Order, hon. Senators. We need to determine if we have a quorum.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are ten Senators in the House. So, there is no quorum.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we now have 15 Senators. We have a quorum.
Let us commence business.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, pursuant to Standing Order 174 (1) (d), the Senate approves the following Senators to be Members of the Rules and Business Committee:- 1. Sen. David Ekwee Ethuro - Speaker of the Senate - Chairperson 2. Sen. (Prof.) Kithure Kindiki - Senate Majority Leader 3. Sen. Moses Masika Wetangula - Senate Minority Leader The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order No. 7: Statements.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to respond to a Statement which was sought on 3rd December, 2013 by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., regarding the Makutano- Kikima-Tawa Road. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the question was---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I know that every Senator is expected to be in the House when a Sitting is going on, but I do notice---
I am sorry. I thought that he was not in the Chamber, since he normally sits here. I was going to ask for the Statement to be made when Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior is in the Chamber, but I can see that he has shifted where he normally sits.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, he has already consulted.
Order! Order, Sen. Mwazo! This is a new Session of the House and so, in the business of today we are going to stick to only one issue, that of constituting the Committee, which, as per Standing Order 174 (4), gives the functions of that Committee. So, we should deal with the Committee, which will then help us to prioritize this issue. So, we will ask you to wait for communication from my office. Next Order!
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, pursuant to Standing Order 174 (1) (d), the Senate approves the following Senators to be Members of the Rules and Business Committee:- 1. Sen. David Ekwee Ethuro - Speaker of the Senate - Chairperson The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I second the Motion. As you can see, the list is exactly what we presented to this House at the beginning of the last Session. Of course, at some point, proposed Member Number Three was rudely interrupted in his continuing membership, but is now back. I want to urge the House to approve the list so that the Committee can immediately retreat to a meeting to set the agenda of Business starting tomorrow morning. My very able deputy has pointed out to me that there is lack of diversity in terms of northern Kenya not being represented, but I have also reminded him the basic principle in law that having supported the list last time, he is stopped from opposing it now.
I urge that we do support the list and move on to create Business for the House. I beg to second.
Order! Order, Senators! We must remain calm at all times!
Deputy Senate Minority Leader!
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I stand to support this Motion. In a very low tone, I whispered to my leader the fact that Sen. (Prof.) Kithure said that there was regional diversity, and it would be very important not to set precedence that may not be very good in the future. But because this House is mainly built on consensus building; it is a House that operates not along alliances and factions, I have decided to actually support it in the interest of the Kenyans we serve. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I stand to support this Motion with a lot of reservation because this debate is being listened to by Kenyans and when the Leader of Opposition says that we have taken care of diversity---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I know that Sen. Haji is my senior and I have a lot of respect for him. I was just wondering whether he is properly The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order! Sen. Haji, would you like to respond to that?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think the response would be yours. I would like to continue with my debate. I want to advise Sen. Murkomen that he can also come with the Kalenjin skin next time if he wants, and I am sure the Speaker will accept it.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is unfortunate that while you were trying to give us a bit of time to ventilate so as to make a proper decision, the hon. Senator has chosen to reduce it to an ethnic matter. This is about the decency, integrity and the seriousness placed on the Senate of the Republic of Kenya. With all due respect, even the Luhya have their traditional regalia and if we choose to bring here traditional regalia, there are even those who might choose to come here half naked, and the Standing Orders insist that we must cover our bodies to a particular degree. Mr. Speaker, Sir, even in beach hotels, if you cover yourself the way he is covering himself, you will not be allowed into the dining hall.
Order! Sen. Yusuf Haji, just relax a bit; let us allow one intervention from Sen. Abdirahman Hassan.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is always good for hon. Members to understand the difference between traditional regalia and a mode of dress that befits the standard of this House, like the one Sen. Haji has put on. In fact, for the interest of the hon. Members, those two go together – the turban you see right on Sen. Haji’s shoulder and the kanzu. In fact, he has left the kofia behind, save for the rungu or the bakora, which is not accepted in the House. They go together in terms of the standard procedures and forms in which he is supposed to dress. I think you ruled the last time – when I had put on the kanzu and kofia myself – and it is very clear. So, this is going to be very important for us to understand. Thank you.
