Hon. Members, I have a Communication relating to Articles 109 and 110 of the Constitution of the Republic of Kenya, 2010, touching on the Mining Bill, 2014 and the National Drought Management Authority Bill, 2013.
Hon. Members, as you are aware, Standing Order No.122 provides that upon publication of a Bill, and before First Reading, the Speaker shall determine whether:- (a) it is a Bill concerning the county governments and, if it is, whether it is a special or an ordinary Bill; or, (b) it is not a Bill concerning county governments.”
This Standing Order was meant to operationalise the provisions of Article 110(3) of the Constitution, which provides that:- “Before either House considers a Bill, the Speakers of the National Assembly and the Senate shall jointly resolve any question as to whether it is a Bill concerning counties and, if it is, whether it is a special or an ordinary Bill.” As we are aware, from the Memorandum of Objects and Reasons, the Mining Bill, 2014, sponsored by the Leader of Majority Party and the National Drought Management Authority Bill, 2013 sponsored by the Member for North Horr, hon. Chachu Ganya, were at the point of publication and subsequent First Reading, determined to be “Bills not concerning county governments,” for the purpose of Article 110 (2) of the Constitution. Hon. Members, I have, however, perused the Mining Bill, 2014, as passed by the House on 29th October, 2014 and found that some of the Committee Stage amendments proposed by the Committee on Environment and Natural Resources and adopted by the House had the effect of converting the Bill into “a Bill concerning county government”. In this respect, the Committee proposed and this House adopted, amendments to provide for the regulation of artisanal mines and established in every county, an Artisanal Mining Committee. In the composition of the Artisanal Mining Committee, the governor is expected to nominate a representative, who shall also be the chairperson of the committee. Additionally, the Committee on Environment and Natural Resources proposed, and this House adopted, a formula for sharing of royalties as follows:- (a) seventy per cent to the national Government; (b) twenty per cent to the county government; and
1 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 (c) ten per cent to the community where the mining operations occur.
These amendments had the effect of touching on the functions and powers of county government, as provided for in Article 186(3) and Part 2 of the Fourth Schedule to the Constitution.
Hon. Members, with regard to the National Drought Management Authority Bill, 2013, as passed by the House on 12th November, 2014, I have also perused the same and found that some of the committee stage amendments proposed by the sponsor of the Bill and adopted by this House had the effect of converting the Bill into “a Bill concerning county government”. In this respect, hon. Chachu Ganya proposed amendments to provide for the establishment of a county forum to co-ordinate and oversee drought-related interventions in all drought-prone counties. He was reminded by the Chair at the point of moving those amendments that they would convert the Bill into a Bill concerning county government, and he admitted awareness of that consequence.
Article 110 (4) of the Constitution provides that:- “When any Bill concerning county government has been passed by one House of Parliament, the Speaker of that House shall refer it to the Speaker of the other House.” Our Standing Orders provide that a question of constitutionality can arise at any time during the consideration of the business of the House. The question of Article 110 (2), having arisen at the committee stage amendments to the said Bills, I therefore, in accordance with the provisions of Article 110 (4) of the Constitution, wish to notify the House of the transmission of the Mining Bill, 2014 and the National Drought Management Authority Bill, 2014 as passed by the House on 29th October, 2014 and 12th November, 2014, respectively, to the Speaker of the Senate for consideration by the Senate.
Hon. Members, I must, however, urge our colleagues in the Senate not to be involved in speculative postulations on matters pending before the National Assembly with the sole aim of misleading the public. Indeed, as communicated by the Deputy Speaker last week, the Mining Bill has been in the custody of the Clerk of the National Assembly since 29th October, 2014, when it was passed by the House for purposes of entering the numerous Committee Stage amendments made by the House. This Bill has never been presented to His Excellency the President for assent as misreported.
This year, the National Assembly has submitted several Bills concerning county governments to the Senate for consideration, including the following: 1. The Fertilizers (Amendment) Bill, passed by this House on 19th June, 2014; 2. The Public Procurement and Disposal (Amendment) Bill, passed by this House on 24th April, 2014; 3. The Statute Law (Miscellaneous Amendments) Bill, passed by this House on 23rd July, 2014; and, 4. The Division of Revenue Bill, 2014.
Hon. Members, other than the Division of Revenue Bill, 2014 that was dully passed by the Senate, the rest of the Bills are still pending in the Senate House. Many a times, the Members of this House have been inquiring about the status of these Bills and it is obviously a matter of concern that some of these Bills were submitted to the Senate over six months ago. Further, the House is aware that two Bills with a constitutional deadline, namely the Public Service (Values and Principles) Bill ( National Assembly Bill No.29 of 2014) and the Environmental Management and Co-ordination (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.31 of 2014), both of which were sponsored by the Leader of Majority Party, that are currently being
2 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 considered by this House, have been determined to be Bills concerning the county government and will, therefore, be passed over to the Senate once this House finishes with them. Therefore, I wish to assure this House and Kenyans at large, that this House has acted within the provisions of the Constitution and in particular the provisions of Article 109 of the Constitution. I restate my commitment to uphold the Constitution and the rule of law in the conduct of business between the two Houses of Parliament. Thank you. Next Order.
Hon. Members, pursuant to Standing Order No.225 (2)(b), I have a petition to report to the House. The petition is signed by Mr. Kipkorir arap Menjo, Director of Kenya Farmers Association; North-Rift Region and other farmers’ representatives from the region. Among the prayers sought include the increase of budgetary allocation to National Cereals and Produce Board, the Agricultural Finance Corporation and the Kenya Seed Company Limited through the Supplementary Budget.
Hon. Members, this petition stands committed to the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives for consideration. The Committee is requested to consider the petition, and report its findings to the petitioners and the House in accordance with Standing Order No.227 (2). In addition, the Committee may also wish to address the views of the petitioners while considering the Financial Estimates for 2015/2016 Financial Year.
Hon. Members, there is a petition by hon. Esther Murungi.
Hon. Speaker, I have a petition directed to the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives by Nyeri County coffee farmers.
I, the undersigned, on behalf of Nyeri County coffee farmers, draw the attention of the House to the following:- THAT, Kenya is known worldwide for production of superior quality coffee; THAT, Nyeri County accounts for a significant amount of Kenya’s coffee production; THAT, the County Government of Nyeri issued directives that all coffee produced in the county must be collected and delivered to Sagana Coffee Millers, and that marketing, selling and payment of farmers for their coffee would be executed squarely by the county government; THAT, this initiative by the county government has led to delayed payments to farmers for their coffee, thus occasioning huge financial losses and hardships; THAT, the initiative by Nyeri County to market, sell and pay farmers has led to farmers earning much less per kilogramme of coffee delivered as compared to other farmers in neighbouring regions like Meru and Kirinyaga, whose coffee is sold through auction at the Nairobi market. THAT, though agriculture is a devolved function, coffee is a major foreign exchange earner and is categorised as a scheduled crop by the Crops Act, 2013 and thus is subject to
3 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 regulation by the national Government since the coffee sector is not an exclusively county government function; THAT, efforts to engage the county government on the said issue have been fruitless, thus exposing farmers to continued liabilities and debts, which impact adversely on their major source of income; THAT, coffee farmers in Nyeri County have reasonable grounds to justify that the manner in which coffee production is being handled by the county government is not only fraudulent and illegal but also economically unviable; and, THAT, issues in respect of which this petition is made are not pending before any court of law, constitutional or legal body, I pray that the National Assembly, through the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives, intervenes:- (i) to have the petitioners provided with a detailed account of the coffee produced since the introduction of the Nyeri County Government marketing initiative; (ii) recommends a full disclosure of all the agreements, memoranda of understanding and contracts with third parties and coffee farmers by Nyeri County as well as the audited accounts of the coffee sales by the county; and, (iii) causes the involvement of the Agriculture, Fisheries and Food Authority in regulating marketing and sale of the coffee crop in Nyeri County.
The petition is signed by five farmers; namely Charles M. Gachari, Samuel R. Macharia, Charles M. Chogo, Joseph Wanjohi and Godfrey Gatheru Ng’echu.
Hon. Speaker, your petitioners will always pray.
Yes, hon. John Mbadi.
Hon. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order No.225, I rise to present a petition to the Departmental Committee on Environment and Natural Resources. This is a public petition by Gwasi Hills Support Organisation on eviction of residents from Gwasi Hills Forest.
Hon. Speaker, I, the undersigned, on behalf of the citizens of Kenya, and in particular residents of Suba, who were staying around Gwasi Hills Forest, draw the attention of the House to the following:- THAT, on the morning of 5th May, 2006, a contingent of guards, backed by Administration Police officers and a number of forest officers, descended on three villages in Gwasi where they burned and rendered over 100 families homeless. They destroyed all the property of the affected people; THAT, the residents were wrongly, forcefully and unlawfully evicted from their land without any reason and without any compensation; THAT, this was in contravention of the stipulated procedure to be used prior to forced eviction, under the Evictions and Resettlement Procedures Act, 2012; THAT, this action was performed by the Kenya Forest Service on the instigation of two NGOs operating in Gwasi, namely Osienala and Gwasi Hills Conservation Association; THAT, the eviction was intended to increase the acreage under forest cover from the current gazetted 4,835.7 hectares to an additional 2,737 hectares, which was to be hived off from private land that is currently inhabited by the affected individuals; THAT, noting that the community has held several meetings with authorities to resolve the issue, sent a memorandum to the Deputy County Commissioner in Suba, held meetings with
4 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 stakeholders and sent a statement to Parliament in 2011, which I personally brought to the House for the then Minister for Environment and Natural Resources. Despite the various attempts made by the residents, no efforts have been made to resolve the issue by the relevant authorities; THAT, the manner in respect of which this petition is made is not pending before a court of law.
Therefore, your humble Petitioners pray that the National Assembly, through the Departmental Committee on Environment and Natural Resources:-
(i) recommends that the 2005 gazetted boundary plan No.175406 under Legal Notice No.106 and the Forest Act, Cap.385, which was based on the 1983 land demarcation indicating total forest cover of Gwasi Hills as 4,835.7 hectares remains in force and so should the erection of beacons around the entire perimeter of Gwasi Hills;
(ii) intervenes to ensure that the Petitioners’ plight is addressed by ensuring that the Government compensates families which were illegally evicted from their homes and property destroyed in 2006 and stops further harassment of the occupants of the land outside the gazetted 4,835.7 hectares.
Your Petitioners will ever pray.
Hon. Speaker, just to make a quick remark on this Petition, Gwasi Hills---
Hon. Ng’ongo, we are pressed for time.
Just one minute, Gwasi Hills is gazetted as 4,835.7 hectares. Some NGOs, I think in a bid to get funding from foreign donors and try to show that they are working, yet they have been defeated by protection of the current forest cover, want to increase the forest cover by an additional 2,700 hectares. This is a place that is occupied by my people. In fact, there are about four primary schools that will be affected, not forgetting that there are so many people who will lose their farms and homes. I pray that the Committee visits that place in their investigations and comes up with a lasting solution, because I want my people to live in peace.
Hon. Members, as you may recall, on 13th November, 2014, that was Thursday last week, the Speaker conveyed to the House the contents of a petition regarding the removal of the Chairperson of the National Gender and Equality Commission (NGEC). However, the petition was inadvertently committed to the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs instead of the Departmental Committee on Labour and Social Welfare, which is the relevant Committee mandated to examine all matters related to gender.
Under Section 3 of the National Gender and Equality Commission Act, 2011 the NGEC is the successor in title to “the Kenya National Human Rights and Equality Commission”. You may recall that prior to the enactment of the said law, all matters of the then Commission were examined by the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs. However, following the separation of the two Commissions by Parliament, the mandate for gender and human rights was shared between the two Committees.
Section 8 of the said law charges the NGEC with the principal function of promoting gender equality and freedom. Indeed, the Second Schedule to our Standing Orders vests the subject of gender, culture and social welfare to the Departmental Committee on Labour and Social Welfare.
5 Tuesday 18th November, 2014
You will also recall that in February 2014, the vetting of nominees for the appointment as members of the NGEC was undertaken by the Departmental Committee on Labour and Social Welfare. In this regard, therefore, I now wish to direct that the petition for the removal of the Chairperson of the NGEC be redirected to the Departmental Committee on Labour and Social Welfare.
The Committee will be expected to guide the House by way of a report on whether the petition satisfies the requirements of Article 251 of the Constitution, and any other relevant law relating to grounds for removal of a person from a constitutional Commission. The Committee has 14 days commencing tomorrow within which to submit a report to the House as required under paragraph 4 of Standing Order No.230.
For avoidance of doubt, once the Committee tables its report, the House will have ten days within which to consider the report and decide whether or not the petition discloses the grounds for removal of the Chairperson among other prayers contained in the same petition.
Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Papers on the table of the House, today Tuesday, 18th November, 2014:- The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the Kenya Electricity Generating Company Limited for the year ended 30th June, 2014 and the certificate of the Auditor-General therein. The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the Kenya Power and Lighting Company Limited for the year ended 30th June, 2014 and the certificate of the Auditor- General therein. The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the Local Authorities Provident Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2013 and the certificate of the Auditor-General therein. The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the Ministry of Fisheries Development for the year ended 30th June, 2013 and the certificate of the Auditor- General therein. The Transition Authority Quarterly Report for the period April to June, 2014. The Quarterly Economic and Budgetary Review, first quarter of 2014/2015 for the period ending 30th September, 2014 from the National Treasury. The Constituencies Development Fund Board Report on project approvals and disbursement for the month of October 2014. The Report of a delegation of the Public Investments Committee (PIC) visit to the Republic of Poland from 17th to 23rd November, 2013. Sessional Paper No.14 of 2014 asking for increase of Government of Kenya external borrowing ceiling---
We are not yet on that Order; or do you want to table it?
I want to table the Paper. Sessional Paper No.14 of 2014 increasing GOK external borrowing ceilings pursuant to Section 50(2) of the Public Finance Management Act, 2012.
Hon. Members, for the benefit of the Committee chaired by Hon. Musyimi, the Quarterly Economic and Budgetary Review Report for the period ending 30th
6 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 September, 2014 from the National Treasury is referred to the Budget and Appropriations Committee. It is my hope that very soon, before the end of this week, we will be receiving the reports of the Controller of Budget for the same period, so that Departmental Committees can also begin to examine how Government Ministries and departments have been applying resources which you have approved for them.
Hon. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, pursuant to Section 50(2) of the Public Finance Management (PFM) Act, 2012, this House approves the increase of total indebtedness by the national Government for the time being outstanding in respect of principal amount of money borrowed, or credit obtained, from US$14 billion, equivalent to Kshs1.2 trillion to US$23 billion, equivalent to Kshs2.2 trillion. Thank you, hon. Speaker.
Hon. Ng’ongo, what is your point of order?
