loans will be written off to give reprieve to farmers?
Hon. Wamalwa, was that a Bill or a Private Member’s Motion?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it was a resolution of this House, following a Private Member’s Motion brought by me.
Hon. Wamalwa, the Government is not obligated to implement Private Members’ Motions. What is contained in that Motion is not a Government policy. It is a statement by the Members of the House as to what they feel. Proceed, Prime Minister!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank you for that protection. In any case, as an institution, the AFC must continue to operate. We cannot continue writing off loans indefinitely. It has to be done on a case by case basis.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I would like you to clarify a little further, because building on what you have said, the Prime Minister has now found enough space to assume that what this House decides can be taken for granted. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will remember that we changed the Standing Orders of this House and formed the Implementation Committee because we wanted a situation where everything that is resolved by this House is implemented by the Government. We now have a Prime Minister, who supervises operations of the Government, responding to issues in this House every Wednesday. It is important that he tells us the Government’s position about that particular resolution of the House, because those AFC loans are “killing” our farmers. In fact, those loans are part of the reason as to why we have food insecurity.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are not discussing the Report of the Implementation Committee of the House. When that time comes, we will deal with that. Sheikh Dor wanted to know about the Government programme on irrigation. The hon. Member was here on the Budget Day. He should have heard the kind of funding that the Government has put in irrigation schemes this financial year. When we took over, we found that a number of irrigation schemes had collapsed. We have since revived quite a number of those schemes; namely, Bura, Hola, Mwea, Kano, Ahero and Perkerra. All these have been revived. More importantly, there is quite a bit of effort going on to create new irrigation schemes. Several irrigation schemes are right now under construction. We are making good use of our water resources; the rivers. We need to know that there are other technical issues associated with tapping the river water. For example, if the river is very low down with very high banks, it requires a lot of energy to pump water. Take the example of Tana River. You cannot dam it at Garissa but you can do it lower down where it is flat. I want to assure hon. Members that efforts have been made now to create more and more irrigation schemes and move away from rain fed agriculture in the country generally. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Mr. Kizito talked about politics in the Cabinet that is underlying the allocation of resources among Ministries. I want the hon. Member to know that before the Budget is brought in this House, it is discussed and approved by the Cabinet as a whole. The Cabinet acts as one unit; they are not two. Yes, we are a Coalition Government but we are one Government. In other words, the President is not responsible for one half and the Prime Minister the other. The President and Prime Minister are responsible for the Government as a whole. Therefore, if there is a problem, we will deal with it in the Cabinet. I would, therefore, like to urge hon. Members to look at this as an issue of the Executive. The Executive has the responsibility to prepare the Budget and to implement it. We would like hon. Members to understand this because we have now moved to a new constitutional dispensation. We have never been here before, where there is supposed to be clear separation of powers between the Executive and Legislature. It is important that this Parliament sets a good example and sets precedence that shall be emulated by parliaments that are going to come hereafter. I would like to appeal to the hon. Members when they will be discussing the Cabinet to look at it much more patriotically. Mr. Ethuro talked of too little too late. Mr. Ethuro comes from one of the affected areas. I am sure he will confirm to this House that sufficient effort is being put on this issue of food distribution. He is an old Member and he can confirm that what is being done is different from how it used to be done in the past.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Indeed, I wish to confirm to this House and to the Prime Minister that I come from those areas. Yes, I am a member of the
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, only two months ago, I was in Turkana. In fact, I was in Mr. Ethuro’s constituency. I was in Lodwar. He refused to come with me when I invited him. I addressed a rally in Lodwar Town itself. I was in his constituency after April. Therefore, the hon. Member needs to be more generous with the truth.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I really would not want to engage my good friend, the hon. Prime Minister. However, you see he is inviting me. Where I come from, we do not allow challenges to go unchallenged. I want to confirm that, indeed, the Prime Minister invited me after we brought the Motion on the situation of insecurity in Todonyang’ to this House. The Prime Minister was inviting me past midnight yet I had commitments in this House. He left going to Todonyang’; not on the issue of food security but for the insecurity from the attacks by the Merilles. By the time they arrived at Lodwar, where he is purporting to have held a public rally, it was almost 6.00 p.m. Those are the facts.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I went to Todonyang’. But why did I go Lodwar? I went to Lodwar because that is also my responsibility. That is the reason I was inviting him so that I should not go there without him coming. He would have come and heard what I was told by the people, which is very different from what he is saying. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the information of the House, I am going to table now a list of famine relief food allocation per district for this month of July. I have a similar list for the months of June, May and April. Members can peruse and see the list.