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Mr. Speaker, Sir, I should be protected. I was on the Floor. I was just going to conclude---
Order, Sen. Haji! You will be protected.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir
However, we cannot protect you from certain interventions, especially when the Chair gave you the opportunity maybe to describe the circumstances in which you are dressed the way you are, so that you could help the Chair. So, let others maybe help the Chair to see how we can dispose of your matter. Sen. (Dr.) Machage!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I hope you heard the point of order from Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, where he--- Is he in order to suggest that traditional regalia is indecent in any way?
Sen. Zipporah Kittony!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was also tempted to rise on a point of order when I saw him putting on the shawl, because this is what we normally wear, but I did not know how to bring it up. This is what women wear in the evening when it is cold.
Really, I think the House needs to be properly guided; if it is the official attire, then we have to understand. I nearly asked him to lend it to me because this is normally what we use in the evening.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir
Order, Sen. Haji! Let us get the last one from Sen. Ongera, and then I will give you an opportunity to give your own assessment.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir
In fact, I hope and beseech the Chair to make a ruling that many of our male Senators could take a cue from Sen. Haji.
Personally, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think he is very well dressed and it is something---
Order! Order! You are now arguing for his case instead of raising your point of order. What is it, Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o?
In his reply to how he is dressed, can Sen. Haji assure us of what lies under that kanzu ?
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Mr. Speaker, Sir
Order, Sen. Haji! Who is your friend, Olof?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is the Senator for Wajir County. I think in the Eighth Parliament, the Speaker ruled that we can wear our traditional dress. It came as a result of people wearing kanzus, and it was accepted. Secondly, Mr. Speaker, Sir---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Can you, please, just allow me to finish?
Respond to some of them and then I will allow the Senate Minority Leader.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I cannot help Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale; if they do not have a dress, he can stay naked the way he wants to be.
Sen. Zipporah, you can check me tonight to see whether I am a man or I am like you. You can check it!
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen. Wetangula?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a House of rules and we are guided strictly by the rules that we make. It is irrelevant and immaterial whether Sen. Haji is very smart according to my very able Deputy Whip here or he is looking very smart like he is, but what is very important is the observance of the rules. The Speaker’s Rules promulgated at the beginning of this Senate, Rule No.5 (2) says the following:- “Senators are required not to enter the Chamber, lounge or dinning room without being properly dressed.” This means that the Senator shall be dressed in a coat, which he is not, collar shirt, which he is not, tie, which he is not, long trousers, which I do not know, socks, which I do not know, shoes--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Can we inspect!
Order, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki.
Shoes, service uniform or decent national dress for men and an equivalent standard for women. Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. Murkomen is definitely right. Senator Yusuf Haji, the distinguished Senator for Garissa is dressed in a manner that does not fit in the description set out and allowed by the rules promulgated by the Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to encourage that if we have to be serious, then we must observe our rules. It is not a question of coming here smart. Tomorrow the distinguished Senator for Nandi will come here wearing a Colobus monkey skin on his head and we will say that he is smart looking, so I urge that you enforce the rules strictly and rule that the distinguished Senator for Garissa is actually not properly dressed for this Sitting.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I completely differ with my leader in the interpretation of Rule No.5. What Sen. Haji has put on is not only a national dress but an international dress.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Allow me to finish. I am on a point of order.
Proceed, Sen. Abdirahman.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. We cannot be crafting new rules this morning. Precedence has been set in successive parliaments including this current Senate. You can confirm from the HANSARD that Sen. Kittony raised this issue when I had put on a kanzu, although it is true I had a coat, on top of the kanzu . The kanzu goes along with a trouser - for those who may not understand - and it goes with the shawl. The shawl is the turban. If one is ignorant about the form of dressing, it is important for others to educate them and I think we will offer free lessons to those who will not be able to understand. At this stage, I plead for your considered opinion on this matter as it is going to affect even the future. We will not even ask you to rule today but kindly give us a considered opinion on this matter to avoid certain aspersions that are being cast against senior leaders, especially the Sultans, like my brother Sen. Haji.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I know my colleague was on a point of order but is it in order for any Member to insinuate that the international standards are higher than Kenyan standards because the rules speak about a national dress with Kenyan standards? Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also think that the Deputy Minority Leader, if he so wishes to introduce amendments to the rules, should follow the usual procedure, but as it is, my reading of the rules ably guided by the Leader of the Minority, I doubt whether my senior is well dressed.