On a point of order, hon. Speaker. My point of order is with regard to the notice of Motion that the Leader of Majority Party has just given. This is a very important matter that touches on finances. I would like to ask the Chair of this matter, should it not first be referred to the Budget and Appropriations Committee before we get a notice of Motion to debate it.
He has given notice. He laid the Paper on the Table under Order No. 5 and when we were through with that business, we went to Order No.6, which is Notices of Motions, and he has given notice of that Motion.
Hon. Speaker, I was just curious. Once you have given notice of Motion, it can be put on the Order Paper tomorrow because it now depends on the House business Committee to prioritize it. What is it that is going to make the House Business Committee----The matter must first be referred to the Budget and Appropriations Committee for interrogation before it is finally brought for debate in the House? I was just curious on that.
Hon. Speaker, you know hon. Ng’ongo is still having the hangovers of the Homa Bay meeting. He has not recovered. I have given notice of a Motion and that notice has been given in anticipation that the Budget and Appropriations Committee, or the Finance, Planning and Trade Committee, will look at the documents from the National Treasury; they will interrogate the Cabinet Secretary and other stakeholders. They will table a report and it is that report which will be debated for which I am giving notice of Motion. I want to assure him that we are in the National Assembly of the Republic of Kenya; the 11th Parliament. We are not in Homa Bay, where they had a rally on Friday. Today is Tuesday at 2.30 p.m. and we are back to the House. Please, can you do some acclimatizing? The hon. Member should acclimatize himself and relax.
Hon. Members, for avoidance of doubt, the report that has been referred to the Budget and Appropriations Committee is the Quarterly Economic and Budgetary Review. The Paper laid on the Table of the House by hon. A.B. Duale, the Leader of Majority Party, is on increasing the GOK external borrowing ceiling and is referred to the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade. That is the way it should be.
7 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 Therefore, there are two different documents. One will go to the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade. I am sure hon. Ng’ongo is an active member of both committees; the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade and the Budget and Appropriations Committee. That is the way it should be. There are two different reports; one will go to the Committee on Budget and Appropriations and the other one to the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade. I am sure hon. John Ng’ongo is an active member of both Committees. I am sure hon. John Mbadi will avail himself to scrutinize what is happening in the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade.
Hon. Speaker, aware of the provisions contained in the Constitution on freedom and discrimination, I would like to move a Motion for Adjournment to discuss an issue of national importance. This is assault to ladies in Nairobi and Mombasa allegedly by matatu touts in the last one or two weeks. The reason why this Motion for Adjournment is important is because even today afternoon in Kayole, a girl was stripped naked, assaulted; unfortunately, she did not make it. Therefore, this is becoming a trend that is not about dressing but about gangs. I would like to move this Motion for Adjournment to discuss a matter of national importance.
Do you have hon. Members supporting you?
Hon. Members, I have noticed that there is immense interest. Is it about the stripping or commission of a crime?
Order, hon. Members! Hon. (Ms.) Rachael Shebesh wrote to me yesterday about her desire to move this House on an Adjournment Motion. Indeed, the matter she has raised is one that, as you have shown by your interest, is of great national importance. Therefore, I direct that the House adjourns at 5.30 p.m. for the House to debate this matter. It is accordingly so ordered. Very well. Hon. Mithika Linturi
Hon. Speaker, I feel obliged to seek your guidance on how this House should conduct itself in future on cases where hon. Members come with all manner of Motions before this House and seek to adjourn business of the House to discuss a matter of national importance. Hon. Speaker, I really respect women, children and girls of this country, but so that we do not continue having to check whether you have the numbers or not, I would want you to guide this House, so that in future--- What matter can be referred to as a matter of national importance
8 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 that necessitates the suspension of a matter or Motion that has been lined up for debate in this House by the House Business Committee? I support the Motion brought by hon. (Ms.) Shebesh and I will be here to debate it; but this is just for the future. We must be guided on how to move forward in future. Thank you.
Hon. Linturi, I am sure you have familiarized yourself with the Standing Orders. It is not for the House to decide whether the matter is of national importance; it is the Speaker. If the hon. Member has the support of only 20 hon. Members, then the matter qualifies. I have seen you on your feet indicating your support for the Motion. If you come also with something that is of national importance, we will consider it depending on circumstances.
Hon. Speaker, I think I may not have understood well. I understand the provisions of the Standing Orders and what is required to suspend debate. The question that you have not addressed yourself to, and which I want you to clarify is that you tell us how we will move forward; let us know the threshold that must be met by Motions to necessitate the suspension of an Order that is lined up for debate by the House. I am on this because you may find on a particular day certain Motions that have constitutional deadlines have been lined up for debate. Furthermore, anybody may come at that particular time with a Motion that requires us to stop debating that Motion, so that we get into another matter. That is the clarification I am seeking. Even when we come with such Motions, we may have to check on whether what is lined up for debate has certain deadlines, or it is really a matter that can be suspended to pave way for another matter.
Fortunately, there is no room. Your own Standing Order No.33(2) does not require the Speaker to come and put the matter to a vote. It is if the Speaker is satisfied that the matter is urgent, of national importance and definite. It is, indeed, definite, urgent and it is of national importance. By your rising to support, you indicated that it is, indeed, urgent, definite and of national importance.
I believe that we will continue from time to time approving these kinds of Motions, but if the Members here decide that the matter is not definite or urgent, of course they will decide so by not giving support to it. However, we cannot stifle Members’ initiatives, and fail to give them the chance to raise them.
On a point of order, hon. Speaker.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. Unfortunately, when you were communicating to the House the petition for the removal of the Chairperson of the National Gender and Equality Commission, I had just walked out because my card was not with me. I was alerted that you had communicated to the House that the petition that was referred to our Committee--- You have now referred the same to the Departmental Committee on Labour and Social Welfare.
Hon. Speaker, I do not wish to challenge your ruling but this is a matter that has been discussed in our Committee. As you know, the National Gender and Equality Commission was part of the Kenya National Human Rights and Equality Commission under Article 15. If you look at the Standing Orders with regard to the matters that fall within justice and legal affairs, human rights is one of the issues. Gender and equality is a human rights issue. It does not fall under the Ministry of Labour, Social Security and Services; that is the reason why this Commission is directly under the Office of the Attorney-General. If it is not intended to be under the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs, we will be happy if it can be removed
9 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 from the Office of the Attorney-General and taken to the Ministry of Labour, Social Security and Services, so that we do not have confusion. In fact, confusion was created when this matter was referred by mistake to the Departmental Committee on Labour and Social Welfare with respect to vetting, but this is a commission on human rights. It has been discussed by my Committee and we have, in fact, canvassed this with your office. It is unfortunate that I was not here, not to challenge you but to just bring some information to your attention. I think this is a matter that we possibly need a bilateral discussion on.
I think the appropriate way would be if your Committee can do some note to us because there are issues which were involved when that Commission was formed. It is true it was hived out of the Kenya National Human Rights and Equality Commission and, therefore, there are areas of overlap; I think it is a matter that can be addressed internally and administratively.
On a point of order, hon. Speaker.
Yes, hon. Duale.
On a point of order, hon. Speaker. I want to refer you to Standing Order No.86 titled “Proceedings of Select Committees not to be referred to.”
Hon. Members who are consulting, please do so in low tones.
Hon. Speaker, that Standing Order reads:
“No Member shall refer to the substance of the proceedings of a Select Committee before the Committee has made its report to the House.”
Hon. Speaker, there was a trend developing that before committee reports are tabled and they become public documents, the same reports are being discussed and serialised in newspapers. If you saw yesterday, and it was not the first one, the Daily Nation carried a substantive portion of a purported report which is yet to be tabled before this House by the Public Accounts Committee (PAC). I wish the Chair of that Committee was here.
Hon. Speaker, before that there was from the same report the hustler’s jet issue which I raised. Also, a purported report is circulating in the media from the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives. It is even being alleged that the report is being doctored because a certain amount of money is being mentioned.
Hon. Speaker, this touches on the integrity of this House and the PAC must come out very clearly. There is no way we are going to get a report that is in the media. It is good that you give direction; if possible the Nation Media Group (NMG) must give us the source of that report. The picture of the hon. Member for Kuresoi South was there. The photo of the Senator of Busia was there. The photo of the wife of the former Vice-President and the leader of Wiper, who has too many problems to deal with currently, was there.
His wife’s name was there and I want to tell the former Vice-President that he should relax. There is no report before the House and his wife is safe.
10 Tuesday 18th November, 2014
Hon. Speaker, if you have been following the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives, chaired by hon. Aden Nooru, about its report on the sugar sector; Mumias and the former managing directors of Mumias--- Some of them are now governors of big cities; that report has not reached your desk for approval. It is not going to committees’ directorate. It has not come to the Clerk’s office. Parliament has not seen it. It is being debated by another “parliament” called the NMG and those who read newspapers.
Hon. Speaker, I think it has now reached a stage where we must defend the integrity of Parliament. We want you to make a communication on this matter today and ask that when the Chair of PAC tables the said report, he must tell us whether it is the same one we read yesterday. If it is the same, then this House cannot debate a report which has already been debated by the public and the media.
Thank you, hon. Speaker.
Hon. John Mbadi, do you want to say something on this matter? Be quick, please.
Thank you hon. Speaker. I want to thank the Leader of Majority Party for raising this issue, though I do not agree with him when he talks about the former Vice-President disrespectfully. The former Vice- President became a Member of Parliament in 1985, when hon. A.B. Duale was still in school. He needs to respect him.
Having said so, my Committee; the Public Accounts Committee which is chaired by hon. Ababu Namwamba, met this morning. We were actually shocked by what appeared yesterday, not in the Daily Nation but in The Standard . We were concerned because, first, we do not yet have a report for the 2010/2011, 2011/2012 and 2012/2013 financial years. What we have is conclusion of discussion and debate on those reports. This morning, we were sitting to approve the same. This afternoon, at 4.00 pm, we will conclude the approval of the same reports, which are likely to be tabled in this House on Thursday.
Hon. Speaker, Standing Order No.86, as read by hon. A.B. Duale, is very clear. In fact, the Chairman was as shocked as we were. Instead of blaming the PAC, we need to go to the First Schedule of our Standing Orders. Paragraph 6 of the First Schedule to Standing Order No.5 says “Accredited journalists shall be allowed access to designated areas for purposes of following the proceedings and taking notes and any journalist so allowed, shall observe the Standing Orders and these Rules.” Hon. Speaker, journalists who report on Parliament are obligated to follow the Standing Orders, and not to quote any draft report of a committee. I want to conclude by saying the following; my committee asked me to raise this matter in the House. I did not know that the Leader of Majority Party would also raise it. I want to ask that the Parliamentary Broadcasting Committee takes action, as mandated under the First Schedule, Paragraphs 6 and 7. Paragraph 7, which is on breach broadcasting rules, provides that any person who fails to comply with the rules shall be liable to such penalties as the House may, on the recommendation of the Parliamentary Broadcasting Committee, consider appropriate.
I am one of the people who have been fighting very hard for the media to have unlimited access to Parliament, and to report objectively. However, that goodwill should not be misused and abused by violating the provisions of our Standing Orders. First, the report referred to by TheStandard yesterday and attributed to the PAC was not a report. Secondly, the issues canvassed with regard to the Senator for Busia, the wife of the former Vice-President and even the Member for Kuresoi, were actually misplaced and misreported. So, that media report has put us in a very
11 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 awkward situation as a Committee. The Leader of Majority Party is even arguing that if our report is similar to what was serialised, then it should not be debated. Hon. Speaker, we should bear in mind the fact that this Committee has been working very hard to have the accounts approved by this House in a record time. This is the first time that PAC is going to present reports for three years at once. So, I urge that the matter be taken up by the Parliamentary Broadcasting Committee. Thank you.
Hon. A.B. Duale, are there corrections that you want to make?
Hon. Speaker, I want to make a serious correction. I want it removed from the HANSARD as I apologise to the Nation Media Group. It was not the Nation that serialised the alleged parliamentary report but The Standard . I am sure that the Standard owes this House an apology. For now, the matter is not about the Daily Nation . Thank you.
Hon. Members, the matter of discussing matters before Committees, or others purporting to have access to what has been discussed in Committees, and especially matters in respect of which reports have not been tabled; is really serious. We must bring it to an end.
I quite agree with hon. John Mbadi that our rules allow for admission of any person, including the media, but they must also play by the same rules. I want to make a substantive communication on the matter, because even some of us have the habit of calling Press conferences and saying: “This is what we have been saying. We are going to summon so-and- so.” We are seeing a lot of recklessness. Therefore, as we expect the media to abide by our rules, we must also play by those same rules. There will be a communication on this matter on Thursday.
Hon. Members, the business appearing under Order No. 8 is a Motion. I want to give guidance. Before we proceed to Order No. 8, I wish to notify the House that on November 14, 2014, my Office received a hearing notice concerning a petition on the appointment of Dr. Lydia N. Nzomo as Chairperson of the Teachers Service Commission. The petition seeks to prohibit me, or the National Assembly, from causing the report of the committee to be debated in the House. The petition further seeks to prohibit me from communicating the House resolution to the President until determination of that petition.
Hon. Members, there are no orders, interim or otherwise, on the petition prohibiting the House from proceeding with the debate on the Motion. In this regard, therefore, I direct and order that debate on Order No. 8 proceed as scheduled. Thank you.
Hon. Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion:-
12 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 THAT, pursuant to provisions of Standing Order 45, this House adopts the Report of the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology on the Vetting of the Nominee to the position of the Chairperson of the Teachers Service Commission, laid on the Table of the House on Thursday, 13th November, 2014 and in accordance with Section 8 of the Teachers Service Commission Act, approves the appointment of Dr. Lydia N. Nzomo, PhD, as the Chairperson of the Teachers Service Commission.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, during the vetting process, the Committee considered a number of issues. We examined the nominee against the following criteria and status as set out in the Public Appointments (Parliamentary Approval) Act of 2011. I would also want to note that on Friday, 30th October, 2014, an advertisement was placed in the print media, inviting the public to submit memoranda by way of affidavits on the suitability or otherwise of the nominee in conformity with Section 6 (9) of the Public Appointments (Parliamentary Approval), Act 2011.
Order! Order, hon. Members! This is a Motion in which Members have an interest. Therefore, let us give the Departmental Committee Chair an opportunity to prosecute it. Maintain silence, hon. Members. Proceed, hon. Melly.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. The Committee received the memoranda on Thursday, 6th November, 2014 at 5.00 p.m. At the expiry of the said period, the Committee had received two memoranda but they did not meet the threshold as they were not submitted in form of sworn affidavits. Therefore, the Committee did not consider them. Therefore, in accordance with the Public Appointments (Parliamentary Approval), Act 2011, we looked at the following:- (i) the academic qualifications of the candidate; (ii) her employment record; (iii) her professional affiliation; (iv) potential conflict of interest; (v) her knowledge of the relevant subject; (vi) her overall suitability for the position; and, (vii) tax compliance and integrity. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, during the sitting held on Tuesday, 11th November, 2014, the Committee conducted a face to face interview of the nominee. During the interview, the Committee observed that the nominee holds a PhD in Education Psychology from Kenyatta University; a Master of Arts Degree in Counselling Psychology from the United States International University and a Bachelor’s Degree, with Diploma option, from the University of Nairobi. With that particular academic qualification, the candidate is well-read and well-versed with education matters. She has a clear understanding of the education system in this country.