I am saying that every effort is being made by the Government within the means that the Government has. The World Food Programme (WFP) is complementary to our efforts. The International Community of the Red Cross is equally also complementing our efforts. All we are saying is that we are not shunning our responsibilities. We are doing what we can do within the means that we have to deal with this crisis and we will not run away from it. Ms. Karua asked how the Kshs5 billion that was allocated in the Supplementary Estimates for the year was used. That money was used for the purposes it was intended. It was used to deal with the supply to refugees as I have said. The hon. Member was not around when I read my original Statement. I think that the Statement covered that issue sufficiently. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, distribution has been done through the administration. We know that in the past, there have been some abuses in the distribution of food. Efforts have been put in place to plug the loopholes where there have pilferages. Action has been taken against members of the administration who have been abusing this exercise. Mr. Wamalwa wanted to know about refugees in Uganda. The issue of refugees is governed by the UN Convention. Once you leave Kenya and go to Uganda, you become the
Order! Hon. Members, indeed, the Chair is convinced that the Standing Orders of the House must be protected and adhered to. Under our Standing Orders you cannot impute any improper motive on a fellow Member of Parliament without a substantive Motion. Under the circumstances - the statement by hon. Mbadi said: “Is it because the Minister for Finance is a Presidential candidate that he has allocated-”. Indeed, you can question any allocation anywhere, but for you to discuss the conduct of an hon. Member of this House without a Substantive Motion, that is grossly out of order.
Hon. Mbadi, under the circumstances, you will have to withdraw and apologize.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, to the extent of my statement appearing like I was discussing the conduct of hon. Kenyatta, I withdraw and apologize.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. As per the Order Paper, the Prime Minister is supposed to deliver two Statements. He has not issued a Statement on the delivery of National Identity Cards and Voter Registration.
Indeed, we actually had timed the Prime Minister’s Time and the Chair has taken note of that.
Yes, Mr. Prime Minister!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, initially, it was supposed to be one and I had said that I will deliver this other one next week.
Precisely! It has to be delivered. The Rt. hon. Prime Minister has undertaken to do this next week. So, it is so directed.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You will recall that, yesterday, you directed that today, the Prime Minister also uses this opportunity to address the issue of the arrest of the 34 activists. Since, we have run out of time, probably, you can make a clear directive, so that Kenyans can know how the Government is going to respond on this particular matter and when.
Although the Prime Minister was not in the House to give an undertaking on the same, it is the assumption of the Chair that the Deputy Leader of Government
Hon. Kimunya was on the Floor contributing on the amendment, and he had seven minutes left.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, indeed, I was on the Floor opposing the amendment that had been brought by hon. Mbadi, which attempts to do the budgeting for the Government and determine where the priorities are. It attempts to allocate money to the police while taking away from the National Security Intelligence Service (NSIS).