I have listened to the contributions by the Senators on whether the Senator for Garissa County is properly dressed. I want to agree that this House has rules and we must comply with them. The issue in contest to me will be The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will abide by whatever direction given but I think this is an onslaught on my religion as a Muslim. I wear a kanzu in weddings and I can wear any dress as a Muslim, that is, either this kanzu and a kofia . If I am going to be banned to wear this, then I will resign as a Senator because it is an onslaught on my religion as a Muslim.
Order, Sen. Haji! First, I had already made a ruling which you should comply with. Secondly, all along, it has been nice especially for day one. So I do not know where the transformation took place from being the good law abiding citizen of the Republic to entertain other virtues which you know you are full of. I would urge you for the time being to take everything in good counsel and wait for the ruling to be made. If you are convinced the way you are trying to convince us and also from precedence, I do not think you have a lot to be worried about.
I oblige, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Even if you tell me to go out, I will go even now.
Order! We cannot entertain further debate on a Member of this House. I have already made my ruling. He is, of course, inviting me to make another ruling and I will deny him that chance that he is looking for because I had already ruled that we will be happy with you. I can see the body language of Sen. Leshore and Sen. Elachi who usually do not occupy that position, which means that they may be enjoying your company too. Sen. (Dr.) Machage!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I support the list that has been tabled to us in the House, I would want to make a few observations. Yes, it is true that we have Members who, by virtue of their positions, must belong to this Committee but I have restrained my mind from venturing into the thinking that it could be an issue of bankruptcy on the ability of other Members that the same list has to be tabled on the Floor of this House or it is because of laziness that the selectors had to go to the same list of last year. I hope it is not one of the above. The sentiments expressed by Senators that we want Members from other regions of this country also to occupy some of these positions because of the distribution of our communities in this country must be emphasized in the selection of other committees henceforth. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity. I want to urge this House to support the names that have been read out. I want to say that for continuity of the activities of the Senate, this hon. Senators have been doing a great job in the sense that they do not even miss their meetings; they are there on time to set the agenda of this House. I want to say that it is not because other Members are unable to do the job. I am a Member of this team but what I am saying is that any Member here is able to transact the business of this House. It is for the sake of continuity that the Members have been retained. I believe that the Members who are going to be selected for respective committees will also be retained for continuity because if you keep on changing membership of committees, then we lose track of events. For example, if the names of the Members in the Committee in charge of finance are changed, definitely in one way or another, it will affect its operations. Therefore, I want to urge my colleagues, especially Sen. (Dr.) Machage, that these Members are like you. You are able to sit in this Committee and transact business but for the sake of moving forward, let us urge this House to support this list and approve it.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for this opportunity. I want to thank the Leader of Majority along with the Leader of Minority for seeing wisdom in retaining the same list that we had last session. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had an opportunity to sit in the House Business Committee in the last Parliament and there were times when we could come down to the Floor of the main Chamber when we do not have business but in spite of the teething problems of a new Senate, this Committee over the last session has ensured that on every day that we met, there was business. So, there is every reason why we should return the whole Committee as it was. As I support this particular Motion, I am touched by one thing; that God was very kind to all of us. We were never admitted in hospital and never died during the long recess and we have come back. More importantly, during our long recess, you were forced, because of the dictates of the Constitution of Kenya, to reassemble us here and we came happily to deliberate on the unprecedented issue of the Motion of impeachment. I want to thank all colleagues that we voted almost 100 per cent for the impeachment of the Governor to send a clear message across the whole country that the Senate of the Republic of Kenya does not condone corruption. Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you may allow me, because there is a bit of room for me to go the route I want to go, as a result of that, we are now faced with almost something resembling a constitutional crisis. This is over the standoff between the Senate, the National Assembly on one hand and the Judiciary on the other hand. Maybe as this Committee goes into office, they will take deliberate steps so that we put our Judiciary under focus for them to remember all the time, that while they are seated in their high offices, just like all other arms of Government, they are also supposed to respect the rule of law. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Machage?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the rule of irrelevance, is the hon. Senator in order to go that way in his presentation when we are discussing the issue of tabling names of this serious Committee of the House?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, indeed, I know the rule of relevance, but I started by begging you and the whole House, just as I congratulated them on the vote that we took, for me to make a synopsis into the performance of the Judiciary. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was concluding that the pending cases---