13 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 After her education background, she was employed by the Teachers Service Commission (TSC) as a teacher and rose through the ranks from a teacher to become a Deputy Commission Secretary. The candidate also indicated that she served for a very long time as a teacher. She also served as an employee at the TSC Secretariat for over 23 years. She also indicated that she has a wealth of experience as a leader, an employee and a worker. She has also had affiliation to international professional bodies. She is a member of the African Women Educationists, Kenya Chapter. She is also the Chairperson of the Kenya Women in Development and a member of the Catholic Women Association. I am indicating this to show that the candidate has a lot of connections, professionalism and relevant knowledge of the subject. When checking her knowledge of the relevant subject, we found out that she is well versed with the functions of the TSC and the supervisory role of the Commission to ensure that the Commission fulfils its mandate. She has undertaken several training workshops and attended several conferences, including educational administration, management, effective service delivery, interpersonal management, in-servicing and promotion of teachers. I would like to indicate that the candidate showed a lot of knowledge in teacher management. In fact, she has also attended the International Labour Conference on Maternity Protection at Work, Results Oriented Management, Conflict Resolution in Trade Disputes, Information Technology on Smart Card, and Advanced Training Programme in Education, Planning and Management. She has also attended workshops on Budget, Curriculum Approaches, Education Staff and Skills. On her integrity, we received a letter from the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission indicating that she had been adversely mentioned, but this was two years ago. We got the letter when we were going through the vetting process. On seminars and workshops, we have also indicated that she attended a number of workshops; one, on Education Administration and Management Course at Leeds University in Britain in 1984. She also attended a Strategic Management Leadership Programme at the Kenya School of Management in February, 2013. On her overall suitability, the nominee was ranked position one by the Kamunge selection panel, with a score of 8.3. The Committee found her qualified for the position due to her vast academic and management experience. She has never been dismissed from office for contravention of provisions of Article 75 of the Constitution, which deals with the conduct of State officers who are adversely mentioned in any investigatory report, of Parliament or a commission of inquiry. Dr. Lydia Nzomo has a wealth of experience in institutional management and she steered the Kenya Institute of Management to great heights. She also steered the Kenya Institute of Curriculum Development (KICD) to become a centre of excellence in curriculum development in Eastern Africa. She was appointed a millennium development ambassador by the teachers without borders in 2010, and she demonstrated that she posses leadership skills. The Committee found the nominee suitable for appointment as the Chairperson of the TSC. We, therefore, recommend that the person be appointed. I ask hon. Anami to second.
Before you second, hon. Nyikal, what is out of order?
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. There is a lot of interest in this Motion and many Members would like to contribute. So, I wish to propose that we limit the Members’ contributions to five minutes each, instead of the normal ten minutes.
14 Tuesday 18th November, 2014
Whereas that makes perfect sense, hon. Nyikal, we will deal with the Motion and bring it before the House. Once we propose the Question, we will put your request before the House for it to make a decision. It makes sense. I can see already we have 30 requests. Let us have the Seconder first. What is it hon. Shabbir? Let the Seconder first proceed. What are you seconding, hon. Shabbir? Well, you will have your say, hon. Shabbir. Let us have the Motion seconded. You have already seconded? Were you the one who was seconding?
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. The appointment of Dr. Lydia Nzomo is long overdue. I want to observe that the Kenyan populace has been denied essential service by the absence of the Commission. The Commission should be in place, so that the Kenyan public can get education services, which are fundamental. This has taken a long time. We have issues pending like the recruitment of teachers. We are now experiencing a deficit of more than 90,000 teachers and decisions on this have not been made comprehensively because of the fact that the Commission is not in place. The appointment of Dr. Nzomo will, therefore, fast-track the provision of services to the public. On vetting her, we found her to be a pleasant and humble personality, who will give Kenyans servant leadership that we expect. She has institutional memory of the TSC and other educational institutions like KICD, where she has served at senior levels. With the knowledge that she has, we are sure to get a good service from her. She is ready to lead the TSC to greater heights; it is a very important Commission.
We took cognizance of the fact that Dr. Lydia Nzomo is an educationist per excellence. Upon her initial retirement, she took up teaching duties at the Kenyatta University (KU), where she served efficiently. We think when she brings her experience to Teachers Service Commission (TSC) we will serve Kenyans effectively. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I would like to specifically point at her orientation as a reformist. Dr. Nzomo is a reformist and we were very happy with her position on the issue of performance contracting. She positively thought that teachers need to be put on performance contracting, so that we can have efficient and effective service delivered to Kenyan children. We also took interest in gender equity that she will create in leading this Commission. It is very important for us to consider and appreciate that we have a good nominee here who should be approved for appointment as the Chairperson of the TSC. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker I beg to second.
Thank you Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I will be extremely brief. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move the following Procedural Motion:-
15 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 THAT, pursuant to provisions of Standing Order No.97, this House resolves that the debate in Order No.8 be limited as follows; a maximum of one hour thirty minutes, with five minutes for each Member, ten Minutes for the Leader of Majority Party and Leader of Minority Party and ten minutes for the Mover in replying.
Noting the interest that has already been indicated by hon. Members on this Motion, I propose that the time for discussion by hon. Members be reduced from the normal ten minutes to five minutes. That is my proposal.
Yes, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I have proposed a maximum of one hour and thirty minutes for the Motion, with five minutes for each hon. Members, ten minutes for the Leader of Majority Party and Leader of Minority Party before the Mover replies.
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I needed your direction in terms of the way we need to proceed in future. We have been exchanging views with other Parliaments across the world. If I was to draw colleagues’ attention to what we found in Philippines, for Motions such as this, if there is no registered opposition, they are merely read and confirmed passed. We are here waiting to debate several matters: Bills, Motions and others and we are binding ourselves to take a whole one hour-and-a-half confirming that this professor should be appointed. Why are we wasting all that time? In as much as it is in our Standing Orders now, I think going into the future, we should rationalize the manner in which we proceed, so that if we have matters where we have convergence of minds, we do not waste national time debating them. In this one, I wanted to beg respectfully---
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I wanted to request that we reduce the time on this matter to 30 minutes or less, or you directly put the Question, so that we can go to more serious matters.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to speak to this Motion. From the outset, may I say that today I am a very happy man. I want to take the earliest opportunity to congratulate His Excellency the President for bringing this gracious lady’s name for passage by this Parliament. It has been long overdue. I think I will not be wrong to say that the whole country is waiting for Parliament to approve the appointment of Dr. Lydia Nzomo to head the TSC. The reason is as has been explained by the Committee that has done a very nice report when vetting her. I only would want to add that this is a win for the country. For those who would care to understand, or know--- That is why I said from the beginning that I am very happy. I have to declare my interest in this matter. This lady comes from Nyambene. She comes from the very remote areas of this country, an area that has been marginalized for a long time. Today, the people of Nyambene, Meru, Ukambani and the people of Kenya are happy. They are happy because---
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, the interest that I have is that she comes from my county and the extra interest is that she was born in my county. We gave her to the Kambas, who have been taking care of her. That is why I am saying that we are in a win-win situation for the Kamba, the Meru and the people of Kenya. We gave ourselves the Kenyan Constitution, 2010, that has guaranteed education to the Kenyan people and the children of this country. The TSC has stayed for a long time without proper leadership and a properly constituted Commission. We believe her expertise and experience in this commission will have something that will be for the good of the children of this country. Teachers’ disciplinary cases are always pending and the absence of teachers in schools means that children of this country are not being taught. I am sure that this time round, other than Mr. Okiya Omutata, who is my friend, other Kenyans are very happy. We want to pass the Motion, so that she can be sworn in tomorrow and take up her office. I am sure things will be different.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this chance to contribute to this very important Motion. The Kambas were never given Dr. Nzomo; they married her. That is very good. Dr Lydia Nzomo is extremely qualified. As I can read from the mood of the House, Members are saying we can even reduce the minutes for debating this Motion. The whole House is so agreeable. Dr. Lydia Nzomo has risen through the ranks. She has served the Teachers Service Commission for 23 years. Even where she went to do curriculum development, she was dealing with education. So, there is nobody as qualified as Dr. Lydia Nzomo.
17 Tuesday 18th November, 2014
The Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology has done a good job. They have done a good Report after observing due diligence. They considered education, qualification, relevance and suitability. For the House’s information, Dr. Lydia Nzomo scored 80.3 per cent in that interview amongst many men and women of this country. So, she is extremely qualified. It is not easy for someone to get a PhD. In this House there are many PhD holders like hon. Naomi Shaban, hon. Millie Odhiambo, hon. Kaluma, Eng. Gumbo and hon. Kajuju. To get a PhD is no joke.
They told me that when we were taking tea. However, I withdraw. Dr. Lydia Nzomo joined TSC as a staffing officer for secondary schools. She rose through the ranks for those 23 years until she got to the very top. She did an impressive job during her ten years at the Kenya Institute of Curriculum Development (KICD). All Kenyans agree that she also increased the budget to over Ksh1 billion from Ksh230 million in 2004. If the House approves the appointment of Dr. Nzomo, the country and the teaching fraternity will be very happy. Everybody is waiting for this appointment because this is someone who is qualified. In every interview she has gone to, she has proved that she is very qualified. Dr. Nzomo transformed the e-learning landscape in Kenya by developing web-based centred primary, secondary and teacher education. She knows the problems of teachers. Teachers of this country should be the most highly paid servants. I believe teachers, doctors and paramedical staff do a lot of work. It is a shame that teachers have to threaten to go on strike for them to be paid. If you know how much teachers take home, you will be very surprised. Some of us have relatives and friends who are teachers. We want Dr. Nzomo to go there and make sure that the teachers of this country are well paid so that they teach our children effectively. Someone who is not well paid will not produce good results. Dr. Nzomo spearheaded the establishment of the first educational digital television channel in Eastern Africa. She did so much between 2008 and 2010. There is so much that we can talk about on Dr. Nzomo. She has a wealth of experience in education. There is nobody who is as suitable as Dr. Nzomo.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I have a point of order. I believe hon. Nyenze is misleading the House. Dr. Nzomo is not going to decide the salaries of teachers. It is this House to provide the budget and yet this House has not been providing the budget for adequate remuneration of teachers. We should not bury our head in the sand. That is misleading the House.
18 Tuesday 18th November, 2014
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for protecting me. The TSC has a lot of say in how much teachers are paid. However, we also know that this Parliament appropriates budgets. It is upon us to allocate them adequate money. Everybody has been through school. Our children go to school. Teachers are very important. Let us try and make sure that we have a big budget for education so that teachers are paid well. Without good pay, there will always be problems. It is Dr. Nzomo who can effectively do this because she has risen from low ranks to the highest position in TSC. She knows what should be done. It is not good to bring someone who has no experience to TSC. It is good when you work with people who have experience. Affordability of education in this country is a very big problem. Free education has been provided in primary schools. However, in secondary schools, most of the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) money goes to paying school fees through bursaries. Let us also try to make secondary school education free so that all children from poor families can access education because the question of affordability is great. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I want to conclude by saying that if you can see and read the mood of the House, we need to shorten this debate so that Nzomo gets in. Thank you very much.
The Leader of Minority Party, that is totally out of order! You have contributed but you want to deny your colleagues a chance to contribute. There is a problem with the way Members are showing interest. A lot of interest seems to be coming from Members from the Eastern part of this Republic.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me a chance to contribute to this Motion. We are appointing Dr. Nzomo not because of where she comes from and not because she was married to a Kamba or because she was given birth to by Merus---
Order Hon. Linturi! You should not act as a member of the animal kingdom.
Dr Nzomo is a capable Kenyan lady. She is a Kenyan by all descriptions. So, when we approve the appointment of this lady, this House will have achieved a lot in solving the problems bedevilling TSC. When she goes there and works with the
19 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 Commission Secretary, who is also an educationist, I am sure teachers will be well taken care of as long as this House supports the budget proposals made by the TSC. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Dr. Nzomo has worked for a long time in the Teachers Service Commission (TSC). In fact, she would have been the first TSC Secretary some 15 years ago, but she was being overlooked and other people appointed instead. Now we give this thing as a gift for her work well done for this country. Nobody should question her capability. I should ask the Mover to put the Question. With those few remarks, I support.
Well, top on the list is hon. Maanzo. I saw him step out so I am giving this chance to the hon. Member for Igembe Central.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to support the appointment of this great lady of Kenya. Let me take the opportunity to thank the President for seeing it necessary to bring her name to the Floor of this House for us to debate it and also to the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology and hon. Members for having approved this great lady who is well schooled and who is well experienced to take up this job. The TSC has suffered for long and so many things have not been happening because this position has been vacant for quite a while. There are so many things which have not been going right as far as education is concerned. We have so many teachers who are already on disciplinary list, who could have been vetted so as to go back to schools where we have so many shortages in our schools. Our children are suffering because they lack teachers. There are other functions of TSC which have not been functioning. Dr. Lydia Nzomo is well schooled as we can see on the list of her credentials and the experience she has amassed as far as education is concerned in this country is indisputable. Nobody can challenge that. We have been longing for this name to be brought here, but because of some hurdles and some interference from some quarters, it has taken long. It is on record that she has been picked by the vetting committee as number one twice or so and somehow she has been relegated to other numbers. The star has shone today. I thank the President and the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology. I fully support her appointment. Thank you
Very well, let us have hon. Ibrahim Saney.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. I did not expect that it will come so soon. The person of Dr. Lydia Nzomo has been well explained in the report and many speakers before me have further deliberated on the issue. But on a brief note, I think the Chair of the TSC is so much required especially at this time when there is so much tumult over teachers’ salary; when there are notices; when they are always giving notices for strike. The nomination of one, Dr. Lydia Nzomo is timely and should be supported. The person of Dr. Lydia Nzomo is one who has had a very impressive career progression; who served as a teacher; a staffing officer; senior deputy commission secretary and with all that, it is clear to say that she has all that it takes in terms of attitude and the qualification to lead this institution that requires real leadership. I would wish to give credit to Kenyan courts. Were it not
20 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 for the law; were it not for the courts; I am sure Dr. Lydia would not have been the head of this wonderful institution; this constitutional Commission. I am sure forces of impunity have been working day in day, day out to make sure that she does not succeed. With the grace of God and with her competence, she has always been at the top of the list. Today, with the good guidance of the Attorney-General and our courts, we are proud to have this wonderful person to take over this position and take the TSC forward. I believe with Dr. Lydia Nzomo, the TSC will be up for reform in a great way. That means a very important sector of this country, the TSC being the backbone of this country in developing and creating human resource, we will have one lady who might be the only PhD holder from the Meru Community.