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I indicated yesterday, the Government is already taking action on the famine, and the Prime Minister has been very comprehensive in his Statement. The Government is already taking action in terms of the fulfillment of the conditions on the police reforms and there will be some legislation coming here. The Government is very conscious of what it needs to do to achieve the mandate that was given to it by the people when the elections took place. What Parliament can do is to review the programmes and make recommendations on, perhaps, where the Government should put more emphasis. But Parliament should never and it has never happened anywhere in the world, take on the role of now re-doing the Budget and deciding what the Government priorities are and then tell it: “You must spend the money as we have decided.” It has always been the mandate of the Government and Parliament approves on behalf of the people. The Government then comes and accounts for it, but never has it happened anywhere that the Government is told to re-allocate budgets---
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the Minister in order to say that the only role of Parliament and the Budget Committee is to approve the Budget? Has he not read the Act which puts the responsibility of budgets with the Budget Committee?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish hon. Shakeel could read the Constitution and the Standing Orders and then, he would be better informed on exactly how the budgeting process takes place. I do not wish to spend this time to take him through a tutorial on how that happens.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for this Minister, who appears to be living in the past, to claim that Parliament has no role in Budget making whereas under our Constitution, the Government’s proposal is a mere wish list and Parliament is the one that has the power of the purse? Is he in order?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would expect the Member for Gichugu, being a Presidential candidate, to take some more interest in how matters like this take place. How does she expect to lead a Government when she does not even know how budgeting takes place?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the issue we are talking about here is covered very clearly within our Constitution. Section 221 is very clear about how that happens.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Could you save the House from misinterpretation and cannibalization of the Constitution by this Minister? Clearly, power has shifted. The Budget should be brought to Parliament two months before the Budget Day, so that Parliament can re-organize it. He should borrow a leaf from what is happening in the United States of America. Is he in order to mislead this House that the power of the purse is with the Government, while it lies with Parliament?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will repeat it again for the benefit of the hon. Member. Section 221 is very clear that the Budget Estimates will be tabled in the House. Once the Budget Estimates have been tabled, they then go to the relevant Committee which makes recommendations. That is Section 221(4). If you read it very carefully and then look through all the other bits and pieces, including part of Chapter 8 which is suspended, which also very clearly says what will happen when it is out of suspension--- It says that no money Bill can be altered without consultation with the Minister for Finance. That is Section 114 which is very clear.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we need to be very careful that we do not take one bit of the Constitution and misinterpret it and then come here and pretend that we now know how budgeting takes place.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the Minister in order to mislead and take this House back on a matter that has been ruled here by the Chair on how to process the Budget? Is he in order?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not taking anyone back. Indeed, I am very conscious of the fact that the budgeting process is still in place. We are yet to come here and discuss the votes of individual Ministries. It is only after the votes of the individual Ministries have been interrogated that you can make a decision on whether we should move money from one vote to another. However, without the advantage of interrogating the votes, which the House Business Committee has already approved, you cannot pretend that you know where money should be moved.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the hon. Minister to accuse this House of pretending and not discharging its duties, when he has started with Article 221(4) and stopped there, instead of proceeding to Article 221 (5) that says that after the submissions have been made, the Budget Committee will go out there and take into account what they heard from the public and further make recommendations after. This is directed to the House and it is what we have done. Is he in order to mislead the House?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not discussing the Report of the Committee. I am discussing the amendment by Mr. Mbadi. Hon. Mbadi was in that Committee but was overruled.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we need your guidance here. As far as I am concerned, there is no Bill before the House. We are discussing a Motion. When the hon. Minister talks about a money Bill and say that it should not be amended--- We are not discussing any Bill. We are discussing a Motion.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will ignore that because the reference to it is obviously suspended in the Constitution. These are issues which are within Chapter 8, which is suspended. However, I would like to explain to the Member that even at the full flight point, when we had to discuss this Budget within the framework of the new Constitution, there is a clear methodology that says how these things should be done. It is not just through an arbitrary way. We must remember these issues regarding the new Constitution coming in and placing responsibility on Parliament were done that way because it was deemed that the Treasury used to arbitrarily change the Budget. However, we cannot move that arbitrariness from the Treasury and bring arbitrary changes in the House.