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! You will conclude. Let me just dispose of the point of order that was raised by Sen. (Dr.) Machage. That concern crossed my mind as well, but I looked at the provisions of Standing Order No.174; part (1) which is on names. Standing Order No.174 (1) (2) and in particular Part (4) which gives the functions of the Committee. Standing Order No.174 (4)(g) says:- “The Rules and Business Committee– (g) shall consider such matters as may from time to time arise in connection with the business of the Senate and shall have and perform such powers and functions as are conferred on and ascribed to it by these Standing Orders or from time to time by the Senate.” So, these issues that the Senator is raising have arisen in the course of the business we have transacted in the House. It was this kind of committee that was bringing that business to the House. So, in terms of relevance, in my view, this is extremely relevant.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I was concluding with this particular point which I want to share with my colleagues; that according to the Economic Survey of Kenya, 2013, the number of pending cases in the Judiciary has risen dramatically by 173 per cent, from 42,000 cases to 114, 000 cases. This simply brings to mind the fact that our Judiciary, as tough and as generous as they are in dishing out The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also rise to support the Motion. I am confident that the distinguished hon. Senators whose names are listed here will be able to run the business of this House very well. Even as we start this year, it is becoming very clear that the role of the Senate is in fact, far much wider than we had thought when this House was inaugurated in March, 2013. What has become very clear is that in addition to oversight of the national responsibilities, the Senate has a wider responsibility when you look at the 47 county governments. So, in determining the business of this House, this Committee needs to address itself to the emerging challenges in the counties. These counties are new and there are many challenges in terms of management, administration of resources and setting up of appropriate legal databases within the county assemblies. So, there is a lot of work to be done. The nation is looking up to this House to build the capacity of the county assemblies and county governments, to ensure that devolution succeeds. Mr. Speaker, Sir, particularly in the area of making laws, we have seen recently when we were on recess the issues of revenue raising measures that came up. A countless number of counties in this country came up with many pieces of legislation in the name of Finance Acts that created wide disparities between the fees, rates and taxes that are being charged across this country yet clearly in the Public Finance Management Act, they are not empowered to enact any law on revenue raising measures before they get them reviewed by the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRS) and the Treasury. This is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Hon. Senators, let us try to be brief because these are really procedural matters. Let us hear Sen. Wako.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. I will be brief. From the outset, I support the proposal that we appoint these Members. They performed very well last year, having been our first year. They ensured that we had business at hand to be handled. If I can remember, they also undertook a very comprehensive review of the Standing Orders. Generally, they deserve another appointment. Mr. Speaker, Sir, going forward, I believe that towards the end of the session there should be some changes. I am saying this because there is a difference between a Standing Committee which is appointed for five years and a Sessional Committee; a Committee such as this one which is renewable yearly. I believe that was put there to ensure that there is some measure of changes in the Membership of the committee, so that as many Members of the Senate as possible should become Members of those committees and benefit from them. Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I support the reappointment of this Committee on the grounds that I have stated, that they have performed well, but maybe, on the other grounds, that we being the pioneers, we are now setting the precedents and traditions, committees should remain as they are for one or two years so that those precedents are set. However, looking into the future, there should be a way in which one or two Sessional Committees should retire and new ones appointed. This happens nowadays in many body corporate and committees both nationally and internationally. There is always a change over for continuity sake, but also to allow fresh blood to come in. Mr. Speaker, Sir, most of the appointments, of course, are by virtue of office. On the Membership of the Committee, of course, I must support the appointment of Sen. Keter and Sen. Ong’era. There appears to have been some traditions that are forming, that deputies should also be Members of this Committee. The only deputy who is not a Member of this Committee is the Senate Deputy Minority Leader who happens to come from the north. In future, two to three years from now, such issues should be considered. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also rise to support the list with the names of the Committee Members. This Committee has a team that has worked very closely to ensure that business within the Senate is generated and taken care of. As we move on, one of the things we will have to work on is to ensure that more Bills come to the House. I am sure that this team will ensure that this House will have serious business, and not just Motions, as we move on. We will also have to ensure that we complete our duty of revising the Standing Orders so that we do not get into the conflict we experienced this afternoon. Within our Standing Orders, I do not see an article that takes care of that. As we move on as a team, we want to urge other Committees that wanted to bring business in this House but were unable, just as Sen. Wako has said, to consider bringing in other Members so that they work as a team and they help one another. We want people to go into Committees where they can contribute what they have, what they believe in and what they understand. You may find somebody in a Committee where he or she is unable to perform just because that is not part of his or her background. I wish Members would come out and say what Committees they are better of working in and where they The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I just came in and found the mood in the House was that Members were supporting the reappointment of this Committee. I had, earlier on, planned to take a different dimension. Those Members who must sit there by virtue of the provisions of the Standing Orders, for instance, the Speaker, the Senate Majority Leader, the Senate Minority Leader and the Whips, the first five, should be renewed. However, the next seven should have been changed so that other Members can also get an opportunity to serve in this Committee. The reason for renewing the first five, of course, is for the institutional memory. However, at the end of the five years, we need as many Members as possible to have served in this important Committee. I, therefore, take the angle that my brother, Sen. Wako, the Senator for Busia, has taken, that in future, we should not just renew. We should give other Members an opportunity to serve in this Committee. However, since the mood is that we are supporting the renewal, I will join my colleagues. Let us give them support. They did a good job in the First Session that we had. It was a very challenging session; the inaugural one, they were the pioneers, charting the path and they did their work very well. There is no single day that we went without business. We had a very stimulating session and they came up with very good business for this House. The only quarrel I had with that Committee is that I brought two Motions that were rejected. I had a Motion where I wanted the Senate to form a Commission to inquire into the feuding tension between my county and Kisumu County, the Maseno Boundary. I wanted this matter to be resolved once and for all. I wanted the Senate to pass a Motion so that we have a Commission to look into this. I am sure that there are many other cases. I can hear Sen. Munyes saying that there are cases between the boundaries of Turkana and the Pokot. They should not shy away from approving such volatile Motions. It is our responsibility to resolve these matters as the House of Senate. We should take the bull by the horns and approve these Motions. Let us discuss them and see if we can come up with long lasting solutions to some of the problems affecting our people. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Hon Senators, it would be ideal if we concluded this by 4.00 pm. Therefore, I will give this chance to Sen. Murkomen. I hope the only two standing Members, Sen. Karaba and Sen. (Eng.) Karue Muriuki, will contribute.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. First, I rise to support this Motion. The reason behind the support for this Motion is that the men and women we have here are people of integrity. They have demonstrated their capabilities and abilities to lead this House under your leadership. Last year was very challenging. You had to make very difficult rulings. We had to take very difficult options including going for an advisory opinion in the Supreme Court. When we went for the advisory opinion, we had to be wise enough to ensure that our constitutional space, as Parliament, is not constricted. That is why under your leadership, we did not ask for an injunction or invalidation of legislations that were subject to discussion at that time. Mr. Speaker, Sir, you demonstrated very good leadership and this year, I would like to challenge the team. Your position is leadership. Setting business of the House is also leadership. I would like the Rules and Business Committee to encourage introduction of more Bills; whether Private Members’ Bills or through working with the Speaker of the National Assembly to ensure that the Bills are processed in a manner that the Constitution anticipates so that the two Houses dispose of legislation as required. It would also be good if the Rules and Business Committee can get an incentive for Members who work on Private Members’ Bills. Sometimes, take them somewhere where it is conducive where they can be locked in for about three or four days, working on the legislation so that