She is probably the first. I am being addressed by the Hon. (Ms.) Kajuju, my colleague. I have no problem with her being a PhD holder. In a nut shell, I support and request all of us to support this lady assume her appointment. Thank you.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity.
The rest of hon. Members be patient; you will have an opportunity. I see there is a lot of interest. We have 38 hon. Members who want to contribute and I will definitely give you an opportunity.
Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. First and foremost, we want to thank the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology for the job well done and for appointing a competent and very well educated woman in this country. It is high time we gave equal opportunity to both genders in this country without fear or favour. I want to say it is overdue for Dr. Nzomo to be appointed. I have been on record in this House trying to compel the Government to bring the name of Dr. Lydia Nzomo to this House for appointment after she was erroneously left out on the last forwarding of names to this House. I want to thank this House for standing up and rejecting the other names. Today we want to show the country that we stand by integrity; we stand by the rule of law; we look at all the qualities and all the qualifications. We are very sure that with the experience of Dr. Nzomo, the TSC is going to get leadership and all the wrangles within the TSC will end. They will be dealt with according to the law. At the same time, we want to urge Kenyans to support Dr. Lydia Nzomo to make sure that we transform the education sector in this country because we know very well the Commission has stayed for so long without a chair. It has led to serious malpractices; serious problems within the teaching fraternity and it is high time this House stood beyond the borders of political parties, borders of our tribes and gives a chance to our well natured Kenyan lady to transform this industry once and for all. This afternoon, I can assure you we have received a petition from the public regarding the issue of school fees in this country. We are aware that we have been having serious problems because of lack of leadership at the TSC. So, we need to affirm our authority as a House to give this power to Dr. Lydia Nzomo and lead this big organization to high heights so that we can have equal and equitable distribution of education in this country. So, because I can see the mood in the House, I do not want to take a lot of time. We support Dr. Lydia Nzomo and may God bless her in her new appointment.
21 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 Thank you.
Asante sana, Naibu Spika wa Muda. Haiwi haiwi, leo imefika. Baada ya muda mrefu, huyu Daktari Lydia Nzomo, ambaye ndiye alikuwa anafaa kupatiwa kazi hii tangu Bunge la Kumi, sasa hivi, wakati umefika. Imesemekana kuwa akisema atakubariki, hakuna atakayezuia. Wakati ni sasa. Daktari Lydia Nzomo angekuwa amefanya kazi nyingi sana.
Ukiangalia, watu wengi walikuwa wamenyemelea nafasi hii. Wangeipata na Lydia Nzomo angebaki bila kazi hii ambayo amehitimu kufanya na ambayo ni muhimu sana. Tuko na hakika kuwa anaweza kuitekeleza kwa haraka na pia kuhakikisha kuwa walimu na wanafunzi wamepata haki yao.
Tume ya Walimu si tume ya mchezo. Wahenga walisema kuwa bahati ya mwenzio usilalie mlango wazi. Daktari Lydia Nzomo, akipatiwa kazi hii, ataitekeleza. Ukiangalia historia yake, amefanya kazi kubwa sana kwenye Tume hii ya Walimu. Baada ya huu muda wote, akipatiwa kazi hii, ataitekeleza vilivyo.
Lydia Nzomo anaelewa matatizo ya walimu. Amekuwa mwalimu na anaelewa shughuli za Tume ya Walimu. Alifikia kuwa Naibu wa Katibu Mkuu wa Tume ya Walimu. Kwa hivyo, tunamtakia kila la heri atakapokwenda kuitekeleza kazi hii.
Naunga mkono Daktari Lydia Nzomo aanze kazi haraka iwezekanavyo.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for this opportunity to support this report that has been tabled in this House. We are seeking to give the TSC a chairperson. The TSC commands almost 300,000 teachers. Each of us in this House today passed through the hands of teachers. It is an important commission that takes care of our daughters, sons, sisters and brothers. It takes care of the family. This is the right time that we are giving the TSC, not only a person who is qualified for the position, but a woman to take charge. It has been proved in this country under the Jubilee Government administration that women deliver.
Dr. Lydia Nzomo is qualified to the letter. She has passed through the systems and understands them. In her interview with the Committee, she stated that she is going to engage with the Salaries and Remuneration Commission to ensure that the teachers get better terms. We have been receiving threats from teachers every now and then that they want to go on strike because their terms of service are not good. This has been happening because they have not been listened to properly. Now, we have a qualified woman, who is going to give them the motherly care that they deserve, so that their terms can be improved. That is why it is important that we approve this report today. Dr. Lydia Nzomo stated her openness and willingness to engage the various bodies like the Kenya National Union of Teachers, KUPPET and others, to see the best way forward in as far as the teaching profession is concerned.
One of the issues that have always disturbed me in as far as teachers are concerned is career progression of teachers. You will have a teacher who is a Diploma holder, who has educated themselves to the level of a degree and even a Masters, who still end up teaching in a primary school. Their talents and skills are not recognised by any institution. We are calling upon Dr. Lydia Nzomo to look into the issue of career progression for teachers. Once they get these certificates, they should be promoted and earn a salary that is commensurate to their qualifications. Regardless of whatever situations that will be brought on board and whatever cases will be filed against Lydia Nzomo, she has passed the test. I pray and request my brothers and sisters in this House today to approve this report. I want to thank His Excellency for finding it fit to forward the name of Dr. Lydia Nzomo, so that she can be approved and take charge of the TSC. This should have been done yesterday. I support with all my heart and soul the Motion that is before the House today.
22 Tuesday 18th November, 2014
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for the opportunity to contribute to this. I wish to join my colleagues in supporting and approving the appointment of Dr. Lydia Nzomo to the position of the chairperson of the TSC. She is a lady who has shown a very well decorated curriculum vitae and remarkable achievement in her career. Indeed, it will be an honour to Kenyans that we get an opportunity to be served by this devoted Kenyan. What has interested me most in Dr. Nzomo is the very serious agenda that she has for the TSC. It is very clear in her report to the Committee that indeed, if the issues that she has raised here, and well articulated here, are going to be implemented, Kenya is likely to see a transformed TSC, which is the dream for many of us. In her approach or agenda, she wishes to ensure that there is a better chance to influence policy of the commission that will guide the secretariat in delivering its mandate. In terms of pursuing or introducing new initiatives, she also wishes to introduce systems that will decentralize the customer care desk to the local levels. I am very much impressed because with the spirit of devolution, many Kenyans are looking at a strategy that is aimed towards decentralising the services of this commission to the various parts of this country. In her agenda, Dr. Nzomo wishes to ensure that there will be equitable distribution of teachers across the country. Coming from northern Kenya that experiences serious shortage of teachers, this strategy will address the problem that currently exists and that is causing very poor performance in the education sector in the marginalised areas. I support Dr. Nzomo on this particular issue. By the time she achieves that, lives for many Kenyans will have, indeed, been changed. Dr. Nzomo wishes to ensure that head teachers are given capacity building. This is very important. We have seen the arena in leadership even among the students changing in Kenya to the extent that students will now have to elect themselves even within the schools. She says that she will ensure that teachers are given that upgrade in terms of training, which is very important. Issues with regard to salaries, which my colleagues have addressed, she has very good plans for them. It is very encouraging to remove the issues of recurring strikes. Finally, and very importantly, Dr. Nzomo wishes to undertake to ensure that the teachers are given courses and they get the minimum requirements for the TSC right before they go for training. Unfortunately, we have many Kenyans who have trained as teachers, but by the time they are supposed to be employed, they are told, “sorry, you did not have the initial basic qualifications.” She has a plan to ensure that this is addressed. Of course, she talked of the implementation of the performance contract. This is another area that is very important. She has a serious agenda on how to address child abuse. I want to end here and say that if Dr. Nzomo achieves the elimination of what we have seen in terms of teachers abusing and defiling children at school, this will be remarkable. I have the full confidence that she will do so. I strongly support this appointment.
Well, I see hon. M'uthari but I will not give him a chance first. I will start with hon. S. S. Ali, because we need to balance.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. An organisation is as strong as the leader that leads it. Dr. Nzomo has what it takes to lead TSC and that is very important. Whether she comes from Ukambani or anywhere else is not relevant. We support her nomination and this is the right time we need a person who can work hard and change the image of the teachers. TSC needs a tough person and she is tough. There was a time when teachers were one of the pillars of the society. Through mistreatment and bad leadership, many of them have gone on strike and lost their respect, not
23 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 because of what they wanted, but because of the way they did it. I laud the Committee for bringing Dr. Nzomo on board. She has the institutional knowledge, background and she will be a tough lady. She is the one we need to change the Teachers Service Commission (TSC) around. As my colleague has just said, she has spent a lot of time in child abuse cases. The first thing she should do is to make sure that teachers who are accused of molesting children are kicked out and make sure they pay. There has been a lot of talk about where Dr. Nzomo comes from. I am the former mayor of Kisumu and I still have the authority to suggest that we give Dr. Nzomo a name of Luo origin; “Anyango”. We shall adopt her in Luoland so that nobody can say that she is from one tribe or the other. She is a proper Kenyan and we endorse that. We recommend very strongly that she is appointed. On the question of integrity, most people complain and say that there are issues of integrity on Dr. Nzomo, they are the ones who are not clean. Dr. Nzomo has been there for some time and she is a person I know, not personally, but from where she has comes from. If for any reason there is anything substantial in the allegations that are coming, she will be the first one to step down. With those few remarks, I strongly support this nomination. Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Very well. Let us have Member of Parliament for Igembe North Constituency to contribute.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. First of all, let me take this opportunity to congratulate Dr. Lydia Nzomo and also thank the President for appointing her. This has been done after a long period of time. This is justice delayed, but it has been now given. I am a member of the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology and we went through her papers. The lady is very articulate and a qualified Kenyan. It is high time Kenyans got the right people in the right places. I believe with a lady of the competence of Dr. Lydia Nzomo, the TSC will experience leadership that will transform the TSC and there will be proactive leadership. I am asking her to ensure that once she is given this responsibility, she should be proactive in her roles so that we do not have the threats of teachers striking now and then. In my opinion, threats of teachers’ strikes are a sign of things which are not working well. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for a long time the TSC has not had a complete leadership. By Dr. Nzomo coming on board and providing essential leadership, we will have a more vibrant TSC. This is a very important commission that manages one of the largest human resource base which is entrusted with the responsibility of forming, informing and transforming the young minds in this Republic. It is high time TSC is given a person of the calibre of Dr. Lydia Nzomo, with the capability and proven track record. She rose through the ranks from a classroom teacher, assistant staffing officer, to Senior Deputy TSC Chief Executive Officer. I believe with her competence and her experience in all sectors in Education, she will be very useful in transforming the TSC. With these few remarks, given the fact that many members also want to contribute, I beg to support her appointment. Hon Temporary Deputy Speaker, there are Kenyans who are goons for hire; they should stop being paid as goons for hire so that they stop other people’s advancement. They should do what they are supposed to do instead of being used as goons for hire. Thank you, Temporary Deputy Speaker.
24 Tuesday 18th November, 2014
Very well. Let us have member for Marakwet West.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support the nomination of Dr. Nzomo as the CEO of TSC. For a long time, over two years, TSC has stayed without a substantive CEO and this is the right time. It is actually overdue. This appointment should have come earlier than today, but it is better late than never. When it comes to qualifications, Dr. Nzomo is qualified because she has a Bachelor of Arts Degree in Education, Masters in Counselling Psychology and PhD in Psychology and Education. When it comes to qualification, she is actually qualified. Her experience is that she rose from a class teacher all the way to a deputy CEO of TSC before being appointed CEO of the former Kenya Institute of Education (KIE), currently known as the Kenya Institute of Curriculum Development (KICD). While she was at KICD, Dr. Nzomo transformed the KIE. When she reached there as the CEO, KIE was not computerised. She computerised the place and now KICD is fully automated. They have an educational resource centre which was not there when she joined as the CEO. Dr. Nzomo has over 30 years of experience. When it comes to experience, there is no question about it. So, I support and I urge all the hon. Members to support her appointment. We believe that sooner than later, especially in the course of this week, the President will appoint her so that she can take up her position. There are some policy issues which have lagged behind since TSC has not had substantive CEO. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, with these few remarks, I support because I know there is a lot of interest in this Motion and because of the mood of the House, I believe it is good to call the Mover of the Motion to reply. Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Well, let us have the Member of Parliament for Makueni Constituency.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this Motion. I rise to support the appointment of Dr. Lydia Nzomo mainly because she has grown within the education system in this country. She has the necessary experience as she has been there for enough years and she has gone through the system as a teacher. So, she understands very well the challenges teachers go through and the issues relating to teachers remuneration. Also, if you look at her education---
Order, hon. Members! Order, hon. Members! Kindly, let us have some concentration from the left side of the Speaker. I understand the excitement there. I know you had very successful--- However, those are not for this House today. Order, hon. Members! Let us maintain silence. We also need your numbers.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for your protection. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, she has a PhD from the Department of Education and Psychology. Her Masters Degree was also on Psychology from the United States International University popularly known as the USIU. That background of psychology and counselling is very important when one is the Chair of such an important body where you have to deal with matters from different levels. The knowledge in Psychology is always an advantage.
25 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 Looking at career development of many teachers in the country and many people who are stationed at one area even if they are very educated, this will be an encouragement. Her appointment would be an encouragement to other people within the education sector that one can actually grow up the ladder before their retirement and they can serve their nation according to their qualifications and that they can make an input. If you look at the institutions she has led before, she has led them very successfully. We are sure that she would lead the Teachers Service Commission (TSC) very well. The TSC has had many problems. The last time I visited the TSC, I felt that as a Member of Parliament who was dealing with matters relating to teachers and schools, I was very frustrated by the way I was handled. I believe now with the Chair, everybody will have a fair opportunity to be heard and that there will be a balance in handling matters relating to schools, teachers and also career development. I beg to support and urge other hon. Members to contribute.