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. There has been a ruling in this House that underscored the role of Parliament in the budget-making process. The Minister is claiming here that the role of Parliament is suspended. The role of Parliament as articulated in Article 221(4) says that Parliament shall discuss and review. The operational words there are “discuss” and “review”. Is he in order to mislead this House that this has been suspended?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish the Members would be more attentive to what I am saying and stop putting words in my mouth. Basically, I have recognized Section 221(4) which basically says that the Committee will review and make recommendations to the House. The Committee has made those recommendations through a Report. We are discussing that Report. But within the framework of that Report, an amendment has been brought; which attempts to reallocate funds from one department to another without telling us, as a House, what are the implications of removing Kshs2.7 billion from a body that has been recognized within an institution that is paramount for the security of this country, and moving it arbitrarily to the police and famine relief, when the Government is already taking measures on how to address those issues through other reallocations? That is the import of my argument. We cannot come here and, at the stroke of a pen, at the whims of a Member, decide that we should move money from one account to another without looking at the implications of that move. We would be regarded as being very reckless if we were to do that kind of thing. I beg to oppose that amendment and urge this House to also oppose that amendment and look very critically at other amendments that may be proposed within the framework of this Report. With those words, I beg to oppose.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to oppose the amendment by hon. Mbadi. As I oppose the amendment, I am asking myself: Since we want to lower the budget that is supposed to give Kenyans security, have we had time to go and talk to the members of the families of the victims of the bombing that took place at the US Embassy in Nairobi? What would they say? What would the family members of the victims of the bombing that took place in Paradise Hotel, Mombasa, say? Those events took place because, maybe, our intelligence system was not up to it. Probably, the same equipment that the NSIS was using at that time could be the one, archaic as it is, that they are still using now. Hon. Members will remember that we had the post-election violence in this country. Probably, if the NSIS was properly equipped, that problem would not have been there. I believe, and it is a fact that, if this House is serious on matters of security, then we would not be debating this amendment. When we debate this amendment, we are giving the impression to the public that matters of security, to this House, are not a priority. To say so is irresponsible of us, as Members of Parliament. It would depict us as being careless and, in fact, we would look in the
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for hon. Dr. Khalwale to imply or insinuate that, that was not considered when I moved this amendment and yet, the Report of the Defence and Foreign Relations Committee is attached to this very Report? It says they could not determine transparency and accountability on the part of NSIS because the budget is not itemized. That is what the Report of the Defence and Foreign Relations Committee says.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I belong to the Defence and Foreign Relations Committee and I want to confirm that whatever he has said is not the truth. We even visited the NSIS Headquarters and they itemized everything which is appearing here. So, whatever the MP is saying is out of order.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the Report, it is clearly stated--- If I had the Report I would read it. The Defence and Foreign Relations Committee reported to us that since the budget of the NSIS was not itemized, they could not determine whether it had been done transparently and whether there was accountability. They recommended that in future, this should be done. That is why I am saying that, instead of giving them more money, we reallocate it.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would not want to respond too much to what hon. Mbadi is telling me, because being a new Member of this House, he does not know that, having been given an opportunity in his committee to record his minority view, it was supposed to end there. He should not have brought it here to take up any more time of this committee, but that is not my point. My point is---
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for hon. Khalwale to mislead the House? Between him and hon. Mbadi, who is new? He is the one who is new!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to agree. I stand guided by what hon. Ethuro has said, but allow me to change what I meant by that; actually I should have said he is less experienced. I am more experienced than him.
The fourth point I would like to make on this intended removal of the money from the Budget is an appeal to presidential candidates. Presidential candidates are raising the possibility that somebody wants to use this money in his presidential campaigns. Are you saying that is possible when Parliament still exercises its oversight role?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. With all due respect to my friend, hon. Khalwale, I thought we were discussing an amendment which says that we take Kshs1.7 billion to the Strategic Grain Reserve to mitigate against hunger, and Kshs1 billion to mitigate against the disquiet in the police force by increasing their salaries. How does the issue,
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Midiwo stood up before I concluded my point on this issue. What I am saying is that for those who care to know, we have cleared the backlog that was in the Public Accounts Committee (PAC). We, therefore, have an opportunity to do deal with real issues. We shall be doing more of special audits because we are current. Therefore, we have no reason to fear that money will be misused.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I seek your indulgence. The hon. Member is speaking as if he is a member of the PAC. He is not a member of PAC! He is new in this House!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that point of order is frivolous.