this House has good business to carry forward. I want to commend Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and Sen. Sang for the very good job that they did last year. I would also like to thank Sen. (Dr.) Zani for her ongoing work and others, including myself, who are still in the drafting stage for working on certain legislation that made this House to be what it was last year. I believe that this year, we will delve into legislation related to roads, agriculture, veterinary services and health so that we strengthen and deepen devolution. I also want to commend this group because leadership includes legal leadership especially at this formative stage. This team is composed of distinguished legal scholars and practitioners led by the Senior Counsel, Sen. Orengo, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, the Senate Majority Leader and Sen. Wetangula, Sen. Ong’era and Sen. Murungi. The team is composed of the finest legal minds in the country. I am saying this with a lot of humility knowing that I am a young lawyer. I have only practiced for less than seven years. In the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to start by congratulating our Speaker for the very well organized Kamukunji this morning, which focused on the issues at hand. Let us keep up the spirit. Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is a big challenge. Some of the issues which have happened in the last few months, not least of all the impeachment of the Governor for Embu, some of the excesses of the Governors which have been noticed here and there, I think is a challenge for the Senate. We are now seeing gaps here and there, which the Senate has to fill. To that extent, I think that the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights has a special challenge, to fill in and bring to the Senate proposals, so that we can legislate on the gaps. For example, much as we went through the impeachment of Governor Wambora, there was still the issue of Embu County Assembly having brought the impeachment of both the Governor and the Deputy Governor. But when you look at the Constitution, it is not provided for. So, I think that there is need to specifically legislate for such eventualities in the future. Mr. Speaker, Sir, coming back to the matter at hand, I support the Motion. We need to approve this list and adopt it. However, I am of the same view as that of a few other Members that Sessional Committee are sessional. I think that they were made sessional deliberately for a purpose. So, much as we are in first year and face a lot of challenges, and therefore, maybe the Rules and Business Committee should proceed, I would propose that a specific policy is made in the Senate, so that the membership of the Sessional Committees changes in each Session, so that Members have diverse experiences of matters and sectors in the society. Mr. Speaker, Sir, lastly, there are certain issues also that we see, which, maybe, are not contained in the legislature. Maybe there is a way of containing them. For example, we have Governors who literally operate like the President. They want to move with sirens and in motorcades, maybe illegally. You will find others from upcountry coming to the city with their chase cars and sirens still blaring. I think that this is still the challenge of the Senate to ensure that some kind of rule or law is in place. If there is a meeting of Governors and all of them are invited to the city, you will find all of them coming in motorcades of ten vehicles, sirens and so on. I think that it is still the duty of the Senate to provide some kind of a legal or legislative framework on how they will operate. Mr. Speaker, Sir, with those few words, I beg to support.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to contribute to this Motion. I support the Motion and also wish the Members luck in this year’s calendar. Mr. Speaker, Sir, all the same, it has been expressed by many other Senators that, much as we agree that the team is complete and worked very well, it is also good to ensure that if you have heifers and some get old, you introduce others in the herd. You can phase out two Members and introduce two new Members. In the following year, you get two more coming in. I think that, that will add more flavour to the whole situation. Mr. Speaker, Sir, all the same, it is important that this Committee knows its mandate. I do not know whether it is only to meet and decide what happens with the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, hon. Senators! We had actually indicated that the last contributions would be from Sen. (Eng.) Karue and Sen. Karaba, but I see Sen. Orengo has, since then, acquired a bit of agility; and I think that effort must be recognized. So, I will give you one last chance.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I will not take a long time. Those who practise in the courts, like the Senate Minority Leader here, Sen. Wetangula, know that judges who have been in the courts for a long time are familiar with the phrase that “Parliament is forever wise;” that Parliament, in whatever it does, it does not do it in vain; that every word that Parliament uses in legislation, every comma and every full-stop must be given full effect and force because Parliament is forever wise. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was just looking at two Standing Orders that actually confirm that Parliament is not just forever wise, but Parliament is forever dignified and treats the other institutions of Government with a lot of dignity. I think it is important that whereas we treat them with that dignity, they should also reciprocate. I was looking at Standing Order No.88 and I was wondering why that Standing Order is there. It says:- “Neither the personal conduct of the President, nor the conduct of the Speaker or of any judge, nor the judicial conduct of any other person performing judicial functions, nor any conduct of the Head of State or Government or the representative in Kenya of any friendly country or the conduct of the holder of an office whose removal from such office is dependent upon a decision of the Senate shall be referred to adversely, except upon a specific substantive Motion of which at least three days’ notice has been given.” It does not stop there; under Standing Order No.90, this Senate cannot discuss a matter which is sub judice ; this Parliament cannot discuss something that is active in court; not only for purposes of the dignity of this House, but for purposes of the dignity of the other institutions of Government. In fact, under Standing Order No.90, it is not just protection to the Judiciary, but to some extent, protection even to the Executive when it relates to matters which are secret. So, what am I trying to say? I am saying that the other institutions of Government including the Judiciary, when it comes to matters which are actively before Parliament, they should stop and think before even thinking of making any orders in respect of a matter which is active in Parliament. Because what it does is that you cause prejudice to any citizen or to any processes that are ongoing, and there are a multiplicity of events taking place in various fora. So, that is why for a long time, we practiced law on the understanding that you cannot injunct Government as a whole, be it the Judiciary itself – because if a matter is active before a court of competent jurisdiction, you cannot really The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of information, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Senior Counsel, Sen. Orengo, do you want to be informed by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
It may be about bull fighting!
Thank you, Sen. Orengo, for accepting my information. This is so important that I am tempted to inform Sen. Orengo that in Uganda, where a very sensitive issue that captured the imagination of the international community – the issue that was touching on the rights of the so-called gays – the Chief Justice of Uganda completely kept quiet until now that the matter has been concluded by Parliament, is when now the Judiciary of Uganda wants to do what it was created to do – that is to interpret the decision by the Parliament of Uganda in denying the gays the rights that they have. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
I have been allowed, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was doing some reading on comparable issues and I want to inform Sen. Orengo – although I do not recommend that we go that route – but in Papua New Guinea, there is a provision in law that any judge or judicial officer who embarks on a misadventure and purports to injunct Parliament or officers of Parliament, risks to go to jail for seven years. I do not recommend we go that route, but it is good for them to know that in comparable jurisdictions, we have such legislation in place. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
I thank colleagues for all that information and I could not more than agree with that information. But there is another thing that is more important in this new dispensation under the current Constitution; that it is not just upon the Judiciary on its own to interpret the Constitution; even this House every day when we are discussing Motions and Bills, we are grappling with the law and with the Constitution. The Constitution under Article 10 requires of us to interpret the Constitution. When I am served with a court order, I have to examine that order. I do not just accept it; I have got to examine it, look at whether it is a proper order of the court, whether it has the seal; if it is in English, whether it makes any meaning; is it enforceable? Such considerations under Article 10 are extremely important. But the worst of it all is that, actually, an order can be illegal even from the Judiciary; and the Constitution requires of you to ensure that you abide, defend, safeguard and protect the Constitution. So that if the Speaker was served with an illegal order, you know, his first business is to purge that illegal order and not to obey it. This is a new Kenya that we are trying to create, not the old Kenya. An order is not just an order; we are not--- Even policemen now, the way they are trained, you cannot go and rob somebody of his personal belongings and you are saying that you are carrying out an order from “my superiors;” you will be accountable for your actions! But now, more importantly, Mr. Speaker, Sir – and that is why I love this Constitution – is that it says in Article 1(2), after saying “All sovereign power belongs to the people of Kenya”:- “The people may exercise their sovereign power either directly or through their democratically elected representatives.”
The Constitution delegates other functions – judicial, legislative or even executive – but when it comes to the exercise of sovereign power, it resides in the people first and secondly to Parliament. There has just been a revolution in Ukraine; it is Parliament which is taking care of that mess that is going on. In fact, the judges have disappeared; some of them are being hunted down for making illegal orders and jailing people who should not be in jail!
Let nobody forget that there was a time – and that is why we must be vigilant against every institution in this land – when people were being taken to courts in this country at midnight.