Okay, so we will have the Member for Mbeere North.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this chance to contribute to this Motion. Indeed, I was wondering when my chance was ever going to come. I rise to support the appointment of Dr. Lydia Nzomo to be the Chair of TSC. One thing that is for sure is that the lady is highly qualified. We interviewed her in the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology. She meets the threshold that is required of a holder of that office. She has academic qualifications. She has the relevant experience having put in close to 30 years of experience and service to this nation. This House is aware that the Kamunge Commission interviewed her and she emerged number one. But for various reasons which are extraneous to our debate today, her name was never forwarded to the President. Like another contributor said earlier on, this is her chance now. Those two other instances have come and gone when she was never nominated by the President but this is her chance. Of much interest to hon. Members of the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology was a report emanating - a casual piece of paper - which I would call a letter or which they called a letter from the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC). There has been complaint that this lady has some integrity issues. Unfortunately, there is a commission in place which should work for Kenyans; which should give this Parliament reports as and when they are required. It was a shock to us that since 2012, they have been “sitting” on her case and file. They have not done any investigation and when they were called upon to give us a report, all they had to say is that Dr. Nzomo has been mentioned adversely. They never told us what issues were brought forth against her. We are talking of 2012 so they have been sleeping on that file for two years. That in itself speaks volumes of that agency because they should be giving us guidance and reports as and when we need them. We trashed it because as far as we are concerned, that agency is sleeping on its job. On the other issue, we know that the Constitution is very clear that anybody is innocent until proven guilty. So, a mere allegation that she has been adversely mentioned in certain--- We do not even know what she was mentioned adversely about. That might make this lady lose a job which she is well qualified for. The agency has done nothing to confirm the sins she has been mentioned to have committed. Moving on, we know that the TSC has not had a chairman, I now believe for the last four or so years. An organization without proper leadership speaks volumes again. We know that we have shortage of teachers. We know that there are pending cases of teachers who should be disciplined and whose matters must be heard. Before I sit down, I must say that tomorrow you
26 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 will hear people say that the Speaker of this Assembly is ignoring court orders. As we began this Motion, we were told that a matter has been filed in court. There is no order served upon us. Let me tell the world clearly that nobody can purport to injunct Parliament. We are the people’s representatives. Let them proceed with their matter on Thursday but as we speak and as we vet this lady, there is not a single court order served on Parliament or its Speaker. I support the Motion to have Dr. Lydia Nzomo appointed as the Chairman of TSC.
Very well let us have Member for Magarini.
Asante Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda, kwa kunipatia fursa hii kuweza kuunga mkono taarifa hii inayopendekeza kwamba Dr. Lydia Nzomo aweze kuchukua nafasi ya uwenyekiti wa Tume ya Walimu. Mama ameonyesha ujuzi na tajriba nyingi katika kazi yake tangu alipoajiriwa. Rekodi yake, ukiifuatilia kwa umakini, utaona ya kwamba hakuna kashfa katika kazi zake zote zile alizoendelea nazo kwa miaka 23 katika TSC. Ni dhahiri kwamba tumechelewa kumpata mama huyo ambaye tunatarajia aweze kuiongoza TSC vyema. Katika mahojiano, aliweza kuelezea ya kwamba atafanya lipasalo lolote lile kuona ya kwamba walimu wanafidiwa kisawasawa. Hilo ndilo jambo ambalo hakika kwa wakati huu limekuwa donda sugu. Kila wakati ni kana kwamba Serikali haifahamu kitu kwa maana ni lazima walimu wagome ndipo waweze kuongezewa mshahara. Lakini ameahidi ya kwamba hakutakuwa tena na mambo kama haya ya waalimu kugoma ndipo waongeze mishahara. Atajaribu kadri ya uwezo wake aweze kuona ya kwamba anahusisha wale wote wanaohusika kuona ya kwamba mishahara ya walimu inawekwa kisawasawa. Na vile yeye mwenyewe amekuwa mwalimu, anaelewa dhahiri ni wapi panaposumbua zaidi. Ni wapi mwalimu anabanika zaidi. Vile vile, kuna sehemu ambazo zinastahili kulipa malipo yale ya ziada kwa sababu ya zile shida zinazopatikana kule lakini kwa wakati huu TSC imeziondoa. Hizo pia, ni ahadi yake kuwa atajaribu kuangalia na kuona ya kwamba walimu wale wanarudishiwa marupurupu yao kama ipasavyo. Hakuna mwingine kama yeye. Isitoshe, kiti hiki cha uwenyekiti wa TSC ni miaka mingi kimekaliwa na wanaume. Wakati umefika sasa wa mama kutuongoza. Asante kwa hayo.
Very well, let us have hon. Irea.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this Motion. Dr. Lydia Nzomo is the right person for this post. She has the competence that is required, the ability to perform, the right character and this is the right person for the Teachers Service Commission (TSC). Even the teachers and the students who are watching from the Gallery are happy about this. They are showing on their faces that they have gotten one of them to work with them. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, this lady has worked with the TSC and the education system in this country for a long time. It is the right time for TSC to have the right head. I am not supporting this because she comes from Meru but because of the qualifications and the professionalism that she has. The way she will manage TSC will make teachers have no issues like they have been having before because she has been in this system for a long time. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, professionalism has been a problem in Kenya. People have previously been picked from various places because of their backgrounds and tribal and political party alignments. However, this lady has been picked because of her professionalism. The President and the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology have done the right thing. This is the time we should forget issues about courts because if a busybody
27 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 can go to court to say that this is not the right person, Kenyans have the knowledge and intelligence to know the right person for this post. I support this Motion and her appointment. The President should act fast to have her in place so that issues about education in this country can move at the right speed. This is also an eye opener for many Kenyans to know that professionalism will be checked in all jobs that people apply for. This is because in some sectors in Kenya, you will find that there are some lineups of people just because they come from a certain tribe. This is proof that you can get a job in Kenya and Parliament will support the appointment despite the background you are from as long as you are qualified. This will be possible without people looking at issues that may derail appointments. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, this lady has come at the right time because this time there are many issues about teachers’ salaries, transfers of teachers and teachers going to the remote areas. She has the experience and knowledge and I fully support this appointment and say that this is the right choice for TSC. Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Very well. I can see hon. Opiyo but first allow me to give chance to this lady from Nakuru; hon. Mbugua. I will come to you.
It is hon. Opiyo Wandayi.
It is hon. Opiyo of Awendo and not hon. Opiyo Wandayi. Let us hear from the hon. Member for Nakuru County. It is a very large county.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this chance to support this Motion. In fact, as a woman, I am very proud to hear all the good things about this lady. As many have said, she is experienced and you know that we say experience is a good teacher. The lady has skills, knowledge and capability. With all those qualities, I feel she is the right one to have that position of the TSC Chairperson. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, from what my colleagues have said, this lady has got all the skills and she is a leader. Once she is employed, many people will be learning from her because she is a role model and many will be mentored by her. With those few remarks, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I support the Motion.
Very well. Let us have the hon. Member for Awendo.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for this opportunity. First, I want to say that I support this Motion. We realise that TSC is the largest constitutional commission. Therefore, to have it operate for a year, one year and a half or two years without a substantive chairperson is a disservice to that Commission. So, the nomination and subsequent appointment of Dr. Lydia Nzomo has been long in coming. It has been some time. The lady has faced a lot of challenges and I think going forward and in future, this House will have to review how to relate with the Ethics and Anti Corruption Commission (EACC). This is because it has proved that malicious individuals can use it to frustrate others from rising to positions of power in this country. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, we have a lot of challenges facing the TSC today. We have shortage of teachers and poor remuneration of teachers. From the face to face interview that the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology had with Dr. Lydia Nzomo, it was clear that she had the depth and the strength to manage TSC. So, we expect when - and not if, because we know from the mood of the House she is taking this job - she finally
28 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 comes to the seat, she will come up with innovative ways of making sure that the chronic shortage of staff in schools becomes a thing of the past. We are talking as a country of Vision 2030. The country must therefore be alive to the fact that without proper remuneration of teachers, proper motivation to work so that we have an educated population, we will never see Vision 2030. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I feel that the President and other appointing organs of this country should move with speed to appoint the rest of the commissioners so that TSC can operate to full capacity. This is because as of today, we are aware that a lot of other commissioners have not been appointed. We know what happened in this House in the past. As a country, we are too litigious to the extent that we cannot even have correct things happening at the right time.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, hon. Mpuru Aburi is extremely excited in the House and I believe you can protect me from him so that I can finish my contribution. Since the social media and the mainstream media are awash with politics of moles, I think all the moles in this House as well as the Minority Party and the Majority Party will join our hands to vote as a block to ensure that Dr. Lydia Nzomo becomes the Chairperson of TSC. Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Let us have hon. Murungi.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this chance to also make my contribution in support of the appointment of Dr. Lydia Nzomo. A lot has been said by my colleagues and I do not want to overemphasize this. However, for once, the Education, Science and Research Committee, led by the interim Chairman, hon. Melly, has done us proud this time round. When they were vetting the other TSC Commissioners, Mr. James Nkoroi was nominated as a commissioner and some commissioners who had no issues were thrown out. This time round, they have done a commendable job. There are various issues that Dr. Nzomo has said that she will take head on when she is given this responsibility, like ensuring that the teachers sign performance contracts. This shows that she is ready to bite the bullet while many people have feared to trend that route. Teachers’ performance needs to be tracked, so that our children in schools can perform well. There are so many disciplinary cases with the TSC which have never been canvassed. She has promised to handle these disciplinary cases, some of which are neglect to duty. Some teachers have discipline cases because of harassment of ladies in our schools. I know she will handle this.
At the moment, there is a big fight between the TSC and KUPPET. With the experience and sober mind of Dr. Nzomo, I know she will give the ongoing negotiations a fresh start, so that teachers will not go on strike. Many teachers are performing in this country, but when promotions come, because of corruption and other ill vices in this society, most of them, who perform, are never considered. However, with this God fearing lady, Dr. Nzomo, all these issues will be handled carefully.
With those few remarks, I support the appointment of Dr. Lydia Nzomo as the TSC Chairperson.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Members, a decision that had been reached earlier on this Motion was that it was going to take one hour and 30 minutes. The time is up. So, I now call upon the Mover to respond.
29 Tuesday 18th November, 2014
( Loud consultations)
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I wish to donate one minute each to hon. Injendi, hon. Odanga, hon. Makenga and hon. Millie. Then I will give one minute to the Whip.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): So, one minute each. Yes, he has donated one minute to each of the Members.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Today is a great day for believers. This is one lady whom I want to support strongly. In the last Parliament, she emerged top on the list of the persons who sat for the interview, but the name that was presented to Parliament by His Excellency the President then, hon. Mwai Kibaki with the Prime Minister, was different. However, that particular name was rejected. Again, in this Parliament, when she sat for the interview, she emerged top. Again, when the name was to be presented in Parliament, interestingly her name was missing. Finally, her name has come to Parliament to prove that what God has said will happen will, indeed, happen.
When we were interacting with this lady, I want to confirm to the House that I found her a pleasant person to work with.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Your one minute is up. Hon. Ms. Odhiambo-Mabona, take the Floor.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I support for very few reasons. First, she is very qualified. Secondly, it is very difficult for women to reach these high levels especially because of issues of discrimination. You can even see that on simple issues like dressing, the men are harassing us left, right and centre. You can, therefore, see that for a woman to reach this level, she has done exceptionally well. Even though I know that this issue of dressing is coming up, I want to tell my dear brothers that my dressing is my right. You shall not dictate to me even as I support Dr. Nzomo.
Therefore, I fully support and urge the men to support us to protect our women. Amen.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I have four points in support of this Motion. First, the commitment made by the nominee before the Committee is that she is going to ensure there is staff balancing. I know we have a shortage of teachers, but the few we have, need to be redistributed well. Secondly, she also talked of going to engage the Salaries and Remuneration Commission to see whether this unnecessary industrial action now and then is avoided through upgrading of the teachers’ salary. The third issue that she talked about before the Committee is performance contracting. She said that this is a way of monitoring performance and it is going to be implemented in the TSC. Finally she talked of taking County Directors of Education and the Quality Assurance Officers to the county level, so that they can work in harmony for the betterment of the children.
30 Tuesday 18th November, 2014
Hon. Jacob Macharia!
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support the appointment of Dr. Nzomo to the position of Chairperson of the TSC. I support her appointment, so that we can have order at the TSC. We cannot hold the teaching fraternity and the education sector in abeyance. I can only imagine the thousands of young Kenyans who are wondering why we are supporting the appointment of someone who is 62 years old. We are doing this for sanity, but in future it is important that the young people of Kenya, who are between the age of 30 and 40, are appointed to this position.
Was the next one the Member for Mwingi North? Who was it? Member for Mwingi North, that is what I can see. Proceed. We are wasting time.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to speak to this Motion on a Kenyan citizen by the name of Dr. Nzomo. I know that she will streamline our education sector, which is in serious trouble. We have threats of teachers going on strike, problems of salaries and teachers’ discipline. We also have a shortage of teachers. I support Dr. Nzomo’s candidature. I unequivocally support her taking over this position. With those few remarks, I support.
I am told that I skipped hon. Makenga as the Committee Chair. You have one minute remaining because you had spoken. Hon. Makenga, proceed.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support the appointment of Dr. Lydia Nzomo. She is a highly qualified Kenyan and she deserves that position. That position has remained vacant for a very long time and her appointment is a gift to Kenyans and to all teachers in Kenya. During the face to face interviews, the candidate proved to be very eloquent and she had very good communication skills. She also informed the Committee that she would be able to---
Hon. Mover, you have one minute. The Floor is yours.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I support the appointment of Dr. Lydia Nzomo. During the face to face interview, and as per what the hon. Members have said, we saw that she actually deserves the position. She is very qualified and understands teacher management more than any other person. We have an issue with Early Childhood Education teachers being employed by county governments. She told us how to handle that issue and for the disharmony that exists between teachers and the Ministry of Education Quality Assurance officers, she had very good answers. I support and move the Motion.
Hon. Melly, probably the only thing you forgot is to thank your colleagues for unanimously supporting your Motion.
Hon. Members, we will have about 20 minutes. Hon. Dennis Waweru, you have a balance of eight minutes.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Before I contribute to this Bill, I would like to condemn in the strongest terms possible the unfair treatment of our women. They are our sisters and they have a right to dress as they wish. I would like to say that, it is not a solution to harass women yet they have not complained when men wear sagging jeans. It is unfair and everything should be done within the law.
One of the reasons why I have decided to support this Bill is because for the first time, we are going to have a register where when somebody is arrested, their details are entered. We have had situations where, whenever one is taken into custody in police stations, they have no records to show what kind of assets or personal effects they had. Nobody is there to take note of what has been taken from them. It is, therefore, important for us to have the necessary register.
Order, Minority Whip! Order, hon. Members!
Another benefit of this Bill is that we are going to have a family day where people in prison are able to access their families and have quality time, especially mothers of those in prison. The third reason why I feel it is a good Bill is because it will take care of mothers who are imprisoned with children. That child deserves to get a decent upbringing because he has nothing to do with the crime that was committed by the mother. They also need to get basic needs like clothing, good diet, health care and other necessary facilities accorded to children under four years. The other reason why I support this Bill is because it makes provision for people with disability. If you visit our hospitals and other facilities countrywide, you will notice that there has been some provision for people living with disabilities. It is time for our prisons to provide such facilities. Under Section 27, family day is another reason why I am supporting this Bill. When you are imprisoned, it does not mean that you have been condemned beyond salvage. One of the reasons why people are taken to prison is for punishment purposes. Secondly, it is a form of deterrent so that people do not commit such crimes. The other reason is for protection of the public among other reasons. The most important reason among all is to rehabilitate prisoners so that they become responsible citizens who can contribute to our development. As we put these people away, we should ensure that once they are out of those facilities, they become better and more respectable citizens who can contribute to national building. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, before I wind up I know we have been having quite a number of issues in our police stations. You notice we have been getting people put in together in these facilities sometimes in total disregard of gender and age. You find ladies and men being put together in very small congested facilities. I think this Bill is about correction of that situation and making sure that even if somebody has been put in, we are able to give them decent and respectable facilities.