In conclusion, the point I am trying to make is that all the presidential candidates should know that when we go into the campaigns next year, you might be subjected to a live debate as presidential candidates. Kenyans are going to ask you about your stand on funding the security system in the country. If you tell people, especially those who live around the border with Somalia, Ethiopia and Uganda, that you are going to remove money from security, we are going to be afraid of voting for you as our presidential candidate. I believe that at the moment, the National Security Intelligence Service (NSIS) must have enough money, so that the surveillance of our borders is done electronically, rather than deploying there troops, who will cause anxiety in the other country, and at the risk of triggering off a war situation. It is for this reason that I wish to beg the House that we all oppose this amendment and agree with the committee so that this money is given to the NSIS.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. At the very outset, I would like to put it on record that I am opposed to this amendment. It is true that, in the Budget the amount of money that was going to go to the police in this financial year is not reflected, but that is an issue that I have already taken up with the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance, hon. Uhuru Kenyatta. Therefore, that is a matter that is under consideration. At this particular time you want to say that you take money from one security organ to another when this country is faced with a very major insecurity threat--- I think that is committing this country to an impossible security situation. I think it is important that I should also enlighten you.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it really in order? The Minister always stands here to tell us how he is lacking funds and that is why he has had insecurity issues. He has always agitated for the rights of his police officers, but he now stands up and rejects money what this House is ready to give, so that we can alleviate the problems that he is always brings to this House! Is it in order for the Minister to go against his own words on the Floor of the House?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not think I need to answer that particular bit of it.
This amendment is predicated on the premise that the NSIS is not a security organ. I want to say here that it is the firmness of an intelligence body that normally entrenches the security of the country. Any intelligence institution of any country is expected to be much more
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the hon. Minister in order to deny his own police officers money, when we want to give them an increment in order to boost the security of this country?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I wanted to know whether the Minister is in order to mislead the House by telling us that security matters are more important than food, while we know that in the hierarchy of needs, food is number one and security is number two?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to say one thing. We do not want anybody to die for any reason; let us also understand here that the moment we have insecurity, as did happen not too long time ago in Todonyang, where Kenyans died--- We also had the bombing of the American Embassy, where more than 200 Kenyans died. You cannot tell us that we should have a weak security system in this country, so that Kenyans can die.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is also a contradiction here that whenever there is an attack in this country, the same hon. Members asks us why our security operatives have not taken any action.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I think the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security is really trivializing this issue.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, a hungry Kenyan; somebody who is dying does not bother about security. The work of the NSIS, more often than not, is to give information. I am wondering if the information being given to a hungry police officer who has no equipment, will be able to provide any security. Is it in order for him not to realize that the potential of the insecurity in this country is caused by this kind Ministers who do not really understand the kind of life police officers are living when he lives in ivory towers?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I made it clear that I am concerned about the welfare of the police. As far as their salary is concerned, I have already requested my own colleague, the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance to address the matter. He is right here and he has assured me that he will address it. The majority of hon. Members who are talking here---
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Minister to mislead this House and country that there is any deal he can cut with the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance, yet we know very well that we are concluding the Budget for this year? Unless that deal comes in the Supplementary Budget, there is no guaranteed, it will happen now. Why is he rejecting the efforts of this House to give him money, while he prefers to cut a deal with the Minister for Finance?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the police and the NSIS work together. The NSIS is a much more sophisticated body. It carries out investigations both within the country and outside the country. I have stated here many times that we have an unstable nation next door. It is a nation that is harbouring terrorists. It is harbouring Al Qaeda operatives. The police work within this country. However, it is the NSIS which gathers information on what is happening in Somalia and
Order! Hon. Professor Saitoti, you can say what you want without churning yourself into a frenzy.