Courts were sitting at midnight. We do not want to go back there; and justice must not only be done, but it must be seen to be done! The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Senators. Having no more other contributor, I will now call upon the Mover to reply.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am grateful to all the colleagues who have spoken here in support of this Motion. Almost everybody who has spoken has supported the importance of having this Committee in place as soon as possible. Mr. Speaker, Sir, just allow me to highlight two or three things very briefly, just for purposes of clarity without necessarily regurgitating what the others have said. The first one is that we expect to see more business. I want to give this House an assurance that during this Session, you will see a lot of business especially from the majority side. Already, there are over six or seven Bills in different stages in the process of preparation to appear on the Floor of this House. Some of them had to be republished because they were published towards the end of the last session and the law requires that they lapse and have to be republished in the new session. Therefore, I stand here to just confirm what my brother and former student, Sen. Murkomen, said that we are really working. I want to thank the private Members who worked very hard in the last session to ensure that this House has a bit of legislation. The second thing I want to emphasize is the requirement that going forward, our business, hopefully, through the Rules and Business Committee (RBC) and your leadership, to concentrate on being firm on our dual responsibility of protecting counties on one hand and representing them but on the other hand demanding accountability. On this one, I think there is no compromise, there is no relenting, and there is no backing off. I want to register this one; my greatest thanks especially to my brother, Sen. Wetangula. For the record, in my earlier life as a junior lawyer, I worked with Moses Wetangula in his law firm and I think I must disclose that he is a man of immense intellect. Nevertheless having said so, I want to say that I was very impressed when he and the rest of his political team joined with us last week to emphasize that on the issue of accountability for counties, it has nothing to do with parties. It is not about Jubilee, it is not about CORD but the future of our country. So, I really respect Sen. Wetangula and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Yes; only. That tells you that in another ten years, we will be very far. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wanted to say that if we have come this far in 13 years, it means that in another ten, we will be very far. Let me emphasize this last point about where we are and in my view even as I move this Motion; the issue of Parliament, there is a big misapprehension. People, even in the legal fraternity, think that Parliament is some statutory body. They think that it is a parastatal whose decisions can be carried to the High Court. I heard my colleagues who came here mentioning that even as we discuss the issue of Wambora, we should note that our decision would be taken to the High Court for review. You cannot; I want to emphasize that you cannot. The Judiciary cannot control, manipulate or direct the substantive business of Parliament. Two things come to mind: First, even when the Judiciary can declare a certain Act of Parliament unconstitutional, it ends there. They cannot say that this is not constitutional and we should pass this one that is constitutional. Why? Because unlike the other organs of government like the Executive, where only the President is elected to do executive functions which are administrative, unlike the Judiciary, Parliament represents the people. It is the only organ that has been directly entrusted with the sovereignty of the people of Kenya. Above Parliament, there is no other organ except the people and God. So, we normally say that since Parliament represents the people above Parliament, only the blue sky exist where God resides and he has super human powers. Mr. Speaker, Sir, therefore we should be very firm and not subject our authority to anyone but only the people whom we should be subservient to. With those many remarks, I want to take this opportunity once again to thank all the contributors and once again say that in terms of priority of business just for the record and I take this from the contribution by Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki Karue, some of the things that RBC might want to consider as a priority would be to have an impeachment law or an impeachment act. We can have two: Impeachment (President and Deputy President) Bill and another one; Impeachment (Governors and Deputy Governors) Bill. I am willing to also be part of the solution so that going forward, we will not have the gaps that we have seen in the last episode of impeachment of the Governor of Embu who, as I have The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Hon. Senators, first, since this is a Committee that I Chair, I also want to thank you for returning the entire membership of the Committee and for all the reasons you have stated. Secondly, the Committee will definitely take into account some of the suggestions you have made as we move forward. So, the Committee will meet at 4.45 p.m. in the Committee Room, Ground Floor, County Hall.
Hon. Senators, since we have no other business on the Order Paper, the House, therefore stands adjourned until tomorrow Wednesday, 26th February, 2014 at 9.00 a.m. The Senate rose at 4.25 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.