32 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 According to the Bill, it is important not to condemn suspects or people who have been sentenced. However, there is need to address some of the concerns to ensure that they are given chances to attend school, get courses and training and decently sit for examinations. They should be given chances to pursue their careers. Some of you might have visited the Prison’s Showroom and you probably have seen the kind of good work that is done by prisoners. Even the seats that we are sitting on including the one you are sitting on, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, most likely it was done by the Prisons Department. So, there is need to empower our people so that they can contribute like they have done to this Chamber. Finally, I want to support this Bill. My only concern as I wind up is the cost of implementation. I feel like it might be too cumbersome. It might be very expensive to the taxpayers but it is a good Bill and I support. Thank you.
Very well. Let us have hon. Member for Ugunja, hon. Opiyo Wandayi. Absent? So, can we have hon. Korir Lemein? Absent? We will give the chance to hon. Member for Narok West.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Order, hon. Member! I think you had spoken on this one. I remember.
Indeed, that is why I was about to apologise. I was waiting for the other Motion about dresses and miniskirts.
Well keep on waiting; it is coming. You will have your opportunity. So, let us have the Member for Bomet Central. He is also absent. So, we will go to hon. Peter Kaluma. Let me get from those who want to speak so that I do not strike off your card. Is hon. Peter Kaluma interested in speaking to this particular one? Let us have him.
Thank you hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. This is a very important Bill. I personally stand to support it. I know it is in the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs for due consideration. This Bill for once recognises that when you are deprived of liberty either due to arrest, detention or imprisonment, the only right that you should be denied is your freedom of movement. Other than that, your rights remain with you. This Bill is opportune. As a practising lawyer, I have had to go to so many institutions where we hold persons in remand or in prison. One day I travelled to Lang’ata Women’s Prison without notice as somebody who went to investigate. The people of this country may not know but when female remandees return to the prisons, as a matter of the search process they are required to strip completely naked. So, you reach an area where you have elderly women, young ladies and the middle aged all naked. The manner in which they are searched is so degrading to their human dignity and to the fact that they are women.
Hon. Kaluma, did you truly witness that?
33 Tuesday 18th November, 2014
I am telling you a personal experience. It is a sorry thing. In fact, I do not want to go into the gory details but what will even surprise you---
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
What is your point of order, the Deputy Leader of Minority Party?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, it is interesting that you challenge hon. Kaluma to substantiate if he has truly witnessed. I know hon. Kaluma is a man of distinction and he has seen very many naked people. That is why he is always in court, in and out about the products of nakedness.
This is a very serious issue. Hon. Kaluma really, I am sure you did not witness it.
I thought my Deputy Minority Leader would be apologising for attributing nudity to my personality.
I never go that way but the fact of the matter is that for once we have a Bill saying that people held in custody either as remandees or otherwise are entitled to decency. They are entitled to the dignity and privacy of their person when we are searching them. One thing I have not seen in this Bill is the provision that in as much as searches would be conducted by officers of the same gender, they ought to have necessary facilities. If you remember we have had cases a short while ago where the Member for Taita Taveta County, hon. Lay was saying there is a single individual searching all women bare handed. These are women working in a mining firm, if it can be remembered. I wanted to confirm as a practitioner that this is a complaint coming to us as legal practitioners both from male persons and from women who go there. Essentially and this is something everybody here needs to know, if you are to be arrested today and you are taken to remand at Industrial Area, the first thing as a procedure of their search, and of course in all our holding institutions not just Industrial Area, is you are stripped totally naked. The excuse is that you could be hiding some things under your clothes or really between some parts of your body and that is what is happening. So, for once we have a Bill saying you will respect the privacy of the persons in custody more so those people who are not yet convicted of any crime. I mean they are entitled to their dignity. Let us give it to them. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, there was a day I was driving to Nairobi and a person called me saying: “I am being moved from the remand at Kajiado and being taken to Machakos on a Sunday.” The person was crying and saying: “I do not know why I am being moved and my family does not know.” For once we have a law stating that upon being detained you will be given facilities to contact a lawyer or your family to tell them that you are being held and where you are being held and, of course, where there is need. People do not know that some cases may be so difficult. For once, we are saying that you will have all the details of the person that you are holding. There is a proposal we are making that even the medical history should be known. You will be holding a person invariably who is suffering from diabetes or diseases which require constant check. How does that person reach his family to confirm in case he needs insulin or
34 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 particular facilities if he is drained of them? Really, how will the holding institutions, be they remand or prisons, know the type of food this person should be eating in the current case where people are just taken in and you are treated as a nobody outside there? However let me say this: There is too much crowding in our penal institutions. I wanted to request all of us to remember that really we are removing our philosophy on penology or punishment from retribution to reform. When you go to our prisons around, and I am not blaming Parliament for this because we have a law entitling everybody to bail; in fact, we have created community service order for petty offences. Let people work from outside. However, when you go to our prisons across the country, they are so crowded. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, but when you go to our prisons across the country, what you do not know is that they are so crowded that if you are men, you are told to sleep on your ribs facing one side. You take a line packed there - Hon. Johana Ngeno will tell you. You are required to sleep that tight that you cannot turn. Then an officer walks on the corridors somewhere shouting “now it is time to turn” and you all turn. Situations of overcrowding of such a nature result in crime within our holding institutions; including sodomy. I have interacted with people who tell you “I was sent to remand once and I was badly sodomized.” Of course, some of them do not just end at sodomy or those other moral wrongs. Others leave there with venereal diseases, sexually transmitted diseases and killer ailments like HIV/AIDS. This is a person being endangered to that extent for merely being a suspect. It does happen frequently that we reach situations where such people are acquitted in the end but in the long run because you are subjected to the criminal process; you are already sodomized and have contracted HIV/AIDS. Despite your being acquitted, you have a death penalty arising from that due process you are subjected to. So, what am I saying? I wanted to request colleagues in Parliament; let us remember that today we may be debating it thinking you may not end up there. I am one leader who has been remanded at some point in time because I was fighting people who never believed some Kenyans have rights. In a short time you are in remand, I said if I had a surgical blade, I would have killed myself. So, I am saying that it is good to search but let us maintain and retain the dignity of people and their rights as human beings. Let us only withdraw from them their liberty or freedom of movement even as we go through the trial process. We will be proposing amendments but for now, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I support. Thank you.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I think hon. Kaluma made reference to me. It is true that he was actually making reference to the question of congestion in cells. I was discussing with him sometime about the congestion we have in our cells. I was arrested once and put in Kisii cells. I stayed there for like two weeks. It was a very congested place where every night was very agonizing. When it got to 6.00 p.m. you wondered how you would survive till morning. Congestion is very bad. The heat there is so bad and surviving until morning was terrible. I was discussing this issue of congestion with my friends. I wish to support this particular Bill. I wish to say clearly that it is time we realized that members who have been deprived of their rights are still members of the society. They are part of us. Those people who have been deprived of their liberties are still Kenyans. Even though we know some of them could have committed some crimes, we believe they should be given those opportunities to survive so that they can change.
35 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 I also want to speak to the question of stripping; the issue of searching people who have been arrested. I know most of the people have a problem on how we search these people. Hon. Kaluma has been speaking to the issue of people being asked to appear naked and they search everywhere, including the cavities. The reason why this clause has to stay is because some criminals carry weapons. Some of them can even carry razor blades, phones and drugs in their cavities. This clause was meant to safeguard the security of all those officers who work inside those prisons and the people who have been deprived of their liberties because some people can go there on revenge mission. I also want to speak on that and say that even when we need to do a search, we need to look at the health of that person; the safety and health of the persons being searched. Whatever equipment we are using to search these people must be equipment which have been proven to be good and cannot risk the health of the person being searched. I also want to speak on the question of making phone calls. There is a clause that discusses about a person who has been arrested. The issue here is that we also need to relook at not only the people who have been arrested but our facilities, especially the prisons. They must have, like in the civilized world, telephone booths in every prison so that whenever anybody wants to make a phone call to his relatives or their lawyers, they can be accorded that opportunity. This clause is talking about allowing somebody who has been arrested immediately to make a phone call to his relatives so that people can know where he is. It is important to communicate to relatives when he has been moved from one facility to another. Even in a situation where somebody has been moved to a hospital, this clause is very necessary so that relatives of those people get to know exactly where their loved ones are. I want to speak to the clause about health. Before putting someone in prison or detention, we need to know the health status of that person; whether they are suffering from any kind of diseases so that we do not just keep someone inside there who could be suffering from diabetes or other diseases. We need to know the health status of the prisoners so that we can know how many times those people should be treated when they are inside there. Lastly, I want to speak to the question of visits. This question of visits where we have family days is important. I was thinking of including the issue of conjugal rights in this clause of the Bill. Some of the inmates could have been condemned for life when they were young. Maybe they had just married and they had no children. I think those people should be given an opportunity to meet their loved ones and have a chance of getting children. I think we need to look at this clause so that we can allow them to enjoy conjugal rights. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I thank you and I want to end by saying I support although we might need to look at some of the amendments that we can add to this Bill.
Hon. Cheboi): I hear hon. Members saying three minutes.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I will not even finish the ten minutes as many people want to contribute. We need to hear various shades of opinion because we are the ones who make the laws and laws are what will protect vulnerable people like the young girls we are talking about here.
I beg to move that the House do now adjourn. The Motion that I have brought on the assault of ladies in Nairobi and Mombasa allegedly by matatu touts is puzzling Kenyans. I know many people have said maybe this is not a threshold for adjourning the House but if you have read the news in the last few hours, another girl was stripped in Kayole and unfortunately she did not make it. She died on arrival in the hospital. Being a Nairobi politician and a Women Representative in Nairobi, I felt I needed to raise the issue; this is about gangs. That is why I would want the Inspector-General and the police security arms - hoping they are watching now as I am speaking – to know that we have taken the issue of gangs many times to the police. In every bus stage now, gangs have started forming. They have all sorts of names in every bus stage in Nairobi. These gangs are close to what Mafia is in Italy where those gangs are acting like they are the owners of power.
Last year, I brought a Statement here about rape that was happening in Dandora. Hon. Members will remember that in Dandora, there were cases of rape of girls aged 13 to 15 years by young boys who were also aged 16 to 18 years. The boys would rape the girls in turns. These are people whose whereabouts are known.
What is it, hon. Kaluma? I hope you are not just interested in interrupting the Women Representative of Nairobi County.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am just seeking a clarification. Did hon. Shebesh say that the victim of stripping died this afternoon?
That is terrible! We should stand in respect of the deceased.
Hon. Kaluma, you were seeking clarification; I do not know under what circumstances, but you got it. Let us proceed, hon. Shebesh.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, as I was saying, I know that people have been saying that those girls were wearing miniskirts or that they were indecently dressed. Unfortunately, that is not the case. The first two victims were wearing trousers: one was wearing jeans trousers and the other one was wearing what we call “leggings”. Unfortunately, I have tried to reach them to come for help. I think they are so traumatised that they do not want anything to do with the media or any other people. I have been a victim of assault, and I know exactly what they are going through right now. When somebody is assaulted in this country,
37 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 especially vulnerable people like women and young girls; they end up being touted as having deserved that assault. That is the most painful thing, especially when you are highly traumatised. I do not know how many of you have watched that video. If you watched the video like I did, tears should have come out of your eyes. How are we supposed to deal with the thinking that people are indecently dressed? It is a fundamental right. You can always decide that somebody is indecently dressed but if it was your daughter, would you strip her in front of everybody just to show that you are not happy with the way she is dressed? If it is a neighbour’s child, you have no right over her. You may have a right over your children and your wife, but you do not have a right over how other Kenyans want to dress.
Hon. Temporary Speaker, that is why I thought it was important for me to bring this Motion to the House. Even the miniskirts issue is not really the debate here. The debate is that we have a security system that has gone out of hand, and that there are people who are running
as well as gang-like programmes. On behalf of the Kenya Women Parliamentary Association (KEWOPA), we addressed a Press conference on the matter and joined the demonstrators. Most of the women there asked us where we had been. It did not matter to them that we had addressed the matter through a Press conference. It did not matter that we had released a statement. Neither did it matter to them that we were on the streets with them. The question was: “Where have you been?” I want us to ask that question because we have talked about rape. We have the Sexual Offences Act but, unfortunately, its implementation is a letdown. We should, as a House, fast track the implementation of the Sexual Offences Act. If the Act was in place, we would have gender desks at police stations – places where women can feel comfortable to go and report. My dear colleagues, this issue is clearly spelt out in the Constitution. I will end at this point, so that other people can speak. Article 29 (c) and (d) of the Constitution states that every person has the right to freedom and security of the person, which includes the right not to be subjected to any form of violence from either public or private sources or subjected to torture in any manner, whether physical or psychological.
You will read paragraph (f) because I have not included it here. If you have other Articles, I will be happy if you contribute to say so. Article 27(4) states that the State shall not discriminate directly or indirectly against any person on any ground including race, sex, pregnancy, marital status, health status, ethnic or social origin, colour, age, disability, religion; conscience, belief, culture, dress, language or birth. Our Constitution had foreseen that such incidents can happen but, as legislators, we have to come up with a supportive law, so that when such an incident happens, the police can know exactly where to go in the law. I want to appeal to the Inspector-General of Police that this is something which can get out of hand if it is not addressed urgently, especially in Nairobi. It will be very unfortunate if copycats take it to the rural areas, where such incidents can also happen. Lastly, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, we were debating this issue of how people dress and we remembered that in the 1960s and 1970s, if you have an old photo of your mother, you will see that they used to wear miniskirts galore. In fact, there were no other clothes apart from miniskirts. Never had there been such an issue as what is happening now and we are supposed to be a society that has progressed with time. If you go to Turkana – and I love them very much because they are strong, able and they will be giving us oil very soon in this country – their women walk bare-chested. We have never heard of them being stripped because of walking bare- chested.
38 Tuesday 18th November, 2014
Please, this excuse that women are indecently dressed should stop. It is just used to violate women. These gangs say that they get excited and they do this or that to scare populations. I am asking any Kenyan who watched that video and can identify these culprits to come forward so that we can tame this behaviour. I thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I move.