This is an amendment. Usually, when debating an amendment, by tradition, there is a limited number of contributions and then it is disposed of so that it is either carried or lost.
The Chair will give one more Member----
Order! The Chair is on his feet, please, freeze. The Chair will give one more chance to one Member and then I put the Question.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, ordinarily I belong to that side. In fact, I would not have supported this amendment. But after hearing the people who are opposed to this amendment, I have a historical moment to demonstrate why this amendment must be carried.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, a short while ago, none other than the Prime of the Republic of Kenya was giving a statement on the Government response to the famine situation in the country. The Budget estimates before us have given Kshs1 billion in this financial year while even the last year, they gave Kshs2.4 billion. They have made a reduction of Kshs1.4 billion. Is that a Government that is scaling up relief efforts, or is it a Government that has reduced relief efforts by a half?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is why I support the money going to famine relief. The second money will go to the police. As I speak now, we are suffering incursions from Sudan, Ethiopia and Uganda.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, could you protect me?
Order, hon. Members! Allow the Member to conclude so that we can dispose of this amendment.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the second issue is on protection of civilians. I have demonstrated this. I have said in this House how many times we have been killed by people from Uganda, Sudan and Ethiopia. Even internally, we have serious conflicts between Pokots and Turkanas to the extent the other day - Prof. Saitoti should empathize with his officers, they were even ambushed and killed in cold blood trying to defend our people because they are few in number.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will also recall that whenever we ask the Government to give us money, Ministers always say if the Parliament can give us more money, we will “a”, “b”, “c” and “d”. The Budget has given us an opportunity to give Government money, why are they refusing it?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It was just the other day the Member for Turkana Central was complaining about insecurity in Turkana District, when several people were killed. He was saying that the Government did not have enough machinery and
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Gabbow seems to be contradicting me when he is actually advancing my own arguments. That is why we have allocated Kshs1 billion to the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security to deploy more officers in Loima District where I buried people who were killed by cattle rustlers. They gave us an OCPD, but he does not have his officers. He has only a driver and a security officer to the OCPD. Mr. Minister, we have given you money. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, finally, let us not mislead Kenyans that we are reducing the budget of the National Security Intelligence Service (NSIS). We are maintaining the budget of the NSIS at the level of the last fiscal year. We are talking about the additional allocation they will get. Given the fact that the Government has declared famine a national disaster, we are telling it: “Put the money where your mouth is.” I rest my case and support this amendment.
Order, hon. Members! Because of the interest generated, the Chair will allow two more hon. Members to contribute. Yes, the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance!
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This issue has raised a lot of emotion and I do not think we need to raise emotions on this issue. Security, just as food security, is equally important. I do not think the Government is blind to the fact that we are faced with a major famine throughout the country. As late as two or three weeks ago, a sub-committee was formed under the Office of the Prime Minister. When we were formulating the Budget, we did not at that stage envision the extent of this drought. As a result of that, the Cabinet two weeks ago, in recognition of the problems Kenyans are facing agreed that there be a re-allocation within the Budget to cater for this emergency. The Cabinet approved Kshs10 billion to be re-allocated to deal with the problem of food. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thought it is necessary to say this here because---
Where is the money from?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, from within Ministries. It is not additional money. It is the Ministries represented in the Cabinet that agreed that individually, they did not realize the extent this drought was going to hit and they have reorganized themselves and set priorities. Consequently, as far as I am concerned, the issues that have been raised---
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance in order to mislead the House that two weeks ago Ministries agreed to re- allocate money within themselves and yet when he appeared before the Committee he said that Ministries were not willing to let go of money?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not think that is a point of order. I said that the Cabinet sat. The question I was asked in the Committee is whether I have the capacity as the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance to re-allocate or prioritize for Ministries. I said that I did not have that capacity. I said that the Cabinet sat and Ministries were asked to relook at their budgets to see how they can
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance to mislead this House that we are mishandling an important institution when we have, in fact, retained the money he allocated in the last financial year? If there is any person who is mishandling the institution, it is him who allocated the same money. We are just saying: “Do not give them more because we have more dire priorities than ever before.”
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on a point of information because that is not correct. I think we heard from the Committee Members themselves. The Committee said that they had gone through the budget of the NSIS, the Department of Defence and all the other institutions under them and were satisfied that the requests that were made were in good order. I am sure they do not want to mention them on the Floor of this House because of security reasons.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance to persistently continue misleading this House? The Committee’s Report is attached to this Report and it is very clear. They have said they cannot confirm because the budget is not itemized.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support the amendment. I have heard us give an erroneous perception that food is not an important issue. We have seen Kenyans die of hunger and I do not know which dead Kenyan needs security. We do not need security in our graves. We need to be alive before we are given security. This is an issue of immediate survival versus future survival. I do not need to survive in future if I cannot survive today. The way life is coined is that you live today before you live in future. The way you live today is that you must have food and water. What we are asking is that the Budget needs to acknowledge the fact that there are many Kenyans who are dying. That is why the Prime Minister was allocated special time today to talk about the issue of food security. We have discussed that matter more than once in this House and a Committee in that regard has even been set up. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there are many revolutions that are going on all over the world and there are many countries where revolutions have been done because of food. A hungry man is an angry man. We must listen to Kenyans who are hungry. What we are saying is that we are
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. We have just heard that there is Kshs10 billion. Could the hon. Member on the Floor factor the Kshs10 billion which has been allocated by the Cabinet while contributing?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if I heard the Deputy Prime Minister correctly---
On a point of information, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am willing to be informed.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with regard to the budget of the NSIS, the whole amount has been put in planning and administration. There is no money which has been allocated to buy equipment and vehicles. There is also no money which has been allocated for construction. How do you allocate 30 per cent increment from the previous budget? The initial budget was Kshs10 billion and they have increased the amount to Kshs13 billion in spite of them doing the same job and having the same manpower for the same period. That is why we support the amendment.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my point of order is on the question of the money being allocated to the NSIS in a block. The National Security Intelligence Service (NSIS) itemized their vote and said: “We are going to use this money for this purpose.” We cannot do that and it is not done in any country!
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have not spoken about campaigns. So, the guilty are afraid!
Order! The last speaker is the hon. Member who is on the Floor and the Chair will not entertain any more points of order because this is an amendment which has to be disposed off. Proceed, Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona!
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I was saying that if you actually look at the allocation to the NSIS, you will find that it is already Kshs10 billion. So, it is not that we are not giving them money. Even the monies we have given them in the past, we have hardly seen what they have done with it. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, what we want is that, yes, we will bring improvement to the NSIS but, right now, what is the major crisis facing this country? Kenyans are dying of hunger and we need Kenyans to be given food. We also need Kenyans to be allocated food! We are asking this House to allocate Kenyans food. We are asking for food, food, food! So, it is a question of “money or the box”! It is food for Kenyans or money to the NSIS. I will go for food for Kenyans! If we need to allocate any further, the police have been crying. As Parliament, we have been challenged that we are earning a lot of money. If we want to give just a little to the police, we are complaining! Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will go with Kenyans. Is it money or food? It is food!
Order, hon. Members! Order, Ms. Karua!
Yes, there are more than enough Members seeking a Division. Ring the Division Bell.
Order, hon. Members! May you all be seated. The eight minutes for the Division Bell are now over. Order, hon. Members! I wish to announce the Tellers for the Ayes: Eng. James Rege and Mr. Moses Lessonet. For the Noes: Dr. Nuh Nassir and Mr. Gabbow. I, therefore, direct that the Doors be locked. Under Standing Order No.161, we are in the process of a Division. I wish to explain for better understanding by the hon. Members. The first thing we did was for the Division Bell to be rung which the Chair ordered. The second thing was to call the House to order and then announce the Tellers which I have done. The third one is to direct that the Bars be drawn. The fifth stage will be to put the question. The sixth stage is now to direct those ones for the Ayes to go to the right and the Noes to the left and then you have only 15 minutes to cast your vote. After 15 minutes, the Tellers must report the results of the Division to the Chair and then the Chair will announce the results. So, we are now at the stage of putting the Question.