Very well. We will give the first shot to hon. Regina Ndambuki. I notice you will approach the Dispatch Box.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I also stand here to support the Motion moved by Mheshimiwa Rachel Shebesh. What happened to the two ladies as we witnessed is very sad. As a mother and a woman, I think what happened should be condemned by all of us. If we are going to allow this kind of behaviour, very soon these gangs are going to come together and they will demand for money. If you do not give them money, they will strip you naked. God has given these men time to do what they want. What they are doing in daylight without shame should be condemned by this Government. It is so shameful.
We do not want to make this country look like Johannesburg in South Africa where you cannot walk even during daytime because of crime.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, can you protect me from the hon. Member behind me although I cannot see him?
I want to protect you, hon. Ndambuki. However, I also want us to protect the integrity of other friendly countries by not imputing improper motives on them. You realise that we are open to the media. So, I want us to be respectful to other countries, especially when we cannot substantiate the claims we make.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am sorry about mentioning South Africa. However, people have been attacked in some countries. This is a Christian country and we want to demonstrate that we are Christians.
Yes, I know Muslims and the others. We do not want to subject women carrying briefcases to Gikomba to wear certain clothes different from the ones they wear while on Kenyatta Avenue. Those are hooligans; they are criminals. That is primitive behaviour. Wherever those people are, they should be arrested and put in. Very soon, our young people will not be able to walk anywhere. I have never seen a country which is so civilised like ours having such gangs engaging in that kind of behaviour. Secondly, we have so many tourists coming to this country. Once they discover what happens and given the way they dress, they are not going to come. They will fear being stripped naked.
39 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 We just want to request our security agencies to go for these people because cameras captured some of them. Yesterday while I was watching television, I saw some faces were recognisable. I am sure the security agencies can get them. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, we are also going to be afraid. By the time we come out of this House and before we get to Protection House, you are not sure whether you will come back with your skirt or trouser. We can also be stripped naked out there. So, we need protection.
Order, your time is over.
Thank you so much and those criminals should be brought to book.
Well, I really would want to suggest--- Anyway, let us have hon. Member for Narok West.
Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity also to support the hon. Member for Nairobi County. I want to start by saying that I condemn, the strongest terms possible, those sons of ours who are stripping our daughters. I was listening to some of the local FM stations this morning. When those young men called, they said: “Yes, all these women must start wearing clothes like our mothers.” This is really very shameful and when I heard Inspector-General, Mr. Kimaiyo, saying that those who have been stripped naked must report to the police, I think that is the most dishonest thing that I have ever heard because the videos are there.
All you need to do as the Inspector-General is to look at the videos that are in the media and go to where those girls were stripped and arrest those young men who have done that.
For us to be clear to the public, really, so that we do not--- First, even if the video recording were to be taken, must there not be a complainant? I think it is important so that the public can also know that it is not enough that a crime is committed against somebody; there must always be a complainant. Proceed.
I agree, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. If today we see a person killing somebody, are we going to say that we will wait until the matter is reported? What I am saying, and I agree with you, is that they need to report. How many people will go to the police and say that they have been stripped naked? Remember these are young girls who probably are still traumatized and they need protection. What I want to say is, yes, they must report but even before it is reported, the Inspector-General must do something about those young men who are stripping our daughters as we wait for them to report the matter As we condemn those who are stripping our daughters naked, I also want to say that we need to observe our traditional ways as Africans. Yes, anybody can wear any clothes they want but we must also teach our daughters how to walk and how to wear their clothes. I agree that those who have done that must be taken to jail but at the same time, as the leadership of his country, we should have also joined our girls who were demonstrating the other day. Let us not just wear the ribbons we are wearing. This House must demonstrate on Wednesday or Thursday. We must go out and condemn this act in the strongest terms possible instead of just laughing and saying it is bad. What are we doing as Members of Parliament of this country? Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
So, we will have the Member for Suba.
40 Tuesday 18th November, 2014
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I also want to take this opportunity to support this Motion that was moved by hon. Shebesh. I want to thank her for bringing the Motion to the House. First, allow me to read the particular provision in the Constitution, which I wanted her to read, namely, Article 29(f). Apart from the others, every person has the right not to be treated or punished in a cruel or inhuman or degrading manner. You cannot punish someone in a cruel, inhuman or degrading manner. What we witnessed was clearly an inhuman treatment of the ladies. Allow me to remind those criminals, because these are actually criminals, that it is wrong to say that these were men or young men. These were clear criminals who should be dealt with as such. We should not even say that we wait for the victims to report. This is a crime against the State. The police must take action. These people must be arrested. There is no way you can tell us that you cannot identify those people. They are in this City. They must be arrested and even the ones in Mombasa must be arrested. The Director of Public Prosecutions must proffer charges against these criminals. This is a country that forgives too much. It is a country where someone walks with a stick and canes a former Prime Minister of the Republic of Kenya and the following day, that person is excused. It is a country where people throw shoes at the Head of State and then some people go to State House and the criminals are excused. We are sending the wrong signals to criminals. Criminals must be dealt with. We need to remind these young people, wherever they are, that human beings were created naked; not even with short clothes. Human beings were created naked. If you read the book of Genesis in the Bible, you will find that clothing is a consequence of sin. In fact, if Adam and Eve had not eaten the forbidden fruit, we would be naked and no one would talk about it. Therefore, we should know that there is nothing wrong when people dress the way they do. Sometimes, we give excuses for people who cannot control themselves. You cannot stand in the street, fail to control yourself and then blame someone who is passing by, whom you do not even know. You have your wife, daughter and mother at home, whom you should tell how to dress. If you want to advise my daughter, please do it in a civilized way, but you cannot go to the street and strip someone naked and then come here and start giving excuses. I hear some of my colleagues saying outside here that even as we condemn this, we should tell people that they should dress in a particular way. Which is this particular way? We have not legislated to define how people should dress. If we want, we are the National Assembly and have the power to legislate. If we feel there are some people who are dressing inappropriately, whatever that word means, then we legislate on that. In my view, we should not even continue debating about these criminals. It is a shame that we can take time debating criminals who should be behind bars. Let us give unequivocal statement to the Director of Public Prosecution sthat before Friday, we want to see people charged for stripping these girls, wherever they are. The victims do not have to report to the police. The police have the legal framework and powers to investigate, arrest and forward for prosecution. The faces of these boys are known. I am told they are matatu touts. I even hear that the lady was not inappropriately dressed. The reason they behaved the way they did is because the lady was stubborn. They were signaling and she refused to give in to what they wanted. Then they went ahead and stripped her naked and some people go out there to defend such an act. You cannot. The women who were stripped are people’s daughters. Please, remember that your daughter, mother and wife can also be stripped. What would you say if that were to happen?
41 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, this is not something to be opposed to. If anyone opposes this Motion, then that person does not fit to sit in this House. Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
We will have hon. (Ms.) Machira.
Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda. Nasimama kuunga mkono Mhe. Shebesh katika hili jambo. Jambo hili lilituweka katika picha mbaya sana kama kina mama. Pia limeweka picha mbaya zaidi kwa wazee; hata Wabunge walio katika Bunge hili, picha yao itachukuliwa kama wazee ambao wana picha kama ile ikiwa hawataunga mkono huu mjadala. Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, ni kiazi gani cha nguo ama ni urefu gani wa nguo ambao kina mama wanahitajika kuvaa? Ikiwa kuna urefu wowote, basi hatuwezi kuelezwa na makanga . Ni sisi Wabunge ambao tunapaswa kupitisha sheria hiyo. Ni wanaume wangapi leo wanavaa suruali ambazo ni nusu mlingoti? Washavuliwa suruali hizo na mtu yeyote na wanatuonyesha uchi? Ni wanaume wangapi leo wamebaka kina mama wazee na watoto wa hadi miaka miwili? Wameona wapi uchi wa huyo mama ambaye ni mzee na mtoto wa miaka miwili? Tunataka tuelezwe sisi kina mama tutapitia wapi ikiwa tutaishi tukiogopa katika Kenya hii? Kila siku tunapotembea tunaogopa. Sisi kina mama ni kama tumetengwa wakati wowote ule. Tukienda mtaani ni kina mama, tukienda wapi ni kina mama. Mnataka tufanye nini ili tuwe tunafurahisha? Wazee ambao wako katika vituo vya magari hawaogi na hawatumii maji. Hawasafishi hata wake wao na wanataka kuona sura ambazo zimesafishwa vizuri ili wafurahi.
Wanaume, mwataka kujifurahisha na watoto wetu? Mwataka kuona nini ambacho hamjawahi kuona? Ikiwa kina mama wazee walioishi miaka ya 60, mama yangu alikuwa akivaa nguo fupi na sikuona hata yule mtoto wa kijiji akienda kumwangalia chini na walikuwa wakivaa nguo fupi, mbona nyinyi na mmesoma mnafanya hivyo? Mwataka kuwa na tamaa ambayo haijulikani ni ya aina gani. Naomba---
Hon. (Ms.) Wanjira, I want to be sure about something and that is not to lighten anything. You are saying, “ Mbona nyinyi? ” are you referring to your colleagues here, or you are speaking---
Very well, we will have hon. Mumo of Makueni.
Asante Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda, kwa kunipatia nafasi hii niweze kuchangia katika mada hii. Nashukuru Mhe. Shebesh kwa kuweza kuleta mjadala huu kwa sababu jambo ambalo lilitokea katika nchi yetu ya Kenya lilikuwa ni jambo la huzuni na aibu kwa kina mama. Kusema kweli, kila mtu amesikitishwa na jambo ambalo limetokea kwa wasichana hawa ambao wamevuliwa nguo. Ni vyema tukaangalie ni vipi ambavyo mambo kama haya yameanza kutendeka hasa katika sehemu za umma za kuweza kupanda magari ama watoto
42 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 wetu mahali wanatembea. Waliofanya kitendo hicho, ni kitendo cha kusikitisha sana. Ni kitendo cha aibu na ndio maana nimesema nichangie kwa Kiswahili wale ambao wako kwa lugha hii ya Kitaifa waweze kuelewa ya kwamba akina mama mioyo yetu inavuja damu kwa kuona watoto wetu wakitendewa vitendo vya unyama ambavyo ni vya kuvuliwa nguo. Ni kama tabia zimeanza kuzorota ama tabia zimeanza kuharibika. Labda inaweza kutokana na ulezi mbaya wa hawa watoto. Kama inavyokusudika ni kwamba mwanamke anafaa kuvuliwa nguo mahali ambapo ni ndani ya chumba kama anaangaliwa na daktari hospitalini ama ni mume wake anamtoa nguo lakini sio kumtoa nguo barabarani. Hii ni kuonyesha ya kwamba tabia imeanza kuharibika. Jambo hili tunalilaumu kabisa na tunasema ni vibaya na tunasema likome. Wanawake wapewe heshima kwa maana msichana huyo aliyetolewa nguo, kesho atakuwa ni mama ya huyo anayemtoa nguo. Kesho ataweza kuwa pia ni dada wa mwingine. Ni vibaya kwa maana hao wanaotoana nguo wajue ya kwamba pia watakuwa na wasichana wao. Na sijui kama vile wenzangu wamechangia ni vipi ambavyo mtu anafaa kuvaa? Ni vipi ambavyo mtu anasema ni fupi na nyingine ni ndefu? Wanaume huvaa nguo vibaya. Wengine kama vile mwenzangu Mheshimiwa amesema, wanavaa suruali zinateremka lakini hatushughuliki na wao. Wengine wanavaa suruali zimewabana kabisa na unaona anatembea na akina mama hatushughuliki na wao. Basi ningesema ya kwamba mabinti zetu hata kama tunaona wamevaa nguo vibaya, kidogo tunasema kwamba wana masikio, waelezwe kwa maana nchi ya Kenya ni nchi ambayo iko huru. Nashukuru Makamu wa Rais ambaye alisema ya kwamba watu hawa washikwe. Ninaamini ya kwamba kama wenzangu ambao walitangulia kusema ya kwamba ikifikia siku ya Ijumaa, tuweze kusikia ya kwamba wameshikwa wawili ama watatu na wamefunguliwa mashtaka. Tutashukuru sana kuona ya kwamba hatua hii imechukuliwa kwa vikali kabisa na ningependa tukiwa kama akina mama tupewe heshima kwa maana akina mama ni watu ambao wanapendeza sana wakiwa katika dunia hii. Bila akina mama, dunia haiwezi nzuri. Kwa hivyo, tupatiwe uhuru wa kutembea na kufurahia maumbile yetu na jinsi ambavyo tunavaa nguo. Asante sana; naunga mkono mada hiyo.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Today is a very sad day for this nation. We have dealt with many forms of gender-based violence for the past ten years or so that I have been in this House but never have we had to talk about a woman being stripped in public for what somebody else considers to be indecent dressing. My heart goes out to those two ladies who had to face the wrath of a mob of close to 100 or more men surrounding them, stripping them naked, pinching them, beating them and doing all manner of things you can imagine. This is worse than rape. When I look at today’s social media, they are giving the story of a girl again who was stripped naked in Kayole yesterday, at around 7.00 p.m. They say she was stripped by a man who approached her and she refused to accept his advances. She was stripped, frog marched to the middle of the road and beaten up like a dog. That is what they are saying here and it is only a policeman on patrol who saved that girl. But today she has succumbed to those injuries at Mama Lucy Hospital. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, how much more of this can we allow to happen in this country? I have heard many men including some Members of this House saying it is wrong to strip, “but you ladies must dress decently”. I am asking; who defines decent dressing? This is because what is decent to you cannot be decent to another person. If we leave this to the definition of mwananchi, what are we exposing our women to? These women are your wives, sisters and aunties. They are your constituents for heaven’s sake. So, if we say that we have to
43 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 define decent dressing, then it can only come from this House. Remember what the mother of all laws – the Constitution says. It says everybody has a right to dress as they wish. So, let us not allow criminals to define dressing for the women of this country. I keep asking: When did women begin to wear miniskirts? Is it yesterday? Is it last Friday when the first incident of stripping took place? If you look at pictures of our mothers and sisters in the 1970s, they wore miniskirts that we cannot wear today and yet nobody stripped them. We must push for the law to be implemented. I want to tell the Inspector- General of Police and I can see they have already started arresting, that we want to see people in court. We need penalties and measures taken against those culprits so that we can deter any further stripping going forward. This, hon. Members, I want to tell you can happen to anybody known to you and it is very painful. Let us not play jokes about it. These are serious matters. It is very traumatising for any woman to through that. Any assault in public is traumatising. Let us protect and defend the dignity of the Kenyan woman wherever she is and whatever she wears because that is her right. With those remarks, I want to thank you, hon. Shebesh for finding it fit to bring this Motion. I look forward to the day the hon. Members will march on the streets and say no to these forms of criminality. Thank you.
Hon. Member for Teso South.
Order, Members! We are following a certain sequence. Male hon. Members will get their opportunity.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Hon. Members, I have the Floor. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, can you protect me?