Order, hon. Members! It is now time to get the results of the Division.
Eng. Rege and Mr. Lessonet.
Dr. Nuh and Mr. Gabbow.
Hon. Members, we will now go back to the original Motion. The amendment has been negatived!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me take this opportunity, first and foremost, to join hon. Members in commending the Budget Committee for the insightful report and their dedication and commitment to provide oversight to the budget process. I also wish to appreciate the opportunity accorded to the Treasury by the Committee to highlight some issues during our deliberations. That said and done, I would like, nevertheless, to point out that such consultations would have been better organized in a more civil and professional manner, to allow for fruitful deliberations that culminate in a consensus report to be tabled before this House. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in keeping with the rules and ruling of the Speaker of the National Assembly on the 7th of June 2011 and taking into account the spirit and letter of the Constitution, the House should stand guided on how to proceed with the adoption of the Budget Committee Report and the subsequent approval process of the Appropriations Bill and consequently the charge on the Consolidated Fund and whether such a charge is on the whole Consolidated Fund of the Government of Kenya or only on the Consolidated Fund of national Government under Article 206.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will recall that I did submit the 2011 Budget Policy Statement (BPS) in March 2011 and, indeed, in the BPS we set out clearly broad macro-policies including spending priorities consistent with the national strategic objectives of the Government. We also provided projected baseline ceilings by sector and by programme and indicated that should additional resources be available in the course of framing up the spending plans for 2011/2012 they will be utilized for strategic interventions including measures to address emerging challenges.
Order, Minister! Your time is over! Mr. Ethuro, please, proceed!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also want to support this Motion by bringing a small amendment.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I, therefore, beg to move that the Motion be amended as follows:- On page 12, paragraph 37, 12(1), line 3, by adding the words “and Bogoria-Silale Geothermal Block Infrastructural Development” after the word “Menengai.”
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you look at the proposals that the Geothermal Development Corporation gave us, as the Committee on Energy, Communications and Information, they needed 400 megawatts for Menengai project and 2000 megawatts for Bogoria-Silale, which will not only produce the power we need, but also open up part of North Rift.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the amendment and ask hon. Karua to second.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to second the amendment and note that it will make that exploration more inclusive and provide more power to the country.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would also like to commend the Committee for providing more money to teachers, but that money is not enough. The money for Early Childhood Education will have to be added during the Supplementary Estimates. I also want to lament that the police reforms have so far not been taken seriously, especially the plight of the junior officers who deserve and were promised a pay rise which has now been thwarted by the Executive. This Parliament should take up its power of the purse under Article 221 of the Constitution. It is high time that we started vetting the security votes which are open to abuse, in line with the Constitution.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want also to say that it is a shame that Kenyans are dying because the Government cannot organize proper supply of relief services where they are needed. It is high time that we allocated resources to the areas that need them.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to second.
Call the Mover!
Order! Hon. Members, under the powers that the Chair exercises under Standing Order No.1, I am going to give an additional one-and-a-half minutes to the Minister to conclude as much as he can what he was saying and then give the remaining three minutes to hon. Mbau.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me just summarize. I think the bottom-line of what I was trying to say is that there are a lot of good proposals that are contained in the Report, some of which have already been taken up by line Ministries. There are other proposals that we believe, if taken on board, would have other repercussions. I believe that there is need for us to have further discussions on those particular items with the Budget Committee, the line Ministries and the respective
Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I would like to thank all hon. Members who have participated in making contributions to this Budget Report. I want to urge them to support.
It is now time to interrupt the business of the House. The House stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 28th July, 2011, at 2.30 p.m.
The House rose at 6.30 p.m.