Order, hon. Members!
Thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this very important Motion. Indeed, it is very sad that in the 21st Century this is still happening to women in this country.
Honestly, hon. Members, I realise that we now have about 25 minutes only. The less you talk, the better so that other Members can contribute. Let us have as little contributions as possible from hon. Members. Proceed.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Living free from violence is a human right. It is the obligation of every society and Government to ensure that they protect victims and also punish perpetrators of violence against any individual. I think I want to congratulate His Excellency the Deputy President for coming out strongly and denouncing what happened and recommending action to be taken against those criminals who committed that crime against our ladies. Surprisingly, it is not the first time women are being stripped. Statistics have it that out of every three women globally, one woman has a story to say about violence. Either she has been raped or she has been oppressed.
44 Tuesday 18th November, 2014
Hon. Cheboi): Order, hon. Nyamai! Are you on a point of order?
Hon. Cheboi): Okay. So, finalise, Member for Teso South.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. We are tired of this. This is not about indecency, inappropriate and provocative dressing; it is about violence against women. We have seen men sagging their trousers and walking bare-chested. This amounts to discrimination against women. It is high time we said no to this. It cannot continue. It is unacceptable. We have just heard that these girls, from the experience, are so traumatized that they cannot even report. So, what happens? This continues to happen and it therefore, limits their choices and encourages this violence to continue happening against women. We do not support it. Therefore, I support the Motion by hon. Shebesh and I hope all the Members are going to support it.
Hon. Cheboi): Very well, let us have the Deputy Minority Leader, kindly, so that we can share the slots.
Thank you, Temporary Deputy Speaker. I realise that time is limited. Let me plead with my colleagues to stop lamenting. The answer to this absurdity is in this House. Of everybody who has spoken, other than a couple of Members who have referred to the Constitution, I have not heard anybody do the work of Parliament. Everybody knows that rape is absurd. What are we doing as a House? We cannot live in a lawless country. How is it that if I was a policeman and a picture is flashed on television, I can know that is so and so? That area has policemen and CID officers. Why was the person not arrested yesterday? The picture is so clear. We are being protected by a dysfunctional police force and this House has a duty to fix it. I know there are political challenges, but we have a duty, through other means, to protect Kenyans.
Rape is rape, whether it is stripping a woman her pair of jeans or tights; it is wrong. We need to stand up and address the issues as a House. It would be nice in a session like this for us to give Kenyans hope. What are we going to do? I have just been looking at the Sexual Offences Act and I am going to be proposing changes. There is no way you can do something like what happened in Mombasa and today in Nairobi without facing a death penalty. These are people who do not belong in society. In many jurisdictions they are castrated, but we should go beyond that.
Let us kill them. Let me tell Members of Parliament that if the police have refused to do their work, we should do ours. I want to plead with hon. Shebesh, because I know she is a strong legislator that if this happens in Nairobi and she knows the stage, if the police are not doing their work, she should take the law in her hands to protect women. Two months ago, a young lady who rides a motorbike in Yala went to fuel at night, but the fuel station was closed. She went to keep her motorcycle in Yala Police Station. The police officer on night duty attempted to rape her and went ahead to say that nobody can do anything to him. It should not take a Member of Parliament to demonstrate to protect an innocent girl. We cannot live in a lawless society. Members of Parliament must help us.
45 Tuesday 18th November, 2014
If you take the case of Anglo Leasing, why are foreigners investigating it on us? It is because our systems are not working. We should talk about solutions and not lament. If you lament about the young girls on the streets yet you have power, what do you expect them to do? We can come here with a law tomorrow and jail these people who were on site. Even a negligent police officer, we can murder them with those people. It is not fair what is happening---
Let us not use the term “murder them”; it is un-parliamentary.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, let me end by saying that, the late hon. Michuki - may God rest his soul in eternal peace. When Mungiki had taken over bus stages and were humiliating all Kenyans from all walks of life, he took a stand. What is the Cabinet Secretary in charge of internal security doing? Why has he not gone there and arrested somebody? In 1972, in hon. Gumbo’s Constituency, one police officer was killed. They brought General Service Unit. Why is GSU in Kapedo? Why is GSU not in Dandora and Mombasa? I Support this Bill, but I am a disappointed Kenyan.
I will now take it upon myself to ensure that you speak appropriately because we are beginning to repeat ourselves. I can see there is a lot of interest. I want to give chance to a few more hon. Members then lastly, it will be the Leader of Majority Party. I will start with hon. (Ms.) Fathia. I have also been informed that there is one hon. Member who has contrary opinion, so we might have to give him also an opportunity. Hon. Fathia, the Floor is yours and please make it two minutes.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. I want to support this Motion. I am wondering why up to now the criminals have not yet been arrested. It is unfortunate. Where are the policemen? I heard the Inspector-General saying that the girl should report the matter. After watching that clip, who can dare go to the police? If she could have gone to the police station, I am sure those policemen would have asked her, “ wewe mama, by the time you were walking like that---” They would have traumatized her even more. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I do not understand why those girls are subjected to violence. Why are they getting traumatized? It is a human rights issue to live without violence. There is a better way to address issues. If people feel that girls are not dressing properly, they should have better ways of advising them rather than stripping them naked. I do not support that.Thank you.
We will have hon. Odhiambo- Mabona. As you go there and, because we are saving on time, I will give the hon. Member for Kiharu.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I am already there First of all, I want to take this opportunity to congratulate hon. Shebesh for bringing this Motion. I wish to strongly condemn the acts that were perpetrated against these women. I was just taking the opportunity to look at the Sexual Offences Act and the wording of “complainant”. I agree with hon. Midiwo that we may need to bring an amendment because it only allows a complainant who is a child or anybody else to bring a complaint against a person who is a child.
46 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 Having said that, I want to encourage hon. Mbarire who is the Chairperson of KEWOPA, together with hon. Shebesh; if the Inspector- General refuses to take up this matter to charge the suspects, then we should file a case charging the Inspector-General for failing to exercise due diligence. We are not going to have men threatening women all the time. This is not just an issue of dressing. Last week, I, hon. Odhiambo-Mabona, hon. Member for Mbita, got threats that I am going to be stripped because I have a differing opinion on political issues with some people. I have just told hon. Midiwo that it is unfortunate for them. If you strip me, I will wear my high heels and catwalk. However, for the sake of other women who cannot cat walk, let them not dare joke with our women. They should not try to indignify. I want to agree with the hon. Member who said that women must dress decently, decently according to who? I was going to dress in a miniskirt, but because it is cold, I have worn a long dress with a slit. When I wear a long dress, hon. Duale may decide that I am indecently dressed because I am not wearing a Hijab . So, if we decide to follow standards, then it means half of women in this country are indecently dressed and they should be stripped. Standards of dressing according to who? My mother who was a staunch Christian and the most decent woman I have ever known, has a photo of a miniskirt which even me, as daring as I am, cannot wear. So, let us not go into what is decent or not. If you think your child is dressed indecently, tell him. Do not even tell your wife because she is an adult. With those remarks, I support.
Hon. Member for Kiharu Constituency, the Floor is yours.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. In Isiolo Girls Secondary School, there is a child who was suspended because of wearing a Buibui. The other day, there was a child with dreadlocks at Rusinga High School. That child was sent home for wearing dreadlocks. Kenya High School has been blocking students who wear
How come, you hon. Members, are not raising that issue? How come you are only fixated with women who are half naked. That is very unfair. If at all you believe in the doctrine that anyone should dress the way he or she wants, then we should wear T-shirts or come without clothes to Parliament. If you believe in that doctrine, do not just restrict yourself to women who do not wear appropriately. Why are you not looking at people with dreadlocks? Why are you not looking at children who have been sent away from schools? We are talking about children who have been sent away from school for wearing whatever they want. Therefore, in my own opinion, we are being hypocritical in these arguments.
Order, hon. Members!
I do not believe that anyone should dress the way he or she wants. If you take that notion, fine, that will be very good. People will be coming here with dreadlocks, boxers and we do not know what other forms of dressing they could wear.
47 Tuesday 18th November, 2014
Order, hon. Members!
Allow me to submit.
Order, hon. Kang’ata! Order, hon. Members! We are wasting a lot of time that could be used to contribute. Hon. Kang’ata has his right to speak in his manner and we will give him an opportunity. You have finalized and that is it. Hon. (Ms.) Tuya, the Floor is yours.
Allow him to finalize.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity. I wish to say that, as hon. Members of Parliament, we should be providing solutions. It is sad for an hon. Member to stand here and point fingers at other hon. Members of Parliament. If you feel like there is something wrong happening out there, it is your responsibility to correct it. I wish to congratulate hon. (Ms.) Shebesh for bringing up this Motion. What we are seeing ---
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, protect me and the whole House from hon. Diriye and the hon. Member for Suba Constituency. As I support this Motion, I wish to say that, what we are witnessing is some form of intolerance against women by men of a certain caliber.
It is also an excuse for people to say that this is happening because of indecency on the part of women. We have seen cases of babies being raped in this country unless we do not know and have not been reading the news or watching television. We have seen babies below five months of age being raped. What indecency can a baby exhibit to warrant the intrusive abhorrent behavior that we are seeing in our men folk? We have seen old women of over 90 plus years who are being raped. What indecency will that old woman exhibit to warrant such behaviour? What we are seeing is pure criminal behaviour. It is pervasion on the part of men and we cannot sit back and watch as it is being visited upon innocent women. Hon Temporary Deputy Speaker, allow me to say that hon. Shebesh called out on the women affected to come out and report. I wish to say that as a lawyer and as a Member of Parliament, I am offering myself. I am sure my sister hon. Kajuju here, my brother hon. Kaluma and my sister hon. Millie Odhiambo, will offer free legal advice to these women as they come out to prosecute this matter so that we bring an end to this once and for all. Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I take this opportunity first to condemn whatever happened. The stripping of those young girls was very ashaming. It just shows the rot in our society which is very grave stretching from every corner of our society, including the courts. It is not only those ladies who dress in a very light way. Even girls who dress in Hijabs dress lightly. I have a court ruling here where girls were stopped from
48 Tuesday 18th November, 2014 wearing Hijabs in school. Our society should condemn in equal measure those who are stripping girls and women in the streets because that cannot be tolerated. Honestly as a Muslim, if a woman dresses indecently, it is up to her. I am wondering what type of men those are because as a Muslim, I am not even allowed to touch her. So, why are they touching the ladies? What is wrong with those men? That was very bad and must be condemned. Our society is so rotten because if you watch those videos, and I was just watching them in my phone right now, you can see the place is surrounded by many men. The lady was desperately running for safety to them and nobody was concerned. So, you see the rot in society from the top to the bottom. So, I think it is high time our society evaluated itself and we really do the right thing. If we continue allowing this, next time I may be wearing a kanzu in town on a Friday and I may be confronted by some group of young men who are intolerant. This is because society has become intolerant. The society is decayed. When I wear a k anzu coming to Parliament, and you know I live in a place where there are no Muslims somewhere near Kileleshwa, I can even fear for my life that my kanzu can be stripped. So, this is very bad. I condemn those judges in the court who refuse to support young girls wearing Hijabs in schools, in Parliament and in the streets. People should be allowed to dress the way they want. This is very intolerant. Thank you very much.
Very well, hon. Mwaura and I want to restrict you.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. There is no way you can say that while on one hand we actually condemn violence. Waswahili husema kwamba chemachajiuza na kibaya chajitembeza”.
This country has got some decency and moral values to protect. There is no way you can say that the onus of self restraint is only on men. Women also have a responsibility to dress well. Since men are visual beings, they are stimulated by what they see.
The truth of the matter is---
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, can you protect me? For you to be—
For you to be indecently dressed to provoke men because of perversion, it is totally unacceptable.
Order, hon. Mwaura!
Hon. Waititu, you have a minute!
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I thank you for giving me this chance.
Order! Order! Hon. Mwaura, you shall leave the Chamber immediately!
Proceed, hon. Waititu.
49 Tuesday 18th November, 2014
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this chance. It is true that we have mothers, sisters and our own daughters at home. What has happened is very hurting. I watched the video with a group of men and women in my home area. I saw women shed tears yesterday night in Juja because of what happened to those sisters of ours. As we have heard from hon. Shebesh, this is very hurting. I am also trying to appreciate what hon. Jakoyo Midiwo said. We have a police station next to the place where that incident occurred. We have the Officer Commanding Station (OCS). As law makers, we are supposed to have dealt with the OCS. We should remember that girls in Nairobi are not protected. Somebody says that they should go and report to the police. However, the harassment that they get at the police stations is unbearable. I have seen it in my constituency. When a man goes to a police station to report an incident, he is taken more seriously than a woman. These are some of the things in respect of which we said that we need reforms in the police service. If police officers are really protecting women in this country, such incidents should not be happening.
Hon. Members, we will finally have a wrap-up from the Leader of Majority Party.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, allow me to, first, give my sympathy to the party that nominated hon. Mwaura. That party nominated him to come to this House to protect the interests of marginalised groups. It is very shameful that he is doing the contrary. However, because of his history of the “men-in-black” incident at Kasarani, this House can forgive him.
The problem that the women in Kenya have is bigger than what we are discussing here. I agree with hon. Jakoyo Midiwo that serious amendments to the existing legislation must be brought to this House. Women’s interests have not been taken seriously. Women in the country today continue to suffer as a result of Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) even though an anti- FGM law has been enacted by this House. Knives continue doing the round, and women are suffering. Women continue to suffer as they use the public transport system – in matatus. Even those women whose rights are anchored in their religion continue to suffer. The law is very clear about Muslim girls in school. There is a very serious social problem in our country as far as the rights of women are concerned.
In the last Parliament, I was one of the Members who insisted that the Deputy Inspector- General of Police be a woman. I do not know what Grace Kaindi is doing for the women of Kenya. She got that position on the basis of the law that we passed here to make sure that if policemen fail to arrest those who violate the rights women, one of their own ensures that such perpetrators are brought to book. I do not know why people are blaming Kimaiyo. They should also blame Grace Kaindi.
All of them are culpable!
All of them?
Let us say that Kimaiyo did what we are accusing him of. What happens to his deputy? Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, the right to dress is fundamental. Family and religious values are acquired at the family level. We should not blame women for the way they dress. We had better blame their parents and the religious leaders of this country. There is a serious issue that the religious community of our community and the security people must deal with.
50 Tuesday 18th November, 2014
Leader of Majority Party, we have overshot our time. Please, wind up.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, as the Leader of Majority Party, I want to say that we will bring serious amendments to the existing laws to protect the women of Kenya. Protection of women cannot effectively be done through street demonstrations and Motions for Adjournment. We must legislate to protect our mothers, daughters and sisters.
Hon. Members, it is now time for interruption of our business. Therefore, the House stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, 19th November, 2014 at 9.30 a.m.
The House rose 6.30 p.m.
51 Tuesday 18th November, 2014